Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
REV-G

Bergevin......

Recommended Posts

Commandant    632
1 minute ago, ehjay said:

I don't like to brag but I have been fired from a job when I told manager; doc says I'm out a bit. Yeah sure they ain't allowed to do that but who am I gona go snitch to when my employer is a bank? I had/have an "upper body" injury, as u can probably tell I'm still seeking treatment :)

 

I have no idea what this means. 

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ehjay    16

CP is kinda lucky to get away with an answer like, i would play if is playoff game but who knows when I'm back :/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Stogey24    277
44 minutes ago, Commandant said:

 

I have no idea what this means. 

:huh:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
habsFan1986    1

I really thought our team was good going into the season. I had a feeling our D would be slow and giving up a lot of breakaways and 2 on 1s. But I thought we would be ok,  But man this team just looks bad all over the ice. It just seems to me like our team some how is built like a small market team that doesn't want to compete or spend to the cap.

 

How did we go from one goalscorer away from being a true cup contender to this sad bunch????

Edited by habsFan1986

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
sbhatt    21

I would love it if Molson grew a pair and fired him...right in the middle of the GM meetings this weekend.  Don't just throw him out the door...spit on him on the way out for the mess he has created.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
hab29RETIRED    175
4 hours ago, sbhatt said:

I would love it if Molson grew a pair and fired him...right in the middle of the GM meetings this weekend.  Don't just throw him out the door...spit on him on the way out for the mess he has created.

I don’t think Molson can grow what will never be there - I found out all I needed to know about Molson in le’affaire cunneyworth.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
nihilz    24
On 11/15/2017 at 4:10 PM, Commandant said:

 

I have no idea what this means. 

 

On 11/15/2017 at 4:55 PM, Stogey24 said:

:huh:

 

Clearly, his upper body injury is brain related. lmao

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Trizzak    483

http://www.nhltradetracker.com/user/trade_list_by_GM/Marc_Bergevin/17/1

 

Was just looking at Bergevin's trade history, and I really can't complain with the trades he made up until June 2016 (when he appeared to have started to kinda hate his team.) Prior to that, there aren't many deals I'd consider "bad", with most of the trades either being a win or a wash. Even the headscratchers had extenuating circumstances behind them (like Kassian for Scrivens).

 

But most of those deals are best described as "tinkering." What there aren't many of are trades of long-term positive change. Prior to 2016, he made no trades of any kind of impact to the core of the team, except Petry (who was no guarantee to re-sign with the team - he was an unrestricted free agent when he was traded for.) His only real big additions have been Danault, Shaw, Weber and Drouin, all in the past 2 years.

 

I have thoughts on this, but they're percolating in my head right now... I'll swing back on this another time. But I do find it interesting that Bergevin didn't really want to change the team at all until June 2016.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
REV-G    21

Interesting comments by TSN insider Craig Button on Sunday after Saturday nights total embarrassment at the hands of the Leafs.

 

He was asked about The Canadiens and he said, "...this team has been built by their GM and it is seriously flawed....they are slow on the back end....they have 5-6 position defensemen playing in the 3-4 slot...they are relying on a 19 year old defenceman.....they are playing people out of position......square pegs in round holes....they have Jonathan Drouin playing centre and he's not a centre, although he's trying very hard". He was then asked what he would do and he said, "You have to start at the top....at the GM position...he built this team, he's responsible for it so he needs to do something. But right now this team is going nowhere fast. Don't expect anything to change with this group that the GM has assembled".

 

Unfortunately I think most of us would agree with every one of those comments.

 

So it comes back to the basic question we've already stated. Do we really want Geoff Molson to wait and let MB make more trades and spend our $8 million and trust him after what we have 5 years into his watch. Do we really have to wait until season's end and endure many more embarrassing nights? Why not start now with the changes?? 

 

A number of us [many?] said that we really liked MB's hiring at the beginning and at first he did a good job of tweaking what was already in place. But this is now his team, he's put it together and its a disaster. I'm actually shocked at how far we've fallen. I'm not shocked so much by how bad our defence is, although I honestly expected much more from Petry, Benn and Alzner, but I did expect that to be the weak part of our team, but overall, still no centers, a bad defence [worst in the league??] and many hockey commentators are saying don't expect anything different. What you're seeing is what we are. A total mess, seriously flawed. 

