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2021/2022 Lineup Ideas


hockeyrealist
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I feel there are 2 Drouins. If we get the good one, I actually could see him as our 2nd line C. When he was good for the Habs, he was skating, moving his feet, even in the defensive zone. (Bad Drouin is flat out useless, that is understood). 
 

KK can hone in his checking skills on the 3rd line with Suzuki/Drouin 1 and 2. 
 

I bet it’s an experiment we will see, especially with DD as HC - and I’m more optimistic than pessimistic in its success. 
 

(bookmark this to either praise me or shame me later!!!)

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On 8/21/2021 at 5:09 AM, revvvrob said:

I feel there are 2 Drouins. If we get the good one, I actually could see him as our 2nd line C. When he was good for the Habs, he was skating, moving his feet, even in the defensive zone. (Bad Drouin is flat out useless, that is understood). 
 

KK can hone in his checking skills on the 3rd line with Suzuki/Drouin 1 and 2. 
 

I bet it’s an experiment we will see, especially with DD as HC - and I’m more optimistic than pessimistic in its success. 
 

(bookmark this to either praise me or shame me later!!!)

 

And here is my counter-narrative: we’re not going to get “Good Drouin” consistently over 82 games. And Drouin is not a C. You might as well put Caufield or Hoffmann in that slot.

 

Drouin has proven over 7 NHL seasons that he is a player who can never be counted upon to do anything. The way to think about him, therefore, is as a random bonus. If he goes on a hot streak, great, you have a very effective top-6 FW for a while, before he inevitably craps out again.

 

Any team that requires him to be a reliable player, let alone a reliable #2 C (!!) is just a bad team. What your post really illustrates to me is how grossly inadequate the Habs are at C right now.

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Well with Drouin back I would think they would put him back with Suzuki so lines could be 

 

Drouin  / Suzuki  / Caufeild 

Hoffman  / Kotkaniemi  / Anderson 

Toffoli  / Evans  / Gallagher 

Lehkonen  /  Paquette  / Armia 

 

Ex Poehling , Perreault 

 

Edmundson  / Petry 

Romanov  / Savard 

Chiarot  / Wideman 

 

Ex Kulak 

 

Price 

Allan 

 

That could be Our opening day lines and lineup.  If you ask  me to be honest we're in trouble if we get injuries to our d or c, we just don't have the depth like we do on the wings. 

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51 minutes ago, Habsfan89 said:

Well with Drouin back I would think they would put him back with Suzuki so lines could be 

 

Drouin  / Suzuki  / Caufeild 

Hoffman  / Kotkaniemi  / Anderson 

Toffoli  / Evans  / Gallagher 

Lehkonen  /  Paquette  / Armia 

 

Ex Poehling , Perreault 

 

Edmundson  / Petry 

Romanov  / Savard 

Chiarot  / Wideman 

 

Ex Kulak 

 

Price 

Allan 

 

That could be Our opening day lines and lineup.  If you ask  me to be honest we're in trouble if we get injuries to our d or c, we just don't have the depth like we do on the wings. 

Perrault, Poehling, Vejdemo, Belzile, Byron (in January?) and even Drouin can fill in at centre.

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2 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

Any team that requires him to be a reliable player, let alone a reliable #2 C (!!) is just a bad team.

 

I'm hoping he's nowhere near the top six to start the season (C or W).  With everything that happened last season, he can't be relied on in any sort of meaningful capacity.  If he actually is ready to return and can contribute, he's someone that they could live with down the middle for a game or two if injuries struck but I agree, they can't rely on him at centre for any extended stretch.

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8 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

Perrault, Poehling, Vejdemo, Belzile, Byron (in January?) and even Drouin can fill in at centre.

And if you think that's good enough to make the playoffs then you better think again.

 

Toronto 

Tampa 

Pittsburgh 

Washington 

Florida 

Boston 

Carolina 

NYI 

 

With our lineup it's going to be hard to make the playoffs if we don't improve at center and D. 

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16 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

Perrault, Poehling, Vejdemo, Belzile, Byron (in January?) and even Drouin can fill in at centre.

All of those options are garbage as anything other than temporary fill-ins for a few games. And right now we have a guy who has 62 points in 172 NHL games, and who has played himself out of the lineup over both of the last two seasons, replacing Phil Danault. A whole lot will need to go right for the Habs' C situation to be successful this year. That's not good planning, it's cross-your-fingers stuff.

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the fillers we have at centre are ok for a few games, but it is not garbage, more like AHL depth. Not good enough for a cup contending team, but Habs have the salary cap room to trade for a 40-50 point 50FO% centre

 

21 minutes ago, Habsfan89 said:

And if you think that's good enough to make the playoffs then you better think again.

 

Toronto 

Tampa 

Pittsburgh 

Washington 

Florida 

Boston 

Carolina 

NYI 

 

With our lineup it's going to be hard to make the playoffs if we don't improve at center and D. 

 

20 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

All of those options are garbage as anything other than temporary fill-ins for a few games. And right now we have a guy who has 62 points in 172 NHL games, and who has played himself out of the lineup over both of the last two seasons, replacing Phil Danault. A whole lot will need to go right for the Habs' C situation to be successful this year. That's not good planning, it's cross-your-fingers stuff.

