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Canadiens @ Flyers - Nov. 25th, 2011


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Tempers high after an afternoon game...Thanksgiving feast was yesterday people and

most of the players did get a night off yesterday. Probably the " rookie party".

Good thing is that Price is still a freakin good goalie. Just off a two shutouts.

With low drafted or free signings we dress 7 guys all defensemen. Highest rated was round 3, 3 of them have never been drafted. They do a very good job considering their paychecks and the rank they were picked.

Meanwhile Timmins did draft Hainsey, Komisarek, Fisher, Mcdonough....Tinordi.

I bring this and most of my comment is positive.

I just want to defend the defense that is doing whatever they can, with Gorges rippin

his heart and body as the heart and soul of this defense.

Diaz has done good and misses grit, for all the skating and gane creative he can get i give him

the spot over in Mara in the world.

Emelin is lookin like he doens't know what to do with a stick ? Say to him that this a thing to crajj on

numer 17 head of the big B team.

Gill is Gill, Subban is all flashes but with no heat he cannot shine. St-Denis well he has under a street under

his name.

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Weber looks awful and Carey is on.

This is the first time I can remember the TSN pundits being more optimistic about Montreal's chance than Habs fans are. Before the season people say things like "I hope Desharnais gets at least a 20

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/eyetooth One reason why I'm generally less negative and hostile toward JM and the team in general than some, is that I live in Vancouver, which means that I have the

Hainsey and Komisarek were drafted before Timmins got the job.

Timmins was hired just prior to the 2003 draft... even then he wasn't in charge until 2004... Andre Savard overruled him in taking Andrei Kostitsyn, Max Lapierre and Cory Urquhart.

Subban was a 2nd round pick.

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Woupss. Just the ponit that they are doing good for what was expected of them.

And one word for football fans around quebec city GO ROUGE & OR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I wouldn't mind McMaster winning, just to break up Laval's streak of dominance.

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I wouldn't mind McMaster winning, just to break up Laval's streak of dominance.

I did my undergrad at Mac. So Go Mac Go!

They need to match my other alma matter, Queen's who beat laval in the semifinal and went on to win the Vanier, two years ago.

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Can some people finally start to admit we need to BLOW UP this damn PP and the goals scored on the PP were against some VERY BAD teams???

We blow a pretty strong effort by Price, he really didn't have much of a chance on his goals.

The line combos suck, Pleks on the PP continues to suck, Darche with anyone sucks, and they started the game with ANOTHER damn too manay men penalty.

the PP will suck until a lefty can quarterback from the left it creates the ideal passing lanes

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It's been a while since I posted, but do follow the comments regularly and have 2 simple points after yesterday's game:

1. We don't really hit - we stick check constantly and get burned because we don't take the guy out of the play. Yes, I know we are small, but........

2. Who here in their hearts don't think we have what it takes to win most games? Even with key injuries aside, from what I've seen on certain nights (watched every game!), I know they can win against any team, if they want. When they want to play, they match-up against anyone - speed, passing, goaltending, defense support. When they don't - the execution, the poor mental decisions, the bizarre lack of motivation/speed going into the 3rd period down 1 or 2 goals, leadership on-ice, etc., etc. - they are the anthisesis of who I think they really are. Every team has games where their energy level is low, but something's or someone's not getting through to them DURING games like yesterday. So we can debate all we want about Pleks on the point, that Pacs/Cole should not be on the half-boards on the PP, defense inexperience, JM's coaching, whatever. To me, it's mental. Could it be we are a .500 team at best? I don't buy it.

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The injury thing is a bit funny. Yes we are missing Markov, which is huge. We are missing AK, Gomez, Spacek. We were missing Gill.

Gomez - who people want dumped to the minors or in the press box. So . no loss right?

AK - good games, bad games. the definition of a .500 player. :)

spacek - doing better this year, but most people target him as a "too old, dump him, let the kids play"

Gill (see Spacek).

So our injury situation hurts, but all those guys back won't make us contenders. Markov is a huge question mark, but I will grant you (and hope) that he comes back and plays great. That will help our PP.

