tomh009 Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 3 hours ago, Commandant said: Despite the "some level of success" he hasn't even been tried there once this year, not in training camp, or when Dach was struggling and moved to wing, or any other time.... to me that's evidence of what MSL thinks of him at Centre and I think the chances of going into next season with him as the third line centre are slim to none. And that's basically what I said, too. Am not arguing with that conclusion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butterface Posted January 13 Author Share Posted January 13 5 hours ago, Commandant said: I don't think they go into a season with Newhook as the 3C. If Evans isn't back they will acquire a centre. They seem him as an emergency option and not a full time one, even for 1 season based on their actions. IMO of course. So with and without Evans you are thinking….. Suzuki, Dach, Beck or Kapanen, Evans Suzuki, Dach, Beck or Kapanen, new guy Keep Newhook on the wing for Beck or Kapanen next year ? Other options with no Evans: Sign Dvorak for less ? Sign UFA Gourde short term ? sign another UFA centre ? Trade for a centre with term in correct age bracket ? See how 2|3 of Kapanen, Beck and Newhook do with 3C and 4C ? Dangle Newhook and a sweetener for new guy (preferably a lefty)…. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 3 hours ago, Butterface said: So with and without Evans you are thinking….. Suzuki, Dach, Beck or Kapanen, Evans Suzuki, Dach, Beck or Kapanen, new guy Keep Newhook on the wing for Beck or Kapanen next year ? Other options with no Evans: Sign Dvorak for less ? Sign UFA Gourde short term ? sign another UFA centre ? Trade for a centre with term in correct age bracket ? See how 2|3 of Kapanen, Beck and Newhook do with 3C and 4C ? Dangle Newhook and a sweetener for new guy (preferably a lefty)…. There are always vet centres who can kill penalties and play defensive minutes in free agency. My priority would be to sign Evans, but if he gets too expensive I'm casting a wide net on who to sign. I'm not 100% on any of these but if I was GM I'd be digging deeper on scouting the following. Mikael Granlund Vlad Namestnikov Sam Steel Jack Roslovic Brock Nelson Alex Kerfoot Trent Frederic Luke Kunin Maybe more.... Then I'd see the trade market. See its about not being rigid and having options.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butterface Posted January 14 Author Share Posted January 14 43 minutes ago, Commandant said: See its about not being rigid and having options... This is too funny. It makes no sense. Please articulate where rigidity comes into play. The spreadsheet with the names on it are all players under the Habs control who are on the team or reasonably close to making the team. Players pencilled in past their contract end dates and even players that are still under contract can be removed and someone else can be written in. I am open to trades. I can even see what the trade looks like by putting them on the spreadsheet. For instance, we can see what the team would look like with Trent Frederic and no Evans. Give me a term and contract amount and we can see where the cap issues come up…. But until trades happen or players are signed the base spreadsheet is made up of players under our control. I said in the first bunch of posts in this thread, I am only going to be working with the players under contract until they no longer are under contract. But I am fine with looking at how they’d look on the spreadsheet if we did trade for them. Just ask. Because things are written down or on a spreadsheet doesn’t make something rigid. If you think my ideas on how I’d manage the team are rigid… I don’t think so. I’m already beginning to adapt to our new altitude in the standings as far as the draft is concerned. I’ve changed $$ outcomes on the spreadsheet sheet for future drafted players. I’m looking at issues in 2026-27 with centres and roster spots. Everything I do is very adaptable and hardly rigid. It’s actually quite the opposite. So try a new word. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 The rigidity is naming one player not on the spreadsheet. I dont think thats a good plan for free agency. Multiple targets and being able to pivot based on cost is a big thing. What if you are outbid on gourde, or he simply doesnt want to play in Montreal for whatever reason? Thats why you put multiple options on the table. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomh009 Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 On 1/12/2025 at 12:51 AM, Butterface said: (Basu and Godin) discuss Evans at length to begin. They discuss losing Evans and then signing Dvorak to replace. All Evens for first 37 minutes. I like Basu and Godin a lot. But I am not agreeing with their conclusions here. They are talking about 6x$3.25M as a fair contract for Evans, which it well might be. The cost is OK, and they think the Habs would be OK with the term. But then they talk about Evans mentoring Kapanen and Beck ... for six years? Seriously? Those two, who have pretty good odds for being solid 3C/4C (or better), surely cannot be held back for another six years. And that's the primary reason why I think any Evans contract should be 3-4 years max. Of course I'm not Hughes. 😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butterface Posted January 14 Author Share Posted January 14 56 minutes ago, Commandant said: The rigidity is naming one player not on the spreadsheet. I dont think thats a good plan for free agency. Multiple targets and being able to pivot based on cost is a big thing. What if you are outbid on gourde, or he simply doesnt want to play in Montreal for whatever reason? Thats why you put multiple options on the table. Oh.. I gave him as an example… not as the only one on the market… hence “new guy” and “another UFA centre”…. I did not bother to do any kind of market analysis. Gourde was just the only one I had heard about while reading various news articles. I did look up your suggestions and yeah, there are some potentials there. Thank you. I liked some takes on things between 50th and 60th minute. Trade talk of Evans and Savard 67th minute to 74th minute. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butterface Posted January 14 Author Share Posted January 14 19 minutes ago, tomh009 said: I like Basu and Godin a lot. But I am not agreeing with their conclusions here. They are talking about 6x$3.25M as a fair contract for Evans, which it well might be. The cost is OK, and they think the Habs would be OK with the term. But then they talk about Evans mentoring Kapanen and Beck ... for six years? Seriously? Those two, who have pretty good odds for being solid 3C/4C (or better), surely cannot be held back for another six years. And that's the primary reason why I think any Evans contract should be 3-4 years max. Of course I'm not Hughes. 😂 Yes a contract that long takes on a lot of risk, but at least the dollar amount is low. 3-5 years is where I’d like to be. An overpay for a 3 year… is okay. If it’s five at 3.5M, I can live with that. I think that is a tradable contract 4-5 years from now based on the higher salary cap expectations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butterface Posted January 14 Author Share Posted January 14 From 22:45 minute mark to 29:45 minute mark they talk about centre depth. From 31:20 to 43:00 they talk trades and salary cap. From 53:00 to 59:00 I thought was interesting too. Definitely think we need to move Gally or Anderson before the last year of their contract to make room for a prospect. Those segments I thought were good. Gosse and Poirier are an entertaining vlog to listen to…. Don’t like their attention grabbing headlines, but I suppose they are needed to get eyes. Basu and Godin are a bit dry to watch/listen. They give good insight though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butterface Posted January 14 Author Share Posted January 14 Article addressing what we have to work with…. And potential Lefty Centres. Paragraph from article below: https://thesickpodcast.com/dilemmas-at-center-canadiens-balancing-act/ Off-Season Options Looking ahead, the Canadiens’ center depth already includes Suzuki and Dach as right-handed options, with Kapanen also a right-shot center. Adding a veteran left-handed center for short-term stability could make sense. Michael Hage, another very promising young prospect, is also right-handed but will most likely stay in the NCAA for one more season. Here is a list of current left-handed centers who are pending UFAs. While some may re-sign with their current teams, this list highlights the available options: Mikael Granlund (SJS) John Tavares (TOR) Sam Bennett (FLA) Brock Nelson (NYI) Yanni Gourde (SEA) Alex Kerfoot (UTA) Jesper Boqvist (FLA) Zach Aston-Reese (CBJ) Christian Dvorak (MTL) Nico Sturm (SJS) Justin Kirkland (CGY) Sean Kuraly (CBJ) Lars Eller (WAS) Radek Faksa (STL) Kevin Rooney (CGY) Tomas Nosek (FLA) Justin Dowling (NJD) Tyson Jost (CAR) While no single solution is clear-cut, Hughes’ ability to navigate these challenges will be pivotal as he works to shape the Canadiens’ future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habsfan89 Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 6 