 

Interesting that Jack Todd today said the man to replace MB has to be Julian Brisebois. He has been learning behind the scenes for 5 years now under Steve Y in Tampa and they have build arguably the best team in the NHL right now. Todd pointed out that many very successful GM's never played the game starring with Sam Pollock.

 

What do you think? Is it time and is Julian Brisebois a good choice?   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Lou Lamoirello might end up available at the end of the season...

 

The issue of MB's replacement was discussed earlier in this thread (not that I'm opposed to revisiting it, just saying you might want to go back to around p.3). The way forward, that discussion taught me, is to fire MB so he can't do any more damage, appoint someone like Larry Carrier or Rick Dudley or even Trevor Timmins as the 'interim' GM, then conduct a proper search in the spring, when guys like BriseBois might actually be released from their current organizations, which probably won't happen in mid-season.

 

The problem with this scenario is that if you're serious about retooling, you need the interim guy to make decisions about trades, which will ramify for the new GM. My way around this would be to hire one or more 'advisors' - some accomplished, semi-retired people with excellent hockey knowledge, Scotty Bowman types - to consult independently on any proposals the new GM brings to me.  The idea is to create checks and balances preventing any disastrous moves in this interim period, while still allowing moves to be made. Just a thought.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
REV-G    21

I agree. I know we discussed possible replacements earlier. I was more bringing up the quotes from Craig Button and Todd....others are clearly seeing and stating outright that our team is seriously flawed....and I guess the emphasis or questions being...do we really have to wait until season end to make a change? 

 

The thought of having to go through the rest of the season without any changes for the future is a bit bleak...sports wise anyway. 

 

But honestly, in light of life and all the issues so many people face each day, these are really insignificant, unimportant issues!  

 

Just sports which hopefully is fun...especially if you're a Leafs fan these day! Yikes. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ehjay    16
On 11/18/2017 at 1:17 PM, nihilz said:

 

 

Clearly, his upper body injury is brain related. lmao

yup :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Commandant    632
2 hours ago, REV-G said:

Interesting comments by TSN insider Craig Button on Sunday after Saturday nights total embarrassment at the hands of the Leafs.

 

He was asked about The Canadiens and he said, "...this team has been built by their GM and it is seriously flawed....they are slow on the back end....they have 5-6 position defensemen playing in the 3-4 slot...they are relying on a 19 year old defenceman.....they are playing people out of position......square pegs in round holes....they have Jonathan Drouin playing centre and he's not a centre, although he's trying very hard". He was then asked what he would do and he said, "You have to start at the top....at the GM position...he built this team, he's responsible for it so he needs to do something. But right now this team is going nowhere fast. Don't expect anything to change with this group that the GM has assembled".

 

Unfortunately I think most of us would agree with every one of those comments.

 

So it comes back to the basic question we've already stated. Do we really want Geoff Molson to wait and let MB make more trades and spend our $8 million and trust him after what we have 5 years into his watch. Do we really have to wait until season's end and endure many more embarrassing nights? Why not start now with the changes?? 

 

A number of us [many?] said that we really liked MB's hiring at the beginning and at first he did a good job of tweaking what was already in place. But this is now his team, he's put it together and its a disaster. I'm actually shocked at how far we've fallen. I'm not shocked so much by how bad our defence is, although I honestly expected much more from Petry, Benn and Alzner, but I did expect that to be the weak part of our team, but overall, still no centers, a bad defence [worst in the league??] and many hockey commentators are saying don't expect anything different. What you're seeing is what we are. A total mess, seriously flawed. 

 

Interesting that Jack Todd today said the man to replace MB has to be Julian Brisebois. He has been learning behind the scenes for 5 years now under Steve Y in Tampa and they have build arguably the best team in the NHL right now. Todd pointed out that many very successful GM's never played the game starring with Sam Pollock.

