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Game Thread | Canadiens de Montréal vs. Devils du New Jersey | 02/14/07


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Come on guys. Don't jump off the bandwagon yet. Keep watching and keep supporting this team.

Your frustrated just like everyone else and you've got a right to complain, because they are playing like shit. But don't stop watching and supporting them. Its embarrasing. Don't be a fair weather fan. Watch em when there bad and watch em when they are good.

Have to agree with Kaos all the people saying they will not watch or listen when the team loses oh well they will not feel as good when the Habs win the cup.

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I see alot of posts about the so called "system". If the system isnt supposed to lead to losing then we cant have a F**KING system.

A defensive system where we give the other team 35+ shots every night while we shoot 30-? Great system Bob and Guy, really great.

Can we somehow get the guy we had before Gainey back? With him the team at least looked like it was improving. Now I dont see any light.

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Come on guys. Don't jump off the bandwagon yet. Keep watching and keep supporting this team.

Your frustrated just like everyone else and you've got a right to complain, because they are playing like shit. But don't stop watching and supporting them. Its embarrasing. Don't be a fair weather fan. Watch em when there bad and watch em when they are good.

I understand what you're saying, and I partly agree with it, however....I do feel a message has to be sent to the organization that the fans are pissed.

Why not speak to them with dollar signs, and not buy tickets to the games?

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I understand what you're saying, and I partly agree with it, however....I do feel a message has to be sent to the organization that the fans are pissed.

Why not speak to them with dollar signs, and not buy tickets to the games?

Because other than the 2000 they release every 15th of the month there is no way in hell a Habs game will not be a sell out.

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Appreciate the loyalty, but this had been going on for longer than "a few weeks". I really dont think anyone is jumping off the badwagon...it's just reality, man. If people were off the bandwagon, they wouldnt care about the team.

People are very frustrated, and continue to follow their favorite team. It has been going on for almost 2 crucial months, and it is time for the perpetual optimists to WAKE UP. There is a big problem, and we should all be concerned. Just cause 2 great hockey minds havent made any changes, doesnt mean they are right. I mean, are we all crazy?? We see the problems. We keep losing. No changes are made.

2 months.....longest, most publicized SLIDE this year....EMBARRASING

This type of play has been going on all year, not for the last 2 months. The Canadiens have not been a good team all year. THe only difference now is that Huet has come back down to where he should be playing, and the other teams have figured out our special teams. There is nothing more to it than that. We had a very basic formula that we went on for awhile and got some bounces, hence we won some games, albeit only by a goal each night. If you look at our 5 on 5 stats for the season, we are the worst team in the league, and that is not just looking at them for the last 2 months. I am amazed how many people are on this forum that actually are blind enough to think that when we were winning we actually had a good team. Not much has changed in this teams overall play. Just not very good.

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A bandwagon fan is somebody who does not give a shit about a team 24/7 until they win, and as long as the continue to win that bandwagon fan remains a fan. When the team begins to lose and that fan loses interest and finds something else to do, THAT is jumping off the bandwagon.

You want 2 examples,

Colorado Avalanche - 10 straight years of sellouts, they become a borderline playoff team and the empty seats begin to appear

Toronto Raptors - in 2001 with Vince Carter, 38 sellouts....the last 5 years...20 sellouts...the last 3 weeks 10 sellouts.

Becoming frustrated from watching every night for 2 months as they show lack of effort and endure the tailspin of hell and trying to do superstitous things to get them back on track...not exactly the acts of somebody who does not care.

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I'm sort of a bandwagon jumper myself. I never betray the Habs for another team. My version of bandwagon jumping involves cancelling RDS and forgetting about them this year. This also involves "checking in" from time to time in March and April to see if there is any post season play.

My present mood is that there must be better TV to watch than these goats. Not quite to that point but I am closing

:angry:

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Bring on Halak!!!! :D

I would play him. We can't do any worse. Abby looked like crap last night. Big juicy rebounds like crazy.

It also really bothers me how easily we let the team fly into our zone. WTF? Our coaching staff is full the greatest defensive forwards of our time, and we let this happen game after game. Maybe with a rookie goalie, the team will play tighter defensively.

You never know, he might light it up too.

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Have to agree with Kaos all the people saying they will not watch or listen when the team loses oh well they will not feel as good when the Habs win the cup.

Agreed, and here's my supportive rant... :clap:

1 - Higgins is still getting his legs under him...

2 - Sammy's just starting to feel his way... (sorry for the wavers)

3 - Kovy's gotta' heal (but do it quick)... (Sammy needs coaching)

4 - Shorten the shifts...

5 - When a great stick handler is moving, don't stand still and watch... crash the net...

