GDT Montreal Canadiens vs. Vancouver Canucks | March 7th, 2017 | 10:00 EST

[DON]

10 hours ago, Commandant said:

 

With Radulov out of the lineup... Gallagher isn't the problem on that unit.  Its Danault. 

Yes, he sucked and only was 20-8 on faceoffs.

[DON]

45 minutes ago, zumpano21 said:

 

SNP were such brutal homers last night. (They must be taking tips from RDS).

 

Ill take that stat as a backhanded compliment to our team.

John Garrett has been the bottom of the barrel for years and spouts off stupid stuff all the time, his partner is left speechless often.

But Miller deserved 3rd star at least...38shots, bunch of good saves and only two only fluky tipped ones get by him.

[Commandant]

7 minutes ago, DON said:

Yes, he sucked and only was 20-8 on faceoffs.

 

If you don't do anything after winning the faceoff... why do i care?

 

Last I checked, they determine the winning team by who scores more goals, not who wins more faceoffs. 

[DON]

1 minute ago, Commandant said:

 

If you don't do anything after winning the faceoff... why do i care?

 

Last I checked, they determine the winning team by who scores more goals, not who wins more faceoffs. 

Ya, he sucked and did nothing all game....happy?

[Commandant]

16 minutes ago, DON said:

 

[Commandant]

You seem to have issues with reading comprehension..  We were talking about the powerplay and who was on the first powerplay unit. 

The criticism was having him on the first powerplay unit. 

 

He did nothing on the powerplay. 

 

 

Why are you twisting words to say he did nothing all game. 

 

 

Its the same bullshit over and over again with you.... I say "faceoffs are as important as any other puck battle on the ice"... you come back and twist my words as if i said  "Faceoffs don't matter at all."  Last summer I would say "Weber is good, but I think Subban is better." you'd twist that into "Weber Sucks".   Now you twist the fact that he didn't do anything on the powerplay to that he sucked all game. Its getting annoying that you keep twisting the words into something that wasn't said. 

 

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Miller was excellent, stopping several quality Habs' chances, especially during the middle part of the game, which Julien's boys dominated. I have no problem with the 3-star selection.

 

Fantastic GWG by Byron. That stuff's not easy to do - a perfect deflection.

 

Gallagher: he's really battling now, shift after shift. But he's still doing things like falling down too much, making dodgy passes, overthinking it out there. He has, however, earned our faith that he will eventually come out of it. Certainly the coach believes in him - you can see the respect he built up playing the Bs by observing Julien's heavy usage of him.

 

I agree with everyone on Benn. The guy's a rock.

 

Davison did not impress, however. Expect Emelin to slot back in soon enough.

 

On another note, it looks as though the Canuckleheads might be approaching 'critical mass' in terms of good young players. Goldilocks helps them a lot when it comes to speed and skill and Horvat is the real deal. Whether they can survive the Twins' retirement is another question, but I saw a team that is at least getting on the right track, finally.

 

 

[Guest Stogey24]

I've said it so many times before. Emelin's hockey IQ is awful. Puck chasing is a constant with him. 

 

Let Davidson get a couple games in before any judgement is made.

 

 

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

33 minutes ago, Stogey24 said:

I've said it so many times before. Emelin's hockey IQ is awful. Puck chasing is a constant with him. 

 

Let Davidson get a couple games in before any judgement is made.

 

 

 

Fair enough. Maybe he was nervous. He had trouble making even basic passes.

 

Emelin's physicality is no longer a standout attribute on the retooled Habs, so that hurts his position.

 

I still believe our LD risks being the Achilles' Heel in the playoffs.

[xXx..CK..xXx]

3 hours ago, Commandant said:

You seem to have issues with reading comprehension..  We were talking about the powerplay and who was on the first powerplay unit. 

The criticism was having him on the first powerplay unit. 

 

He did nothing on the powerplay. 

 

 

Why are you twisting words to say he did nothing all game. 

 

 

Its the same bullshit over and over again with you.... I say "faceoffs are as important as any other puck battle on the ice"... you come back and twist my words as if i said  "Faceoffs don't matter at all."  Last summer I would say "Weber is good, but I think Subban is better." you'd twist that into "Weber Sucks".   Now you twist the fact that he didn't do anything on the powerplay to that he sucked all game. Its getting annoying that you keep twisting the words into something that wasn't said. 

 

Faceoffs are not the same as puck battles along the boards. Rarely, are there any puck battles that legitimately begin 50/50. You can have a really good puck battler win 20% of their puck battles in a season due to them being on the tougher side of the battle in general. Whether it was because they always seemed to join in on the battle while the other player already had the puck between their skate and the board or even for the opposite reason. The uncertainty cannot be controlled. I'd be interested to see if Yannick Perreault ever hit 20%.

