Trizzak Posted March 18, 2016 Share Posted March 18, 2016 As the title asks, what was the last 'Change of Scenery' trade that worked for Montreal? The kind of trade where both teams trade a "problem" player in hopes that a new team inspires a new player. I can't remember the last time Montreal ended up getting a player that bettered himself in Montreal. And yes, this thread was inspired by Smith-Pelly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted March 18, 2016 Share Posted March 18, 2016 As the title asks, what was the last 'Change of Scenery' trade that worked for Montreal? The kind of trade where both teams trade a "problem" player in hopes that a new team inspires a new player. I can't remember the last time Montreal ended up getting a player that bettered himself in Montreal. And yes, this thread was inspired by Smith-Pelly. Well when we got Kovalev from the Rags he did pretty well for us but the guys going the other way not so much since I don't think either of them played in the nhl again. So I don't know if we can call that a change of scenery trade more like a fleecing, Josef Balej and Bruce Garnham went the other way. It was a damn fine trade for us though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huzer Posted March 18, 2016 Share Posted March 18, 2016 Latendresse - Pouliot? Benny Poo was pretty decent when he first arrived. Weise - Diaz was definitely a change of scenery from Vancouver's perspective. I'd say that worked out well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoRP Posted March 18, 2016 Share Posted March 18, 2016 Damphousse deal was a good change of scenery for us, and whatever deal brought Brian Bellows... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted March 18, 2016 Share Posted March 18, 2016 Latendresse - Pouliot? Benny Poo was pretty decent when he first arrived. Weise - Diaz was definitely a change of scenery from Vancouver's perspective. I'd say that worked out well. Weise, yes. Good call, that was a great trade. Bellows was the return for Russ Courtnall, who wanted to be out west. So we sent him to Minnesota Also a good trade. If DSP becomes a legit top 6 player, I will succumb to despair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalhabs Posted March 18, 2016 Share Posted March 18, 2016 Weise, yes. Good call, that was a great trade. Bellows was the return for Russ Courtnall, who wanted to be out west. So we sent him to Minnesota Also a good trade. If DSP becomes a legit top 6 player, I will succumb to despair. Agreed! If DSP continues like this I want MT's and MB's asses bbqued in mollases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted March 18, 2016 Share Posted March 18, 2016 Agreed! If DSP continues like this I want MT's and MB's asses bbqued in mollases. I'd really have to blame MT more than MB. Grizzly Adams provided Therrien with the player. Therrien did less than nothing with him, so The Grizz flips him to NJ for another asset. That's what any GM would do, since no GM is going to fire his coach on the basis of a theory that Devante Smith-Pelly could be contributing more than he is. If Therrien wasted a top-6 FW on a team that has a dire, structural need for top-6 FWs, then he should be run out of town on a rail. Grizzly Adams shouldn't be fired, but he should be put on notice that pissing away assets is unacceptable. Because I never saw the SLIGHTEST sign that DSP is, in fact, a legit top-6 FW, I'm not succumbing to despair just yet. But the scenario does make me want to puke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted March 18, 2016 Share Posted March 18, 2016 I really was impressed with DSP first got here, but these numbers are pretty scary. If he turns into a top 6 fw. Then yes the focus has to be on Le Genius. Get the tar and feathers ready. Oh yeah and the rail as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neech Posted March 18, 2016 Share Posted March 18, 2016 Weise is the obvious answer that springs to mind for this thread. I wouldn't worry about DSP turning into a scorer. He does seem to be an actual NHLer, which Matteau doesn't, so the trade is a loss Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted March 18, 2016 Share Posted March 18, 2016 Pelly possibly being bad influence on lil Alex led to him being sent packing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovett's Magnatones Posted March 19, 2016 Share Posted March 19, 2016 DSP knows his career is (was?) in jeopardy. His effort was inconsistent in MTL, and now he's on the top line in Jersey trying to save his career. I'm happy for him. Maybe the "problem for a problem" trades are suspect, but Bergevin needs to realize the types of players MT succeeds with (mediocre, safe veterans like Torrey Mitchell in Tom Gilbert) instead of feeding him borderline NHL players with issues fitting in to systems play or just in general. Therrien isn't the kind of coach that spins straw into gold. But seriously, why is Michel Therrien still coaching the Canadiens? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PMAC Posted March 19, 2016 Share Posted March 19, 2016 Gents before we get too upset about the DSP trade, consider that his shooting % is currently over 42%. Does anyone think he will be able sustain that? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted March 19, 2016 Share Posted March 19, 2016 Well, he sure as heck didn't have a 42% shooting stat under Therrien...hmm, obviously has to be bad coaching that held him back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoRP Posted March 19, 2016 Share Posted March 19, 2016 I have better skating and speed than DSP, and he is at least as lazy as my dog is... glad he is gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovett's Magnatones Posted March 19, 2016 Share Posted March 19, 2016 I have better skating and speed than DSP, and he is at least as lazy as my dog is... glad he is gone. That's right, most people here didn't even think he could be traded. DSP stunk as a Canadien. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted March 19, 2016 Share Posted March 19, 2016 Maybe Desharnais is being held back and will light it up next year in Carolina? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted March 19, 2016 Share Posted March 19, 2016 Maybe Desharnais is being held back and will light it up next year in Carolina? Nice one! For the record, I am NOT declaring DSP to be a top-6 player. I'm just saying that IF he becomes one, that will count as an inexcusable failure on Therrien's part. He had a solution to the organization's biggest problem staring him in the face for two years and did zilch with it. Unforgivable. But that is all based on the huge 'IF.' Like most of you, I don't see DSP as a top-6 player and suspect this is just a freak thing, like those little tears Raffe Torres used to go on. What does worry me a bit is that the Habs may be one of these organizations that unloads guys who have less-than-ideal personality profiles, rather than working with them to get the most out of them. Kassian blows up? Ship him out without even giving him a chance post-rehab. DSP is lazy or too much on the party? Gonzo. I don't like this 'moralizing' approach. I think in today's NHL you have to be deeply committed to maximizing assets. But I'm not saying the Habs ARE still falling into this old-school trap; just speculating that it may be a problem. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted March 20, 2016 Share Posted March 20, 2016 Well, he sure as heck didn't have a 42% shooting stat under Therrien...hmm, obviously has to be bad coaching that held him back. Actually it could be. I am not saying it is but it is not impossible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted March 20, 2016 Share Posted March 20, 2016 The most recent successful one of these deals from a Montreal perspective is the Weise for Diaz move. But there usually aren't many successes in these types of trades by nature. If two players are struggling on their respective teams, the odds are a lot greater than not that they will on their new squads as well. If a team does 10 of these trades, they'll probably only get one or two players who actually do better than what they gave up in the first place. There will also be one or two times where they get worse while the rest of the time, it will be pretty close to a lateral swap. But for that one or two in ten chance that you get a better player, it's still worth doing, even if once in a while, the player you give up plays better on his new team. On a minor league scale, I'd suggest Lessio for Thomas and Desjardins for Tokarski a few years back qualify as moves that have better benefited Montreal than Arizona and Tampa Bay respectively. But they're both minor swaps of depth players so those deals don't get any attention. On the other side of the coin, what was the last change of scenery trade before this one that looked bad on the Habs? (And I'm not sure the Smith-Pelly one will be that bad in the end; he can't keep up this type of pace forever.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted March 20, 2016 Share Posted March 20, 2016 The most recent successful one of these deals from a Montreal perspective is the Weise for Diaz move. But there usually aren't many successes in these types of trades by nature. If two players are struggling on their respective teams, the odds are a lot greater than not that they will on their new squads as well. If a team does 10 of these trades, they'll probably only get one or two players who actually do better than what they gave up in the first place. There will also be one or two times where they get worse while the rest of the time, it will be pretty close to a lateral swap. But for that one or two in ten chance that you get a better player, it's still worth doing, even if once in a while, the player you give up plays better on his new team. On a minor league scale, I'd suggest Lessio for Thomas and Desjardins for Tokarski a few years back qualify as moves that have better benefited Montreal than Arizona and Tampa Bay respectively. But they're both minor swaps of depth players so those deals don't get any attention. On the other side of the coin, what was the last change of scenery trade before this one that looked bad on the Habs? (And I'm not sure the Smith-Pelly one will be that bad in the end; he can't keep up this type of pace forever.) Well, Fatendresse had that one excellent season in Minny. That looked pretty bad on us, but the effect diminished as his career petered out. Ribeiro blew up in our faces big-time. I don't know if that qualifies