6 - Shoot, Shoot, Shoot, stop looking for perfect plays. For every highlight goal, there are 5 working goals.

7 - Dig in the corners, lose teeth, put them under your pillows, and the NHL fairy will bring you a cup.

8 - Clear it immediately up the boards in the d-zone, no stick-handling what-so-ever!!!

9 - ...and everyone...Shoot, shoot, shoot. 2 goals on 20 shots is 4 goals on 40...

10 - Don't try to set-it-up like Kovy does, as no defense is frozen by anyone else on the CH squad.

:hockey:

...and I do believe that the habs are troubled by penalties because they are unsure what will be called. I believe we were outplayed by NJ last night but I re-watched the game and at least 3 times I saw blatantly bad calls. The most obvious was in the 3rd period, Plek had his face to the boards, trying to fend (1 on 1) then he would obviously want to break deep or back up the boards and took a 2 handed stick across the back. Sure he went down easy, but this is a cross-check... not a body check... so what gives, we lose the puck and out of the d-zone goes NJ? Koivu's hook was a joke, as he did not at all impeed the player with the puck, the call was made in the neutral zone but the play stopped in the MTL zone because NJ's continues up-ice un-impeeded?

:blink:

I watch a lot of games, and it appears that game to game, the refs are reading a different rule book. This is not a defense for MTL, but more of a general question... Hooking is caused by 'the one that got away'. Are the habs skating so lazy compared to the early part of the season, that this is the way they are (not) dealing with the speed issue?

I think not. We don't get caught on a lot of 2 on 1's and the like, so I'm starting to wonder if the boys lack confidence in hard fore-checking. Think back to how few times we've halted the opposition d-zone exit since the New Year. Heck, even Lapierre was scoring goals when our 4check was aggresive.

Everyone is using the basketball style pic now, which should be interference... so is the NHL going to start allowing players to skate through that? If we do, players are gonna get flattened. The reason I say that is because it is an infraction to slow a player on route to the puck, to make him go the long way around is ideal, but what about the player who decides he's going to skate over the pic? :wacko:

And for my last lick, BG is still probably in a bit of a personal fog regarding his family's loss. I do believe he will step in sometime soon, and start calling shots which will appear to come from Carbo. I know I saw Saku panting like a dog in the P-box, he's working hard and so are a lot of other guys. Gainey need that vocalise that this hard work ethic needs to bleed as a team. :hlogo:

Sure I may sound over confident in my assesment, but when I watch NJ, Calgary, Buffalo, I don't see these teams playing different compaired to the early season played by the habs, except for the confidence and play control in transition from D to O. Opposition speed is killing us, we have lots of our own, but aren't using it wisely or at all.

Go :hlogo: Go!

J

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I turned to TSN after our game to watch the Wild/Canucks game and all I can say is I noticed 1 glaring difference.......the SPEED. Soon as a guy had the puck (on either team) there was a guy on him! And passes were crisp and on teh mark hitting the winger in full flight.

FLOW, FLOW, FLOW and constant movement, either on the PP or the PK....

Our team of late reminds me of Pong, back and forth while everyone else is playing sonic the Hedgehog! Sorry but I'm not into the latest video games but you get the comparison......or should since Pong is soo outdated and slow....

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How bout assists ass hole.

Its not only about goals.

Koivu doesnt even know how to ######in control the half boards or organise a pp like Kovalev.

Any hockey fan with HALF a brain realises how ######ed our pp is without Kovalev.

So now that the game is over is this guy gone or what? It's bad enough having to sit through our games of late but I don't need the verbal abuse either!

And I know he's been "warned" before............

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Agreed, and here's my supportive rant... :clap:

1 - Higgins is still getting his legs under him...

2 - Sammy's just starting to feel his way... (sorry for the wavers)

3 - Kovy's gotta' heal (but do it quick)... (Sammy needs coaching)

4 - Shorten the shifts...

5 - When a great stick handler is moving, don't stand still and watch... crash the net...

6 - Shoot, Shoot, Shoot, stop looking for perfect plays. For every highlight goal, there are 5 working goals.

7 - Dig in the corners, lose teeth, put them under your pillows, and the NHL fairy will bring you a cup.

8 - Clear it immediately up the boards in the d-zone, no stick-handling what-so-ever!!!

9 - ...and everyone...Shoot, shoot, shoot. 2 goals on 20 shots is 4 goals on 40...

10 - Don't try to set-it-up like Kovy does, as no defense is frozen by anyone else on the CH squad.

:hockey:

J

Thanks for the supportive rant jtvoxboi, and welcome to the forum. When our boys are flailing out there, it's nice to read some positive comments that help generate optimism.