I still don't see us being contenders. Pitts had if far worse and they are up at the top of the league. Every team has injuries.

I don't think we need to blow this team up, but I think we need to keep making improvements. If we are not in the playoffs as we approach the deadline, I hope they trade away as many of these vets as they can for picks and prospects. Gomez will have to go, and I think either Gionta or Cammy. Spacek needs to be replaced with a younger vet D. Get another cole type and a plek type center, and then I will drink this cool aide. I know those are not easy tasks for the GM, but standing pat is not going to get us anywhere.

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It's been a while since I posted, but do follow the comments regularly and have 2 simple points after yesterday's game:

1. We don't really hit - we stick check constantly and get burned because we don't take the guy out of the play. Yes, I know we are small, but........

2. Who here in their hearts don't think we have what it takes to win most games? Even with key injuries aside, from what I've seen on certain nights (watched every game!), I know they can win against any team, if they want. When they want to play, they match-up against anyone - speed, passing, goaltending, defense support. When they don't - the execution, the poor mental decisions, the bizarre lack of motivation/speed going into the 3rd period down 1 or 2 goals, leadership on-ice, etc., etc. - they are the anthisesis of who I think they really are. Every team has games where their energy level is low, but something's or someone's not getting through to them DURING games like yesterday. So we can debate all we want about Pleks on the point, that Pacs/Cole should not be on the half-boards on the PP, defense inexperience, JM's coaching, whatever. To me, it's mental. Could it be we are a .500 team at best? I don't buy it.

Any team in this league can beat any other team in this league on any given night. Sometimes our guys play great. Sometimes they are OK and the other team is sucking. Sometimes the other team is flying. Its the reason they play so many games and a long playoff series. Over time, the stats show who are the better teams. 25 games in, we are a .500 team. With Markov back and some minor tweeks, we can be a bit better. We are not a coaching change and Markov away from dominating the Bruins, Pitts, Philly, Minny, Dallas, etc.

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Granted Brobin, but I wouldn't say "Any team in this league can beat any other team in this league on any given night". The teams you mention in our Conference go into games with a clear higher chance of winning, that's why they are in the top 5. I'm referring more to the team as is and not needing those tweeks you mention, but rather to our mentality in games within games. My point is, I don't feel we should be a .500 team after 23 games despite the injuries, could be totally wrong, may have to get these rose-coloured glasses off :B)

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Wow, these guys were horrible yesterday. I'm happy I have a gig tonite, and can't watch this borderline-ahl shit show. The thing that gets me, more than anything else from a fans perspective, is how boring this team is. If it weren't for Emelin and Price, the entertainment value of the Habs right now would be the same as watching the New Jersey Devils during the Dead Puck era.

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I don't care if we're boring. That's what they said about Pat Burns's teams and I bet any one of us would give our eyeteeth to have those teams back.

Certainly it's harder to see these guys as 'contenders' after this rocky first quarter. Going in, I thought that with Markov back and Campoli adding high-quality depth to the D, with a strong 4th line C added in Blair Betts, with Gomez conceivably recovering his form, with the continued progression of the Holy Trinity (Price, Subban MaxPac), and with the key addition of Cole, we had a team that could go deep. That assessment was based, not so much through an examination of the team on paper, as an awareness of how strong the team had been in the previous two playoffs without MaxPac, Cole, and Markov. This group has always been more than the sum of its parts when the games really matter. Add three excellent players to that and in principle we should be major players come crunch time, whatever the experts say.

It may still be true. brobin's post above is interesting, though. Other than Markov, it's true that our currently injured guys aren't really core pieces. Yet the team is bobbing along at .500. What to make of this? One argument might be that the team is middling, period. Another is that team chemistry has been adversely affected by the endless round of injuries. Myself, I would say that the PP has been the secret of our struggles this season and that Markov's return will ramify hugely for the PP. You could look at that and say, therefore, that once he rounds into form we will start really doing damage. So the optimist can still take a glass-half-full approach.

Nonetheless, there is a certain point at which two players in particular - Cammalleri and Gomez - just do have to start producing (and if not Gomez, then either Eller or DD, not that it's fair to demand this of Eller at this stage of his career). MaxPac, Cole, Gionta, and Pleks have all pulled their weight. Cammy has been letting down the side and Gomer has been AWOL due more to injury than will, it seems.

