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2016-17 NHL Season Thread


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5 hours ago, BCHabnut said:

Straight out of his mouth. Radulov said Weber played a big part in him going to Montreal. 

 

Yep I remember.

 

I get people want to jump on the I told you so bandwagon but IMO Weber was our best player in the playoffs so I'm fine with him. I honestly don't understand the random shitting on him though.

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3 hours ago, BCHabnut said:

Dear administrator. Please change the name of this website to habsubban world. 

 

WoW! A moment of clarity, thanks Nut!

 

Tired of the Subban worship, the trade is a year old, time to move on I would think.

 

I don't cheer for Subban, I am a Habs fan, and I think Weber is a stud...

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"If Subban was still on the Habs they would still be in the playoffs. If Weber was still on the Predators they would be out of the playoffs." 

 

- Irrational Hab fan logic 

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8 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said:

what i'm going to be rooting for now is for the Preds to win the cup and Subban choose to have his day with the cup in Montreal.  That way he can still keep his promise to Gainey AND stick it to MB and his foxhole buddy.

 

There's nothing I want more than everyone who still stands in support of Bergevin to see Subban with the Cup.

 

Happened with Kessel in Pittsburgh, hope it now happens with Subban. If not, the Predators still have a better shot next year than the character club Bergevin built.

 

It wasn't the worst trade in Habs history but it certainly feels like it has elements of the Chelios and Roy trades with a lot more passive aggressiveness.

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9 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said:

what i'm going to be rooting for now is for the Preds to win the cup and Subban choose to have his day with the cup in Montreal.  That way he can still keep his promise to Gainey AND stick it to MB and his foxhole buddy.

 

Yep. I'd love to see PK hoist the Cup. He deserves it after all the Old Boy crap he has had to eat over his career. Ryan Johansen is from my town too, so if he does something public it'd be here, which is cool. I'm all for the Preds at this point.

 

Incidentally, neither Habs29 nor I crapped on Weber. We're just pointing out the truth, which is that the trade did not make the Habs any better; all it did was make us older. That's a dumb trade, period.

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5 hours ago, BCHabnut said:

Dear administrator. Please change the name of this website to habsubban world. 

 

2016-17 NHL Season Thread = talk about other teams in the NHL in this thread. 
 
Its pretty easy to avoid non-habs talk if you really want to. 
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18 minutes ago, Scott462 said:

Making fun of Webers leadership and calling him washed up, also the whole good ol boy shtick is getting tiring.

 

Why is it a bad thing to be a stand up Canadian boy. Lol?

 

People are making fun of the idea that leadership matters.  This media narrative that you can't win with a guy who likes to have fun in warm-ups like PK, and that he's disruptive to chemistry, so he needed to be traded for character. 

 

its not making fun of weber. 

 

Its showing how silly Bergevin looks for putting such an emphasis on character over and above skill. 

 

 

Character over skill is what got us three trade deadline forwards who scored 2 points in 50 games as Habs. 

Character over skill is why we traded Subban in his prime for a guy four years older. 

Character over skill is why our second most talented forward started the playoffs on the fourth line. 

Character over skill is why we didn't even bid on a talented centre from Russia who became a UFA. 

Character over skill is why we draft Mike McCarron in the first round. 

 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Commandant said:

 

People are making fun of the idea that leadership matters.  This media narrative that you can't win with a guy who likes to have fun in warm-ups like PK, and that he's disruptive to chemistry, so he needed to be traded for character. 

 

its not making fun of weber. 

 

Its showing how silly Bergevin looks for putting such an emphasis on character over and above skill. 

 

 

Character over skill is what got us three trade deadline forwards who scored 2 points in 50 games as Habs. 

Character over skill is why we traded Subban in his prime for a guy four years older. 

Character over skill is why our second most talented forward started the playoffs on the fourth line. 

Character over skill is why we didn't even bid on a talented centre from Russia who became a UFA. 

Character over skill is why we draft Mike McCarron in the first round. 

 

 

 

 

I half agree with this. I still see no reason to try and undersell Weber to make your point.

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I was saying weeks before the trade that it was the perfect time for Poile to trade Weber to some dumb team that values him too much for a Kings Ransom before he gets too slow and falls off a cliff.

 

That dumb team became Montreal.

 

I don't think Shea should be booed (I wanted FOXHOLE chants) and I don't think he sucks. But I do think he's an inferior player to Subban and that the trade ruined the Habs cup window. It's all on Bergevin.

 

And if Brian wants to change my username to SubbansWorld.net I'm cool with it.

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4 minutes ago, Commandant said:

 

People are making fun of the idea that leadership matters.  This media narrative that you can't win with a guy who likes to have fun in warm-ups like PK, and that he's disruptive to chemistry, so he needed to be traded for character. 

 

its not making fun of weber. 

 

Its showing how silly Bergevin looks for putting such an emphasis on character over and above skill. 

 

 

Character over skill is what got us three trade deadline forwards who scored 2 points in 50 games as Habs. 

Character over skill is why we traded Subban in his prime for a guy four years older. 

Character over skill is why our second most talented forward started the playoffs on the fourth line. 

Character over skill is why we didn't even bid on a talented centre from Russia who became a UFA. 

Character over skill is why we draft Mike McCarron in the first round. 

 

 

 

 

Exactly.