minutes ago, Butterface said: Article addressing what we have to work with…. And potential Lefty Centres. Paragraph from article below: https://thesickpodcast.com/dilemmas-at-center-canadiens-balancing-act/ Off-Season Options Looking ahead, the Canadiens’ center depth already includes Suzuki and Dach as right-handed options, with Kapanen also a right-shot center. Adding a veteran left-handed center for short-term stability could make sense. Michael Hage, another very promising young prospect, is also right-handed but will most likely stay in the NCAA for one more season. Here is a list of current left-handed centers who are pending UFAs. While some may re-sign with their current teams, this list highlights the available options: Mikael Granlund (SJS) John Tavares (TOR) Sam Bennett (FLA) Brock Nelson (NYI) Yanni Gourde (SEA) Alex Kerfoot (UTA) Jesper Boqvist (FLA) Zach Aston-Reese (CBJ) Christian Dvorak (MTL) Nico Sturm (SJS) Justin Kirkland (CGY) Sean Kuraly (CBJ) Lars Eller (WAS) Radek Faksa (STL) Kevin Rooney (CGY) Tomas Nosek (FLA) Justin Dowling (NJD) Tyson Jost (CAR) While no single solution is clear-cut, Hughes’ ability to navigate these challenges will be pivotal as he works to shape the Canadiens’ future. Habs finally have the ability to pull off a blockbuster trade. With this run we’re on we can put up our 1st round pick plus Calgary Flames 1st round pick . We also finally have the type of blue chip prospects that teams would want in a trade. We don’t need to look at UFA’s if nothing is there. This has been hands down the best rebuild that the habs have ever done in team history. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butterface Posted January 14 Author Share Posted January 14 Eric Engels answers a bunch of various questions here. Worth the read: https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article/canadiens-mailbag-what-will-it-take-to-sign-jake-evans/ Including: I checked in with the Canadiens. They say, “Reinbacher has resumed skating, but without equipment.” I say the Canadiens and Evans end up compromising on a four-year, $14-million contract before the trade deadline. (3.5M AAV) Things were said about Savard and Armia and Dvorak… depending where we are in standings… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butterface Posted January 14 Author Share Posted January 14 22 minutes ago, Habsfan89 said: We don’t need to look at UFA’s if nothing is there. This has been hands down the best rebuild that the habs have ever done in team history. There are some decent UFA guys on that lefty list and a few righties on Commandants list that aren’t nothing. And yes, as Gosse and Poirier said in the video above (36:30-37:00 mark), we have a “perfect storm” of picks, prospects and young players that we can make available to bring in elite talent. This complete tear down was something that needed to be done. You are probably right, it could be the best rebuild in team history. We are enviably deep with talent. Lots of pitfalls still to avoid yet. I think Hughes and Gorton have it under control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habsfan89 Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 43 minutes ago, Butterface said: There are some decent UFA guys on that lefty list and a few righties on Commandants list that aren’t nothing. And yes, as Gosse and Poirier said in the video above (36:30-37:00 mark), we have a “perfect storm” of picks, prospects and young players that we can make available to bring in elite talent. This complete tear down was something that needed to be done. You are probably right, it could be the best rebuild in team history. We are enviably deep with talent. Lots of pitfalls still to avoid yet. I think Hughes and Gorton have it under control. Yeah I just ment we don’t need to over pay for someone in free agency like we have done in the past. That’s no longer are only options to improve the team. This team is going to be fun to watch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butterface Posted January 14 Author Share Posted January 14 1 hour ago, Habsfan89 said: Yeah I just ment we don’t need to over pay for someone in free agency like we have done in the past. That’s no longer are only options to improve the team. This team is going to be fun to watch. I agree, but overpaying is what Canadian teams have to do to compete with lower taxes in the USA. So no matter what, we overpay. But at least by signing UFAs we can save our draft picks and player/prospect portfolio for trades or development. I expect we’ll lose some amazing talent over the next 3-6 years as we mould the team into a contender. It is fun to watch