JMartin's system just terrible

[MFT77]

It seems to be just a neverending story.

Habs outplayed and need stellar goaltending to keep them in the game.

40 plus shots again, and on the Sharks 3rd goal, just terrible positioning. At one point right before the goal, coulda put a blanket around the 5 habs.

Just sickening to watch.

[hab29RETIRED]

It seems to be just a neverending story.

Habs outplayed and need stellar goaltending to keep them in the game.

40 plus shots again, and on the Sharks 3rd goal, just terrible positioning. At one point right before the goal, coulda put a blanket around the 5 habs.

Just sickening to watch.

You're kidding me right???? Martin ACTUALLY has a system?????

unless you can count on hanging your goalie out to dry and hoping he steals the game.

or defencemen who don't know how to move the puck out of the zone.

Next year if Martin is still here, we really have to wonder about Gauthier. Anyone know if he is the one who hired Martin in Ottawa as well???

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

It's puzzling. There have been plenty of teams with far worse rosters than this one who have managed to play much better team defence. Hell, the Vigneault Canadiens were merely one example. So it either has to do with our small forwards getting outmuscled, or something is amiss with the 'system' and therefore Martin. I'd give JM until the middle of next season - you do need to factor in that this group was a complete unknown going into this season and there may be a total overhaul of the system over the summer to account for what we've learned - but if we're still getting barraged out there, then make a change. At the end of the day, Martin was sold as a guy who can bring structure and solid systems to a team. If these aren't there, what's left? Not good looks, I can tell you that.

Edited March 5, 2010 by The Chicoutimi Cucumber

[redondo]

I don't know CC, while I agree with most of your post, middle of next season seems pretty generous - I would hope that at this point in the season (almost the end of regular season) we would have seen some improvements, and at least better positional play.

I understand this was a 1/2 new roster, but that was back in September. While some guys are rounding into form nicely, that's more individual (or developing chemistry between couple of guys or a line) than truly team/system play, I could be wrong, but I would say that at least based on 25+ games I've had a chance to see this season I hardly see any improvement.

Finally, it also seems that Martin is unable or unwilling to match the tactics to the opposition, and this is especially worrying for the playoffs, if we make it. Guess we'll see.....

[saskhab]

You guys think the last game was lost due to the system? It was because the Habs were slower, smaller, and less skilled. It was about getting to loose pucks and firing them on goal. Every shift, Hamrlik and Spacek ended up thoroughly exhausted by the end.

Only goaltending and special teams will win you a game like that (or shoddy goaltending on the other end). The SH goal was the difference.

[ForumGhost]

Do you think JM runs a 'sit back and lose' system? If you blame last night's loss on the idea of the system, you are just naive.

I say the idea because in all honestly, this notion of the 'system' as people see it is frankly just a myth. There are only so many ways you can play the game of hockey. Sure, you can change the forecheck you play and how many bodies you have back, but what else do you think it really comes down to?

JM gets AT LEAST until teh middle of next season. Firing the coach is just a knee-jerk reaction that people think will is an instant turn-around ticket. So far, there have been no reports of locker room problems between the players and the coach or players and other players, so there is no immediate reason to get him out. I'm happy we finally have a coach with some experience. He's done fine by me so far.

Edited March 5, 2010 by ForumGhost

[Fanpuck33]

In my opinion, the Habs will never have success under Martin. I believe this because his style contrasts our roster. His system is good for a team with size who can clog up the middle of the ice. Our team does not have size. With the players Montreal has, they need a more more wide open system that can take advantage of the speed of their skill players. Individually, I always hear about Montreal having fast guys. Under Martin, I just don't see any of that speed whatsoever. The choice of Martin as coach wasn't a terrible one, but combined with bringing in the like of Gomez, Gionta, and Cammalleri, it was a horrible decision. In my opinion, that decision was the straw that broke the camel's back for Gainey's tenure in Montreal.

[lazy26]

Anyone know if he is the one who hired Martin in Ottawa as well???

I believe that he did, back in 96.

[Chris]

The sad part is the "Martin" coaching system in Ottawa keeps landing him jobs, the problem is he hasn't had 500 team since. That team had like 6 straight years of top 3 picks, anyone could have coached that talent to a playoff team.

I can only dream he is canned at the end of the year and replaced with Hartly or Boucher in hamilton.