 

What do you think? Is it time and is Julian Brisebois a good choice?   

 

Is it time? Yes

 

Is Julien Brisebois a good choice?  I don't know, but I lean no.  Its not just about never playing... the guy is a salary cap guru and yes team's need that.  I need a GM who has a good scouting eye, and he's never been a scout either. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Stogey24    277

Is there a better candidate?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Commandant    632
57 minutes ago, Stogey24 said:

Is there a better candidate?

 

There are several.  Keep in mind that the GM does 6-8 pressers a year, not 100s like a coach. The GM can be an anglo, as seen by the last round of hiring including interviews with Jim Nill. 

 

Paul Fenton

Michael Futa
Kyle Dubas

Pat Brisson
Bill Guerin

Dean Lombardi

Trevor Timmins

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Stogey24    277

Well if Molson wants to win, maybe it's time to start looking at all options. Not just a francophone 

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Toronthab    320
4 hours ago, REV-G said:

I agree. I know we discussed possible replacements earlier. I was more bringing up the quotes from Craig Button and Todd....others are clearly seeing and stating outright that our team is seriously flawed....and I guess the emphasis or questions being...do we really have to wait until season end to make a change? 

 

The thought of having to go through the rest of the season without any changes for the future is a bit bleak...sports wise anyway. 

 

But honestly, in light of life and all the issues so many people face each day, these are really insignificant, unimportant issues!  

 

Just sports which hopefully is fun...especially if you're a Leafs fan these day! Yikes. 

Boy that last line hurrrrrt! :(

 

Its not like we lost 6-0 to the Leafs on a national coast to coast broadcast on a Saturday night !!!

 

Oh..ya..

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
DON    35
4 hours ago, Stogey24 said:

Well if Molson wants to win, maybe it's time to start looking at all options. Not just a francophone 

He dosent want to win that badly, you know that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
REV-G    21
21 hours ago, Commandant said:

 

There are several.  Keep in mind that the GM does 6-8 pressers a year, not 100s like a coach. The GM can be an anglo, as seen by the last round of hiring including interviews with Jim Nill. 

 

Paul Fenton

Michael Futa
Kyle Dubas

Pat Brisson
Bill Guerin

Dean Lombardi

Trevor Timmins

Julien Brisebois's job description from Tampa's web site: BriseBois assists Steve Yzerman “in all aspects of player personnel decisions, analytics, player development, contract preparation and negotiation, as well as salary arbitration for the Lightning and the Syracuse Crunch of the American Hockey League, for whom he also serves as general manager. BriseBois also manages interpretation of the NHL’s collective bargaining agreement and the salary cap for Tampa Bay.”

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
xXx..CK..xXx    157

For me this all seems a bit silly. It's somewhat of a self centered view in that I made post after post prior to the season about how this was the first season in some time where I felt as though we truly could not compete for a Stanley Cup based on things that transpired during the off season.

 

On the other hand, I had sincerely not felt that way in any of our recent seasons where we also did not win the cup. Season after season I continued to believe when there were perhaps (what I believed to be more cynical fans) people who probably felt the same way I did this year in previous years. 

 

For me, there was simply something different about this off season than the rest.

 

Then finally, we have those who seem to have believed this team was good heading into this season. I'm seeing a lot of posts where people are inferring that line of thought, or stating it directly.

 

It seems to be for the most part, while not entirely, those people who are really going to the extreme of calling for bold trades as well as the firing of Bergevin. Although I'll concede that many of those who didn't like the team prior to the season probably already wanted Bergevin fired. 

 

From my standpoint, I still don't see it as the time for anything overly major. It's 20 games into the season and from the beginning, while I did not like our off season, I felt as though our team would always get better as the season progressed and decided that I would reserve final judgement of the team based on how our cap space was spent by the trade deadline or earlier. 

 

Now I wasn't a fan of Bergevin's off season but it seems as though there are a few things to remind ourselves of. First of all, I was the most displeased member of letting Radulov go. Prior to it happening, I knew it wouldn't. With that being said, it truly does seem like Radulov and his agent were playing hardball in that specific scenario. Markov, we'll just label that one as a mistake.

