What do you think of Marc Bergevin

[alfredoh2009]

This post, with some fun using math, suggests Timmins is not that bad at drafting and that maybe MB is not as bad as

some say at developing through the draft : https://recrutes.ca/4773-2/

[tomh009]

18 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

This post, with some fun using math, suggests Timmins is not that bad at drafting and that maybe MB is not as bad as

some say at developing through the draft : https://recrutes.ca/4773-2/

 

Thanks! Some of the composite numbers get to be a bit subjective (which criteria matter?) but Timmins' record in drafting 200- and 300-game players is indeed excellent, better than I thought, especially when you consider that the Habs only had 25 top-two-round draft picks in 14 years, and usually not high ones.

[DON]

If the facts dont fit the theory, change the facts.

[JoeLassister]

19 hours ago, Commandant said:

Its pretty good to be top 3 in prospects.

 

You can say we only have 2 elite guys, but most teams don't have any elite guys 

 

And this team also.has a 20 year old top 5 in rookie scoring who is no longer counted as a prospect 

 

2 Dmen who are 21 and have played significant NHL time this year who are no longer considered prospects.

 

A 19 year old centre who is starting to find his game in the AHL again and if he was a prospect would be considered an elite prospect.

 

So yeah there is that.

 

Then there is primeau who is a top 10 goalie prospect.

I see 6 of them :   Minnesota, Detroit, Anaheim, Columbus, Ottawa and New Jersey.

 

All other teams have at least 1 elite player, unless your definition of elite is my definition of Superstar.

[Commandant]

33 minutes ago, JoeLassister said:

I see 6 of them :   Minnesota, Detroit, Anaheim, Columbus, Ottawa and New Jersey.

 

All other teams have at least 1 elite player, unless your definition of elite is my definition of Superstar.

 

Romanov was #5 in button's top drafted prospects list in january.  Caufield was 10th 

 

No other team has two in the top 10

 

I dont know where to draw the line... but to me elite is somewhere between 10 and 15.... its not including 30 guys.

[JoeLassister]

34 minutes ago, Commandant said:

 

Romanov was #5 in button's top drafted prospects list in january.  Caufield was 10th 

 

No other team has two in the top 10

 

I dont know where to draw the line... but to me elite is somewhere between 10 and 15.... its not including 30 guys.

My bad.  Didn't think your post was quoting another one about 2 elite prospects,  I thought you meant Price and Weber.

[Prime Minister Koivu]

For me this all comes down to one question, do I trust that MB can make the Habs a contender?

 

We can argue about the moves MB has made in the past vs. his recent moves but the question remains. Does MB have the vision, the plan and the ability to execute that plan that will lead to cup contention? Do I trust MB to be the GM we need to bring glory back to Montreal?

 

For me the answer is absolutely not.

 

My ideal scenario is for Molson to hire a really strong hockey mind as president of hockey operations. That president would determine if MB and company are the right team or not.

 

I frankly think that we need to clean house (GM and coaches) then hire a team to build a contender for today's NHL. My perception is that both MB and CJ value hard working, defensively responsible grunts over skill (it is who they are). Enough with endless tweaking of the bottom 6 and bottom pairing Dmen. Would Weal get PP time on any other team? Would Weiss be played on any other NHL team?

 

I think it is time for the old school GM and old school coach to go.

 

Do you trust MB to build a contender?

[DON]

1 hour ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:

Do you trust MB to build a contender?

Yes.

[IN THE HEARTS OF MEN]

1 hour ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:

For me this all comes down to one question, do I trust that MB can make the Habs a contender?

 

We can argue about the moves MB has made in the past vs. his recent moves but the question remains. Does MB have the vision, the plan and the ability to execute that plan that will lead to cup contention? Do I trust MB to be the GM we need to bring glory back to Montreal?

 

For me the answer is absolutely not.

 

My ideal scenario is for Molson to hire a really strong hockey mind as president of hockey operations. That president would determine if MB and company are the right team or not.

