What it will take to resign Pleks/Halak/Price et el?

[hab29RETIRED]

well NHL GM's will never cease to amaze me. What exactly is the requirement to be a NHL GM???? Joe Neiwendyk should have his head examined. Steve Ott just got a 4 yr deal worth close to $3M/yr. If a 3rd/4th line grinder like Ott is worth $3M, what is it going to cost to sign Pleks????

I realize that unlike laraque, Ott can at least take a regular shift, but really, IMO, you should not be paying more then $1.5M to a guy like that. You would think the idiots in Dallas would have learned something from the Avery signing (which they are still paying 1/2 of that idiots salary - not sure who is the biggest idiots - Avery or the fools that signed him!!).

How GM's continue to shoot themselves and screw over every other team in the league with dumb signings never ceases to amaze me. Don't these guys realize that they are operating under a salary cap???? There is NO WAY a team can hope to be a contender if they are going to pay role players that kind of money in a cap world.

What is the point of the league going to war with the players if the fools running the teams continue to pay these insane salaries to marginal players. If the league really wants to ensure that the CBA agremeents that have resulted in numerous work stoppages that have hurt the league, actually works; they need to first go to war with managment of the teams, rather then fighting with the players. There should be a requirement, that you have someone with some business accumen and savvy AND knoweledge of the CBA, before you can run a hockey team. Not sure if going with ex-players who probably don't have more then a high school education is the right business model. I think most hockey fans would have made better GM's then Mike Milbury or Brett Hull!!!

I can't get over a bonehead team like Dallas, who have had ex-players like Neiwendyk or Hull in Dallas making incredbly stupid busines decisoins. These two guys alone have screwed up the pay scales for 3rd/4th line energy players. The only thing that would surprise me more is if tniwendyk also gave Ott a no movement clause that would futher tie his hands!!!

I guess it shouldn't be much of a surprise when Hicks is the owner though. He is probably the stupidest owner in sports. A guy who ended up picking up a big chunk of A-Rods salary, in order to move A-Rod and his contract to the Yankees. Then Okayed the Avery deal - which again ended up in Dallas having to pay half of Avery's salary. You would think an owner would learn .

You have idiots in management making stupid payroll decisions and then the league will go to war with the players and probably have another work stoppage. What the hell is the point??? When these morons continue to shoot themselves in the foot???

Signings like this make me shudder what it is going to cost for the habs to resign Pleks, Halak, Price and Pouliot this summer and then Markov next summer. Like I've already said, what is the price for Pleks if Ott is worth $3M????

Edited March 1, 2010 by hab29RETIRED

[Prime Minister Koivu]

I think that they should lower the max salary %. If the true elite players were capped at (random number here) say 6 million then it should lower the salaries of the role players.

It's true though that GMs continue to make stupid deals (something that the whole lockout was supposed to address) and it screws up everyone else.

Whatever the case I don't see how we can sign Plex. Even if we move out by some miracle enough salary to afford Plex it most certainly means a crippling contract going to Plex. We are in a tough spot here and Dominic Moore is not the answer to our problems!

[BlueKross]

You have idiots in management making stupid payroll decisions and then the league will go to war with the players and probably have another work stoppage. What the hell is the point??? When these morons continue to shoot themselves in the foot???

The good news is that the GM's don't have to make too many mistakes before they become EX-GM'S.

Bad Gm's are quickly exposed.

[hab29RETIRED]

I think that they should lower the max salary %. If the true elite players were capped at (random number here) say 6 million then it should lower the salaries of the role players.

It's true though that GMs continue to make stupid deals (something that the whole lockout was supposed to address) and it screws up everyone else.

Whatever the case I don't see how we can sign Plex. Even if we move out by some miracle enough salary to afford Plex it most certainly means a crippling contract going to Plex. We are in a tough spot here and Dominic Moore is not the answer to our problems!

I don't agree with you, because, I don't know why you would wanto to penalize the guys that are actually worth their salaries, in order to try and control 's paid to the bottom feeders.