 

Not how it is:

1. Suzuki replaces Danault as the 1C more than adequately

2. Habs have a hole at 2C

3. Kotkaniemi is a solid 3C that can fill-in at 2C to start the season

4. Evans is a solid 4C that can fill in at 3C to start the season

5. Paquette/Perrault can play 4C

 

is up-to Poehling to grab the opportunity at centre

 

====

I think the Habs will trade for a 3C near the end of training camp to address that need

 

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11 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

the fillers we have at centre are ok for a few games, but it is not garbage, more like AHL depth. Not good enough for a cup contending team, but Habs have the salary cap room to trade for a 40-50 point 50FO% centre

 

 

 

Not how it is:

1. Suzuki replaces Danault as the 1C more than adequately

2. Habs have a hole at 2C

3. Kotkaniemi is a solid 3C that can fill-in at 2C to start the season

4. Evans is a solid 4C that can fill in at 3C to start the season

5. Paquette/Perrault can play 4C

 

is up-to Poehling to grab the opportunity at centre

 

====

I think the Habs will trade for a 3C near the end of training camp to address that need

 

 

"How it is" is that the Habs do not have a #2C. That means KK is the #2C. That's no good. Now, if they fill the hole, then great. But right now, it's just stink-o down the middle.

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1 hour ago, alfredoh2009 said:

...  but Habs have the salary cap room to trade for a 40-50 point 50FO% centre...

Not certain how much cap space the Habs actually have ... LTIR is complicated

 

The Habs current roster, per CapFriendly, totals $83.77637M, not accounting for KK ... someone has to go on LTIR when the season opens ... but as I understand it (and I beg for correction if I am wrong) the LTIR overage is not the full salary of the LTIR player ... rather it is the amount needed for the team to be cap compliant when the player is placed on LTIR ... for example ... Habs are currently at $83.77636 so if Weber starts the season on LTIR, $5.58078 of Weber's salary remains on the cap (i.e., taking them to $81.5) and the $2.27636 that doesn't fit under the cap is the LTIR overage ... if/when KK signs this AAV adds to the total cap-hit so less of Weber's AAV remains on the cap and more goes onto LTIR overage ... but no new free cap space is created.

 

Byron is complicated ... they could put his $3.$M on LTIR but when he is healthy the full amount goes back on the cap ... currently, to best manage the cap Byron may be the one that starts on LTIR and Weber starts on the cap ... that would allow MB time to acquire a centre before putting Weber on LTIR, or put Shea on LTIR to make room when Byron returns.

 

BTW - Poehling or other AHLers/rookies making the team will have little impact as they will replace low-end AAV players ... in fact, assuming Poehling re-signs, he may increase the cap total as the likely players to be waived (Paquette and Perreault, unlikely but potentially Evans) may well have lower AAVs.

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1 minute ago, alfredoh2009 said:

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Cap becomes issue when Byron returns.

As I pointed out above, I do not believe that cap relief is as simple as the total AAV of the contract(s) placed on LTIR ... even if it is, the cap space by that calculation would really be about $1.7M as it will be incredibly difficult to clear $3.4M of cap space when Byron returns ... be it trading Byron or someone else ... and only $1.125M of Byrons's contract can be buried in the AHL.

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1 minute ago, GHT120 said:

As I pointed out above, I do not believe that cap relief is as simple as the total AAV of the contract(s) placed on LTIR ... even if it is, the cap space by that calculation would really be about $1.7M as it will be incredibly difficult to clear $3.4M of cap space when Byron returns ... be it trading Byron or someone else ... and only $1.125M of Byrons's contract can be buried in the AHL.

that is why I believe a trade is coming.

 

Kulak, Ylonen and a 3rd for a 3C if KK plays well

 

Kulak, Ylonen, Mailloux and a 2nd if KK sucks

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3 hours ago, alfredoh2009 said:

that is why I believe a trade is coming.

 

Kulak, Ylonen and a 3rd for a 3C if KK plays well

 

Kulak, Ylonen, Mailloux and a 2nd if KK sucks

 

You're not getting a good 3C for less than $2M on the cap and that's all the money you're sending out in the trade.

 

If the Habs go to the LTIR ceiling with Weber's deal, they won't go past that with Byron.  If they LTIR Byron, it will be to afford a recall, nothing more.  Otherwise, it's really risky.

 

I get the idea of trading Kulak in your scenario but what if there are defensive injuries to the point where they have to keep him?  What if Kulak himself is injured?  A GM can't box himself into that type of corner needing a hypothetical trade of a specific player midseason to get back to cap compliance.  If that player can't be traded or plays a position they can't trade from, then what? 

 

If the Habs look to add, it will be someone at a level that spends to Weber's ceiling but even that doesn't afford them any wiggle room.  As a result, it may already be a case of money in, money out where they'd need to basically match salary to make a deal happen.

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4 hours ago, dlbalr said:

 

You're not getting a good 3C for less than $2M on the cap and that's all the money you're sending out in the trade.

