GL10 Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 They did not have a great future. All those players - except Koivu, Pleks, and Markov - sucked as core pieces. And time proved that. Price became a great goalie but was nowhere near being one at that point. The Kostitsyns became the Kostitsyns. Higgins spent three years as a marginal player before recovering into a respectable 3rd liner. Komisarek was revealed to be a POS. Most importantly, Kovalev was never head from again as an elite player. Gainey did not screw the 2008 team up, its own mediocrity screwed it up. The three key players of the current team, Price, Patches, and PK, are all better than anything we had in 2008. By far. Unlike those guys, these are legitimate stars; in Price and PK's case, superstars. This team has a Norris winner, Hart winner, and one of the top goal-scorers in all of hockey. That pretty much blows 2008 out of the frigging water. The 'mirage' argument overlooks that this is the third season in a row that this core finished near the top of the Conference. That's not a mirage; it's a track record of success from a still-young core. As for our prospect pool, that has little bearing on how the ACTUAL NHL TEAM is doing. Prospects don't define a good team; the players on the team do. We'll disagree then. We had a real top 9 then. We don't have a top 6 now.(DD,Weise,and/or Kassian?) BG only deadline move that year was trading our #1 goalie, Huet, for a 2 nd rder and riding a rookie goalie . As for the last 3 "successful"seasons . Division titles and boring hockey doesn't interest me. Anything short of conf final is not a success. Not in Montreal anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GL10 Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Vermette wasn't a free agent last offseason. He just played out the last season of a five year deal in 2014-15. And apparently they did try to sign him this month.Vermette as a UFA ,only if DD got moved. Having both doesn't do much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nihilz Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 LOUD NOISES! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 It'd be nice if as a team we stop being interested in every piece of trash on the free agent market just because we want to see something new on the team. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Well, no AK46 this year anyways, someone in KHL offered him a contract. SO we are all agreed...Bryan Bickell it will be! Only $4m for a 25point guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 We'll disagree then. We had a real top 9 then. We don't have a top 6 now.(DD,Weise,and/or Kassian?) BG only deadline move that year was trading our #1 goalie, Huet, for a 2 nd rder and riding a rookie goalie . As for the last 3 "successful"seasons . Division titles and boring hockey doesn't interest me. Anything short of conf final is not a success. Not in Montreal anyway Everyone in the NHL knew the Habs were a mirage in 07-08. I remember the chuckles when we won the conference, with people saying the Penguins intentionally lost their last game to give it to Montreal. The playoffs started, our PP opportunities dropped and we had a hell of a time beating a supposedly weaker Boston Bruins. Then the Philadelphia Flyers exposed the Habs completely. Montreal had the best powerplay and the most PP opportunites. Of course they were exciting. Every PP felt like a chance to score. Also add their "Cardiac Kids" reputation back then of never being able to hold onto leads. So exciting! What's funny is "anything sort of conf final is not a success" and in 07-08 we didn't make the conf final. We did in 13-14 (which you used successful season in quotations) and we did in 09-10 with a combination of stifling defence and Cammalleri/Gionta scoring a ton of goals. To be fair, I know a lot of fans like you. It doesn't matter how good the team actually is as long as they are not "boring", and to be honest I don't blame you for feeling that way. It's not entertainment if it bores you. But entertainment doesn't equal good hockey. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Just win baby! How many all-star forwards did Habs have (at all-star game)? Zero. Pretty hard to play run & gun when got no finishers. Gotta play hand you are dealt and under new management are doing quite well, 125-64-23. 1993-2012 Bergevin cant do anything about those teams failures. No matter how impatient fans are for a cup winner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 I see no rational argument for denying that this team is the best Habs team since about 1994 (1996 at the latest). Hell, PK is the greatest position player the Habs have had since Guy Lafleur, and Pacioretty the best goal scorer since Richer (and unlike Richer, he is actually a consistent, reliable performer and great in all three zones). Now, if you want to argue that the 2008 team was more entertaining, that's legit. The team had little structure and basically opened the door and rolled. This 'boring hockey' thing is a red herring in my book. Everyone and his dog knows that defence wins championships. The most exciting team in hockey is the Dallas Stars. The Dallas Stars, not coincidentally, suck eggs. Pick your poison. Also, I've been around long enough to notice