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2021 Habs Free Agents: Who goes? Who stays? What's the price?


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9 hours ago, Commandant said:

 

He got into a fights with teammates, including his own goalie, when he blames them for mistakes that lead to goals against. (ie after he made a giveaway, the goalie let the goal in and he got into a fight with him about it).

 

He also has a history of homophobic slurs including to his own teammates in junior. 

 

His public statements, including his short lived podcast, showed that he holds many of the most abhorrent views of the most far-right trump supporters. Not just typical conservative views, but like the things from the real fringe and most problematic parts of the party. 

I guess the extreme right wing, Trump supporter part is at least something he’s got in common with Bobby Orr.

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23 hours ago, tomh009 said:

Assuming we can find one, that will cost substantially more than Gustafsson (who is very unlikely to get over $2M anywhere).

 

But we do need someone like him, it really does make a big difference to the PP.

Likely true ... but it would be worth paying more for a PMD who can not only help the PP but also legitimately carry some of the top 4 load ... or make the 3rd pairing good enough to take minutes off the shoulders of the top 4.

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5 hours ago, Trizzak said:

Also mistreatment of European teammates. 

I think there is just too much baggage. We need a dman with his offensive skill set, but there is just way too much baggage and red flags. This isn’t like a substance abuse issue, that someone can work through. 

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29 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

I think there is just too much baggage. We need a dman with his offensive skill set, but there is just way too much baggage and red flags. This isn’t like a substance abuse issue, that someone can work through. 

It is a little worrisome that Bergevin has touted "character" so highly in the past, but has been linked to having interest in bringing in toxic players and assholes. 

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34 minutes ago, GHT120 said:

Likely true ... but it would be worth paying more for a PMD who can not only help the PP but also legitimately carry some of the top 4 load ... or make the 3rd pairing good enough to take minutes off the shoulders of the top 4.

Quite. High-quality PMDs are almost as rare as hens' teeth, though.

 

Which is why I wonder whether Bergevin and Ducharme see Gustafsson as a reclamation/rehabilitation project, and make an offer to him. He needs work, to be sure, but can he improve? I don't know the answer to that.

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8 minutes ago, tomh009 said:

Quite. High-quality PMDs are almost as rare as hens' teeth, though.

 

Which is why I wonder whether Bergevin and Ducharme see Gustafsson as a reclamation/rehabilitation project, and make an offer to him. He needs work, to be sure, but can he improve? I don't know the answer to that.

 

Hes 29.  It.seems highly unlikely he gets better.  Hes closer to the age where rhe skills he has (skating) will.start to decline than he is to developping his defence.

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8 minutes ago, Commandant said:

Hes 29.  It.seems highly unlikely he gets better.  Hes closer to the age where rhe skills he has (skating) will.start to decline than he is to developping his defence.

I know. But we picked up Edmundson and Chiarot up at 27 and 28, and they have played better for the Habs than they did before. So it's not 100%.

 

I'm merely speculating about what Bergevin and Ducharme are envisioning.

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Minnesota has bought out Ryan Suter.  I haven't seen him play much this year but he has been playing big minutes on a decent defence.  Would he be worth picking up on a 2 year contract?  He's 36 now so it is an over 35 deal.  Would he want to be reunited with Weber?

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12 hours ago, tomh009 said:

I know. But we picked up Edmundson and Chiarot up at 27 and 28, and they have played better for the Habs than they did before. So it's not 100%.

 

I'm merely speculating about what Bergevin and Ducharme are envisioning.

 

I’m not sure there is a parallel. Chiarot has basically played the same in Montreal as he did in the ‘Peg, while Edmundson has reverted to his form from St. Louis (this was a calculated gamble based on an analysis of Carolina’s system, which did not suit him, versus that of the Blues and the Habs, which does). 

 

So, both of those guys have played as expected based on past performance. Gustafsson is a veteran who does not understand the defensive part of the game. There is no past baseline of success in this respect to which he can revert. In other words, he is what he is.