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First, they threw that game away last night. Yes, the refs were their usual crappy selfs, but it was Koivu again who made the difference.

Once again, Koivu coughs up the puck on the power play and then hooks a guy. He didn't even need to hook him, since the defense were ready for him. So instead of a PP, that lead to a PK and an eventual 5-3.

Its not bad enough that Koivu has not been contributing offensively, but for the last 5 games or so he has hurt his team with stupid penalties at the worse times. It has to stop.

Since I highly doubt they will bench him, I suggest they take him off the PP unit for a few games. Perhaps that will get the message across.

I did not have high hopes this season when they basically gave Ribeiro away for nothing, rather then upgrading his position. My fear was that Koivu would get injured and we would have no depth at center. As it turns out, he is not injured, but our glaring lack of depth at center is plain to see.

I have to lay this at the feet of Gainey. Why he made that trade is beyond me. It pissed off Kovalev. It weakened us up the middle, and it left this team vulnerable a Koivu injury/collapse.

This team is going no where this year and I suspect that Souray, our only offensive bright spot, will be gone at the deadline. I guess we can replace him with Nincompoop. :(

At some point, this team has to start making better personnel decisions. They need to get some offensive talent on this team to go with the youth. They also need to recognize that our young guys are not going to be superstars, so we need to buy some of those. Stop buying 4th and 3rd line guys, we have plenty in the system. We lack top 2 line talent.

sorry for my rant, but this team is pissing me off.

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This type of play has been going on all year, not for the last 2 months. The Canadiens have not been a good team all year. THe only difference now is that Huet has come back down to where he should be playing, and the other teams have figured out our special teams. There is nothing more to it than that. We had a very basic formula that we went on for awhile and got some bounces, hence we won some games, albeit only by a goal each night. If you look at our 5 on 5 stats for the season, we are the worst team in the league, and that is not just looking at them for the last 2 months. I am amazed how many people are on this forum that actually are blind enough to think that when we were winning we actually had a good team. Not much has changed in this teams overall play. Just not very good.

C-Love, I definitely disagree. I have watched almost every game and I am definitely not "blind". Earlier in the year, we skated and competed every night with teams like BUF, OTT, even NJ (although losing by 1)...We were fast and drew penalties as a result. Our PP and PK were tops, as was our goaltending. Also, we always found a way to win.

Yes, 5-on-5 has always been a problem, but despite that, alll the other traits are those of a GOOD TEAM. Now we dont have any of those traits, and are not a good team. So, I disagree....this has not been going on all year, and there is a definite change..

ps. What happened to our speed anyway? Does anyone else remember that team that forced the opposition to take penalties? Maybe the conditioning coaches should be fired??

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Have to agree with Kaos all the people saying they will not watch or listen when the team loses oh well they will not feel as good when the Habs win the cup.

Its really lame to simply not watch anymore and give up on your team, this is part of being a fan, albeit an extremely stressful that can sometimes end up in broken TV screens and maybe a dent in the wall.

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You guys need to focus and analyse evey game instead of just the result. What happened last night??

Well lets see, we gave up two LONG 5 v 3 pp situations in one period. Yeah no duh when you do that, along with a couple of other penalties, you are going to get scored against 3 times in a period.

I am starting to suspect that the canadians just have a lot of DUMB players on the lineup who have still not yet learned what a hooking penalty is in the new NHL.

We NEED to stop taking so many penalties. The habs had a good first period, outplayed and outscored NJ, and then what happens? They spend half the next period in the box and give up TWO 5 v 3 situations that are guaranteed goals (Except when the habs get them apparently), that is a game killer.

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It has nothing to do with jumping off the bandwagon, but jumping off a bridge into a train wreck sinking faster than a monkey on a rock. Or something like that.

This is a fan forum, so you have to expect that people will shower this team with hyperboles and superlatives when things are going good AND when things are going bad. For the sake of fairness, I hope you're scolding people for overreacting when things are going good, too.

I've been a long time member of this forum who doesn't post very often. Why? Because it's not in my nature to spontaneously vent whatever's on my mind. I can live with all the wild comments in this forum because I understand it for what it is: people are just venting their feelings about their Habs. It's cathartic. You shouldn't read any more into it than that.

I'm a long time Canadiens fan - going on 50 years now, so I've seen the good years and the bad years. Truth be told, I hate losing as much as the next guy when it comes to the :hlogo: ....

And yes, I absolutely loathe when I hear fans ranting on about a run to the Cup when it isn't a realistic expectation. That malarkey reminds me of the legions of deluded Leaf fans that surround me here in Southwestern Ontario, and it makes me want to upchuck every time I see or hear it!

