rafikz Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 (edited) Last night on the Habs post game show, Marinaro said that ''Bob Gainey was close'' when referring to landing Kovalchuk and the deal with New Jersey. Darren Dregger reported the same and said ''Montreal is one of the eastern conference teams with New Jersey that are in it'' on That's Hockey at 7:00 PM. It seems like Gainey was close when it came to Hossa, Arnott, Briere, Lecavalier, Kovalchuk (at the draft and now), The Sedin's and others. Edited February 5, 2010 by rafikz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 Yea, Always the brides maid never the bride. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fanpuck33 Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 Thank goodness he failed, then. I like Kovalchuck, but the guy just rejected two HUGE deals. Chances of us signing him after the season are slim to none. Even at that price trade-wise, we have no reason to get a rental. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 I think he will take less money to play with a good team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rafikz Posted February 5, 2010 Author Share Posted February 5, 2010 I don't know about Koval Pros: great sniper; great competitor, hates to lose Cons: he wants to be the best paid NHL player and rejects a good offer? something is fishy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saskhab Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 Bob was definitely never close to landing the Sedins. They never became available, so he never could have made an offer. And they were never available in trade at any point. And Kovalchuk at the draft was actually Savard, not Gainey. I can't imagine what offer he would have made to Atlanta. I'd guess it was more prospect heavy, with maybe Gorges as a the NHL player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 (edited) The fact is that there are very few players that fans around here would overwhelmingly be happy to see Gainey acquire. Lecavalier? Oh, bad contract. Hossa? Ditto, and a 'playoff bust' (or so people said at the time). Kovalchuk? No, 'something's fishy.' Briere? Terrible move (true dat). The Sedins? 'Bad playoff record.' Gomez? No way man. Other than Ovechkin and *maybe* Crosby, it doesn't matter who Bob acquires, many people will assail him for making a bad decision in a cap system. Kovalchuk is 26 and a bona-fide franchise player. In my view it is a simple and incontestable fact that he would have been a tremendous acquisition for years to come, IF we could get him signed. (That might be a big 'if,' but frankly you don't make the deal unless you have a conversation with him and/or his agent and get reassurance that he is interested in signing with you). For a player like that, you open the vault and cap be damned. Also, Bob has not uniformly struck out. He ran the table on the UFA market last summer, including bagging Mike Cammalleri, who can play on the top-3 on any team in hockey. (People don't appreciate his running the table - in fact they say he should be fired because of it - which goes directly back to my first point about it not mattering who Gainey acquires). Beyond that, Roman Hamrlik is a sadly underrated UFA signing but better overall value than the much-hyped Sheldon Souray. Gainey also won the Kovalev sweepstakes which were significant at the time and led to a lot off offence and a lot of entertaining drama over four years. My one regret in all this is that I keep thinking about Wamsley's attack on Gainey last summer. Wamsley argued that Bob should have stood pat with the 08 roster and then struck when teams in cap trouble (or just inept management) started shedding salary. While I'm still not sure that was a realistic strategy, the fact remains that Gainey probably could have had ample room to swoop in and bag Kovalchuk had he not blown his wad this summer. Then again, that Gainey apparently 'came close' suggests he still has the assets to lure opposing GMs. Edited February 5, 2010 by The Chicoutimi Cucumber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fanpuck33 Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 Kovalchuk is 26 and a bona-fide franchise player. In my view it is a simple and incontestable fact that he would have been a tremendous acquisition for years to come, IF we could get him signed. (That might be a big 'if,' but frankly you don't make the deal unless you have a conversation with him and/or his agent and get reassurance that he is interested in signing with you). For a player like that, you open the vault and cap be damned. If we were any sort of contender, then you could make an argument for trading for Kovalchuk without having a deal waiting to be signed when he got into town. As it is, Bob shouldn't have even been talking to Atlanta unless he'd been given permission to hammer out a deal with Kovalchuk. A conversation and an assurance that he's interested in Montreal wouldn't be enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 If we were any sort of contender, then you could make an argument for trading for Kovalchuk without having a deal waiting to be signed when he got into town. As it is, Bob shouldn't have even been talking to Atlanta unless he'd been given permission to hammer out a deal with Kovalchuk. A conversation and an assurance that he's interested in Montreal wouldn't be enough. Hmmm. Well, to me, being assured that he will be happy to sign with you would be sufficient. For two reasons: first, I would open the vault, like I said, so there would be no chance of him getting a sweeter deal elsewhere. And second, an excess of caution gets you