 

Now I don’t hate Gustafsson; I still think he made our PP run and that without him, our PP was reliably pathetic. But if we re-sign him, it will either be as depth or because we have no confidence in getting anything better; and we will be looking at an extended run of the coaches heavily managing his minutes, sheltering him, etc.. If a team is only as strong as its weakest link, then a team with that guy in the lineup has a fundamental weakness.

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1 hour ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

I’m not sure there is a parallel. Chiarot has basically played the same in Montreal as he did in the ‘Peg, while Edmundson has reverted to his form from St. Louis (this was a calculated gamble based on an analysis of Carolina’s system, which did not suit him, versus that of the Blues and the Habs, which does). 

 

So, both of those guys have played as expected based on past performance. Gustafsson is a veteran who does not understand the defensive part of the game. There is no past baseline of success in this respect to which he can revert. In other words, he is what he is.

 

Now I don’t hate Gustafsson; I still think he made our PP run and that without him, our PP was reliably pathetic. But if we re-sign him, it will either be as depth or because we have no confidence in getting anything better; and we will be looking at an extended run of the coaches heavily managing his minutes, sheltering him, etc.. If a team is only as strong as its weakest link, then a team with that guy in the lineup has a fundamental weakness.

I thought the PP with him against Tampa was pathetic as well in the last couple games he played.

 

we need an upgrade on D. I think that has to be the number 1 priority- more important than resigning and potentially over paying for Danault. More important than retaining Allen (was great this year, but at the end of the day a backup goaltender is easier to find than top dmen).

 

ideal situation IMO, would be we add a good young puck mover that can skate (like Hamilton), add Suter - if it’s for an affordable contract and move Chiarot - and take advantage of his higher value after the playoffs.

 

I think we need a more mobile D to make the playoffs in the Atlantic - we can’t take about playoff success until we actually make it.  We aren’t making the playoffs win the Atlantic with the same winning percentage as last year in the North, with three weak teams. There are four teams in the Atlantic that finished ahead of this year - we need to be better than at least one of them. 
 

We can only spend so much money on D, but I think that is where our need is, and we can only have so many big, but slow Dmen. To me if we are keeping Weber (which I think we probably are - even though it would be the ideal time to unload the contract), we need to have more mobility and Dmen that can move the puck up better. Suter would be an upgrade over Chiarot. Another skilled partner for Petry would be ideal. Edmondson and Romanov on the bottom pairing.

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A few things.

 

Every division had weak teams.  Buffalo and New Jersey were both worse than any team in the North.   Philly's goaltending was like 880 last season and this tanked them.

 

All of California and Arizona were shit in their division. 

 

The other division had Detroit, Columbus and Chicago (who started strong on a rookie goalie playing out of his mind and then fell apart). 

 

So every division had 3 weak teams to beat up on ... and the Atlantic will still have Ottawa, Detroit, and Buffalo. 

 

Also with the unbalanced schedule, I don't think you can simply look at how many points teams got, its not equivalent with the fact the schedule sucked. 

 

That said, yes, there are five teams in the Atlantic (including us) who could all make the playoffs next year, so we need to make some improvements to get in. 

 

I'm not worried about a Dman to run the PP.  Suzuki should be the one running the PP going forward.  This whole idea that the D needs to run the PP is one that modern coaches are relying on less and less. 

 

I do think we need a D who can skate and get the puck out of the zone and start the transition game. 

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21 minutes ago, Commandant said:

A few things.

 

Every division had weak teams.  Buffalo and New Jersey were both worse than any team in the North.   Philly's goaltending was like 880 last season and this tanked them.

 

All of California and Arizona were shit in their division. 

 

The other division had Detroit, Columbus and Chicago (who started strong on a rookie goalie playing out of his mind and then fell apart). 

 

So every division had 3 weak teams to beat up on ... and the Atlantic will still have Ottawa, Detroit, and Buffalo. 

 

Also with the unbalanced schedule, I don't think you can simply look at how many points teams got, its not equivalent with the fact the schedule sucked. 