 

If the Habs go to the LTIR ceiling with Weber's deal, they won't go past that with Byron.  If they LTIR Byron, it will be to afford a recall, nothing more.  Otherwise, it's really risky.

 

I get the idea of trading Kulak in your scenario but what if there are defensive injuries to the point where they have to keep him?  What if Kulak himself is injured?  A GM can't box himself into that type of corner needing a hypothetical trade of a specific player midseason to get back to cap compliance.  If that player can't be traded or plays a position they can't trade from, then what? 

 

If the Habs look to add, it will be someone at a level that spends to Weber's ceiling but even that doesn't afford them any wiggle room.  As a result, it may already be a case of money in, money out where they'd need to basically match salary to make a deal happen.

@dlbalr, you know way more than me the ins and outs of the salary cap, I am more than happy to concede on the point that Weber's LITR and burying part of Byron's salary; yes, I was counting on Kulak's money going out plus Weber's LITR to make room for a 3C coming back. Ylonen, picks and prospects to make it palatable. Lehkonen may also be a trade chip, but only if the fit is right for the other team.

 

I would take the risk of trading Kulak if it is to get a veteran centre. MB has been able to get bottom pair Ds when needed and on a cheap contracts. Ouellet and  Brook should be able to play "Gustafsson-like minutes" if needed; probably more.

 

The alternative is to accept to be a bubble team this season and to hope other teams falter

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No way TT is a LW3! Drouin deserves no better than LW3 to start the season. He must prove himself.

 

I think the 21/22 wingers are pretty set, with Toffoli/ColeC, Hoffman/JoshA, Drouin/Gally, and AL/JoelA.

 

After Suzuki on the top line, the three center ice spots are still wide open amongst 5 guys... KK, Poehling, Evans, Paquette, Vejdemo and maybe Perrault.

 

I'd expect no trades until camp as they wait to see who really wants the #2 Center spot. Somebody has got to step up and I hope its Poehling. 

 

On D, Savard should work well with Romanov who has to elevate to #2LD. Edmundson/ Petry is the top pair. Chariot will be a good match with Wideman as 3rd pair but I really hope Brook steps up to take that spot. Kulak is #7D and probably trade bait after camp.

 

Goaltending is in very good hands with Primeau a very good 3rd option, if needed, but he should be the workhorse at the AHL level. His time is coming!

 

This team has the potential to out perform last years team and hopefully the players come back in great shape and very motivated. Gally will be the Captain and well deserved. Suzuki will wear the A with Petry.

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9 hours ago, alfredoh2009 said:

The alternative is to accept to be a bubble team this season and to hope other teams falter

Or start season as is and just play it by ear.

We all know that the October roster wont look the same as the April one.

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1 hour ago, DON said:

Or start season as is and just play it by ear.

We all know that the October roster wont look the same as the April one.

 

“Wait and see” is definitely where we are right now. Heck, MB has probably taken some well-deserved time off. 

 

I can well see the Habs being attracted to the idea of going into the season with this lineup, seeing how the kids do. The problem with this strategy is that if it doesn’t work, then you are desperate and everyone knows you are desperate. At least at this point MB can maintain a pretence of “believing in his young players.” So from a bargaining position, it may be better to strengthen C now (I still like the Bozak idea as a patchwork tactic) rather than have to negotiate from the back foot later.

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57 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

“Wait and see” is definitely where we are right now. Heck, MB has probably taken some well-deserved time off. 

 

I can well see the Habs being attracted to the idea of going into the season with this lineup, seeing how the kids do. The problem with this strategy is that if it doesn’t work, then you are desperate and everyone knows you are desperate. At least at this point MB can maintain a pretence of “believing in his young players.” So from a bargaining position, it may be better to strengthen C now (I still like the Bozak idea as a patchwork tactic) rather than have to negotiate from the back foot later.

 

isn't Bozak very old and less effective than Staal was last year?

Bozak: 31Games  5g12a17pts 56.8FO%

Staal:   53Games 5g8a13pts 49FO%

 

why not Staal instead? He was better

 

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Are we underestimating Perreault through all of this?

 

The NHL lists Hoffman as a centre?  Don't think he has played there for a while.....

 

But could we end up with something like this?

 

Toffoli   Suzuki    Caufield

 

Drouin   Hoffman    Gallagher

 

Perreault   KK     Anderson

 

Lehkonen    Evans   Armia

 

Paquette

Byron (injured)

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4 hours ago, DON said:

Or start season as is and just play it by ear.

We all know that the October roster wont look the same as the April one.

The question is whether the trades will add players or picks/prospects.

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2 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

What are you talking about? Bozak's numbers are vastly better on a PPG basis and in terms of FO%.

Really? the two years before

BOZAK:

2018-2019 72 games 13g25a38pts 54.3FO%

2019-2020 67 games 13g16a29pts 55.0FO%

 

E.STAAL:

2018-2019 81 games 22g30a52pts 51.1FO%

2019-2020 66 games 19g28a47pts 49.5FO%

 

:blink: I am missing something here? :spamafote:

 

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