 

I frankly think that we need to clean house (GM and coaches) then hire a team to build a contender for today's NHL. My perception is that both MB and CJ value hard working, defensively responsible grunts over skill (it is who they are). Enough with endless tweaking of the bottom 6 and bottom pairing Dmen. Would Weal get PP time on any other team? Would Weiss be played on any other NHL team?

 

I think it is time for the old school GM and old school coach to go.

 

Do you trust MB to build a contender?

Its unfair to bring up Weise. We were down 5 starters and he was literally the only other option. With that said, he played admirable given the circumstances. He's now back in the press box and its much more appropriate to send Poehling and KK down rather than have them playing 4th line minutes. When Byron returns I see Evans going down as well and them trying to lead Laval on a Calder run being "the guys". I would not doubt thats the plan moving forward. I would even bet MB rides or dies this year and makes no moves unless they go on another slide before the deadline or hes offered something he just cant refuse! We already have a war chest of picks for the upcoming draft and solid prospects coming through the pipeline.

 

Looking at  Zucker for Galchenyuk and a 1st... thats a great deal for Minny and only cements the outright steal of Domi for Galchenyuk! There is no question MB is on the rise in his decision making. Just look at the moves going back all the way to Radulov... Sure he messed up Radulov and miscalculated the pride of Markov. Hes also been saved on some bad potential deals like Lucic etc (being rejected) but hes made up for those in spades.

 

i think MB has done pretty well since Molson and the organization decided to reset the line up and build through youth and the draft. we are getting what we were told. a mix of young veterans and in experienced youth and are building toward the future.

 

However, I would be ALL FOR bringing in an offensive minded President of Hockey Operations to keep the leadership all in line for sure.

 

 Has anyone called Serge Savard lately?

[Chris]

probably should commence with the getting younger and more picks now, 

 

they need to roll 3 wins in a row this week to even have a chance, chances are zero that will happen 

 

I don't trust MB / scouting / or even the coaches anymore, time for a new direction.

 

MB has made some good moves, bad moves and some ok moves. 

 

I'm glad the habs have some good youth, it remains to be seen what becomes of them player development isn't there specialty

 

Bottom line for me is

 

MB missed playoffs 4 out of the last 5 years

 

CJ will have missed 6 out of 7, 

 

Maybe it's the metric system, canadian dollar vs US dollar,  or celcius vs fehrenheit

 

However you measure it, that is a failure, 

 

A broken clock is right twice a day, doesn't mean you should stick with it

[Prime Minister Koivu]

I agree that MB has made some really good moves as well as mediocre moves. The guy is not a moron or completely incompetent but I don't trust that he has the vision to build a contender in today's NHL.

 

Smartest thing Molson could do is to hire a strong president to assess this

 

[Commandant]

My opinion on this but hiring a President AND keeping Bergevin doesn't work.

For the last 7.5 years, Bergevin has been in charge of hockey operations. 

 

You either fire him, and bring in a president and a new GM or you leave him in charge. 

 

This idea that Bergevin remains GM, but we hire someone over him is a non-starter.  Its like being half pregnant.  You can't hire someone over him and show that you have no faith in him, but still expect him to be GM.  You can't go half way saying we have confidence in you, but we still are putting someone on top of you.

 

If you want the model with a president and GM... you either start from scratch, hire a new President and let him pick his GM... or you keep Bergevin in charge.  You really can't go half and half on this. 

[hab29RETIRED]

2 hours ago, IN THE HEARTS OF MEN said:

Its unfair to bring up Weise. We were down 5 starters and he was literally the only other option. With that said, he played admirable given the circumstances. He's now back in the press box and its much more appropriate to send Poehling and KK down rather than have them playing 4th line minutes. When Byron returns I see Evans going down as well and them trying to lead Laval on a Calder run being "the guys". I would not doubt thats the plan moving forward. I would even bet MB rides or dies this year and makes no moves unless they go on another slide before the deadline or hes offered something he just cant refuse! We already have a war chest of picks for the upcoming draft and solid prospects coming through the pipeline.

