Permanent Rumour Thread

[dlbalr]

13 hours ago, TheDriveFor25 said:

What? We don’t want Taylor Hall because we might have to trade Tatar or Chiarot or a couple role players?

 

If Hall wants to sign with Montreal, you sign him and move out the player you need to. Value be damned, you’re getting a top liner for money. 

 

I don't think you realize how difficult the trade market is about to be.  If it was as simple as trading Tatar and someone else and getting proper value in return, that's one thing.  In this market, big money is going to require a sweetener to remove as the number of teams that can take money on is way less than the number that have to clear money out let alone the ones that want to.  If you're losing a couple of core players (including one who was more productive than Hall last year) plus something to make Hall happen, the net gain to the roster isn't all that strong.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Exciting if you ask me...but I've been disappointed so many times in the past regarding top UFAs signing here that I'm not going to read too much into it

https://montrealgazette.com/sports/hockey/nhl/hockey-inside-out/canadiens-could-be-one-top-three-teams-chasing-free-agent-taylor-hall

[tomh009]

How credible is Dreger?

 

With the remaining cap space I really don't see this as likely. I would rather go after Koivu, an RFA offer sheet, or even one of the RFA-turned-UFAs to fill out our bottom six.

[Commandant]

Dreger is credible.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

I have to say that I have trouble with the whole "Hall will create too many cap complications" argument. I mean, of course the deal has to make some sort of basic sense when it comes to dollar and term. But there seems to me something a bit perverse about arguing that we dare not add him because it will disrupt the cap structure of our FW complement. Let's not forget that our FW complement is middling at best. Not adding a legitimate top-line W in order to avoid disturbing a mediocre equilibrium seems like way overthinking it to me.

 

Like 'how will we be able to resign Tatar?' First of all, it is not clear that we should resign Tatar. He is a very fine player, I love his hockey IQ, but much will depend on his contract demands as a 30-year-old. And let's remember that he was complete fishwaste in the playoffs. Second, a lot of other things will happen between now and next off-season. Allen may be off the books, there will be bodies lost to expansion, who knows what all will go down. Not signing an upgrade because, y'know, he may cause cap trouble eventually just seems dreary to me. Sign the huge roster upgrade, sort out any further ramifications down the line when necessary.

[Habsfan84]

2 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

I have to say that I have trouble with the whole "Hall will create too many cap complications" argument. I mean, of course the deal has to make some sort of basic sense when it comes to dollar and term. But there seems to me something a bit perverse about arguing that we dare not add him because it will disrupt the cap structure of our FW complement. Let's not forget that our FW complement is middling at best. Not adding a legitimate top-line W in order to avoid disturbing a mediocre equilibrium seems like way overthinking it to me.

 

Like 'how will we be able to resign Tatar?' First of all, it is not clear that we should resign Tatar. He is a very fine player, I love his hockey IQ, but much will depend on his contract demands as a 30-year-old. And let's remember that he was complete fishwaste in the playoffs. Second, a lot of other things will happen between now and next off-season. Allen may be off the books, there will be bodies lost to expansion, who knows what all will go down. Not signing an upgrade because, y'know, he may cause cap trouble eventually just seems dreary to me. Sign the huge roster upgrade, sort out any further ramifications down the line when necessary.

 

It's not only next season.  We dont have the cap space to take him on this season. 

 

No doubt I would also love to have him but dont feel there is a fit. 

[GHT120]

4 hours ago, Commandant said:

 

4 seasons of PPG play makes a player elite in my books. 

 

True ... 2012/13 & 2013/14 then 14/15, 15/18, 16/17 the 2017/18 & 2018/19 ... lacks the consistency for my books ... he is very good, and has had several great seasons, but but just don't see him as elite currently ... at least not to pay him an elite AAV

But if habs sign him I will hope he proves me wrong

 

[GHT120]

36 minutes ago, Commandant said:

Dreger is credible.