nowhere. That clown Wadell isn't going to sit on his hands; by the time you'd worked out all the details Chuck would have been shipped off to hang with Tony Soprano. In any case, it's all speculation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MK1 Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 I think he will take less money to play with a good team. I respectfully and wholeheartedly disagree. Kovalchuk's only goal is to get paid, and he and his agent have made that very clear from the onset that he is looking for league maximum and long-term. If he can't get locked up in NJ expect the KHL rumors to swirl heading into the summer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fanpuck33 Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 Hmmm. Well, to me, being assured that he will be happy to sign with you would be sufficient. For two reasons: first, I would open the vault, like I said, so there would be no chance of him getting a sweeter deal elsewhere. And second, an excess of caution gets you nowhere. That clown Wadell isn't going to sit on his hands; by the time you'd worked out all the details Chuck would have been shipped off to hang with Tony Soprano. In any case, it's all speculation. Well, in that situation, it seems like the worst that would come out of it is that Bob loses out on him via trade but has a nice head start come July 1st. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habsfan84 Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 Does anyone know what Gainey was offering for Kovalchuk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habsfan Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 (edited) Cons: he wants to be the best paid NHL player There's absolutely no reason for Kovalchuk to want to be the highest paid player in the league. He isn't on the same level as Ovechkin and Crosby...and neither one of those two make 10 million$ per year!. He should be aiming for 8 million$ per year...anything more would be overpaying for him!! Edited February 5, 2010 by Habsfan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaos Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 Its too bad Gainey couldnt have aquire Kovalchuk. Doesnt look like it owuld have cost the Canadiens a whole lot. If you compare what the Devils gave up, Montreal maybe has to surrender Josh Gorges (JOhn Oduya), Max Pacioretty (Nik Bergfors), Matt Dagostini (Patrice Cormier) and maybe a 1st or 2nd round pick. Or something similiar. All for a guy who would not only greatly add to Montreals firepower, but would probably make Scott Gomez a lot better. As well. Everyone knows Kovalchuk wanted out of Atlanta and that the only reason he spurred their ridiculous contract offers of 12 years $100 million and 7 year $70 Million. Kovalchuk even stated in an interview today that he was happy to now be playing for a 1st class organization for the 1st time in his career. He knows hes not worth more than Ovechkin or Crosby and knows that hes gonna have to settle for around $8 to $8.5 million per year. I think alot of teams are kicking their own asses for not getting this deal done. Even if he is just a rental. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fanpuck33 Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 There's absolutely no reason for Kovalchuk to want to be the highest paid player in the league. He isn't on the same level as Ovechkin and Crosby...and neither one of those two make 10 million$ per year!. He should be aiming for 8 million$ per year...anything more would be overpaying for him!! Ever heard a little thing called greed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saskhab Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 Its too bad Gainey couldnt have aquire Kovalchuk. Doesnt look like it owuld have cost the Canadiens a whole lot. If you compare what the Devils gave up, Montreal maybe has to surrender Josh Gorges (JOhn Oduya), Max Pacioretty (Nik Bergfors), Matt Dagostini (Patrice Cormier) and maybe a 1st or 2nd round pick. Or something similiar. All for a guy who would not only greatly add to Montreals firepower, but would probably make Scott Gomez a lot better. As well. Everyone knows Kovalchuk wanted out of Atlanta and that the only reason he spurred their ridiculous contract offers of 12 years $100 million and 7 year $70 Million. Kovalchuk even stated in an interview today that he was happy to now be playing for a 1st class organization for the 1st time in his career. He knows hes not worth more than Ovechkin or Crosby and knows that hes gonna have to settle for around $8 to $8.5 million per year. I think alot of teams are kicking their own asses for not getting this deal done. Even if he is just a rental. If he wanted out of Atlanta that badly, he would have simply rebuffed all offers and told them to trade him like Heatley did. By all accounts he was generally happy being the top dog in Atlanta. He just wanted to get paid real good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doktor Kosmos Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 Thank goodness he failed, then. I like Kovalchuck, but the guy just rejected two HUGE deals. Chances of us signing him after the season are slim to none. Even at that price trade-wise, we have no reason to get a rental. This. His demands seemed to have more to do with cashing in than playing for a contender, at least as far as the future (i.e. after this season when he becomes a UFA). I wouldn't feel comfortable cmmitting yourself to the contract terms he'll be seeking. I get the impression that in Kovalchuk's world $$$ > the chance of winning the Stanley Cup. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to see him sign with whatever KHL team coughs up the biggest pay check. And while I'd be the first to agree you can't pin all the blame for it solely on Kovalchuk, dude's got 4 playoff games in his 7 NHL seasons prior to this one. I am unconvinced. He's scored a lot of goals, true, but he strikes me as someone who cares more about his bank status than anything else. Until he actually signs with Le Bleu-Blanc-et-Rouge, this discussion is more or less moot though. I don't think we will ever find out what he could have done for our team and how he would have affected the team around him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaos Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 If he wanted out of Atlanta that badly, he would have simply rebuffed all offers and told them to trade him like Heatley did. By all accounts he was generally happy being the top dog in Atlanta. He just wanted to get paid real good. Exactly. He did want out of Atlanta and he did rebuff all offers. I think he thought he was being classy by not asking for a trade. You dont just say after being traded that its great to finally play for a 1st class organization....there were problems there. Yes I do beleive he wants to be paid handsomely, however, I dont think he things he can get more than Ilya Kovalchuk. He simply wanted out. Really, what moron turns down $100 million dollars. Nobody will offer him that again. Except maybe Atlanta in the offseason, if hes not signed long term by then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexstream Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 apparently he offered Ryder, Halak and a 2nd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mineral Posted February 6, 2010 Share Posted February 6, 2010 apparently he offered Ryder, Halak and a 2nd. Umm...Ryder? In some three-way with Boston? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted February 6, 2010 Share Posted February 6, 2010 Its too bad Gainey couldnt have aquire Kovalchuk. Doesnt look like it owuld have cost the Canadiens a whole lot. If you compare what the Devils gave up, Montreal maybe has to surrender Josh Gorges (JOhn Oduya), Max Pacioretty (Nik Bergfors), Matt Dagostini (Patrice Cormier) and maybe a 1st or 2nd round pick. Or something similiar. All for a guy who would not only greatly add to Montreals firepower, but would probably make Scott Gomez a lot better. The comparisons notwithstanding, you still have to consider the cap implications. New Jersey had tons of space while the Habs were $1.2 million over the cap when the deal was made (closer to $2 million over now). Considering Pacioretty's in Hamilton, the Habs would have dealt about $1.6 million for just under $6.4. No way it could've worked unless a big contract went the other way which is exactly what Atlanta wanted to avoid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted February 6, 2010 Share Posted February 6, 2010 Its too bad Gainey couldnt have aquire Kovalchuk. Doesnt look like it owuld have cost the Canadiens a whole lot. If you compare what the Devils gave up, Montreal maybe has to surrender Josh Gorges (JOhn Oduya), Max Pacioretty (Nik Bergfors), Matt Dagostini (Patrice Cormier) and maybe a 1st or 2nd round pick. Or something similiar. All for a guy who would not only greatly add to Montreals firepower, but would probably make Scott Gomez a lot better. As well. Everyone knows Kovalchuk wanted out of Atlanta and that the only reason he spurred their ridiculous contract offers of 12 years $100 million and 7 year $70 Million. Kovalchuk even stated in an interview today that he was happy to now be playing for a 1st class organization for the 1st time in his career. He knows hes not worth more than Ovechkin or Crosby and knows that hes gonna have to settle for around $8 to $8.5 million per year. I think alot of teams are kicking their own asses for not getting this deal done. Even if he is just a rental. There is NO WAY we could get Kovulchuk unless Gomez was going the other way. Cap numbers would never work. I would LOVE to get Kovulchuk, but if he wants $10M/yr, we simply can't afford it. Even if he wants around $8.5M which is reasonable for what he brings, Gomez has to go the other way. otherwise the numbers would never work. Frankly, I think that would have been a great deal for Atlanta as well, as they would have picked up a guy signed for 4 years - since they have trouble retaining their players. A deal of Gorges, Gomez, MaxPax (as much as I hat to give him up), would have worked cap wise then you would have had to HOPE TO HELL you could convince Kovulchuck to sign long-term. In any event, I can't see us improving next year unless we can move Gomez and Hamrlik. That would be enough money to try and sign a guy like Kovulchuk and Pleks and still pick up another D-man in the $3M range, since we will be dumping at least Mara and probably Metro. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habsy Posted February 6, 2010 Share Posted February 6, 2010 And the beat goes on. Gomez is with us for the duration of his contract. Chances of someone taking him are next to zero. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexstream Posted February 6, 2010 Share Posted February 6, 2010 Umm...Ryder? In some three-way with Boston? not geek enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeLassister Posted February 6, 2010 Share Posted February 6, 2010 not geek enough. hahaha I'd propose to modify this for : Halak, Max Pac and a 3rd (the 2nd droped cuz Halak increased his value...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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