dlbalr Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 Tinordi had a rough first year too. My gut says this guy is a bust and just threw away a free university education, but time will tell. Even if he does bust, he'll still be able to get his education. He's guaranteed nearly $490,000 from the Habs on this contract (in terms of his signing bonus and AHL salary), even if he never plays a single NHL game. With that money, he could pay for a university education. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovett's Magnatones Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 Even if he does bust, he'll still be able to get his education. He's guaranteed nearly $490,000 from the Habs on this contract (in terms of his signing bonus and AHL salary), even if he never plays a single NHL game. With that money, he could pay for a university education. Can't he get two free years for playing this year and next year in Jrs? I don't know if he's so bad he won't at least stick in the AHL fives years from now. I saw Olivier For tier score a hat trick in an ECHL game in Orlando two years ago. If that guy has a career... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 Can't he get two free years for playing this year and next year in Jrs? I don't know if he's so bad he won't at least stick in the AHL fives years from now. I saw Olivier For tier score a hat trick in an ECHL game in Orlando two years ago. If that guy has a career... You have to use the CHL education package fairly quickly (12-18 months, somewhere in there). If McCarron plays out his ELC (and he will), the ability to use that package will be gone. As for Fortier, he didn't catch on after the Habs let him go before last year. It looks as if he may have retired. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovett's Magnatones Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 You have to use the CHL education package fairly quickly (12-18 months, somewhere in there). If McCarron plays out his ELC (and he will), the ability to use that package will be gone. As for Fortier, he didn't catch on after the Habs let him go before last year. It looks as if he may have retired. That's a shame, I thought he had a real future with the Solar Bears. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 Tinordi had a rough first year too. My gut says this guy is a bust and just threw away a free university education, but time will tell. From Mark Edwards of Hockeyprospect.com "Tinordi's slow start was bullet speed compared to McCarron's this season. Tinordi had more talent as well. I have attended many games in London, including a couple with Habs brass beside me in the scouts box. Martin Lapointe is a nice guy by the way... Mccarron is a very BIG project. He has played himself into very little ice time. I have heard a few scouts attending games (other teams) joke that whatever line he is on, is line 4 that game. Sadly I agree. Quite a few NHL scouts know that I was born and raised in Montreal. A few also knew I was worried the Habs would pick McCarron. I got a few txts poking some fun after the selection. FWIW, the Knights tell me he's a good kid. He has played slightly better in my last couple of viewings but it's going to be a long road if ever IMO. In most cases he struggles to keep up to the play. I see no toughness. I can't recall his last hit of any kind. He should be destroying players. He struggles to "get there" fast enough to make hits but even when he does, it's a pretty soft touch. When he fights he looks like its the last thing he wants to do. The last two fights of his I saw, he tackled the guy before it could get rolling. I saw a tweet from a London media guy that summed it up, "MaCarron's fights last an average of 3 seconds" He loses puck battles constantly and ends up on his ass far too often IMO. On the bright side, his shot is hard." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sim.on Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 Pretty scathing review. There must be some reason they used a 1st on him, Timmins isnt stupid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfredoh2009 Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 wow, that sound really alarming on McCaron's chances. did the CH owe a favour to a scout or an agent? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoRP Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 At his age, maybe he doesn't have the drive to work as hard as he should to improve what he's lacking. If it's toughness and hockey sense, well, he can't really learn that. Hoping he proves people wrong this year, another year getting some tips on grit and game from the Hunter's, after all I've read it doesn't look good, but, ya never know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovett's Magnatones Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 From Mark Edwards of Hockeyprospect.com "Tinordi's slow start was bullet speed compared to McCarron's this season. Tinordi had more talent as well. I have attended many games in London, including a couple with Habs brass beside me in the scouts box. Martin Lapointe is a nice guy by the way... Mccarron is a very BIG project. He has played himself into very little ice time. I have heard a few scouts attending games (other teams) joke that whatever line he is on, is line 4 that game. Sadly I agree. Quite a few NHL scouts know that I was born and raised in Montreal. A few also knew I was worried the Habs would pick McCarron. I got a few txts poking some fun after the selection. FWIW, the Knights tell me he's a good kid. He has played slightly better in my last couple of viewings but it's going to be a long road if ever IMO. In most cases he struggles to keep up to the play. I see no toughness. I can't recall his last hit of any kind. He should be destroying players. He struggles to "get there" fast enough to make hits but even when he does, it's a pretty soft touch. When he fights he looks like its the last thing he wants to do. The last two fights of his I saw, he tackled the guy before it could get rolling. I saw a tweet from a London media guy that summed it up, "MaCarron's fights last an average of 3 seconds" He loses puck battles constantly and ends up on his ass far