Unfortunately mediocrity seems to be the plan for the near future.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

I don't blame the San Jose loss on Martin's system. It's more the shocking fact that our team continually gets outshot by some distance and is not consistently sturdy in its own end. Of course, newness and injuries to top personnel also play a part here. I'm not foaming at the mouth about Martin; but I just think it's a simple fact that we do not look like a team that is structurally sound on defence. That is usually a coaching thing more than anything else.

[redondo]

Do you think JM runs a 'sit back and lose' system? If you blame last night's loss on the idea of the system, you are just naive.

I say the idea because in all honestly, this notion of the 'system' as people see it is frankly just a myth. There are only so many ways you can play the game of hockey. Sure, you can change the forecheck you play and how many bodies you have back, but what else do you think it really comes down to?

JM gets AT LEAST until teh middle of next season. Firing the coach is just a knee-jerk reaction that people think will is an instant turn-around ticket. So far, there have been no reports of locker room problems between the players and the coach or players and other players, so there is no immediate reason to get him out. I'm happy we finally have a coach with some experience. He's done fine by me so far.

Well, call me naive, but I would think one of the things a good coach will focus on is strong positional play, obviously special teams, some basic, worked out plays and good/steadily improving communication between d-men and forwards. Other than maybe PP, I see improvement in none of the above from day 1 of the season to now, whereas I would expect at least some. Martin wasn't brought here just to get the guys to get along in the locker room, he was brought here specifically to instill a system with clearly defined roles, preferrably one that plays to our players' strengths, as Fanpuck points out.

I'm happy that you're happy with the results, but I'm wandering if you'd be saying the same if we were consistently getting average goaltending instead of good-to-great as we are on most nights......

[ForumGhost]

People talk like if we execute this magical 'system', we will automatically win every single game. Did anyone ever consider giving any credit to to Sharks. You know, one of the best teams in the league?

[Habsfan]

So it either has to do with our small forwards getting outmuscled, or something is amiss with the 'system' and therefore Martin.

I think it's a bit of both. Our forwards are so small, they get pushed off the puck easily, and the passive-aggressive system JM wants our boys to use is lousy! I hate it. It basically tells the other team, go ahead, attack all you want. All we will do is try to defend! Instead of aggressively forechecking (which causes other d-men to make mistakes deep in their zone), which might allow you to get a few more goals and a more comfortable leed.

I don't think Martin is going anywhere in the near future. He has a 4 year contract. Can you imagine if the Habs fire him in the next 12 months. We will have Carbonneau's salary, Martin's salary and the new coach's salaray on the books. At some point you gotta hold on to your coaches! You can,t simply replace them every 24-30 months... it makes no sense!

Edited March 5, 2010 by Habsfan

[Chris]

I don't have a problem with the top guys size, they have been the best players all year, they have also produced at that size during there carreees. I do agree the system doesn't match the team, The top 2 lines are skilled and have speed, sitting back wastes that.

The bottom 2 lines the problem is size, they have Moen, Lapierre every 2 weeks or so but the rest are soft.

Moen should be with Lapierre and some one like Torres.

Pyatt White next year should be with a big 2 way forward who is gritty. That will help.

They need a head hunter on the back end as well, If they could move a Hamrlik and go after Volchenkov type player to play with Markov. O'Byrne is the softest 240 pound guy i've seen.

BTW, Lucic got filled in by Orr last night, Orr drilled him like 6 straight times, even Cherry called him out for hiding behind the refs.

The habs need a fighter as well. Not to play every night, but 30-40 games

[Fanpuck33]

People talk like if we execute this magical 'system', we will automatically win every single game. Did anyone ever consider giving any credit to to Sharks. You know, one of the best teams in the league?

My opinion of Martin and his system has nothing to do with any one individual game. It has to do with the fact that we run a defensive system that leads us to be one of the lower scoring teams in the league and we still manage to give up the 4th most shots on goal in the league. Taking into account the fact we have 4 of the top 30 shot blockers in the league, I have little doubt the Habs give up more shots than any other team. Not much of a defensive system.

[Easy Ryder]

After more than 60 games he didn't mould to his player and no player really plays his mould

with success.

He talks and acts like someone in control and there is no sign of what he preaches really goes in the players head.

i think they don't give a schluk, just do what ask and take the paycheck.

Martin says that he wants puck possesion team.

When do we see a player keeping the puck in order to control it when the line changes ?

Never they dump it, the other team attack.

Why is this team horrible on 5-5 because they never create a 2-1. Most of these player

Gionta, Cammelleri, both Kost and even more Plekanek have success in these situation.

At equal force they are not big enought to force the zone to have a scrong chance.