as 'change of scenery' or not. Arguably it was, since Niniima was struggling in Dallas and Bob probably saw him as a guy who could return to form in a different environment. Mikhail Grabovski emerged as a legit 2nd-line C the minute the Habs dumped him to Toronto. Jonas Hoglund was dealt to TO and immediately proceeded to score 29 goals. Darcy Tucker blossomed almost instantly into the super-pest, effective producer he became famous as when Montreal uncermoniously shipped him to TB. Valeri Bure is a slightly different case, since he'd scored 22 goals with us and was dealt (if memory serves) at the deadline in an attempt to bolster the roster for a run. Still, he went on to be a productive FW for Calgary. Between this track record, and disastrous 'pure hockey trades' such as LeClair/Desjardins, Roy, and McDonagh, it's not surprising Habs fans have a scarred collective consciousness. I would not be surprised if Montreal has one of the worst records for bad-to-catastrophic trades over the past 20 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted March 20, 2016 Share Posted March 20, 2016 Just about every team has made bad trades on young guys. Just look at Vincent Damphousse. Toronto packaged him to get Grant Fuhr from Edmonton. Remember all those great years of Fuhr on the Leafs? Then the Oilers dealt him to Montreal because they wanted grit and got Shayne Corson in return. Some teams have done it less than others but every team has a bad history for it. It just feels somehow worse for Montreal because Pollock in the 70s used to take advantage of GMs on expansion teams and it now feels like karma. Carolina gave up on Jack Johnson because he wouldn't leave college early. Does anyone remember what Washington got for Filip Forsberg? Do you recall who drafted Cam Neely first? Brett Hull? Markus Naslund? Daniel Briere? Adam Oates? The list goes on. Losing Tucker really hurt my uncle who was super high on him when we drafted him. Saw him as a big part of the three time Memorial Cup team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs owned the 70's Posted March 20, 2016 Share Posted March 20, 2016 At least Smith-Pelly was a legitimate NHL'er who had the potential of being a 3rd line player. The guy we got now is barely AHL level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted March 20, 2016 Share Posted March 20, 2016 Well, Fatendresse had that one excellent season in Minny. That looked pretty bad on us, but the effect diminished as his career petered out. Ribeiro blew up in our faces big-time. I don't know if that qualifies as 'change of scenery' or not. Arguably it was, since Niniima was struggling in Dallas and Bob probably saw him as a guy who could return to form in a different environment. Mikhail Grabovski emerged as a legit 2nd-line C the minute the Habs dumped him to Toronto. Jonas Hoglund was dealt to TO and immediately proceeded to score 29 goals. Darcy Tucker blossomed almost instantly into the super-pest, effective producer he became famous as when Montreal uncermoniously shipped him to TB. Valeri Bure is a slightly different case, since he'd scored 22 goals with us and was dealt (if memory serves) at the deadline in an attempt to bolster the roster for a run. Still, he went on to be a productive FW for Calgary. Between this track record, and disastrous 'pure hockey trades' such as LeClair/Desjardins, Roy, and McDonagh, it's not surprising Habs fans have a scarred collective consciousness. I would not be surprised if Montreal has one of the worst records for bad-to-catastrophic trades over the past 20 years. Latendresse had the one really good season but it was only one year. Pouliot had a half-decent run in Montreal so I wouldn't necessarily call that one a big loss. Ribeiro - it depends on why he was traded. If it's for the alleged off-ice reasons, it's not really a change of scenery trade but if they had soured on him in terms of his play then yes, that one would qualify. Grabovski was dealt for a pick and a prospect so that's not by definition a change of scenery trade. (The pick turned into Lang who had one decent season while the prospect was Pateryn.) The rest of them are back in the 1990's, several GM's ago. So in 15 years, only the above one or two qualify as real losses in those types of trades. That's a pretty good track record if you're only 'losing' those types of moves a couple of times a decade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habsFan1986 Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 MT has very little to do with the how bad he was here. It's more the fact that in Nj he is playing with better centres. We have no play making centres here which is why we can't score. Hopefully this trade opens the eyes of MB and we start to improve on our centres. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 MT has very little to do with the how bad he was here. It's more the fact that in Nj he is playing with better centres. We have no play making centres here which is why we can't score. Hopefully this trade opens the eyes of MB and we start to improve on our centres. well we have been saying that for years, so i am not sure how he could not know, but I agree with your point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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