 

That said, yes, there are five teams in the Atlantic (including us) who could all make the playoffs next year, so we need to make some improvements to get in. 

 

I'm not worried about a Dman to run the PP.  Suzuki should be the one running the PP going forward.  This whole idea that the D needs to run the PP is one that modern coaches are relying on less and less. 

 

I do think we need a D who can skate and get the puck out of the zone and start the transition game. 

Gustafson’s possession numbers are elite among all available LDs , and he can skate... I wonder who needs a player like him 🤔

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They aren't elite when you factor in that he needs to be heavily sheltered to get those results.

 

Any years where he hasn't had that heavily sheltering (limited 5v5 time, heavy offensive zone starts, weak opponents, and strong defensive partner) his advanced stats crater

 

Montreal was so heavily sheltering him that 84.2% of his time on the ice was starting a shift with a faceoff in the offensive zone.

 

Factor that in and a 65% Corsi no longer looks so elite. 

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2 hours ago, Commandant said:

A few things.

 

Every division had weak teams.  Buffalo and New Jersey were both worse than any team in the North.   Philly's goaltending was like 880 last season and this tanked them.

 

All of California and Arizona were shit in their division. 

 

The other division had Detroit, Columbus and Chicago (who started strong on a rookie goalie playing out of his mind and then fell apart). 

 

So every division had 3 weak teams to beat up on ... and the Atlantic will still have Ottawa, Detroit, and Buffalo. 

 

Also with the unbalanced schedule, I don't think you can simply look at how many points teams got, its not equivalent with the fact the schedule sucked. 

 

That said, yes, there are five teams in the Atlantic (including us) who could all make the playoffs next year, so we need to make some improvements to get in. 

 

I'm not worried about a Dman to run the PP.  Suzuki should be the one running the PP going forward.  This whole idea that the D needs to run the PP is one that modern coaches are relying on less and less. 

 

I do think we need a D who can skate and get the puck out of the zone and start the transition game. 

I’ve been saying all year, we shod try five forwards in the PP, because we don’t have a real QB. Having said that, I think we need to improve the D, by having a more mobile D, that can drive the play and be a regular threat in the offensive zone 5 on 5.

 

This year it seemed like we either struggle even to chip it out, because we have trouble carrying the puck out, and struggle to get out of our zone, or go we are trying for that Hail Mary breakaway pass.  There just not seem to be a middle ground. Either we can’t get out, or we go for the long bomb pass. I’d like our D to be seen as more if a threat when we get to the other team’s zone. Petry is really the only guy who can play that role.

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12 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

I’ve been saying all year, we shod try five forwards in the PP, because we don’t have a real QB. Having said that, I think we need to improve the D, by having a more mobile D, that can drive the play and be a regular threat in the offensive zone 5 on 5.

 

This year it seemed like we either struggle even to chip it out, because we have trouble carrying the puck out, and struggle to get out of our zone, or go we are trying for that Hail Mary breakaway pass.  There just not seem to be a middle ground. Either we can’t get out, or we go for the long bomb pass. I’d like our D to be seen as more if a threat when we get to the other team’s zone. Petry is really the only guy who can play that role.

Drouin is really good at it too. Mete was good but that's a mute point. If I am not mistaken Brook is also good at it

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Whether Gustafsson or other we need people to help us score. We are built for the playoffs but will struggle through the regular season - like the Kings have. It is a real possibility that we struggle to make the playoffs. 
 

Price/Allen/other will not have a .930 save % during regular season and we always have trouble scoring. Not to mention that Chairot and Weber can’t play at that level all season. 
 

A guy like Gustafsson likely performs better in the regular season where the demands aren’t as extreme. Pair him with Chairot and I think it would be okay. Gustofsson should be seldom used in the playoffs though. His Dzone mistakes are too costly. 
 

If we can find better then of course we sign better
 

 

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3 hours ago, Commandant said:

... 3 weak teams to beat up on ... and the Atlantic will still have Ottawa, Detroit, and Buffalo ...