I really don't think that lowering the max available to true superstars like the Ovechkin, Crosby, Malkin or Lidstroms is the answer - those guys who people pay to see. To me it makes no sense that guys like Gomez, Brad Richards, or Drury make only around $2M less then Crosby/Malkin.

The stars are what sells the game and get people to pay for the tickets. I'm sure there is a certain element (just as their was a certain element that watched crap like Jerry Springer), that will buy a ticket to see a Laraque, Ott or Avery, but they (I WOULD HOPE!!!) are a minority.

The only way the owners could try and rectify the situation, where the game's true meal tickets get their due, is if each team was only allowed to designate 1 guy as a franchise player and pay him the max and then have to keep everyone else signed under a hard cap. That would also support the goal of having greater balance across the league.

however, given that after the first 5-6 players there is a significant drop off in talent, there really isn't enough players to have a players to ensure every team has a true superstar. Which of course would mean that you would still have someone sign a gomez or Drury to a stupid deal.

You can't legislate against stupidity, othwerwise, they would have figured out a way to protect the rest of the teams against teams like the NYR, who almost EVERY FRIGGIN YEAR sign a guy to a stupid contract to increase their "star power".

I also think that such a strategy would prevent teams like Washington and Pittsburgh to be rewarded for sucking basically sucking for 5-10 years and stocking up on top 3 picks each year, since they wouldn't be able to sign more then one guy close to the max.

of course given that the NHL star players are clueless and don't really seem to care what the NHLPA does and becuase the NHLPA seens to be run by marginal players and clowns like Brad Ferance, a system like that would never be supported by the players.

You have idiots in management making stupid payroll decisions and then the league will go to war with the players and probably have another work stoppage. What the hell is the point??? When these morons continue to shoot themselves in the foot???

The good news is that the GM's don't have to make too many mistakes before they become EX-GM'S.

Bad Gm's are quickly exposed.

Not sure if I agree. Mad Mike was GM with the NYI for at least 5-6 years - maybe more How long were we stuck with Reggie??

[Sir_Boagalott]

The good news is that the GM's don't have to make too many mistakes before they become EX-GM'S.

Bad Gm's are quickly exposed.

Quickly exposed? You sure? I thought they were quickly hired by MLSE.

Remeber the Burke vs Lowe fiasco. Burke was fuming at Lowes RFA offer on Penner, saying how outrageous and so over priced, driving up player salaries is all lowes fault and as soon as he's done that sentace he signed Perry and Getzlaff to almost identical contracts.

The new CBA will most likely be very similar to the last one. Nothing changed after the last CBA.

To keep Plex, Halak, Price et el we needed signings like this 2-3 years ago: http://tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=311479

The Habs have pretty much already lost Plex, just most people havent quite come to the sad realization yet.

[JacksonJ]

I don't agree with you, because, I don't know why you would wanto to penalize the guys that are actually worth their salaries, in order to try and control 's paid to the bottom feeders.

I really don't think that lowering the max available to true superstars like the Ovechkin, Crosby, Malkin or Lidstroms is the answer - those guys who people pay to see. To me it makes no sense that guys like Gomez, Brad Richards, or Drury make only around $2M less then Crosby/Malkin.

The stars are what sells the game and get people to pay for the tickets. I'm sure there is a certain element (just as their was a certain element that watched crap like Jerry Springer), that will buy a ticket to see a Laraque, Ott or Avery, but they (I WOULD HOPE!!!) are a minority.

The only way the owners could try and rectify the situation, where the game's true meal tickets get their due, is if each team was only allowed to designate 1 guy as a franchise player and pay him the max and then have to keep everyone else signed under a hard cap. That would also support the goal of having greater balance across the league.

however, given that after the first 5-6 players there is a significant drop off in talent, there really isn't enough players to have a players to ensure every team has a true superstar. Which of course would mean that you would still have someone sign a gomez or Drury to a stupid deal.

You can't legislate against stupidity, othwerwise, they would have figured out a way to protect the rest of the teams against teams like the NYR, who almost EVERY FRIGGIN YEAR sign a guy to a stupid contract to increase their "star power".