A wishy-washy post, I suppose. But I'm still not quite ready to conclude that this group cannot contend if healthy.

EDIT: note also that we're 9-6 since the catastrophic early-season slump. That's a .666 winning per centage despite injuries and personal slumps. Let's keep that in mind.

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Don't get the Cammi criticisms. He's on a 22-goal pace despite playing injured for more than a few of his 18 games, and he's hit about 8 posts. Maybe we should heap criticism when he's been healthy for a 10 game stretch (hasn't happened this year) and he still isn't producing. How many players flirt with 25-goal seasons while playing on deeply cut legs and knee injuries?

Plus, the conversation is moot if he scores on even a third of his posts. I've watched hockey since the 70's and have watched close to every Habs game in the last decade, and I don't think I've seen anyone hit the post as frequently as him this season.

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I don't care if we're boring. That's what they said about Pat Burns's teams and I bet any one of us would give our eyeteeth to have those teams back.

Certainly it's harder to see these guys as 'contenders' after this rocky first quarter. Going in, I thought that with Markov back and Campoli adding high-quality depth to the D, with a strong 4th line C added in Blair Betts, with Gomez conceivably recovering his form, with the continued progression of the Holy Trinity (Price, Subban MaxPac), and with the key addition of Cole, we had a team that could go deep. That assessment was based, not so much through an examination of the team on paper, as an awareness of how strong the team had been in the previous two playoffs without MaxPac, Cole, and Markov. This group has always been more than the sum of its parts when the games really matter. Add three excellent players to that and in principle we should be major players come crunch time, whatever the experts say.

It may still be true. brobin's post above is interesting, though. Other than Markov, it's true that our currently injured guys aren't really core pieces. Yet the team is bobbing along at .500. What to make of this? One argument might be that the team is middling, period. Another is that team chemistry has been adversely affected by the endless round of injuries. Myself, I would say that the PP has been the secret of our struggles this season and that Markov's return will ramify hugely for the PP. You could look at that and say, therefore, that once he rounds into form we will start really doing damage. So the optimist can still take a glass-half-full approach.

Nonetheless, there is a certain point at which two players in particular - Cammalleri and Gomez - just do have to start producing (and if not Gomez, then either Eller or DD, not that it's fair to demand this of Eller at this stage of his career). MaxPac, Cole, Gionta, and Pleks have all pulled their weight. Cammy has been letting down the side and Gomer has been AWOL due more to injury than will, it seems.

A wishy-washy post, I suppose. But I'm still not quite ready to conclude that this group cannot contend if healthy.

EDIT: note also that we're 9-6 since the catastrophic early-season slump. That's a .666 winning per centage despite injuries and personal slumps. Let's keep that in mind.

This is the first time I can remember the TSN pundits being more optimistic about Montreal's chance than Habs fans are.

Before the season people say things like "I hope Desharnais gets at least a 20 game chance to try gelling in with the top 6" and then once the Habs are 1-3 in the second week of the season, it's "How can Martin be so stupid? Desharnais clearly isn't working!? He should use Eller! If we wait any longer, we'll be too late to make the playoffs." If people kept track of their thoughts over the course of the year, they wouldn't be swayed so easily by new developments.

One thing that keeps fans pessimistic is that they only get surface knowledge of how other fanbases are feeling. I encourage people to skim through other teams's boards on HFboards and read the panic and negativity on them. You'd never guess how many teams you envy have half their fans calling for the head coach to get fired. Surely, not two thirds of the NHL's teams can be in desperate situations at the same time. What's more likely is that hockey fans are just fickle and emotional. I've noticed the general tone on this board shift dramatically after each game, depending on if its a win or a loss.

I still think this team is in the top third in the league on paper. But it needs to get Markov back and it needs one of its three third line centers to play like a second liner. I've pretty much lost hope on Gomez ever hitting 50 points again and I'm skeptical that Eller or Desharnais are going to do well in that spot this season. I think the answer is just to wait until Eller gets better. Eventually he'll get to that level. Gomez can get out of here at the first opportunity.