Agree ... VERY credible

[xXx..CK..xXx]

1 hour ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

Exciting if you ask me...but I've been disappointed so many times in the past regarding top UFAs signing here that I'm not going to read too much into it

https://montrealgazette.com/sports/hockey/nhl/hockey-inside-out/canadiens-could-be-one-top-three-teams-chasing-free-agent-taylor-hall

Let’s do it 👌

[xXx..CK..xXx]

5 hours ago, GHT120 said:

Non ... FIN

 

For me, one season does not ELITE make ... unless elite now means 26-ish goals per full season ... in which case the Habs already have a couple of elite forwards

 

Of course we are both expressing personal OPINIONS

The thing is, he is elite. There’s no debate.

[GHT120]

Just now, xXx..CK..xXx said:

The thing is, he is elite. There’s no debate.

 

We disagree ... but we are both entitled to opinions

[xXx..CK..xXx]

4 minutes ago, GHT120 said:

 

We disagree ... but we are both entitled to opinions

http://www.nhl.com/stats/skaters?reportType=season&seasonFrom=20102011&seasonTo=20192020&gameType=2&filter=gamesPlayed,gte,1&sort=points&page=0&pageSize=50

 

2010s

 

and then when you find him, look at everyone around him and their points per game in comparison. 

 

Elite.

[tomh009]

23 minutes ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

The thing is, he is elite. There’s no debate.

 

22 minutes ago, GHT120 said:

We disagree ... but we are both entitled to opinions

 

It looks like a debate to me! 😀

[GHT120]

16 minutes ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

http://www.nhl.com/stats/skaters?reportType=season&seasonFrom=20102011&seasonTo=20192020&gameType=2&filter=gamesPlayed,gte,1&sort=points&page=0&pageSize=50

 

2010s

 

and then when you find him, look at everyone around him and their points per game in comparison. 

 

Elite.

 

Limited it to forwards and put in a 100 game minimum (to filter flash in the pans)  ... Hall is 23rd ... Very, very good ... but IMO the term "ELITE" is for the best of the best ... 

 

More importantly, Habs are looking for players to put the puck into the net ... for the same period Hall is 157th in goals per 60 minutes ... not I.M.O. what habs need ... especially at a high AAV

[GHT120]

3 minutes ago, tomh009 said:

It looks like a debate to me! 😀

Would frame it more as a disagreement

[xXx..CK..xXx]

16 minutes ago, GHT120 said:

 

Limited it to forwards and put in a 100 game minimum (to filter flash in the pans)  ... Hall is 23rd ... Very, very good ... but IMO the term "ELITE" is for the best of the best ... 

 

More importantly, Habs are looking for players to put the puck into the net ... for the same period Hall is 157th in goals per 60 minutes ... not I.M.O. what habs need ... especially at a high AAV

Sorry, the cut off for Elite was .90 points per game over that 10 year span, and Taylor Hall just made it. 

 

“e·lite

/əˈlēt,āˈlēt/

 

noun

1. 

a select group that is superior in terms of ability or qualities to the rest of a group or society.“

 

 

Taylor Hall would be superior to any of our forwards, be the superior forward on many teams, and was the superior forward on his team in the past.
 

Elite.

 

Regardless, I’ve only had to watch him play to consider him talented. Who cares about the term Elite. Taylor Hall is one guy I would not want to make a point of staying away from which seems to be what is being suggested here. That’s the only place our “opinions” differ. 

 

 

 

 

[GHT120]

7 minutes ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

Sorry, the cut off for Elite was .90 points per game over that 10 year span, and Taylor Hall just made it. 

 

“e·lite

/əˈlēt,āˈlēt/

 

noun

1. 

a select group that is superior in terms of ability or qualities to the rest of a group or society.“

 

 

Taylor Hall would be superior to any of our forwards, be the superior forward on many teams, and was the superior forward on his team in the past.
 

Elite.

 

Regardless, I’ve only had to watch him play to consider him talented. Who cares about the term Elite. Taylor Hall is one guy I would not want to make a point of staying away from which seems to be what is being suggested here. That’s the only place our “opinions” differ. 

