Gorges trade rumour - What/Who do we get from Toronto?

[Toronthab]

HMMM Komi seemed to leap in a heart beat. And look where that got him.

Eggzaktlee.

[Jeff Price (no relation)]

You cannot get stronger by dumping Josh Gorges. Buffalo just got a hell of a lot better.

I can only hope that the reason for the salary dump is a major big name free agent signing we needed the cap room for...then this deal CAN make us better.

[Jeff Price (no relation)]

Beaulieu needs to play next season, bottom line. He will anchor the second PP and learn a lot playing with a guy like Markov. I also think that Tinordi should play a handful of games too. Gorges costs too much money ($4M/year) for what he brings to the table. And he's signed for 4 more years. Time to cut bait and replace him with a shot-blocking d-man for $1.5M.

Beaulieu is simply not that good. Beaulieu doesn't now, and never will, bring more to the table than Gorges. Gorges is a top-4 defensive d-man who'd play on the #1 penalty kill unit on EVERY TEAM IN THE NHL. There's nobody better at what he does.

Beaulieu will most likely be a career 25 point guy who is a bit soft in his own end.

Tinordi...now he has potential.

People forget what most great defensemen are supposed to do. here's a hint:

Putting up points ain't it.

[Colin]

Beaulieu has all the skills, and none of the hockey sense.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

I understand that Gorges should be a #5, not a #4.

My problem is that by subtracting Gorges we have not suddenly added a #4 d-man. All we've done is bring in Tom Gilbert, who seems like another #5 to me, and probably worse than Gorges.

So the main reason for moving Gorges was a determination to get rid of a questionable contract. That's great, but it doesn't make us better.

In the absence of further moves, no one should be cheering on this Gorges-for-Gilbert swap as far as I can see.

[sakiqc]

Like the fact he denied a trade to Toronto. Respect !

We also know what happened to Komi after going there.

[Toronthab]

I'm glad to see that a lot of posters on this site share my view that it is ridiculous to expect us to win while throwing big minutes at two raw rookies on the blueline. Sometimes it seems that everyone and his dog thinks Nathan Beaulieu is PK Subban Redux.

After sleeping on it, I find this Gorges business is bothering me. He is such a huge part of this team, and surely a big part of the terrific, committed-to-winning team culture we saw last season. He is also a crucial stabilizer in the defensive zone, and just subtracting him - or replacing him with a Dan Boyle - could see us running around in our own end to an even greater degree than was the case this season. Plus, his horrified reaction - including his AWESOME refusal to go to Toronto - bespeaks a guy who really does bleed red, white and blue. Clearly he is NOT a player for whom this is "just a business;" and that speaks to his character. It sucks to see him being crapped on by the organization, especially if it's mostly about dumping his salary (!). Talk about penny-pinching.

All that said, it's about the end result. If we come through this with a better blueline, then it's worth it. If we upgrade at FW while subtracting Gorges from the back end, then it's probably not.

Great post ChiCuke. We run into the terrible human reality of our finitude. Ideally.. the Rocket would still be skating with le Gros Bill, Plante backed up by Dryden, as Savard feeds the Flower, Gorges having blocked a murderous slapshot destined to give Jacques stitches.

We are talking unavoidable sacrifices and true losses that are to be borne by us all, if we are to have our national sport on a pro level. And we have to have it at the pro level. We really shouldn't finish school or Canadian Junior hockey and never play again. Some of us are called to move on in life, excelling in the first realm. And the guys in the second realm, the Bergeron's , like the surgeon who has to sacrifice a limb to save the body, draws blood from us all.. and it hurts.

Josh is just on the phone with TSN... "I've loved every moment..."

Just couldn't play for the Leafs!

God bless him.

[Colin]

Couldn't play for TO. Couldn't commit. Couldn't play against Mtl with the Leafs. I want a statue. Plaques. Retire his number. Brilliance. Utter and total brilliance. He's traded and he's still a team guy! Reminds me of Captain Kirk.

[hab29RETIRED]

Couldn't play for TO. Couldn't commit. Couldn't play against Mtl with the Leafs. I want a statue. Plaques. Retire his number. Brilliance. Utter and total brilliance. He's traded and he's still a team guy! Reminds me of Captain Kirk

…except captain kirk did play for the laffs.