too often IMO. On the bright side, his shot is hard." Wow, what a d*ckhead. These kids are teenagers. You have to love writers who name names every three sentences to gain credibility. (Justin Bourne) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stogey24 Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 My buddy plays Jr.B and goes for skates with the Knights when given the chance. He was saying Mccarron might be the nicest most level headed guys out there. I know that doesn't mean a lot from a hockey stand point, but the kid has a ton of pressure on him to become this bonafide goal scorer, when really he was only drafted early for his size, not his skill. I'm from London and I've watched Mccarron play a handful of times, I honestly don't think he's going to find a home in the fighting department. Usually guys are born with that gritty fighting style, he doesn't throw that hard straight punch like Tinordi for example. This year is a huge year for Mccarron to prove critics wrong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 I keep thinking the pick was more a Molson/Bergevin 'Anti-Smurf' PR decision and Timmins must of just went along with it? No way he was top 30 on Timmins, or any scouts list. So we can partially thank media and fan outcry for this beauty. For those what keep ranting about hobbit-smurfs, here you go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovett's Magnatones Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 I keep thinking the pick was more a Molson/Bergevin 'Anti-Smurf' PR decision and Timmins must of just went along with it? No way he was top 30 on Timmins, or any scouts list. So we can partially thank media and fan outcry for this beauty. For those what keep ranting about hobbit-smurfs, here you go. I think all of the high picks except De La Rose that year have had issues. McCarron can't score, Fucale had an off year, and Lehkonen and Reway, imo are too small. I say this because the only news I hear about them is that they are constantly injured. Is Hudson out for the year yet? I'm excited to see De La Rose in some preseason games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 Fucale had off-year? Holy crap, he was darn solid but for last couple games. Wasn't his fault world junior team didn't win. Too small eh, frickin Hobbits are good for nothing, however Lehkonen or Reway both didn't look too shabby at World juniors. And look forward to seeing them again this year. But, don't worry we can try again for McCarron II in 2015. If they pick 10 of em, maybe will strike gold sooner or later? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovett's Magnatones Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 Fucale had off-year? Holy crap, he was darn solid but for last couple games. Wasn't his fault world junior team didn't win. Too small eh, frickin Hobbits are good for nothing, however Lehkonen or Reway both didn't look too shabby at World juniors. And look forward to seeing them again this year. But, don't worry we can try again for McCarron II in 2015. If they pick 10 of em, maybe will strike gold sooner or later? We can trade Beaulieu for Tyler Biggs today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 I keep thinking the pick was more a Molson/Bergevin 'Anti-Smurf' PR decision and Timmins must of just went along with it? No way he was top 30 on Timmins, or any scouts list. So we can partially thank media and fan outcry for this beauty. For those what keep ranting about hobbit-smurfs, here you go. He was on Philadelphia's list for sure in the Top 25 as it was shown on a draft special. I believe a scout in Carolina also had him Top 20. How I've heard it (and how it 100% looks) is that who was selected with our first three picks was completely interchangeable and based on who Montreal felt would be available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 100% agree and that's what I said when he was drafted. Other than being a USA player, he doesn't fit the Timmind profile. Lacks skill and speed. I keep thinking the pick was more a Molson/Bergevin 'Anti-Smurf' PR decision and Timmins must of just went along with it? No way he was top 30 on Timmins, or any scouts list. So we can partially thank media and fan outcry for this beauty. For those what keep ranting about hobbit-smurfs, here you go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 Philly and Carolina aren't exactly franchises I'd want to follow. It's been a while since either have drafted well, outside of having a top 10 pick. He was on Philadelphia's list for sure in the Top 25 as it was shown on a draft special. I believe a scout in Carolina also had him Top 20. How I've heard it (and how it 100% looks) is that who was selected with our first three picks was completely interchangeable and based on who Montreal felt would be available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 Commandant has in the past offered pretty hard stats indicating that players of McCarron's profile hardly ever make the NHL. Add that to the dismal performance up to this point, and you have to think the future looks pretty bleak. What's really too bad is that the "first-rounder" tag is probably making things worse. A number of observers pointed out that picks in the 30-50 range in that draft year were unusually amorphous - that ranking them was harder than usual. The Habs could just as easily have picked McCarron with their second or third pick; they probably picked him first because they were confident De LaRose and Fucale would still be available, and were determined to take a flyer on this hulk. Had the draft order been different, there wouldn't be the same spotlight and pressure on this kid, and he could just pursue his career to the best of his abilities without this shadow over him. I remain hopeful that he can become a good bottom-6er for us, but optimism is probably inappropriate at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovett's Magnatones Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 You know something is wrong when TSN had his draft attributes at 2/5. Everyone else has at least threes and mostly fours through the first three rounds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 Philly and Carolina aren't