After the second hall of last season I am not certain teams will be beating up, on Ottawa ... they finished at 51 points in 56 games (.455) but were at 19 after 28 games (.328); last half of the season they got 32 points (.571 pace) ... don't think they are a playoff contender ... but even allowing for extraneous factors (schedule, lack of playoff pressure, etc.) I fear the Sens are not far away from being a problem in the Atlantic.

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1 hour ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:

Whether Gustafsson or other we need people to help us score. We are built for the playoffs but will struggle through the regular season - like the Kings have. It is a real possibility that we struggle to make the playoffs. 
 

Price/Allen/other will not have a .930 save % during regular season and we always have trouble scoring. Not to mention that Chairot and Weber can’t play at that level all season. 
 

A guy like Gustafsson likely performs better in the regular season where the demands aren’t as extreme. Pair him with Chairot and I think it would be okay. Gustofsson should be seldom used in the playoffs though. His Dzone mistakes are too costly. 
 

If we can find better then of course we sign better
 

 

Or get away with as much

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1 hour ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:

Whether Gustafsson or other we need people to help us score. We are built for the playoffs but will struggle through the regular season - like the Kings have. It is a real possibility that we struggle to make the playoffs. 
 

Price/Allen/other will not have a .930 save % during regular season and we always have trouble scoring. Not to mention that Chairot and Weber can’t play at that level all season. 
 

A guy like Gustafsson likely performs better in the regular season where the demands aren’t as extreme. Pair him with Chairot and I think it would be okay. Gustofsson should be seldom used in the playoffs though. His Dzone mistakes are too costly. 
 

If we can find better then of course we sign better
 

 

think of Gustafsson as the D version of Tatar

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1 hour ago, GHT120 said:

After the second hall of last season I am not certain teams will be beating up, on Ottawa ... they finished at 51 points in 56 games (.455) but were at 19 after 28 games (.328); last half of the season they got 32 points (.571 pace) ... don't think they are a playoff contender ... but even allowing for extraneous factors (schedule, lack of playoff pressure, etc.) I fear the Sens are not far away from being a problem in the Atlantic.

Let’s hope Macquire screws up their rebuild 😁

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Just now, alfredoh2009 said:

think of Gustafsson as the D version of Tatar

Gustafson is more of a D version of the one year wonder Kjel Dahlin.

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1 hour ago, GHT120 said:

After the second hall of last season I am not certain teams will be beating up, on Ottawa ... they finished at 51 points in 56 games (.455) but were at 19 after 28 games (.328); last half of the season they got 32 points (.571 pace) ... don't think they are a playoff contender ... but even allowing for extraneous factors (schedule, lack of playoff pressure, etc.) I fear the Sens are not far away from being a problem in the Atlantic.

 

We spent years watching the Leafs do this (2006-2015).  The team plays like crap, is eliminated from the playoffs and then plays well. 

 

I want to see more from the Sens before I believe in them. 

 

Matt Murray is their number one goalie. 

Josh Norris and a bunch of question marks are their centre depth. 

The Defence has Victor Mete in their top 4.... with Chabot, Zub and Brannstrom.

 

So a team with question marks in goal, at centre and on D, is going to be good in games that count?  I have serious doubts.

 

I mean there are competitive teams who have questions at one of the three spots, but all three and expect the rest of the lineup to carry them? I just don't see it. 

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16 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

think of Gustafsson as the D version of Tatar

 

No, Tatar was good defensively as a forward. 

 

I'm still shocked that people watched Gustafsson for 21 games in a Habs sweater think he is anything more than Marc Andre Bergeron 2.0. 

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2 minutes ago, Commandant said:

 

No, Tatar was good defensively as a forward. 

 

I'm still shocked that people watched Gustafsson for 21 games in a Habs sweater think he is anything more than Marc Andre Bergeron 2.0. 

I know, I am shocked too on how little respect MAB ever got.

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