[Toronthab]

you bring up some great points C.C. Let's not forget that Gorges and Price are best friends and Gally has been living at Gorges' place the last two seasons. Do you really wanna take the chance of pissing off your best player(Price) just to save a little money?

10 years ago we (the fans) were complaining that nobody wanted to play here. Now that we have a solid stay at home d-man who BLEEDS Red white and Blue, and were looking to trade him to the evil Leafs? WTF Bergevin? What are you thinking?

obviously, if the Leafs are offering JVR, then yeah, you gotta pull the trigger on the trade, but I seriously doubt the Leafs would offer us JVR for Gorges!!!

Good points HF.. didn't know. We lose a solid, solid guy to Buffalo.. probably so he can be closer to Montreal without being in Toronto.

He's gonna cry when he first steps on the ice in Montreal, and he will get the greatest ovation!

[Colin]

…except captain kirk did play for the laffs.

Just referring to his reaction at leaving. Heart and soul player and Kirk cried when he was dealt.

[Toronthab]

Couldn't play for TO. Couldn't commit. Couldn't play against Mtl with the Leafs. I want a statue. Plaques. Retire his number. Brilliance. Utter and total brilliance. He's traded and he's still a team guy! Reminds me of Captain Kirk.

HAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Amen Colin.. Amen.!!

[Habsfan]

Couldn't play for TO. Couldn't commit. Couldn't play against Mtl with the Leafs. I want a statue. Plaques. Retire his number. Brilliance. Utter and total brilliance. He's traded and he's still a team guy! Reminds me of Captain Kirk.

great post!!!

[Toronthab]

We should all make a point of going to the Sabres website and singing the praises of the great man they are getting from Montreal.

http://sabres.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=724804&navid=DL|BUF|home

Tell Josh how you feel.

https://twitter.com/jjgorges

[JGC21]

Beaulieu is simply not that good. Beaulieu doesn't now, and never will, bring more to the table than Gorges. Gorges is a top-4 defensive d-man who'd play on the #1 penalty kill unit on EVERY TEAM IN THE NHL. There's nobody better at what he does.Beaulieu will most likely be a career 25 point guy who is a bit soft in his own end.Tinordi...now he has potential.People forget what most great defensemen are supposed to do. here's a hint:Putting up points ain't it.

Gorges a top-4 d-man?! I don't see it. I think Beaulieu should be given every opportunity to succeed just like Galchenyuk has. Its time to play the kids and get them real NHL experience.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

"Top Four" is an old term.

Subban can play against top lines with top minutes.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

One subtle side-benefit to this deal is that it'll help Emelin, because it returns him to his natural side. An improved Emelin is potentially significant.

[Habinator33]

One subtle side-benefit to this deal is that it'll help Emelin, because it returns him to his natural side. An improved Emelin is potentially significant.

It also allowed us to bring back Weaver and allow at least one of our kids to play on their natural side as well. Also by the time those kids are officially ready for top 4 minutes maybe Gorges isn't worth that 2nd anymore.

[JoeLassister]

Hey, there's no team that wants to be a contender that can afford to train more than a single blueliner a year.

By all means, keep Tinordi up this year. But we can't get Tinordi, Pateryn and Beaulieu ready at the same time and expect to be anywhere near a playoff spot. It simply won't happen.

(Tinordi's the one of them most likely to make a difference, anyway. Beaulieu is never going to be more than a middling, J.J. Daigneault type of D-man. Tinordi could end up a bigger version of Lyle Odelein - minus the once-a-year end-to-end bobby-orr-style rush.)

Wrong.

Chicago played Seabrook 69 games at 20yo and Keith 81 games at 22yo in 2005-2006. Keith finished +/- of -11.

Doughty played a full season as a rookie, finished with a +/- of -17. Only dman above 30yo on this team was O'Donnell at 36yo.

McDonagh played a full season at 22yo, 2 years later, he's almost top 5 Dman in the league. Del Zotto was right there with him and was not doing THAT bad. (Must agree that he was just a wet dream in the end.)

Some people here just keep posting about how we won't be Contenders before 2-3 years while they propose to play everyone but the players who will eventually make us contenders in 2-3 years. I don't get how playing Gilbert and Weaver will make Beaulieu and Tinordi better.