 

Next there is Price. Price was the last one anyone expected to struggle as mightily as he has. Not to mention he's already been injured for longer than anyone would have liked at any point this season. This is part of the reason for the way our season has played out and that has nothing to do with the general manager or any moves he could have made.

 

My basic point is that most people seemed to be willing to see what acquisitions would

be made during the season to improve our team. Even if they weren't willing to wait and see, it seemed to be accepted that the team would need to do something with that cap space in order to improve our chances at a successful season. Now 20 games into the season, and all of a sudden many are ready to rip Bergevin's head off because things haven't turned out how they expected. Not only that but the manager hasn't been given the opportunity to make changes during the season which many people already knew were going to be necessary for this team to have a chance.

 

Now don't get me wrong. I'm aware that there have been many vocal people who have been displeased with Bergevin for some time. My point is only that in my opinion if Bergevin were to have been fired, it should have been prior to this season. From my own standpoint, things haven't played out much differently than expected and so I can only assume that had our team played well to start the season, people would have accepted the mirage and not been calling for Bergevin's head. Jack Todd and Button should have noted that our team is "seriously flawed" prior to the season, not 20 games into it. 

 

While I understand completely why people would not trust Bergevin to rebuild this team, I personally do not think the team needs a rebuild. Trading Price, Pacioretty or Weber makes absolutely no sense to me, unless it's because elite NHL ready players are coming back the other way. Truthfully, Bergevin has demonstrated at times that he can make a decent move and every one of the hypothetical trade proposals in regard to how Bergevin "would" rebuild this team have been worse proposals than reality which already demonstrate a certain level of bias towards the guy. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Commandant    632
1 hour ago, REV-G said:

Julien Brisebois's job description from Tampa's web site: BriseBois assists Steve Yzerman “in all aspects of player personnel decisions, analytics, player development, contract preparation and negotiation, as well as salary arbitration for the Lightning and the Syracuse Crunch of the American Hockey League, for whom he also serves as general manager. BriseBois also manages interpretation of the NHL’s collective bargaining agreement and the salary cap for Tampa Bay.”

 

Ok, so the same job description you can find on 10 assistant GMs in the NHL....

 

More important to me is.... when is he scouting.  What moves is he recommending.  Where are his fingerprints on that organization. 

when articles are written about him they have mostly focused on the CBA and Salary cap expertise and not his scouting. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Stogey24    277

Look back to the novel I wrote about Brisboise and you'll see what he has done. 

 

Yzerman said himself that this will probably be the last year Tampa has Brisboise within their organization. He's going to be a g.m at some point 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
JoeLassister    287
2 hours ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

 

Then finally, we have those who seem to have believed this team was good heading into this season. I'm seeing a lot of posts where people are inferring that line of thought, or stating it directly.

 

 

 

 

On ‎2017‎-‎10‎-‎04 at 4:55 PM, xXx..CK..xXx said:

43-30-3-6 = 95 points

2nd in Atlantic

5th in East

224 Goals

 

You were certainly one of those who seemed to believe that the team was good.  Otherwise, you wouldn't have projected a 2nd place in the division and 5th place in the East...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Toronthab    320
1 hour ago, JoeLassister said:

 

You were certainly one of those who seemed to believe that the team was good.  Otherwise, you wouldn't have projected a 2nd place in the division and 5th place in the East...

One of the blessings of not knowing what I'm talking about is not daring to make predictions on the year.

 

I leave that for the brave souls out there..

 

Real guys!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Commandant    632
4 hours ago, Stogey24 said:

Look back to the novel I wrote about Brisboise and you'll see what he has done. 

 

Yzerman said himself that this will probably be the last year Tampa has Brisboise within their organization. He's going to be a g.m at some point 

 

The novel about him being a GM of an AHL team?

 

Again, thats a paperwork job.  Its not trades.  its not a lot of signings (maybe a coupld AHL only deals at the bottom of the roster)... but i'd rather have an OHL GM experience over a guy whose role is AHL GM. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

Sign in to follow this  

×