 

As for me, I wouldn't deny that "leadership matters" per se. But Bergevin seems to have fallen into two ridiculous traps:

 

1. Subban was "not a leader" because he had flair, didn't play by the constipated Rules whereby looking enthusiastic after scoring a goal is a heinous sin, etc.. This is confusing exuberance with "lack of character."

2. The team was a disaster in 2016 because it "lacked leadership" - as opposed to, say, lacking an NHL-calibre goalie.

 

Further to (1), the discourse around Subban from the very beginning was - in addition to its regrettably racialist undertones - symptomatic of the NHL's transformation into a league where a military humourlessness is equated with "character" and "Canadian-ness." Not only did Subban occasionally make a flashy (aka "risky") play, he had the temerity to be a big personality. But the "old time hockey" that these Character Police are always lionizing was in fact full of larger-than-life personalities (Doug Harvey, Gump Worsely, Jacques Plante, Guy Lafleur, Pete Mahovlich, the list goes on and on) who didn't act like unsmiling robots. Those guys today would all have to be "fixed" by coaches before they would be allowed to play. None of this would matter if Subban had not been threatened with injury (Richards) for being too impudent, or if management had not bought into the absolute bullcrap narrative that PK's personality was a "problem." Unfortunately, management did buy into it, and responded by getting the archetypical Good Old Canadian Boy. The results of this defective reasoning are what we now see: a flatlined and aging Habs team that did not improve one iota.

 

That said, Weber is an excellent player. If he were Subban's age, I'd regret the logic of the trade but not its result. Since he is in the first stages of decline on a 10-year contract, the trade tips over from lateral move into stupidity.

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21 minutes ago, Scott462 said:

 

I half agree with this. I still see no reason to try and undersell Weber to make your point.

 

How is this underselling Weber. 

 

The only thing I said was that Subban was in his prime and Weber was four years older.  That's fact.  

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9 minutes ago, Commandant said:

 

How is this underselling Weber. 

 

The only thing I said was that Subban was in his prime and Weber was four years older.  That's fact.  

 

I wasn't talking about you. You replied to my post defending other posters in regards to Weber. I was addressing that.

 

Honestly you haven't said a bad thing about Weber just that you consider Subban better than him. Didn't you buy his jersey this year too?

 

I never had a problem with Subban he was one of my favourite players while he was a Hab. Did he drive me nuts sometimes with his antics and his play? Absolutely but that's apart of it, I just don't see a reason to make a point the fact Weber is a good old Canadian boy as something he should be ashamed of.

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4 minutes ago, Scott462 said:

I just don't see a reason to make a point the fact Weber is a good old Canadian boy as something he should be ashamed of.

 

It's super boring. As interesting as a wheat field.

 

The NHL needs more personality. It's like the 00s killed personality in hockey.

 

Pacioretty acts like a good old Canadian boy and he's American. Give me some excitement. 

 

Gallagher is an exciting player with his own personality. I'll take that.

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11 minutes ago, Scott462 said:

 

I wasn't talking about you. You replied to my post defending other posters in regards to Weber. I was addressing that.

 

Honestly you haven't said a bad thing about Weber just that you consider Subban better than him. Didn't you buy his jersey this year too?

 

I never had a problem with Subban he was one of my favourite players while he was a Hab. Did he drive me nuts sometimes with his antics and his play? Absolutely but that's apart of it, I just don't see a reason to make a point the fact Weber is a good old Canadian boy as something he should be ashamed of.

 

Saying Subban is better than Weber is not a knock against Weber.  

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Guest Stogey24
2 minutes ago, Machine of Loving Grace said:

 

It's super boring. As interesting as a wheat field.

 

The NHL needs more personality. It's like the 00s killed personality in hockey.

 

Pacioretty acts like a good old Canadian boy and he's American. Give me some excitement. 

 

Gallagher is an exciting player with his own personality. I'll take that.

Monotone Max. 

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10 minutes ago, Machine of Loving Grace said:

 

It's super boring. As interesting as a wheat field.

 

The NHL needs more personality. It's like the 00s killed personality in hockey.

 

Pacioretty acts like a good old Canadian boy and he's American. Give me some excitement. 

 

Gallagher is an exciting player with his own personality. I'll take that.

 

Thats perfectly fine if you find it boring. Personally I like Webers no nonsense approach to it and his to the point interviews. It always gives me a chuckle.

 

Guys like Crosby are good old Canadian boys and he's probably the most exciting guy to watch play hockey.

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Here is the main point.

 

 

Surrounding the trade and the narrative of "Character"
 


The narrative was that PK was divisive in the locker room and the team could never win with such a divisive personality. 
The narrative was also that Shea Weber was a great leader, and that he would help lead a team that had issues in its locker room. 


Well one team is winning and is in the conference final. PK isn't disturbing the Nashville lockerroom. 
Meanwhile Bergevin called this team "fragile" when the season ended, in his press conference.

 

What this tells us is one of the following

 

1) leadership and locker room harmony aren't nearly as important to winning as we have been lead to believe.

2) Winning actually leads to locker room harmony and losing leads to schisms and finger pointing.... basically we have been wrong about what was the cause and effect all this time.

3) The narratives around PK being such a poor member of the locker room, and Shea being a supreme leader were exagerrated. 

 

 

Personally I think its a combination of the three.  but mostly 1 and 2. 

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It's forgotten in history that the Blackhawks locker room was an absolute mess when they won their last Cup. I think it was Sharp and Keith had a fist fight in the locker room. Raanta said it was the worst experience of his hockey career despite the fact they won the Cup.

 

They still stuck together and won a Cup.

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