 

NEVER said he wasn't talented ... just that *** I *** do not consider him elite ... the term "elite:" is what we have differed on

 

Think the difference is that I have a narrower view of the select group that is superior in terms of ability or qualities to the rest of the NHL

 

I also feel that goals are a more important measure of what the habs lack than pts/gm

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

30 minutes ago, GHT120 said:

 

NEVER said he wasn't talented ... just that *** I *** do not consider him elite ... the term "elite:" is what we have differed on

 

Think the difference is that I have a narrower view of the select group that is superior in terms of ability or qualities to the rest of the NHL

 

I also feel that goals are a more important measure of what the habs lack than pts/gm

 

Well, there's a difference between a "star" and a "superstar." Hall is the former, McDavid the latter.

 

I strenuously disagree with the boldfaced part, for the same reasons Commandant enumerated. Playmaking is an indispensable offensive skill, and there is a reason points totals do not differentiate between goals and assists. What makes a player a star is their ability to manufacture offence. That's what counts.

 

[xXx..CK..xXx]

I believe John Chayka was lying when he specifically stated:

 

"Taylor Hall is one of the elite talents in the game today: a Hart Trophy winner, a high-end playmaker and one of the NHL's most talented forwards," Coyotes general manager John Chayka said. "We are beyond thrilled to add Taylor to our team...” 

[GHT120]

Just now, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

Well, there's a difference between a "star" and a "superstar." Hall is the former, McDavid the latter.

 

I strenuously disagree with the boldfaced part, for the same reasons Commandant enumerated. Playmaking is an indispensable offensive skill, and there is a reason points totals do not differentiate between goals and assists. What makes a player a star is their ability to manufacture offence. That's what counts.

 

 

Agree on Hall versus McDavid ... 

 

Don't in any way mean to denigrate playmaking ... it is a distinct skill and very important ... just feel that what the Habs lack most is the ability to puck into the net ... Gallagher is a 30 goal scorer ... Adam Oates in his prime might make Tartar a consistent 30 goal scorer but doubt he could do the same for Drouin, Armia, Lehkonen et al ... a high-end playmaker might make such good plays that some of what in recent years have been missed opportunities are converted, just feel that a goal scorer would add more.

[GHT120]

2 minutes ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

I believe John Chayka was lying when he specifically stated:

 

"Taylor Hall is one of the elite talents in the game today: a Hart Trophy winner, a high-end playmaker and one of the NHL's most talented forwards," Coyotes general manager John Chayka said. "We are beyond thrilled to add Taylor to our team...” 

 

I wouldn't say he was lying ... he was in "GM speak" about a player he just traded for ... kind of like every GM being shocked each player they draft was still available ... BTW don't disagree that Hall is very talented

[DON]

NHL.com noted

"Blue Jackets worried about offer sheet to Dubois."

 

Doubt Habs can make a serious offer, could they?

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

7 minutes ago, DON said:

NHL.com noted

"Blue Jackets worried about offer sheet to Dubois."

 

Doubt Habs can make a serious offer, could they?

 

Don't see that happening as the Habs don't have the cap room to make any big offers plus Columbus could easily match as they have cleared a lot of cap space although they may plan to make a run at Hall with it.

[DON]

12 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

 

Don't see that happening as the Habs don't have the cap room to make any big offers plus Columbus could easily match as they have cleared a lot of cap space although they may plan to make a run at Hall with it.

 And what if CBJ signs Hall to huge deal before signing Dubois?

Assume they must have a deal ready for Dubois to sign and wouldnt lose him just to add Hall? Would they?

 

[dlbalr]

40 minutes ago, DON said:

NHL.com noted

"Blue Jackets worried about offer sheet to Dubois."

 

Doubt Habs can make a serious offer, could they?

 

I think they're less worried now that they moved out money to hedge against that happening.  Now they have the money to match without being put in a bind.  It sounds like their plan is to re-sign their RFAs and not do a whole lot more.