And Pateryn. 1 month of Habsworld avatar that he will never play 50 games with the Habs.

[dlbalr]

I don't get how playing Gilbert and Weaver will make Beaulieu and Tinordi better.

It'll let them play on their natural side for starters. It's a challenge for any young d-man coming up to succeed right away but having 3 actual right hand d-men will enable Beaulieu/Tinordi to play the left side where they're more comfortable. It sounds like they're also dedicating the 3rd LD spot to one of the youngsters so at the very least, one is going to play every night.

[Jeff Price (no relation)]

Wrong.

Chicago played Seabrook 69 games at 20yo and Keith 81 games at 22yo in 2005-2006. Keith finished +/- of -11.

Doughty played a full season as a rookie, finished with a +/- of -17. Only dman above 30yo on this team was O'Donnell at 36yo.

McDonagh played a full season at 22yo, 2 years later, he's almost top 5 Dman in the league. Del Zotto was right there with him and was not doing THAT bad. (Must agree that he was just a wet dream in the end.)

Some people here just keep posting about how we won't be Contenders before 2-3 years while they propose to play everyone but the players who will eventually make us contenders in 2-3 years. I don't get how playing Gilbert and Weaver will make Beaulieu and Tinordi better.

And Pateryn. 1 month of Habsworld avatar that he will never play 50 games with the Habs.

(1) Comparing Beaulieu, Tinordi, or Pateryn to Seabrook, Keith, or Doughty is like comparing Sidney Crosby to Michael Bournival. Yes, they're both skilled forwards. That's where the similarities end. These three guys are not top prospects. Tinordi's the only one of the three of them that I'm comfortable guaranteeing will even be in the NHL 5 years from now.

(2) We were a serious contender in 2014. Now is not the time to "rebuild" and look to the future. Instead, we build on the success we just had and get cup 25. We could have done it with the players we had last year, except for losing Price to injury.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

Seabrook and Keith were also playing with Cam Barker. It was a Blueline trying to push three youngsters into the league

[hab29RETIRED]

Not sure about that. Didn't someone write that MT said Subban me ill probably play with Golbert?

One subtle side-benefit to this deal is that it'll help Emelin, because it returns him to his natural side. An improved Emelin is potentially significant.

[JoeLassister]

(1) Comparing Beaulieu, Tinordi, or Pateryn to Seabrook, Keith, or Doughty is like comparing Sidney Crosby to Michael Bournival. Yes, they're both skilled forwards. That's where the similarities end. These three guys are not top prospects. Tinordi's the only one of the three of them that I'm comfortable guaranteeing will even be in the NHL 5 years from now.

(2) We were a serious contender in 2014. Now is not the time to "rebuild" and look to the future. Instead, we build on the success we just had and get cup 25. We could have done it with the players we had last year, except for losing Price to injury.

I'm comparing what the Hawks and the Kings had as future NHL dmen at the time with the ones we have now. I wish I could compare them with better dmen, but we never sucked that much to get one...

I'm with you with (2). All we needed was a little push to get better, especially with a top line Winger. But I just don't see how we got better today or how we will get better if we play Gilbert and Weaver instead of trying to bring our future dmen to their ceilings as soon as possible. Honestly, I never really liked Gilbert and I doubt he will become my favorite players just by wearing my favorite team's jersey.

Gilbert and Weaver have no future with this team, their ceilings have been reached long time ago. Our best shot at getting better without ing this team up once again was to bring Galchenyuk, Tinordi, Eller, Gallagher and Beaulieu close to their ceilings AND pay them cheap while Subban-Pax-Plek-Price-Markov were hot.

What I wanted was a reliable Beaulieu AND Markov on the same squad. Now, it looks like Markov will be retired when Beaulieu will reach top 4 minutes and potential.

[dlbalr]

So TSN is reporting that the deal with Toronto was for Franson. What's better:

a) Gorges for Franson

b) Gorges for 2nd, sign Gilbert with the savings

Unless the plan was to flip Franson for something else, I have to think option b was much more ideal, they still get a decent replacement, a bit of cap space (about the same as they would have had with Franson), and a pick.