What exactly are "eyeteeth" ???

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I don't care if we're boring. That's what they said about Pat Burns's teams and I bet any one of us would give our eyeteeth to have those teams back.

Certainly it's harder to see these guys as 'contenders' after this rocky first quarter. Going in, I thought that with Markov back and Campoli adding high-quality depth to the D, with a strong 4th line C added in Blair Betts, with Gomez conceivably recovering his form, with the continued progression of the Holy Trinity (Price, Subban MaxPac), and with the key addition of Cole, we had a team that could go deep. That assessment was based, not so much through an examination of the team on paper, as an awareness of how strong the team had been in the previous two playoffs without MaxPac, Cole, and Markov. This group has always been more than the sum of its parts when the games really matter. Add three excellent players to that and in principle we should be major players come crunch time, whatever the experts say.

It may still be true. brobin's post above is interesting, though. Other than Markov, it's true that our currently injured guys aren't really core pieces. Yet the team is bobbing along at .500. What to make of this? One argument might be that the team is middling, period. Another is that team chemistry has been adversely affected by the endless round of injuries. Myself, I would say that the PP has been the secret of our struggles this season and that Markov's return will ramify hugely for the PP. You could look at that and say, therefore, that once he rounds into form we will start really doing damage. So the optimist can still take a glass-half-full approach.

Nonetheless, there is a certain point at which two players in particular - Cammalleri and Gomez - just do have to start producing (and if not Gomez, then either Eller or DD, not that it's fair to demand this of Eller at this stage of his career). MaxPac, Cole, Gionta, and Pleks have all pulled their weight. Cammy has been letting down the side and Gomer has been AWOL due more to injury than will, it seems.

A wishy-washy post, I suppose. But I'm still not quite ready to conclude that this group cannot contend if healthy.

EDIT: note also that we're 9-6 since the catastrophic early-season slump. That's a .666 winning per centage despite injuries and personal slumps. Let's keep that in mind.

I had more hope at the start of the seasons for the very reasons you state. We should have taken a step forward with Cole,not a step back. I am still not sure if Gomez is going to bust or not. He has looked better, but he needs to play with Pacs and Cole.. If he hadn't gotten injured, who knows where he would be right now. I do fear that this soft start has killed any chance of him rebounding. I also think Cammy and Gionta are fading this year, which we just can't have.

If the PP gets better, I agree it will help significantly as it has clearly been the difference in several loses. Still won't make us a contender, but it might sneak us into the playoffs.

I have decided to be content this season watching the progress of the kids, PK, Pacs, etc. If we pick up the pace, great. If we don't, be a seller at the deadline and plan for next year.

I do need Boston and the leafs to lose, regardless of the state of the habs. I can't deal with a repeat of last year.

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I had more hope at the start of the seasons for the very reasons you state. We should have taken a step forward with Cole,not a step back. I am still not sure if Gomez is going to bust or not. He has looked better, but he needs to play with Pacs and Cole.. If he hadn't gotten injured, who knows where he would be right now. I do fear that this soft start has killed any chance of him rebounding. I also think Cammy and Gionta are fading this year, which we just can't have.

If the PP gets better, I agree it will help significantly as it has clearly been the difference in several loses. Still won't make us a contender, but it might sneak us into the playoffs.

I have decided to be content this season watching the progress of the kids, PK, Pacs, etc. If we pick up the pace, great. If we don't, be a seller at the deadline and plan for next year.

I do need Boston and the leafs to lose, regardless of the state of the habs. I can't deal with a repeat of last year.

I concur mostly with you and C.C. and i am still one who sees Half-full and love the experiance the injuries are allowing the rookies to get, i would have preferred to not of given up pick for the finn and would still have Engqvist on 4th line, but minor point and not really important, just hate given up picks for journymen 4th line centres every year.

I have crapped on Cammalleri enough, but need a couple of top 9 guys to at least hit the net on the PP, but Eller finally got some PP time which is great to see, just need Plekanec to get off the point and my (and many others) only 2 suggestions for PP tweeks will be done.