Hutson. Imagine Demidov next year. Hage the following year (if we can make room for him on NHL roster). Might be some bumps or slight regression as these young players take over from outgoing vets. Hughes is aware of this, but if Demidov gets to 70 points or more next year we will be rocking ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 We are talking about a bottom six centre. There is not going to be a huge overpay. Heck it might not even be an overpay at all. Its supply and demand, there isn't going to be a bidding war for all the guys I listed. This isn't like saying, lets sign Mikko Rantanen, where you are going to see a number of teams involved (if he even hits free agency) and its going to take a huge contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huzer Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 Tis a lot of ink spilled on Jake Evans. The same folks complaining about Armia's and Dvo's salary today will be doing the same thing in 3 years when Evans is 32, wondering why we're paying 3.5-4M for a 4th liner (not saying he's 4th line today, but probably where he would be in 3-4 years based on how the team would hope their prospects pan out). Ultimately though, if he re-signs, cool. If not, ok. 4 hours ago, Habsfan89 said: Yeah I just ment we don’t need to over pay for someone in free agency like we have done in the past. That’s no longer are only options to improve the team. This team is going to be fun to watch. Most of the overpays have been on contract extensions, not on free agents. Gally, Anderson, Price, Subban, Petry, etc were all self inflicted wounds. Prob the worst "recent" singing would be Alzner, but that was what, 7-8 years ago? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 7 hours ago, Butterface said: There are some decent UFA guys on that lefty list and a few righties on Commandants list that aren’t nothing. And yes, as Gosse and Poirier said in the video above (36:30-37:00 mark), we have a “perfect storm” of picks, prospects and young players that we can make available to bring in elite talent. This complete tear down was something that needed to be done. You are probably right, it could be the best rebuild in team history. We are enviably deep with talent. Lots of pitfalls still to avoid yet. I think Hughes and Gorton have it under control. The big point they bring up is needing a lefty. Dvorak is the only lefty on the team. Even Beck and Kapanen are both righties. One of the reasons (Along with being the best faceoff guy on the roster) that Dvorak takes so many faceoffs is that he's the best option when the draw is in the left circle on the defensive end of the ice. I think we are likely to pick up a lefty centre when Dvorak leaves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butterface Posted January 15 Author Share Posted January 15 Apron Basu said he would give his reasons why he thought Newhook could be a centre next year in a future podcast … likely is his first reason is Newhook is a lefty. Hage is a Righty. Demidov, who likes to play centre, is a lefty. But yeah, given all the bottom 6 UFA centre options who are lefties… might be good to find a full-time lefty centre. Could cause a musical chair next year… or more AHL time for waiver-eligible players. If they sign Evans and also replace Dvorak with a lefty centre who has a few dollars to his contract, they may have to have a contract leave the fold next year… (looking at Newhook) … or they could trade out the Price contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 8 hours ago, Butterface said: ... I expect we’ll lose some amazing talent over the next 3-6 years as we mould the team into a contender. Habs top 10 scorers 6 years ago. Why it just seems so silly to; worry about, think about, or plan for a roster 6 years from now. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomh009 Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 15 minutes ago, Butterface said: If they sign Evans and also replace Dvorak with a lefty centre who has a few dollars to his contract, they may have to have a contract leave the fold next year… (looking at Newhook) … or they could trade out the Price contract. Not just that. Look at the roster (forwards only): Remove: -Dvorak -Armia Add: +Demidov +UFA-centre That means only a single young bottom-six forward fits onto the roster next year. Heineman, Beck, Kapanen, Roy will be fighting for that single spot. If you manage to sign the UFA for a single year, you'd be able to add a second young forward for 2026-27 but at that point Hage will be knocking on the door, too. Gallagher and Anderson will expire in 2027, and Evans well beyond