And we want a captain, someday if possible if he finally knows his team enought to name one.

[Fanpuck33]

BTW, Lucic got filled in by Orr last night, Orr drilled him like 6 straight times, even Cherry called him out for hiding behind the refs.

Orr won in the end, but that was a pretty even fight. Lucic landed some good shots early, Orr landed some good shots late. Two of Orr's biggest strikes, though, hit Lucic's helmet.

[Chris]

Come on, there were like 6 heavy rights in a row then when they were split up Lucic hid behind the linesman.

Decision Orr

[Chris]

As a matter of fact i just read Orr broke Lucic's nose.

[Fanpuck33]

Come on, there were like 6 heavy rights in a row then when they were split up Lucic hid behind the linesman.

Decision Orr

Like I said, Orr won out in the end. But where are these 6 heavy rights in a row? I can only see two punches that caught Lucic clean, and two more that were half helmet and half forehead (a pretty stupid place to be punching a guy). Other than that, I see a lot of hits straight to the helmet and some wiffs. Orr is one of the top 5 fighters in the NHL right now, I'd said Lucic held his own.

[BCHabnut]

Pretty even fight except that huge haymaker to Lucic's nose. It's busted for sure. If it isn't, I would not want to tangle with Luch. Well, I wouldn't anyway, too old and chubby, but I bet his nose is busted.

[bar]

Haha it brought a huge smile to my face to see Lucic get popped right on the nose...hate that guy!

[Chips]

in an effort to bring this topic back on track... maybe.

I feel that Martin does have a system. A few of us who actually listen to pre-game and post-game and actually analyze his style of play could deduce the following.

a) He has a system ( not ones saying its good )

b) It clearly not working out yet ( give them time, the team needs to gel, plus they came off a pretty good break, and besides Halak, Price needs a solid D, its not been there this season )

c) Martin like to go to the net and pick up the garbage.

d) He like to give the purely offensive players free roam to create, with one exception everyone comes back to help out.

e) He like to protect leads by play the trap when ever possible. ( But lately he has tweaked that just a bit by trying to put constant pressure in the offensive zone, works with young kids the dogs but not with rusty vets )

f) He looks to balance Size and Speed; Skill and Leadership in each of his pairs of defensemen. ( latest experimental pairings are... Markov and O'Burner; Hammer and Spaceman, Giller and Gorgeous ) not sure if I really want to see the M squared defensive pairing back... MABS and MARa'S ... But don't mind having MAB's on the PP with Markov.

My final observation and then lets see what everyone else thinks...

g) Martin will play and give ice time to those that deliver, he plays his stars and gives them a chance to earn their cheques ( gomez has still not earned anything yet..! ) He loves Gionta and CAMMY; Plexi and Markov; He has no problem sidelining the under achiever and bring up and down players to show case them and give them a taste of the big time. Bottom line, the players like him and trust him and will play for him. And that is the BEST SYSTEM in my books!

GO HABS GO! GO HABS GO! GO HABS GO!

I asked for one thing this season, for the habs to surprise, and I for one am pleasantly surprised thus far, is their room for more MOST CERTAINLY! And there WILL BE!

GO HABS GO! GO HABS GO! GO HABS GO!

[RJP]

People talk like if we execute this magical 'system', we will automatically win every single game. Did anyone ever consider giving any credit to to Sharks. You know, one of the best teams in the league?

Sure, give credit to the Sharks for pushing in the 3rd and they're one of the best teams in the league, but that's not the issue here. We had no "push back" in the 2nd half of the 3rd period as our friend McGuire said on TSN . That's where I can't stomach Martin's behind the bench. That's where a coach is supposed to make a difference - try to get that confidence and motivation when your team is on the ropes like we were. I don't mind losing one bit if the effort is there but a pathetic display of lack of self confidence is why we lost 1 or 2 valuable points on Thursday. Also watching Plekanec targeted by the likes of Blake, Thornton, etc., (he must have done something to get them riled like that) and no support for him from anyone. I just don't feel like caring anymore right now.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Chips is right about one thing - Martin has done a good job in abolishing the old Carbo country club, instilling a legitimate work ethic where players come to play every night, and in punishing slackers and rewarding players who perform. This is a huge advance on the culture that existed prior to his arrival. The problem, of course, is that in terms of actual coherent on-ice team defensive play, we haven't advanced on iota over the Carbo years. But still: credit where due, this team now seems to have a level of team professionalism and commitment it previously lacked.