I also think that such a strategy would prevent teams like Washington and Pittsburgh to be rewarded for sucking basically sucking for 5-10 years and stocking up on top 3 picks each year, since they wouldn't be able to sign more then one guy close to the max.

of course given that the NHL star players are clueless and don't really seem to care what the NHLPA does and becuase the NHLPA seens to be run by marginal players and clowns like Brad Ferance, a system like that would never be supported by the players.

Not sure if I agree. Mad Mike was GM with the NYI for at least 5-6 years - maybe more How long were we stuck with Reggie??

I won't lose any sleep because Crosby or Malkin are only making 7mil instead of 9mil to play a game. When you consider they already make more in one year than a doctor makes in a lifetime it's hard to feel sorry for a small (relatively) pay cut.

Back to the original question, I think we could have Plex for just over four mil considering the deal Stajan just signed. Plex may be better than Stajan, but their numbers are closer than most people would think.

Most important of all I hope to God PG doesn't overpay on his first signing. If he lays down the line with his first guy then maybe we won't be expected to continue overpaying for FAs.

[KEEP26]

i dont see how we sigh plex with out dumping cap...price shouldnt be bad to sign but i think halak going to look for a pay jump...

I feel plex well be trade , i cant take losing another guy..if we cant sign him we need to trade him..

[hab29RETIRED]

I won't lose any sleep because Crosby or Malkin are only making 7mil instead of 9mil to play a game. When you consider they already make more in one year than a doctor makes in a lifetime it's hard to feel sorry for a small (relatively) pay cut.

I'm not going to lose sleep either. I'm just saying that these guys are the one's generating the revenues - they are the ones who deserve the biggest piece of the pie. It's irrelevant what a doctor or teacher, fireman make. The salaries players make are based on the revenues they are generating for the skill they have. I have no problem with a guy like Ovechekin getting whatever he gets, bcoz at the end of the day he is selling the game. On the other hand, guys like Ott and Avery if anything hurt the game with their antics. They are easily replaceable parts on a team.

I won't lose any sleep because Crosby or Malkin are only making 7mil instead of 9mil to play a game. When you consider they already make more in one year than a doctor makes in a lifetime it's hard to feel sorry for a small (relatively) pay cut.

Back to the original question, I think we could have Plex for just over four mil considering the deal Stajan just signed. Plex may be better than Stajan, but their numbers are closer than most people would think.

Most important of all I hope to God PG doesn't overpay on his first signing. If he lays down the line with his first guy then maybe we won't be expected to continue overpaying for FAs.

Well he already overpaid in his first trade for a 3rd/4th liner.

I'm more worried that he is going lose Pleks for nothing. The flames locked up Stajen and Bourque, the Bourque deal is what the habs should have been doing 2-3 years ago with a guy like Ak46, pleks, komi. If you sign guys cheap instead of this stupid 1-2 year deals, you won't have to overpay in the longrun. If the deals are for reasonable contracts, it makes the player much more tradable afterwards as well.

To keep Plex, Halak, Price et el we needed signings like this 2-3 years ago: http://tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=311479

i have been saying for the past 2-3 years that Gainey needs to sign his young guys long-term. He was clearly behind the curve.

[saskhab]

A lower player maximum would just mean a lot of players would make the league maximum. It wouldn't trend the market downwards accordingly.

[hab29RETIRED]

A lower player maximum would just mean a lot of players would make the league maximum. It wouldn't trend the market downwards accordingly.

Agreed. YOu can't legislate against stupidity.

[hab29RETIRED]

Just read the following quote on habs inside out from Pleks agent:

"We talked during the Olympic break and decided to talk again after the NHL trade deadline," Curran said.

Is Gauthier nuts??? Talk AFTER the deadline???? I think i'm going to be sick :puke:

Either Gauthier is going to be dumber then even i thought, or Pleks is gone by Wednesday - either way, I think we are screwed :puke:

OIlers traded Grebeshkov for a 2nd round pick. definitely Grebeshkov>Moore. i'd rather have made that move then the one Gauthier did - followed by moving some of our dead weigh dman.