that. Something has to give as the kids won't be waiver-exempt for ever, either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xXx..CK..xXx Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 4 hours ago, huzer said: Tis a lot of ink spilled on Jake Evans. The same folks complaining about Armia's and Dvo's salary today will be doing the same thing in 3 years when Evans is 32, wondering why we're paying 3.5-4M for a 4th liner (not saying he's 4th line today, but probably where he would be in 3-4 years based on how the team would hope their prospects pan out). Ultimately though, if he re-signs, cool. If not, ok. It is what it is. I wasn’t the hugest Jake Evans fan prior to this year, which is exactly the argument people will make to state that this year is an outlier and that we shouldn’t mind if he walks or we trade him for a draft pick as an expiring contract. With that being said, currently he is the best 4th line centre in the league, (if there’s one or two others, fine) and would be one of the best 3rd liners in the league. He is a hard worker, a smart veteran player, one of the best on the PK and as I’ve said once before, he is very focused and engaged during the team meetings. This shows that he wants to continue to improve and the coaches know they can rely on him. As I have been doing the game threads recently and posting the lineups, it has become clear that we have some of the best depth in the league right now and that very reason is the reason that the Habs could potentially have more success than other teams and people realize. Even the top teams in the league have some unrecognizable or rarely heard of names on their 3rd or 4th lines. Prior to writing the list, I will admit that probably not everyone has heard of Heineman, but we have Gallagher, Anderson, Dvorak, Armia and Evans in our bottom 6. I would bet Winnipeg fans could tell you who Jake Evans is (Empty net Scheifele), and Armia coincidentally played for them. But the point is that those are our most “unrecognizable” names. Most people don’t want us to trade for a player like Pettersson because of his double digit cap hit. However at the same time, they state that we should trade our veteran depth for picks or futures. At one point, the team is going to have to either get someone like Pettersson and pay the monetary price, or at least keep our veteran depth. One perspective is that there is a lot of ink about Jake Evans, the other is that it would be ridiculous to let him go because of a 500k cap hit difference, especially when the cap tends to increase. We’ll see how things go but I am fine with Jake evans at the price listed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butterface Posted January 15 Author Share Posted January 15 7 minutes ago, tomh009 said: Not just that. Look at the roster (forwards only): Remove: -Dvorak -Armia Add: +Demidov +UFA-centre That means only a single young bottom-six forward fits onto the roster next year. Heineman, Beck, Kapanen, Roy will be fighting for that single spot. If you manage to sign the UFA for a single year, you'd be able to add a second young forward for 2026-27 but at that point Hage will be knocking on the door, too. Gallagher and Anderson will expire in 2027, and Evans well beyond that. Something has to give as the kids won't be waiver-exempt for ever, either. Very true… Pez leaves too, but you’re now talking who sits as well. Lots on Hughes’ plate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 13 minutes ago, Butterface said: Very true… Pez leaves too, but you’re now talking who sits as well. Lots on Hughes’ plate. There would be more rotation amongst the 12th and 13th forwards if its a youngster. I also think that the 13th, 14th and even 15th forwards in our system will play more than the same spots have played in the first half of this season. This team has been unusually healthy.... and moving Beck and Kapanen up slowly, with both AHL and NHL time next year wouldn't be a bad thing. In the meantime, if you could find an Anderson trade, that would be ideal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butterface Posted January 15 Author Share Posted January 15 5 minutes ago, Commandant said: In the meantime, if you could find an Anderson trade, that would be ideal. Yeah, there was a report saying a team was considering taking him off our hands over the next two seasons. I thought moving him out in the last year of his contract could be done, surprised someone had interest to take him for both seasons. No idea if that is with retention… I assume so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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