I really dont care what Boston or Leafs do, i still think Leasfs will fold soon and Bruins will keep doing very well, but got little to do with how the Habs are doing. Habs vs Leafs or Bruins will always be a 50:50 game no matter standings and usually fun/entertaining games to watch.

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One thing that keeps fans pessimistic is that they only get surface knowledge of how other fanbases are feeling. I encourage people to skim through other teams's boards on HFboards and read the panic and negativity on them. You'd never guess how many teams you envy have half their fans calling for the head coach to get fired. Surely, not two thirds of the NHL's teams can be in desperate situations at the same time. What's more likely is that hockey fans are just fickle and emotional. I've noticed the general tone on this board shift dramatically after each game, depending on if its a win or a loss.

What exactly are "eyeteeth" ???

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/eyetooth :B)

One reason why I'm generally less negative and hostile toward JM and the team in general than some, is that I live in Vancouver, which means that I have the dubious privilege of following debates in Canucksland. Well, guess what. Every time this team - by any account a major NHL power and Cup contender - struggles in any way, we hear endless fan ranting about

-a coach who stubbornly insists on mixing and matching his lines

-a coach who imposes a boring defensive system

-a coach who can't develop young players (Cody Hodgkins)

-an organization that throws away young talent (Grabner) and wastes money on big fat UFA contracts (Ballard)

-a management group that is just GLARINGLY stupid in failing to recognize the need for team toughness

-a goalie (Luongo) who OBVIOUSLY should be shipped out of town in favour of unproven youngster Schneider

-a team that should be 'blown up' because it lost in Game 7 of the Finals

-and, until the last two seasons, steady bitching about 'the Sedin Sisters' who were 'playoff flops' and would never amount to anything

You start to realize that, as BTH says, every passionate fan base has superhuman expecations of its players, coaches, and management; and you realize that no matter WHO we brought in here, it would not be enough for the fans, unless we win the Cup - and even that will only buy everyone maybe one year's grace.

So ya gotta step back from all the hysteria and try to come to an independent and results-based assessment of things. With JM, for instance, it is impossible to quarrel with his results up to this point. As for the other stuff, bring another coach in and a new set of complaints would emerge (or, in the case of line juggling and player development, the same old complaints). The team is .666 since the big slump; this suggests we shouldn't fly off the handle every time we lose a game. Cammy is struggling now, but he is a proven clutch player; things will only improve when Markov gets back; etc.

The grass always looks greener. But in fact our own little patch might be pretty good. ;)

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The injury thing is a bit funny. Yes we are missing Markov, which is huge. We are missing AK, Gomez, Spacek. We were missing Gill.

Gomez - who people want dumped to the minors or in the press box. So . no loss right?

AK - good games, bad games. the definition of a .500 player. :)

spacek - doing better this year, but most people target him as a "too old, dump him, let the kids play"

Gill (see Spacek).

So our injury situation hurts, but all those guys back won't make us contenders. Markov is a huge question mark, but I will grant you (and hope) that he comes back and plays great. That will help our PP.

I still don't see us being contenders. Pitts had if far worse and they are up at the top of the league. Every team has injuries.

I don't think we need to blow this team up, but I think we need to keep making improvements. If we are not in the playoffs as we approach the deadline, I hope they trade away as many of these vets as they can for picks and prospects. Gomez will have to go, and I think either Gionta or Cammy. Spacek needs to be replaced with a younger vet D. Get another cole type and a plek type center, and then I will drink this cool aide. I know those are not easy tasks for the GM, but standing pat is not going to get us anywhere.

The injury thing is a bit funny. Yes we are missing Markov, which is huge. We are missing AK, Gomez, Spacek. We were missing Gill.

Gomez - who people want dumped to the minors or in the press box. So . no loss right?

AK - good games, bad games. the definition of a .500 player. :)

spacek - doing better this year, but most people target him as a "too old, dump him, let the kids play"

Gill (see Spacek).

So our injury situation hurts, but all those guys back won't make us contenders. Markov is a huge question mark, but I will grant you (and hope) that he comes back and plays great. That will help our PP.