Edited March 1, 2010 by hab29RETIRED

[dlbalr]

Just read the following quote on habs inside out from Pleks agent:

"We talked during the Olympic break and decided to talk again after the NHL trade deadline," Curran said.

Is Gauthier nuts??? Talk AFTER the deadline???? I think i'm going to be sick :puke:

Either Gauthier is going to be dumber then even i thought, or Pleks is gone by Wednesday - either way, I think we are screwed :puke:

I think that seals the fact that Plekanec is staying through the deadline unfortunately (in my opinion, he's gone no matter what anyways), that's why I pulled the Plekanec poll off the main site actually. On the positive side, there's talks before free agency which is a plus.

[KEEP26]

Just read the following quote on habs inside out from Pleks agent:

"We talked during the Olympic break and decided to talk again after the NHL trade deadline," Curran said.

Is Gauthier nuts??? Talk AFTER the deadline???? I think i'm going to be sick :puke:

Either Gauthier is going to be dumber then even i thought, or Pleks is gone by Wednesday - either way, I think we are screwed :puke:

OIlers traded Grebeshkov for a 2nd round pick. definitely Grebeshkov>Moore. i'd rather have made that move then the one Gauthier did - followed by moving some of our dead weigh dman.

i think gauthier puts plex name on the trade block and if he gets a deal he likes his gone, if not he try to resign him..

[ForumGhost]

To be fair, Ott is the kind of guy any GM would want to have playing for them. Not only is he a fighter, he's a big-time agitator, probably one of the best combinations in the league, along with Neil and a few others. He's a big piece of the Stars, even if he doesn't put up points. I expect Pleks to get done for about 4 mil, which is fair.

[Prime Minister Koivu]

Just read the following quote on habs inside out from Pleks agent:

"We talked during the Olympic break and decided to talk again after the NHL trade deadline," Curran said.

Is Gauthier nuts??? Talk AFTER the deadline???? I think i'm going to be sick :puke:

Either Gauthier is going to be dumber then even i thought, or Pleks is gone by Wednesday - either way, I think we are screwed :puke:

OIlers traded Grebeshkov for a 2nd round pick. definitely Grebeshkov>Moore. i'd rather have made that move then the one Gauthier did - followed by moving some of our dead weigh dman.

I hope we trade Plex at the deadline then resign him in July.

Wishful thinking but it worked for the Blues a couple of times.

[BlueKross]

The good news is that the GM's don't have to make too many mistakes before they become EX-GM'S.

Bad Gm's are quickly exposed.

habs 29 Retired > This is my quote. The other statement that you included as my quote was the quote that I was referring to. I believe I deleted the owner of that quote to take some of the clutter away from the idea. Me bad. My reference refers to a post CBA scenerio. Prior to the last CBA, managers could just throw money at mistakes. Now the whole hockey nation are aware of the fisco side of hockey. We see players sent down for no apparent reasons, players bought out, players moved just to free up space etc etc etc.

[saskhab]

I think that seals the fact that Plekanec is staying through the deadline unfortunately (in my opinion, he's gone no matter what anyways), that's why I pulled the Plekanec poll off the main site actually. On the positive side, there's talks before free agency which is a plus.

Well, it either means Gauthier is satisfied a deal can be made with Plekanec, so he's free to concentrate on the rest of the roster, or he walked away privately disgruntled and told his agent they'd discuss things later... meaning he'll be dealt.

I don't think too much can be read from that comment. I've never been under the impression that Gauthier wants to deal Plekanec, and I've also never been under the impression that Plekanec wants to leave. If anything, it likely means a secondary trade (like Hamrlik or Spacek) to create the cap space for next year will not be made, since no deal is in place as of yet. One of those trades would likely wait until the entry draft/summer.

[dlbalr]

Well, we may wind out how much it costs for Plekanec sooner than later.

http://twitter.com/andystrickland/status/9887395349

The thing that interests me most is that there apparently was dialogue today which is good to see at least.

[Dalhabs]

Deal will likely be signed after the deadline IF!!!!!! we can manage to unload some unwanted salary before the deadline. Thats my guess.