exactly franchises I'd want to follow. It's been a while since either have drafted well, outside of having a top 10 pick. That's certainly moving the goalposts from "no way he was on any" to "no way he was on any I like". Simply put, he was a player the Habs felt they wouldn't be able to get by the second round. They felt they could get De La Rose and Fucale. They did. There's no denying his performances have at times left a lot to be desired and he has serious consistency issues. I've seen him be dominant on the ice and take to the corners better than any player on either team. I've seen him play in front of the net better than anyone on the Habs today. I've also watched him be completely invisible and play like Chad Kilger on a bad night. It's up to himself and the team in London to develop his consistency. Otherwise he will be our Hugh Jessiman. But if he develops his high play to becoming his normal play, I have no doubts in him becoming "against the norm" and proving that you just can't take past individuals and predict what a present individual will do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 Hey, I hope he pans out better than a lot of the draft picks during the Houle years, i just hate rolling the dice on a first round pick. In the first round, you should be looking for joe Thornton potential talent, not Shawn Thornton potential brawn. That's certainly moving the goalposts from "no way he was on any" to "no way he was on any I like". Simply put, he was a player the Habs felt they wouldn't be able to get by the second round. They felt they could get De La Rose and Fucale. They did. There's no denying his performances have at times left a lot to be desired and he has serious consistency issues. I've seen him be dominant on the ice and take to the corners better than any player on either team. I've seen him play in front of the net better than anyone on the Habs today. I've also watched him be completely invisible and play like Chad Kilger on a bad night. It's up to himself and the team in London to develop his consistency. Otherwise he will be our Hugh Jessiman. But if he develops his high play to becoming his normal play, I have no doubts in him becoming "against the norm" and proving that you just can't take past individuals and predict what a present individual will do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 Hey, I hope he pans out better than a lot of the draft picks during the Houle years, i just hate rolling the dice on a first round pick. In the first round, you should be looking for joe Thornton potential talent, not Shawn Thornton potential brawn. Yeah, but he was drafted #25 and we got the other two players we wanted in any case. Had there been a clear-cut Joe Thornton available, I'm sure they'd have picked him instead. I think people need to be less obsessed over the order in which a given player was drafted, and look more at a team's overall body of work in terms of drafting and development. (Of course, it's too soon to evaluate Zoot Suit on this front; but it must be said that the Timmins era has been pretty good from a purely "drafting" point of view). It is true, however, that the Habs have a dismal history of drafting "for size." Remember all those years when Serge Savard was basically drafting "Pat Burns" players - wasting first-round picks on tough grinding types like Lindsay Vallis? Oy vey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 He was on Philadelphia's list for sure in the Top 25 as it was shown on a draft special. I believe a scout in Carolina also had him Top 20. How I've heard it (and how it 100% looks) is that who was selected with our first three picks was completely interchangeable and based on who Montreal felt would be available. And 6'5" 235lb instantly makes most GMs/Scout (and vast majority of HabFans) to start drooling. Philly has won a cup when? Carolina is also a rockin franchise. but yes you are correct and I should say no smart scout/GM would rank him in top 30...top 60 maybe; but most smartish people had him late 2nd/early 3rd round. Who knows maybe he will get 35-40 goals this year and prove Habs mgmt correct? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbhatt Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 Maybe all he needs it to get faster/stronger, and use the confidence from that to find his stride as a player. Lord knows going to APC and working with Jon Chaimberg did wonders for Benoit Pouliot (remember what a creampuff he used to be? Looked like a very different player in our series vs. Rangers) and Jakub Voracek. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 Here's a great and useless bit of information: 25th overall pick 2013: Mike McCarron (forward, 0 games) 2012: Jordan Schmaltz (defenceman, 0 games) 2011: Stuart Percy (defenceman, 0 games) 2010: Quinton Howden (forward, 34 games, 6 points) 2009: Jordan Caron (forward, 123 games, 28 points) 2008: Greg Nemiez (forward, 15 games, 1 point) 2007: Patrick White (forward, 0 games) 2006: Patrik Berglund (forward, 436 games, 220 points) 2005: Andrew Cogliano (forward, 540 games, 237 points) 2004: Rob Shremp (forward, 114 games, 54 points) 2003: Anthony Stewart (forward, 262 games, 71 points) 2002: Cam Ward (goalie, 461 games, 221 wins, Conn Smythe, All-Star) 2001: Alexander Perezogin (forward, 128 games, 34 points) 2000: Steve Ott (forward, 696 games, 267 points) 1999: Mikhail Kuleshov (forward, 3 games, 0 points) 1998: Jiri Fischer (defenceman, 305 games, 60 points) 1997: Brenden Morrow (forward, 921 games, 567 points) 1996: Peter Ratchuk (defenceman, 32 games, 2 points) 1995: Marc Denis (goalie, 349 games, 112 wins) 1994: Vadim Sharifijanov (forward, 92 games, 37 points) 1993: Kevyn Adams (forward, 540 games, 136 points) 20 years of the 25th overall pick has produced Cam Ward, Brenden Morrow, Steve Ott, Patrik Berglund, Andrew Cogliano, Marc Denis, Jiri Fischer and... I'm down to Alex Perezogin? It isn't a draft position with a good history. The greatest 25th overall pick of all time? Mark Howe. Followed by... Cam Ward. Seriously. It isn't science, but when you look at the entire history of the 25th overall pick? Luck was never on Mike McCarron's side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.