 

Looking at  Zucker for Galchenyuk and a 1st... thats a great deal for Minny and only cements the outright steal of Domi for Galchenyuk! There is no question MB is on the rise in his decision making. Just look at the moves going back all the way to Radulov... Sure he messed up Radulov and miscalculated the pride of Markov. Hes also been saved on some bad potential deals like Lucic etc (being rejected) but hes made up for those in spades.

 

i think MB has done pretty well since Molson and the organization decided to reset the line up and build through youth and the draft. we are getting what we were told. a mix of young veterans and in experienced youth and are building toward the future.

 

However, I would be ALL FOR bringing in an offensive minded President of Hockey Operations to keep the leadership all in line for sure.

 

 Has anyone called Serge Savard lately?

I don’t see how you can give credit to MB, because he was lucky that Lucic turned him down - despite offering more money what. It was a dumb offer to make.  I also can’t see how you can at the same time commend him for signing radulov whe. He didn’t resign him or Markov and left massive holes in the lineup.  That’s like saying I was really smart buying Apple at $10 when they started up.  I’m glad I sold the stock when it hit $10.50.

 

and just no to serve  Savard being part of the search.  He was part of the last search that resulted in the two main options being zoot suit bergevin and blow hard McGuire.

[Prime Minister Koivu]

18 minutes ago, Commandant said:

My opinion on this but hiring a President AND keeping Bergevin doesn't work.

For the last 7.5 years, Bergevin has been in charge of hockey operations. 

 

You either fire him, and bring in a president and a new GM or you leave him in charge. 

 

This idea that Bergevin remains GM, but we hire someone over him is a non-starter.  Its like being half pregnant.  You can't hire someone over him and show that you have no faith in him, but still expect him to be GM.  You can't go half way saying we have confidence in you, but we still are putting someone on top of you.

 

If you want the model with a president and GM... you either start from scratch, hire a new President and let him pick his GM... or you keep Bergevin in charge.  You really can't go half and half on this. 

 

When i say hire a president and let them asses MB and CJ, what I'm really saying is the new president would fire them both and start in a new direction.

 

I think that MB and CJ both need to be replaced because I don't trust that they understand the NHL in 2020 and beyond.

 

Bottom line is that I do not trust them to accomplish the goal

[IN THE HEARTS OF MEN]

6 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said:

I don’t see how you can give credit to MB, because he was lucky that Lucic turned him down - despite offering more money what. It was a dumb offer to make.  I also can’t see how you can at the same time commend him for signing radulov whe. He didn’t resign him or Markov and left massive holes in the lineup.  That’s like saying I was really smart buying Apple at $10 when they started up.  I’m glad I sold the stock when it hit $10.50.

 

and just no to serve  Savard being part of the search.  He was part of the last search that resulted in the two main options being zoot suit bergevin and blow hard McGuire.

Not sure what your reading or what your saying... or who gave him credit!

 I used Lucic as an example of another possible stain on his resume that he was lucky to not get.  That is a100% accurate. HE WAS LUCKY lucic chose to get closer to home and play with McDavid. Just like he was UNLUCKY radulov chose to take less money in almost tax free texas. Or he was LUCKY Gardiner chose to take less in Carolina and UNLUCKY Wadell choose to accept the signed rfa sheet of Aho. We could do this all day...

 

It probably would of been more fair to use Alzner. 

But with that said,

Was signing Radulov a good move? Yes of course.

Was failing to to get Radu resigned  at a higher salary then Dal offered? Yes of course but it was the players choice

Was failing to resign Markov a bad move? Yes of course

All things that were negative that I pointed out not sure where I was giving him credit. 

 

Again, though I Do believe MB has done a good even great job over the last 3 seasons. Rebuilding this team after some poor drafting years and failed contention in the early years.

 

Hes made up for those pas mistakes in spades.. move on