For the record - whether you or anyone else here remembers or not, I've said several times in the past that this team is not an official contender just yet. And this current turn of events is solid evidence of that as far as I'm concerned. And I have no problem with people being upset as the losses pile up - this is not a slump anymore..... However I do have a problem with asinine and ill-informed trade suggestions, or remarks about the competency of Gainey & company. Suggestions like they don't care about this team, or are lousy coaches just get to meand eventually I have to express an opinion(hey I'm human. :rolleyes: ) I figure that I'm much like you in the sense I don't feel like replying to most posts here - like you it seems I read them more than I tend to reply to them. I don't feel that I need to express an opinion on every aspect of the team, or the world?

That said, as a long and loyal supporter of this franchise I am not blind to the situation, nor do I go on blindly and irrationally expecting the team to win the Cup year in and year out. I support them through thick and thin, even when I'm frustrated to the max. That doesn't mean that I don't accept the status quo - I want to see a winner as much as you, or pretty much any of the realistic fans that frequent this site. And I think changes need to be made in order for this team to step up to the next level - that of becoming an actual contender. Not just a shot in the dark(see Edmonton last year?)

I would welcome changes, but not at the cost of many proposals I read here. I leave that to Gainey - he has the knowledge, the experience and the understanding of what can and cannot be done in the NHL. Not to mention the insights into the dressing room itself?

In the end though I do I encourage fans to be passionate and loyal, but it is the lack of faith in management combined with the ridiculous suggestions that usually cause me to vent.

And by the way, I still say there are a lot of people who were riding the fired up band wagon into December that seem to have fallen off it in the past while. To them I simply say that this team has finally fallen back to earth - albeit in an extremely hard manner. Flirting with the top echelons of the league was fun while it lasted, but as of now this team is right where I expected it to be.... fighting for its' very own playoff life.

However not in the manner or form that currently exists - something is definitely amiss?

For what it's worth, I tend to think that Bob Gainey isn't at all surprized that they are fighting for a lower end playoff position, especially when you take into stock the fact that he has not made any panic motivated or irrational moves?

Rant completed....

:hockey: :hlogo: :hockey::clap:

Edited by beliveau1
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Appreciate the loyalty, but this had been going on for longer than "a few weeks". I really dont think anyone is jumping off the badwagon...it's just reality, man. If people were off the bandwagon, they wouldnt care about the team.

People are very frustrated, and continue to follow their favorite team. It has been going on for almost 2 crucial months, and it is time for the perpetual optimists to WAKE UP. There is a big problem, and we should all be concerned. Just cause 2 great hockey minds havent made any changes, doesnt mean they are right. I mean, are we all crazy?? We see the problems. We keep losing. No changes are made.

2 months.....longest, most publicized SLIDE this year....EMBARRASING

See my post above as that post is also in reply to yours. I'm as frustrated as the next guy, and can't say I blame him!

So I'm not a perpetual optimist - if anything I'm a realist. My background is in coaching and managing at high competitive levels of the game, so I guess I tend to view things from that perspective? I don't even begin to compare myself to an NHL manager or coach, but I can understand just how frustrated these guys must be in this situation. I have experienced great seasons, lousy seasons, have been a part of championship as well as absolute nightmare seasons in my time, so I have somewhat of a clue as to how hard it is to bring a team out of a horrible tailspin...

I wasn't referring to the on & off type of fan who rides the wagon only in the good times. This was a reference to the outright and sometimes unrealistic negativism that has enveloped this forum. A few weeks ago there wasn't a shortage of people who were singing the praises about this team - it was a definite contender according to a lot of people. and many of them are now slagging this team, suggesting management and the players don't give a damn. And that bothers me - to me that is a form of bandwagon loyalty.

When it is going good that type of supporter can't say enough good about the team... but once a slump, or maybe even reality set in they almost always begin to sing a different tune.

I think this team is not as bad as it's current plight suggests. They have definitely lost their confidence(and not because of coaching or managing.) It is the result of many smaller issues that have come to a point and once that happens the ride downhill to chaos can get ugly in a hurry. Players begin to squeeze the stick too hard, they begin to hang onto the puck too long, try to do to much, are gun shy in some instances and that leads to bad decisions on the ice. Add to that the fact that once you slip into a funk, it always seems that bad luck tends to follow you everywhere, rearing its ugly head at the most inopportune moment. Latendresse's misplayed breakaway against New Jersey is an excellent example of just how bad things are going right now. If it had been an opposition player in that case you can almost count on that bounce having not happened? It slowly becomes a rolling snowball that envelopes a team, and the task for coaches is all uphill after that. No definite plan or action will curtail this no matter how much you would like it to. It will stop on it's own time and in the most unlikely manner....