 

When you take a face off, players are at a stand still. They need to react and get into position as quickly as they can once the puck is dropped. If even one player doesn't do their job immediately, the whole system breaks down. In your situation, the engine is already running, whereas on a face off, you need to get the engine going. Especially in the defensive zone, coaches will work on wingers rushing out to the point in order to cover the defense because if they don't, the opposing team can get a golden opportunity. This is in addition to about a million other things based solely around faceoffs. If you ask me, coaches probably work on faceoffs versus puck battles at about a 4 to 1 ratio at the very least.

 

Now you said face offs are just as important as any puck battle on the ice and if you don't want me to twist your words, I'll ask you what's your point? You said "important" and not "different" so I guess there's no argument there. Of course your team should want to gain possession of the puck at any chance. Faceoffs are different though because it's a relatively controlled environment, so it's an area that better coached teams will excel at as well as teams with the right personnel up the middle.

 

We scored on a set play off a faceoff against Vancouver.

[Commandant]

What set play off a faceoff was scored against vancouver?

 

And people have done the numbers.  Faceoffs affect some goals but are actually less likely to result in a goal than a won puck battle along the boards... because many faceoffs are not clean... they are wins, but they are wins on scrambled draws and other issues.  Also the being in a set position and having a play mapped out appliesfor both the defensive team and the defensive team and its the defensive team that actually has the advantage here.  

 

But sure buy the narrative that the difference in 2 faceoff wins per game that is 55% vs 45% matters so much that we should be concerned about alex galchenyuk scoring a ppg and controlling possession cause hes a bad faceoff guy.

[xXx..CK..xXx]

I knew that added part would come back to bite me. I had to rush off before I could switch that in all honesty but I meant Benn's goal against New York.

 

I have no opinion on Galchenyuk as a centerman. I think on the current habs roster, he fits as a centerman  because of our intrusive need for a skilled one but on a lot of teams he could be a great winger as well. 

 

I dont expect Galchenyuk to become amazing at something that is not innate to him. I do think that a player of the same caliber has an advantage to their team if they are good at faceoffs however. If only because of the coach who will be forced to put out a lesser player on to the ice for being good at faceoffs. As a result, the team will have a lesser chance to produce offensively itself. I wasn't even discussing Galchenyuk but while I never expect him to be elite, he should certainly get better at faceoffs.

[JoeLassister]

What bugs me about Galchenyuk as a C, is his dzone coverage.  He has a lot to learn from Plek and Danault.

What I don't fawking care about is his faceoffs%.   Hell,  Mark Scheifele, 4th scorers of the NHL,  wins 43,7% of his faceoffs !!!

[THE Bobby Orr]

12 minutes ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

I knew that added part would come back to bite me. I had to rush off before I could switch that in all honesty but I meant Benn's goal against New York.

 

I have no opinion on Galchenyuk as a centerman. I think on the current habs roster, he fits as a centerman  because of our intrusive need for a skilled one but on a lot of teams he could be a great winger as well. 

 

I dont expect Galchenyuk to become amazing at something that is not innate to him. I do think that a player of the same caliber has an advantage to their team if they are good at faceoffs however. If only because of the coach who will be forced to put out a lesser player on to the ice for being good at faceoffs. As a result, the team will have a lesser chance to produce offensively itself. I wasn't even discussing Galchenyuk but while I never expect him to be elite, he should certainly get better at faceoffs.

if MB finanlly lands an experience #1 C...i believe #27 should move to the wing.. and one-time the puck every chance he gets...

[Jeff Price (no relation)]

14 minutes ago, JoeLassister said:

What bugs me about Galchenyuk as a C, is his dzone coverage.  He has a lot to learn from Plek and Danault.

What I don't fawking care about is his faceoffs%.   Hell,  Mark Scheifele, 4th scorers of the NHL,  wins 43,7% of his faceoffs !!!

His defensive zone coverage last night was great.

 

But I admit it's not something he's typically done well.

[Jeff Price (no relation)]

7 hours ago, zumpano21 said:

 

SNP were such brutal homers last night. (They must be taking tips from RDS).

 

Ill take that stat as a backhanded compliment to our team.

 

I'd take it in much the way I take this:

 

 

[Commandant]

1 hour ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

I knew that added part would come back to bite me. I had to rush off before I could switch that in all honesty but I meant Benn's goal against New York.

 

I have no opinion on Galchenyuk as a centerman. I think on the current habs roster, he fits as a centerman  because of our intrusive need for a skilled one but on a lot of teams he could be a great winger as well. 

 

I dont expect Galchenyuk to become amazing at something that is not innate to him. I do think that a player of the same caliber has an advantage to their team if they are good at faceoffs however. If only because of the coach who will be forced to put out a lesser player on to the ice for being good at faceoffs. As a result, the team will have a lesser chance to produce offensively itself. I wasn't even discussing Galchenyuk but while I never expect him to be elite, he should certainly get better at faceoffs.

 

Of course.

 

If you have two plaers who are the same caliber in every other aspect, and one has better faceoffs than the other, the one with better faceoffs gets the edge.  No one would deny this.  It seems a very obvious thing.... if they are the same in goal scoring, passing, offense, defence, battles for loose pucks, etc... but one is better on faceoffs, then yes he's a better player.