that this complaint tends to resurface whenever the Habs actually become contenders: 'they're boring.' The Pat Burns years heard this complaint endlessly, yet that team was absolutely a top team in the NHL. I think a goodly chunk of fans aren't happy unless they have something to complain about - c.f. the fact that this board just went through its most negative and contentious year ever, at the very same time as the Habs sailed through a basically problem-free, highly successful season. I also do not believe for one single instant that 99% of those complaining about the Habs being 'boring' would actually be happy if the Habs finished out of the playoffs while playing hugely entertaining run and gun. hockey No; then they'd be howling for MT and MB's heads on a scalp. Fortunately, Bergevin knows that, and will therefore continue to try to build a winning team while ignoring these kinds of complaints. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illWill Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 This 'boring hockey' thing is a red herring in my book. Everyone and his dog knows that defence wins championships. The most exciting team in hockey is the Dallas Stars. The Dallas Stars, not coincidentally, suck eggs. Pick your poison. Also, I've been around long enough to notice that this complaint tends to resurface whenever the Habs actually become contenders: 'they're boring.' The Pat Burns years heard this complaint endlessly, yet that team was absolutely a top team in the NHL. I think a goodly chunk of fans aren't happy unless they have something to complain about - c.f. the fact that this board just went through its most negative and contentious year ever, at the very same time as the Habs sailed through a basically problem-free, highly successful season. I also do not believe for one single instant that 99% of those complaining about the Habs being 'boring' would actually be happy if the Habs finished out of the playoffs while playing hugely entertaining run and gun. hockey No; then they'd be howling for MT and MB's heads on a scalp. Fortunately, Bergevin knows that, and will therefore continue to try to build a winning team while ignoring these kinds of complaints. There's no secret as to what this team's strengths are, defense and goaltending. And they are the best at that. Currently there is more money tied up in the 7 defensemen than the 11 forwards signed. That is the philosophy of the team all the way up and down the organization at this point. It might not be the most exciting brand of hockey, but it is producing effective results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 There's no secret as to what this team's strengths are, defense and goaltending. And they are the best at that. Currently there is more money tied up in the 7 defensemen than the 11 forwards signed. That is the philosophy of the team all the way up and down the organization at this point. It might not be the most exciting brand of hockey, but it is producing effective results. The complaints on our scoring last season are interesting. I do feel we didn't score enough but in relation to the rest of the league, we were just flawed like everyone else. Our PP was 16.5%, which was an ugly 23rd. But it's only 2.8% worse than Top 10 PP's like New Jersey and Pittsburgh (19.3%). Was Chicago really holding a huge advantage with their 0.02% superior PP? Anaheim, Nashville and Minnesota all had weaker PP% in the season. Our PP did stink incredibly in the playoffs, Then the GPG at 2.61 (20th). Should we have scored more goals? Yes. Are we significantly worse than other contenders? Look at the EC and WC finalists: Tampa Bay: 3.16 New York: 3.02 Anaheim: 2.78 Chicago: 2.68 Chicago only scored 0.07 Goals Per Game more than us. It should be pointed out that in GAPG, Montreal was #1 followed by Chicago and New York with Tampa Bay at #12 and Anaheim at #20. We were top five in the league for five on five F/A ratio, which is exactly where contenders want to be (Only non-playoff team with a high 5 on 5 ratio was the LA Kings. Only playoff team outside of the Top 16 for 5 on 5 in the regular season? Vancouver). The only team to completely flip their numbers in the playoffs were the Anaheim Ducks. Habs scored less but defended roughly the same and still maintained a strong on 5 on 5 ratio (#2 despite second round elimination). TL:DR I think this team needs to score about 20 more goals than last year and if we stay relatively healthy we will. We don't need to try out of a Semin. I trust in the youth of this team getting better. PP doesn't decide great teams but our PP was a detriment that needs to be fixed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GL10 Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Just win baby! How many all-star forwards did Habs have (at all-star game)? Zero. Pretty hard to play run & gun when got no finishers. Gotta play hand you are dealt and under new management are doing quite well, 125-64-23. 1993-2012 Bergevin cant do anything about those teams failures. No matter how impatient fans are for a cup winner. 