Are changes necessary - yes. The winds of change are inevitable for next season. The UFA situation in Montreal says so in a salary cap driven league. As for great hockey minds being right or wrong - you are more than welcome to wonder all you want = freedom of expression and I respect that. Fact is they are in charge and I'd rather have them in that position than a couple of fickle impatient fans. It is their knowledge and character that makes them more suited to this job than the vast majority of passionate fans out there.

It is the difference between irrational solutions to complicated matters and well formulated plans that a manager and coach need to realize and adhere to when a team is struggling. Mortgaging the future for a shot in the dark chance at a Cup isn't worth it, no matter how much we'd like to see it happen as far as I'm concerned. The Canadiens are not yet a true contender....

Am I blind - no

An I a perpetual optimist? Never - I'm not a member of the Leafs Nation.... :lol::P B)

Edited by beliveau1
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See above as this post is also in reply to yours.

I'm not a perpetual optimist - I'm a realist. My background is in coaching and managing at high competitive levels of the game, so I guess I tend to view things from that perspective?

Good post Beliveau1.

The way I see it anybody who is jumping off the bandwagon would probably not be here in the first place.

There are no rules set in stone as to how you support your team. This is a forum to set forth your point of view. Some may be stupid, some may be passionate and irrationale, some may be well thought out.

WE all have our opinions on how to get this thing back on track, and I am frustrated, dissappointed and perplexed as to how to get back on a roll. Gainey and Carbo are busting their ass I am sure trying to figure it out and if this season goes down the drain and we make no moves so be it.

Do we want a return to the Houle years where shortsighted moves placed this team in quicksand for close to 10 years. Have we forgotten 99-2002 when the CH became a joke?

Even though we are struggling right now a 5 game win streak would put us back in 4th or 5th place. We have the MVP of the World Juniors in our minor league system and lots of young talent to build around and barring any huge raises to Ryder/Higgins/Perez, signing Markov to a $4 Million deal and allowing Souray/Rivet/Abby walk we will have close to $14 Million in Cap space to sign 4 Free Agents in the off season.

The ship may be turbulent right now, but it is far from sinking. Carbo may not be the answer, but Gainey is learning alot from what is going on right now about his players and his young coaching staff.

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Good post Beliveau1.

The way I see it anybody who is jumping off the bandwagon would probably not be here in the first place.

There are no rules set in stone as to how you support your team. This is a forum to set forth your point of view. Some may be stupid, some may be passionate and irrationale, some may be well thought out.

WE all have our opinions on how to get this thing back on track, and I am frustrated, dissappointed and perplexed as to how to get back on a roll. Gainey and Carbo are busting their ass I am sure trying to figure it out and if this season goes down the drain and we make no moves so be it.

Do we want a return to the Houle years where shortsighted moves placed this team in quicksand for close to 10 years. Have we forgotten 99-2002 when the CH became a joke?

Even though we are struggling right now a 5 game win streak would put us back in 4th or 5th place. We have the MVP of the World Juniors in our minor league system and lots of young talent to build around and barring any huge raises to Ryder/Higgins/Perez, signing Markov to a $4 Million deal and allowing Souray/Rivet/Abby walk we will have close to $14 Million in Cap space to sign 4 Free Agents in the off season.

The ship may be turbulent right now, but it is far from sinking. Carbo may not be the answer, but Gainey is learning alot from what is going on right now about his players and his young coaching staff.

thanks

:o

I wasn't expecting anyone to agree as I tend to be in the minority when it comes to viewing this team?

I'm frustrated too... but we need to be realistic as to what can and can't be done.

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Every Habs nut where I work (not fan, but nut) has also stopped watching. They've moved on to Raptors or sitcoms or what have you.

Sad stuff

I have stopped watching until they win a couple in a row. Personally it is all superstition. I hope that by giving up that they turn it around. I already tried by wearing my Patrick Roy jersey from 1987 that is 4 times to small for me, but alas that failed as well. But last night was the first game I did not watch essentially all year and what did I do. I had the Raptors game on while I checked Habsworld on my laptop.

It is in the blood. I cannot ignore them, it is impossible. Let's just say it is a silent protest. Well, not really silent since I posted it on the board :)

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Every Habs nut where I work (not fan, but nut) has also stopped watching. They've moved on to Raptors or sitcoms or what have you.

Sad stuff

At least ticket prices will go down. I think I shall head down to the bell centre next tuesday at 7:30 and pick up some bargain tickets from desperate scalpers.

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