 

What I'm saying is this... rarely are you going to get two players who are equal in every aspect.  But on a team starved for offence, with all the things Galchenyuk does well, I'm not worried at all about his faceoffs.  Its pretty minor compared to his ability to score 30+ goals and produce at close to a PPG pace. 

 

 

1 hour ago, JoeLassister said:

What bugs me about Galchenyuk as a C, is his dzone coverage.  He has a lot to learn from Plek and Danault.

What I don't fawking care about is his faceoffs%.   Hell,  Mark Scheifele, 4th scorers of the NHL,  wins 43,7% of his faceoffs !!!

 

Dzone coverage is absolutely a concern of his and an area to improve. 

 

 

[JGC21]

I like when MTL has players who can win faceoffs.  Carbonneau, Muller and Koivu spolied me (us).  The current crop of centres can't win faceoffs regulalry and its disturbing.  Faceoffs are a part of the game of eventually losing a key faceoff will hurt you.  Just like winning a key faceoff (like when Ott won one in NY which lesd to Weber's goal) can help you.

[Commandant]

Yes winning and losing battles can help you or hurt you.

 

The thing is though that we tend to remember the faceoff win in New York.  

 

Do we remember the intercepted pass in the D-zone that led to Paul Byron's game winner last night?

 

Both are just as important, but the faceoff win gets glorified over the other ways to gain possession of the puck. 

 

At some point in every goal... you had to gain possession of the puck... and faceoff wins lead to some goals, but they don't lead to more goals than the other ways.

 

So who care about the extra two faceoff wins per game that is the difference between 45-55 if you can't do the other things as well as chuck does. 

[Commandant]

If you're a positive possession player, your team has the puck more than you lose it... and I'd rather have that, then winning a few extra faceoffs but being a 30% possession guy like Ott was last night. 

[BCHabnut]

Watching live, I thought Shaw had a great game. The guy is so tenacious. Byron and Paccioretty dominate with their speed. Gallagher is himself again. Passing and shooting have never been his strong points. Speed tenacious work behind the net and net front is where he earns his money. The damn is gonna break. He needs to take more Interference penalties.that's when he is producing.  Davidson made me nervous. Didn't really like King 's game, but I was kinda drunk, so maybe I missed some good stuff. So many times when the team is hemmed in and give up good chances, Chucky is on the ice. But his point production is so good as a centre, I think he just needs to be coached and have complimentary players with him who are better defensively. Same goes for face-offs. I'm liking the view that, while important and strategic, face offs are hyped way too much. Chucky has some slick mitts and if he is producing as a centre, he should stay there. 

[Commandant]

Is anyone in Winnipeg saying Schiefele should be a winger? 4th leading scorer in the NHL... 43.7% on faceoffs. 

[KoRP]

5 hours ago, Commandant said:

Is anyone in Winnipeg saying Schiefele should be a winger? 4th leading scorer in the NHL... 43.7% on faceoffs. 

Saw a highlight reel of plays last night where Schiefele lost numerous battles in front of his net(Malkin's 3rd last night), and along the boards as well, and showed poor defensive awareness,  he is young as is Chucky, and I'll bet that Chucky would be right up near the top of the scoring race without the injury trouble he had this year.

45%-55% on the draw, meh, I can live with that because he brings such excitement and skill when he gets that bisquit on his stick.

 

I don't really buy in to the idea and modern narrative however, that face offs aren't important, they most certainly are, especially in your own zone, and when you have a point man like Weber, or Markov in the O zone, they aren't the be all end all, but they are still an important part of the game...start with possession, or start having to get possession, it's a no brainer that they are important.

[illWill]

My take on face offs is that they are important , but they are way overrated. Possession changes a billion times throughout a game and face offs are only a small percentage of that. There are definitely ones that are more important than others, like when a team is on the powerplay or shorthanded, or late in the game. A face off at even strength outside the blue line doesn't compare to those. I guess I'd just want a guy who is clutch at winning them in those situations rather than focus on his overall number. 

 

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

9 hours ago, BCHabnut said:

Watching live, I thought Shaw had a great game. The guy is so tenacious. Byron and Paccioretty dominate with their speed. Gallagher is himself again. Passing and shooting have never been his strong points. Speed tenacious work behind the net and net front is where he earns his money. The damn is gonna break. He needs to take more Interference penalties.that's when he is producing.  Davidson made me nervous. Didn't really like King 's game, but I was kinda drunk, so maybe I missed some good stuff. So many times when the team is hemmed in and give up good chances, Chucky is on the ice. But his point production is so good as a centre, I think he just needs to be coached and have complimentary players with him who are better defensively. Same goes for face-offs. I'm liking the view that, while important and strategic, face offs are hyped way too much. Chucky has some slick mitts and if he is producing as a centre, he should stay there. 

 

Shaw has come around big-time...FINALLY. He's a dynamo lately. I agree on Davidson, but most commentators seem to think he did fine, so maybe it's just us (although I was sober, alas)