The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 (edited) Would you swap Saku and Kovalev for the Sedins? Hell yes. Depends on their salary demands, but hell yes. Well, reports are that they're willing to trade cap hit for term; hence the rumoured 11-year deal at 5.5 million per. Each twin is probably worth closer to 6.5 annually based on production. But you'll start to have a serious problem once in 5-7 years, once their games decline and they're still pulling down 5.5 million per year. (Personally I think too much is made of 'term,' partly because teams have not thus far been as ruthless as they could be with players who aren't giving full value. A declining player whose cap hit is killing you, and who is untradeable, can simply be sent to the minors, for instance; it would be potentially ugly, sending a Kovalev or a Sedin to ride the iron lung, but last I checked the goal is winning. If players are going to demand ridiculous term, then they have to be prepared to accept such possibilities. So if I were Gainey and term was the primary sticking point with the Sedins, I'd simply smile and say, '10 years? Sure!' ) In any case, that may have been a 'hometown discount' scenario. If Gainey shills out 6-6.5 per twin for a reasonable term (e.g., 5 years) I'd call that a coup that would solve a LOT of problems for the next half-decade. Edited June 27, 2009 by The Chicoutimi Cucumber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neech Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 I was considering the Vinny for Markov+ trade, and I'd still consider it. But we'd be losing our best player in exchange for a new best player. It's certainly a step backwards for a step forwards. Imagine the giant hole that Markov would leave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tokyohabs Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 I was considering the Vinny for Markov+ trade, and I'd still consider it. But we'd be losing our best player in exchange for a new best player. It's certainly a step backwards for a step forwards. Imagine the giant hole that Markov would leave. I'd think the hole he'd leave at the back is bigger than the solution up front (there is a porn flick title somewhere in that last sentence...). The whole point would be to have Vinny as our leader on the fwds, Markov as the d-corps leader, no? I guess no Jay Bo, at least he's headed out west! Beauchemin, Marleau still possibilities? Or the Sedins, that would be bold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 I'd think the hole he'd leave at the back is bigger than the solution up front (there is a porn flick title somewhere in that last sentence...). The whole point would be to have Vinny as our leader on the fwds, Markov as the d-corps leader, no? I guess no Jay Bo, at least he's headed out west! Beauchemin, Marleau still possibilities? Or the Sedins, that would be bold. I imagine that Anaheim will re-sign Beauchemin now that they've cleared Pronger's cap room, no? At the draft Gainey spoke enigmantically about there being a number of elite C available, but the asking price was problematic - that it could take all summer to get a deal done. I certainly suspect that Marleau is on the list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habitforming Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 (edited) Well, reports are that they're willing to trade cap hit for term; hence the rumoured 11-year deal at 5.5 million per. Each twin is probably worth closer to 6.5 annually based on production. But you'll start to have a serious problem once in 5-7 years, once their games decline and they're still pulling down 5.5 million per year. (Personally I think too much is made of 'term,' partly because teams have not thus far been as ruthless as they could be with players who aren't giving full value. A declining player whose cap hit is killing you, and who is untradeable, can simply be sent to the minors, for instance; it would be potentially ugly, sending a Kovalev or a Sedin to ride the iron lung, but last I checked the goal is winning. If players are going to demand ridiculous term, then they have to be prepared to accept such possibilities. So if I were Gainey and term was the primary sticking point with the Sedins, I'd simply smile and say, '10 years? Sure!' ) In any case, that may have been a 'hometown discount' scenario. If Gainey shills out 6-6.5 per twin for a reasonable term (e.g., 5 years) I'd call that a coup that would solve a LOT of problems for the next half-decade. I hear ya but in this instance..... why not sign the twins to 15 year deals? They are getting on to 30 year old now so you make the front end worth 5.5 or 6 and then have it tapper off for the last 5 years to be at $1M so the actual cap hit is relatively low. The twins will retire long before 45 anyway so it makes the cap hit workable at least. If both were paid $6M each, the actual cap hit over a 15 year deal would be $4.33 each. (This is assuming the contract is $6M for 10 years and the last 5 years at $1M) Edited June 27, 2009 by Habitforming Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTH Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 I hear ya but in this instance..... why not sign the twins to 15 year deals? They are getting on to 30 year old now so you make the front end worth 5.5 or 6 and then have it tapper off for the last 5 years to be at $1M so the actual cap hit is relatively low. The twins will retire long before 45 anyway so it makes the cap hit workable at least. If both were paid $6M each, the actual cap hit over a 15 year deal would be $4.33 each. (This is assuming the contract is $6M for 10 years and the last 5 years at $1M) It's pretty much what Detroit has been doing (take a look at Franzen's contract). Just the NHL holds the right to reject any contract if they think it's