[JacksonJ]

Deal will likely be signed after the deadline IF!!!!!! we can manage to unload some unwanted salary before the deadline. Thats my guess.

I don't like that word.

[Habsfan]

I don't know why soo many f you are so pessimistic about resigning Plex. With the departures of Laraque(500K), Metropolit (1 million) and Mara (1.675 million) we should have enough room to resign Plex at 4.25 maybe even 4.5 million$ per year. He's definitely worth it! the Habs can't afford to lose another one of their draft picks that has turned out to be a good player. What message would it send? That we draft players, develop them and then watch them go somewhere else when they hit their prime. It's bad for business!

Let's not forget that we won't be carrying these salaries... Sanford (600K), Jay Leach (500K), Dominic Moore (1.1million$)

Thats another 2.2 million saved.

[dlbalr]

I don't know why soo many f you are so pessimistic about resigning Plex. With the departures of Laraque(500K), Metropolit (1 million) and Mara (1.675 million) we should have enough room to resign Plex at 4.25 maybe even 4.5 million$ per year. He's definitely worth it! the Habs can't afford to lose another one of their draft picks that has turned out to be a good player. What message would it send? That we draft players, develop them and then watch them go somewhere else when they hit their prime. It's bad for business!

Let's not forget that we won't be carrying these salaries... Sanford (600K), Jay Leach (500K), Dominic Moore (1.1million$)

Thats another 2.2 million saved.

What are we paying the rest of the RFA's with then? Players like Pouliot, Lapierre, Sergei Kostitsyn, Pyatt, etc. Oh, and the 2 goalies of course. Need a 7th d-man to replace Mara/Bergeron, if it's Subban, he makes nearly $1 million on a cap hit. Also, Leach isn't on the cap now, so him leaving doesn't save anything.

If you saw my Deadline preview, you might have noted that the Habs are looking at having 6 forwards to sign and $6 million to spend on them, factoring in everything you've noted. No way it fits.

Here's the breakdown from that article:

Currently, the Habs have about $24.5 million in cap hits committed to forwards next season (including a Laraque buyout and Pacioretty being on the roster). Unfortunately, that only includes 6 forwards on the active roster as Plekanec, Moore, Darche, and Metropolit are pending UFA's while Pouliot, Sergei Kostitsyn, and Lapierre are RFA's. If we add in the roughly $25 million for d-men and goalies (from yesterday's article), we're looking at $6 million to spend on 6-7 roster spots. In other words, to say the cap situation beyond this season isn't ideal would be one of the bigger understatements of the year. As it stands now, there's no chance of re-signing Plekanec unless some cap clearing moves are made. Unfortunately, this may even get worse.

http://www.habsworld.net/article.php?id=1992

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

I'm no capologist, but my sense is that the Habs have chosen to join the ranks of Philly, Anaheim, Chicago, etc.. - teams that sign first and worry about the cap later. You don't have to be under the cap until the season starts (right?); therefore I wouldn't be surprised to see Gauthier sign Pleks to a contract that vaults us over the cap prior to July 1 and proceed to trim the 'fat' through deals thereafter. Of course this will mean losing assets for very little return. What I'm saying is that the cap in and of itself may not prevents the Habs from signing Pleks.

[dlbalr]

Correct, you can go over the cap in the offseason by up to 10%.

[saskhab]

I'm no capologist, but my sense is that the Habs have chosen to join the ranks of Philly, Anaheim, Chicago, etc.. - teams that sign first and worry about the cap later. You don't have to be under the cap until the season starts (right?); therefore I wouldn't be surprised to see Gauthier sign Pleks to a contract that vaults us over the cap prior to July 1 and proceed to trim the 'fat' through deals thereafter. Of course this will mean losing assets for very little return. What I'm saying is that the cap in and of itself may not prevents the Habs from signing Pleks.

At the very least, a guy like Hal Gill might get waived outright.

dblar, I think guys like Pyatt and Carle will be signed to pretty much minimum wage next year, like D'Ago, Chipchura, and Stewart were last year. Of course, those guys played like minimum wage players, so that isn't a good precedent...