23 years isn't impatient, lol. Max is all-star calibre.MB has nothing,zero,Nada to do with this core. AG is his only offensive contribution,and was a no brainer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GL10 Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 I see no rational argument for denying that this team is the best Habs team since about 1994 (1996 at the latest). Hell, PK is the greatest position player the Habs have had since Guy Lafleur, and Pacioretty the best goal scorer since Richer (and unlike Richer, he is actually a consistent, reliable performer and great in all three zones). Now, if you want to argue that the 2008 team was more entertaining, that's legit. The team had little structure and basically opened the door and rolled. This 'boring hockey' thing is a red herring in my book. Everyone and his dog knows that defence wins championships. The most exciting team in hockey is the Dallas Stars. The Dallas Stars, not coincidentally, suck eggs. Pick your poison. Also, I've been around long enough to notice that this complaint tends to resurface whenever the Habs actually become contenders: 'they're boring.' The Pat Burns years heard this complaint endlessly, yet that team was absolutely a top team in the NHL. I think a goodly chunk of fans aren't happy unless they have something to complain about - c.f. the fact that this board just went through its most negative and contentious year ever, at the very same time as the Habs sailed through a basically problem-free, highly successful season. I also do not believe for one single instant that 99% of those complaining about the Habs being 'boring' would actually be happy if the Habs finished out of the playoffs while playing hugely entertaining run and gun. hockey No; then they'd be howling for MT and MB's heads on a scalp. Fortunately, Bergevin knows that, and will therefore continue to try to build a winning team while ignoring these kinds of complaints. wtf happy if they missed playoffs?.Seriously? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GL10 Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Everyone in the NHL knew the Habs were a mirage in 07-08. I remember the chuckles when we won the conference, with people saying the Penguins intentionally lost their last game to give it to Montreal. The playoffs started, our PP opportunities dropped and we had a hell of a time beating a supposedly weaker Boston Bruins. Then the Philadelphia Flyers exposed the Habs completely. Montreal had the best powerplay and the most PP opportunites. Of course they were exciting. Every PP felt like a chance to score. Also add their "Cardiac Kids" reputation back then of never being able to hold onto leads. So exciting! What's funny is "anything sort of conf final is not a success" and in 07-08 we didn't make the conf final. We did in 13-14 (which you used successful season in quotations) and we did in 09-10 with a combination of stifling defence and Cammalleri/Gionta scoring a ton of goals. To be fair, I know a lot of fans like you. It doesn't matter how good the team actually is as long as they are not "boring", and to be honest I don't blame you for feeling that way. It's not entertainment if it bores you. But entertainment doesn't equal good hockey. Everyone saw Habs finish first. I didn't read about any suspension or Federal investigation about Pens throwing a game.Revisionist history to fit your argument? Bruins pounded us,and Philly pounded us because of the yearly softness issue. Why do you think BGL was signed. Why did we get to eliminated by Bost or Philly from 08-13. Size and toughness which we lackedOttawa,Chicago,Tampa,Dallas, Isles,Caps Winnepeg are pretty entertaining. You only mentioned the one team of those that didn't make playoffs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 wtf happy if they missed playoffs?.Seriously? You misread me - but then again I smuggled in an inference that wasn't necessarily your own. I've heard fans over the years say that they'd rather watch exciting hockey even if it meant less team success. And that's the sentiment I was responding to, because I think these fans are absolutely full of crap. Like I said, if the Habs played run and gun and missed the dance, those same exact fans would be burning down the Bell Centre in a rage. The ability of fans to look gift horses in the mouth never ceases to amaze me. Hart Trophy winner, Norris winner, and top-10 goal-scorer. Team finishes 4th overall, the third year in a row we're in the top 10 overall and the second consecutive year we go at least two rounds in the playoffs - all with a core that is only now coming into its prime. So what do we hear? Aw, the team plays a boring style. Aw, the team is a mirage. Aw, Bergevin hasn't 'put his stamp' on the team. The sensible response, it seems to me, is to be happy we have the best Habs teams in decades - and to be keenly interested in whether we can make he extra push to the inner circle of contenders, and if so, how. Instead we whine about a team that 90% of cities in the league would give their eye-teeth to have. Makes no sense to me. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GL10 Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 You misread me - but then again I smuggled in an inference that wasn't necessarily your own. I've heard fans over the years say that they'd rather watch exciting hockey even if it meant less team success. And that's the sentiment I was responding to, because I think these fans are absolutely full of crap. Like I said, if the Habs played run and gun and missed the dance, those same exact fans would be burning down the Bell Centre in a rage. The ability of fans to look gift horses in the mouth never ceases to amaze me. Hart Trophy winner, Norris winner, and top-10 goal-scorer. Team finishes 4th overall, the third year in a row we're in the top 10 overall and the second consecutive year we go at least two rounds in the playoffs - all with a core that is only now coming into its prime. So what do we hear? Aw, the team plays a boring style. Aw, the team is a mirage. Aw, Bergevin hasn't 'put his stamp' on the team. The sensible response, it seems to me, is to be happy we have the best Habs teams in decades - and to be keenly interested in whether we can make he extra push to the inner circle of contenders, and if so, how. Instead we whine about a team that 90% of cities in the league would give their eye-teeth to have. Makes no sense to me. I think that the level of satisfaction could definitely be broken down by age. Younger fans (30/ under) are much happier than 40+, based on what is a success. Both sides have the right and good reasons for their opinions. And the 40+ do understand about cap, # of teams etc. And there are exceptions. As for entertaining: its an NHL thing,we will never see the run and gun,intense hockey of the 80's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted July 14, 2015 Author Share Posted July 14, 2015 How do you celebrate signing a seven year, $52.5 million extension? By drunk driving your pickup truck into the side of a Tim Hortons at 4 AM and fleeing the scene on foot. Way to go Ryan O'Reilly... http://www.am980.ca/2015/07/13/buffalo-sabres-centre-ryan-oreilly-charged-with-impaired-driving/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 How do you celebrate signing a seven year, $52.5 million extension? By drunk driving your pickup truck into the side of a Tim Hortons at 4 AM and fleeing the scene on foot. Way to go Ryan O'Reilly... http://www.am980.ca/2015/07/13/buffalo-sabres-centre-ryan-oreilly-charged-with-impaired-driving/ What a loser. He couldn't afford a limousine? I think the team actually provides one for free. How about a cab? Bet you a lot guys would drive him home for an autograph. I never saw the big deal about him, and now we know there isn't one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illWill Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 How do you celebrate signing a seven year, $52.5 million extension? By drunk driving your pickup truck into the side of a Tim Hortons at 4 AM and fleeing the scene on foot. Way to go Ryan O'Reilly... http://www.am980.ca/2015/07/13/buffalo-sabres-centre-ryan-oreilly-charged-with-impaired-driving/ That is amazing. What a way to start off with a new team Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 I didn't want him on the Habs just for the sense of entitlement that was evident from his contract negotiations. The fact he thinks he is worth more money than Duschane is ridiculous. What a loser. He couldn't afford a limousine? I think the team actually provides one for free. How about a cab? Bet you a lot guys would drive him home for an autograph. I never saw the big deal about him, and now we know there isn't one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stogey24 Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 How do you celebrate signing a seven year, $52.5 million extension? By drunk driving your pickup truck into the side of a Tim Hortons at 4 AM and fleeing the scene on foot. Way to go Ryan O'Reilly... http://www.am980.ca/2015/07/13/buffalo-sabres-centre-ryan-oreilly-charged-with-impaired-driving/ What a clown! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 Yup, seems a very very poor decision by him. All my drunk driving involves no car keys and is only on the fairways (or nearby hazard bit too often). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 I didn't want him on the Habs just for the sense of entitlement that was evident from his contract negotiations. The fact he thinks he is worth more money than Duschane is ridiculous. It's not about how much money he thinks he's worth, it's about how much someone is willing to pay him. I doubt the NHL is going to be as severe with him for this as they should be. He'll get community service and the Sabres will just be quiet about him being on the team until he puts up a 50 point season and then all sins forgiven. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 He is just lucky no one else was injured, then it would be a legal shitstorm and likely jail time eh? But will be curious to see how NHL Owners punish him (Would CBA play any part in this mess, it does for max fines allowed?). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalhabs Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 Hope they throw the book at him. Its one thing if he had a couple of beers and wasnt that much above the limit. To run his car into a restaurant he has to be wasted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kuternoga Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 So, Sabres can terminate his contract? I'm glad we didn't acquire him. Swagger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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