being too sly and going against the spirit of the game. So if someone signed a player to a 1000 year deal, it would be rejected in a heartbeat. I think they might veto even a contract for 15 years to guys in their late 20s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athlétique.Canadien Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 LaPresse has it that the Sedins, who are stalled in negotiations with the Canuckleheads, would 'consider' Montreal as UFAs:The fans are starving for UFA's and pickups. Most of all Lecavalier. I'm bummed out because the window is closing and the rumour mill went south last night on him. The fans want and need something. It's risky. It's money and cap. But after the Smyth, Hossa and Briere failures this team is wanting a mark made. It's a big centre. We all know that. But, make no mistake that Gainey can open the vault on these 2 if he and the owners choose to do so. I'd consider it a hot rumour based on logic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fanpuck33 Posted June 27, 2009 Author Share Posted June 27, 2009 I wouldn't be surprised to see a trade for Briere. With the acquisition of Pronger, the Flyers just jumped over the 56 million dollar mark in terms of salary cap commitment for next season. 3.5 million of that won't count unless Rathje makes a comeback, but that still leaves them with less than 4 million re-sign Alberts, Kukkonen, and a goalie to go along with Emery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 I wouldn't be surprised to see a trade for Briere. With the acquisition of Pronger, the Flyers just jumped over the 56 million dollar mark in terms of salary cap commitment for next season. 3.5 million of that won't count unless Rathje makes a comeback, but that still leaves them with less than 4 million re-sign Alberts, Kukkonen, and a goalie to go along with Emery. Something will happen with briere, but I sure hope *we* aren't gonna be the team on the hook for his salary/term. The Sedin option is vastly better in so many ways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saskhab Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 CC, the Ducks aren't more likely to re-sign Beauchemin now... they took Lupul's cap hit in exchange for Pronger, and added Sbisa who is definitely a NHL ready rearguard (having seen his performance in the WHL playoffs, where he was far and away the best player in a series that also featured Zack Boychuk, Kyle Beach, and top goalie in the conference Braden Holtby). They might re-sign Beauch, but I wouldn't call them more likely to. Trading Pronger was more about Niedermeyer coming back... they would've had a $6.5m d-man on their team next year no matter what. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soflhabfan Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 briere??? don't we have enough briere type players now???i'm not convinced gainey can make any kind of deal with anyone. a rather dismal draft. when will the new owners get rid of him? he was a great player, but his total image is being tarnished with every passing day.i don't know what big centre he thinks he can get in sept. or october, unless he has a u.f.o. or two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(zore) Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 briere??? don't we have enough briere type players now???i'm not convinced gainey can make any kind of deal with anyone. a rather dismal draft. when will the new owners get rid of him? he was a great player, but his total image is being tarnished with every passing day.i don't know what big centre he thinks he can get in sept. or october, unless he has a u.f.o. or two. Agreed.. Briere should not be our radar. If we get a small french player from Philly it better be Simon Gagne. And I do think Gainey's patience is really his non ability to get moves made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tokyohabs Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 Can't see how the draft was dismal at all, unless you are referring to lack of trades. We have all summer to trade for a ctr, doesn't have to be done with 15000 screaming fans in attendance at the Bell. We'll get the ctr in a trade, patience. I am sure we will not go for Briere - injuries on a smaller player, contract, size, etc. I am sure there will be a real effort to get Marleau, and we must have the assets they are looking for in return. At the right price I'd have Koivu back as 2nd line ctr behind Marleau, though I'd prefer a healthy Lang. Of course both Sedins are better than any of the above scenarios. As pointed out, the Ducks cap is about the same, not enough left for them to re-up Beauchemin (unless they deal Giguere to the Laffs right away, maybe?). Let's see if Bob can lure him next week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 The fans are starving for UFA's and pickups. Most of all Lecavalier. I'm bummed out because the window is closing and the rumour mill went south last night on him. The fans want and need something. It's risky. It's money and cap. But after the Smyth, Hossa and Briere failures this team is wanting a mark made. It's a big centre. We all know that. But, make no mistake that Gainey can open the vault on these 2 if he and the owners choose to do so. I'd consider it a hot rumour based on logic. It IS logical. And I'm having a hard time restraining my hopes. Negotiations with the Canucks are stalled, apparently because the idiot Canucks don't want to give more than a 5-year deal. The fan base is already moving on, happily focusing on Luongo's impending renewal and (laughter) Gaborik, which from a PR standpoint at least will make it easier for Gillis to hold firm. It's looking very good, too good to be true, and I'm just waiting for the piano to fall on my head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 For those of you hoping the Habs signed Oduya, it appears you can scratch him off the list, as he's reportedly re-upped with the Devils for $3M a season (no term noted in the article, at least not that I could find). Johnny Oduya stannar i New Jersey Devils. En kontraktsförlängning blir offentlig inom kort. Oduya lyfter lönen från 4,7 miljoner kronor till cirka 24 miljoner kronor. Roughly translated, that's a lot of kronor. http://www.aftonbladet.se/sportbladet/hock...ticle5441472.ab Devils are apparently denying a deal is done yet, so it'll be interesting to see how this plays out... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habitforming Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 (edited) briere??? don't we have enough briere type players now???i'm not convinced gainey can make any kind of deal with anyone. a rather dismal draft. when will the new owners get rid of him? he was a great player, but his total image is being tarnished with every passing day.i don't know what big centre he thinks he can get in sept. or october, unless he has a u.f.o. or two. How was it a dismal draft? They drafted a frenchie for the local flavor, and hit at least 1 home run with the other picks. If you're eluding to a lack of trades, that isn't what the draft is for. By your thinking 29 gm's should be fired because only one trade happened (Pronger). I wouldn't have paid that much for Pronger... no way Edited June 28, 2009 by Habitforming Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 If you're eluding to a lack of trades, that isn't what the draft is for. By your thinking 29 gm's should be fired because only one trade happened (Pronger). I wouldn't have paid that much for Pronger... no way Couldn't agree with you more, that Pronger price was insane. As for not being able to make a trade, it appears the Habs had or were on the verge of completing one for Lecavalier, but Len Barrie vetoed it. http://www.rds.ca/canadien/chroniques/277360.html Not surprisingly, it was soon after that the team announced (on Twitter no less) that Lecavalier would be in Tampa next season for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saskhab Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 It IS logical. And I'm having a hard time restraining my hopes. Negotiations with the Canucks are stalled, apparently because the idiot Canucks don't want to give more than a 5-year deal. The fan base is already moving on, happily focusing on Luongo's impending renewal and (laughter) Gaborik, which from a PR standpoint at least will make it easier for Gillis to hold firm. It's looking very good, too good to be true, and I'm just waiting for the piano to fall on my head. I'm thinking Gillis is looking at Hodgson and Kesler as his long term top 2 centers. He'll bring Sundin back as a stopgap until Hodgson is ready. Gaborik replaces Daniel Sedin. There is some logic to walking away from the Sedins for them... Hodgson gives them that flexibility, he's a heck of a centre prospect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 I'm thinking Gillis is looking at Hodgson and Kesler as his long term top 2 centers. He'll bring Sundin back as a stopgap until Hodgson is ready. Gaborik replaces Daniel Sedin. There is some logic to walking away from the Sedins for them... Hodgson gives them that flexibility, he's a heck of a centre prospect. That's some darned good analysis and very plausible. Certainly helps to explain why the Canucks don't want to lock up the Sedins long term (Hodgson is indeed projected to be elite). From that standpoint, the Habs simply are a better fit - provided the twins don't gravitate to their old loyalist Brian Burke. Looks like there's actual grounds for hope here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KEEP26 Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 (edited) ryane clowe resign with the sharks...............in side information.. Edited June 29, 2009 by KEEP26 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 ryane clowe cousin, jut called me and he is sign with the sharks............... Now why the heck would the Sharks sign Ryan Clowe's cousin. I don't think so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KEEP26 Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 Now why the heck would the Sharks sign Ryan Clowe's cousin. I don't think so. give me a break iam from NF my english not so good....lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 Small blurb out of the Gazette regarding Komisarek's contract offer... It will be a surprise if Komisarek is back. The Canadiens have made him what they consider a fair offer, believed to be in the $4 million a year range for four seasons. But all it takes is one team to top that figure and he's gone. Komisarek's agent, Matt Keator, isn't a believer in hometown discounts. If that's as high as the Habs are willing to go (for that matter, I'm not sure I'd go much higher myself), then start looking for Plan B. http://www.montrealgazette.com/Sports/deci...3122/story.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeLassister Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 Small blurb out of the Gazette regarding Komisarek's contract offer... If that's as high as the Habs are willing to go (for that matter, I'm not sure I'd go much higher myself), then start looking for Plan B. http://www.montrealgazette.com/Sports/deci...3122/story.html Yark. 1M$ less than he would get in 15 + other teams. Overpaying Komisarek would be my Plan A. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 You CAN NOT pay 5 mill for a stay at home defenseman. He really brings nothing else to the table. I like the guy and all but his strengths are limited to physical play (2 years ago) and blocking shots. He is average or below average in skating, passing, shooting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.