DON Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 1 hour ago, Commandant said: The problem I see, is that we don't attribute being trapped in the zone for long periods of time as "playing poorly" when we really should. If a puck doesn't go in the net, and the defenceman throws a few hits and blocks a few shots, we think its fine. But the lack of puck movement on those shifts and the inability to retrieve a loose puck and get it out of the zone should be a red flag. It's a huge failure of most people when evaluating the game. Those happened to him against both Buffalo and Ottawa. Did you think that Pateryn - Beaulieu pair had a good night last night? Cause the reality is that they were terrible. Actually, terrible in hockey normally does mean giving up or causing goals against. Short of that their play may be poor or need improvement, which is pretty typical of most 3rd pairings, but not 'terrible'. But we all know you got some goofy stat you want to toss out as proof, so go ahead already lets have it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 5 hours ago, DON said: Actually, terrible in hockey normally does mean giving up or causing goals against. Short of that their play may be poor or need improvement, which is pretty typical of most 3rd pairings, but not 'terrible'. But we all know you got some goofy stat you want to toss out as proof, so go ahead already lets have it. So if a defenceman is playing badly and giving up scoring chances but Carey Price is saving his ass, he is not a terrible defenceman because he's not causing goals against. But if a defenceman is on the ice, and Vesa Toskala gives up the goal from the opposing end of the ice, he was on the ice for the goal against so that must mean he made a bad play. And you call my stat goofy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 23 minutes ago, Commandant said: 23 minutes ago, Commandant said: So if a defenceman is playing badly and giving up scoring chances but Carey Price is saving his ass, he is not a terrible defenceman because he's not causing goals against. But if a defenceman is on the ice, and Vesa Toskala gives up the goal from the opposing end of the ice, he was on the ice for the goal against so that must mean he made a bad play. And you call my stat goofy? That is a different way to look at it. Your stat? Which is yours? "are you showing that those stats are basically meaningless.", I actually asked a question about "your' stats. But, goofy may seemingly be apt in that case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 There are a number of stats I look at. there is never one stat. its a wholistic approach to corsi, high danger scoring chances, zone starts, fenwick, etc... etc.... its certainly a lot more than simple goals for and goals against which are very small sample sizes and are greatly influenced by the quality of goaltending. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 29 minutes ago, Commandant said: There are a number of stats I look at. there is never one stat. its a wholistic approach to corsi, high danger scoring chances, zone starts, fenwick, etc... etc.... its certainly a lot more than simple goals for and goals against which are very small sample sizes and are greatly influenced by the quality of goaltending. OMG it is becoming a cult. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCHabnut Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 Why are there three of these threads? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeLassister Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 7 hours ago, Jeff Price (no relation) said: Thursday night against Arizona, Weber was amazing. And yet the advanced stats junkies panned him. The basic reason is that great defensive play results in bad advanced stats numbers. And yet no team has ever succeeded without some great, defense-first minded players. Weber has an advantage of being one of those types of players and still putting up lots of goals and assists. No. Great defensive plays result in the defensive player retrieving the puck and getting it out of the zone quickly. At best, what results in bad advanced stats numbers are average or good defensive plays where the dman does his job but the puck stays in the zone. Sometimes, you're covering someone else's bad play that led to a scoring chance, but sometimes, you're only covering your own mistake. With that being said. I enjoy Weber a lot. Just like I enjoyed a lot a former showoff player. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xXx..CK..xXx Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 I'm being honest when I say Weber has so far exceeded my expectations. I only hope he can keep it up but also have no doubts that he will. Radulov has also been very good so far early in the season and I love the chemistry the two seem to already have from their days together in Nashville. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 2 hours ago, Commandant said: So if a defenceman is playing badly and giving up scoring chances but Carey Price is saving his ass, he is not a terrible defenceman because he's not causing goals against. But if a defenceman is on the ice, and Vesa Toskala gives up the goal from the opposing end of the ice, he was on the ice for the goal against so that must mean he made a bad play. And you call my stat goofy? Then why did the coach have nothing but praise for Beaulieu's last game? And which plays were "terrible"? And Pateryn also played terrible? GOTTA ask...did you actually watch the friggin game? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 Their inability to clear the puck out of their own end for several long stretches, made for a terrible game by the pairing.... Repeatedly allowing the other team to cycle, maintain possession and get shots (and more importantly high danger scoring chances), is bad defensive play. The fact that Price saved their bacon, doesn't mean they didn't get worked by Philly's forwards on more than a few occasions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IN THE HEARTS OF MEN Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 WoW... he's golden right now to start this season.... and seems to elevate everyone he's paired with.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbhatt Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 He is producing on the regular for the team...I will be very happy if he maintains this level of play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illWill Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 11 hours ago, sbhatt said: He is producing on the regular for the team...I will be very happy if he maintains this level of play. If he maintains this level of play he will be nominated for the Hart. Surely a dip in production and effectiveness is to be expected, so keep that in mind Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 On 2016-10-25 at 0:27 PM, Commandant said: 5 minutes ago, illWill said: If he maintains this level of play he will be nominated for the Hart. Surely a dip in production and effectiveness is to be expected, so keep that in mind Why would you say that, he is only on pace for 105pts and to be +140...that's doable isn't it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Price (no relation) Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 36 minutes ago, DON said: Why would you say that, he is only on pace for 105pts and to be +140...that's doable isn't it. Don't forget the 35 goals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMMR Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 On 25/10/2016 at 4:39 PM, BCHabnut said: Why are there three of these threads? Which are the other 2? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCHabnut Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 25 minutes ago, JMMR said: Which are the other 2? The weber trade sulk thread and the subban traded for weber thread. All identical conversations in each. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMMR Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 The two trades ones for sure are comparable, but an appreciation thread is a different animal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMMR Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 Should I close the Subban trade thread? Or merge the two? What are people feeling? ( I have not been around much so not even sure I should or am able to make decisions like this) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illWill Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 8 minutes ago, JMMR said: Should I close the Subban trade thread? Or merge the two? What are people feeling? ( I have not been around much so not even sure I should or am able to make decisions like this) I think the sulking thread and the initial trade thread can be merged for sure. The appreciation thread should be separate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 6 hours ago, JMMR said: Should I close the Subban trade thread? Or merge the two? What are people feeling? ( I have not been around much so not even sure I should or am able to make decisions like this) Yes please, close down trade thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCHabnut Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 I would merge the sulk and trade thread. Same theme. Ol Weber got hemmed in quite a bit today. The whole team did, but against this team speed, I reckon the other guy would been good. Gotta skate the puck out sometimes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 11 hours ago, BCHabnut said: I would merge the sulk and trade thread. Same theme. Ol Weber got hemmed in quite a bit today. The whole team did, but against this team speed, I reckon the other guy would been good. Gotta skate the puck out sometimes. I couldn't watch the game, but that WAS one of my concerns - how the reconfigured D would do against fast teams like TB, especially in a playoff series. With Price in net, though, it may not matter that much! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMMR Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 I'm a huge PK fan. But so far the Habs keep winning and PK keeps putting up the minus rating and the Predators are a below .500 hockey team. None of this may be sustainable however... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMMR Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 I can't merge no longer an Mod but I am sure someone will if you ask. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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