I still don't see us being contenders. Pitts had if far worse and they are up at the top of the league. Every team has injuries.

I don't think we need to blow this team up, but I think we need to keep making improvements. If we are not in the playoffs as we approach the deadline, I hope they trade away as many of these vets as they can for picks and prospects. Gomez will have to go, and I think either Gionta or Cammy. Spacek needs to be replaced with a younger vet D. Get another cole type and a plek type center, and then I will drink this cool aide. I know those are not easy tasks for the GM, but standing pat is not going to get us anywhere.

I disagree with you on your assessment about Ak46. AK46 is a goal scorer - a guy who is a pretty solid 25 goal scorer with the habs and will probably score 35 somewhere else. By that very nature he is going to be streaky. If we have a healthy forward core of Pleks, Cammy, Gionta, Cammy, MaxPac, Eller, DD, all of whom will alternate at times in producing we have a pretty solid forward core, with three big physical forwards who can score in Eller, Maxpac and Cole and Eller should also get there if Martin ever gives this guy a fair shake by playing him with 4th liners or ECHL crap like Darche.

The other key is having a healthy D that consists of at least Markov, Subban, GOrges, Eller, Weber, Emelin with Spacek/Gill alternating in the 6th man role. Campoli to me is depth, providing a similar role as Weber, Diaz, but just with a little more NHL experience.

Gomez is dead weight at this point. Based on his play this year, Darche does not belong in the NHL and possibly not even in the AHL.

But to me AK46 and Markov are both core players - I really don't understand why some people are so dismissive of AK46. The guy hits, scores and is pretty solid defensively. Yes he is prone to take dumb penalties, but given he plays a physical game, he still takes less bonehead penalties then Gomez has. The only difference is that when AK46 has taken a penalty Martin nails his ass to the bench or the pressbox last year, while Gomez really never has been held accountable by Martin.

The other issue we have is that we pretty much have AHLers on the 4th line. As i've said, i want to get rid of Darche and ensure Moen stays on the 4th line with White once he is back.

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http://www.thefreedi...ry.com/eyetooth :B)

One reason why I'm generally less negative and hostile toward JM and the team in general than some, is that I live in Vancouver, which means that I have the dubious privilege of following debates in Canucksland. Well, guess what. Every time this team - by any account a major NHL power and Cup contender - struggles in any way, we hear endless fan ranting about

-a coach who stubbornly insists on mixing and matching his lines

-a coach who imposes a boring defensive system

-a coach who can't develop young players (Cody Hodgkins)

-an organization that throws away young talent (Grabner) and wastes money on big fat UFA contracts (Ballard)

-a management group that is just GLARINGLY stupid in failing to recognize the need for team toughness

-a goalie (Luongo) who OBVIOUSLY should be shipped out of town in favour of unproven youngster Schneider

-a team that should be 'blown up' because it lost in Game 7 of the Finals

-and, until the last two seasons, steady bitching about 'the Sedin Sisters' who were 'playoff flops' and would never amount to anything

You start to realize that, as BTH says, every passionate fan base has superhuman expecations of its players, coaches, and management; and you realize that no matter WHO we brought in here, it would not be enough for the fans, unless we win the Cup - and even that will only buy everyone maybe one year's grace.

So ya gotta step back from all the hysteria and try to come to an independent and results-based assessment of things. With JM, for instance, it is impossible to quarrel with his results up to this point. As for the other stuff, bring another coach in and a new set of complaints would emerge (or, in the case of line juggling and player development, the same old complaints). The team is .666 since the big slump; this suggests we shouldn't fly off the handle every time we lose a game. Cammy is struggling now, but he is a proven clutch player; things will only improve when Markov gets back; etc.

The grass always looks greener. But in fact our own little patch might be pretty good. ;)

As I am in Vancouver as well I agree. Its easier to avoid getting caught up in the whole mania that is the habs media out here. Thats half the problem imo. In hockey crazy cities the media blows everything up and uninformed fans start trashing things like systems that they themselves don't understand! haha

I do not understand why people freakout when we lose right now. That losing streak was a brutal way to start the season, but every team will have one. As Chicoutimi said, we have been playing .666 hockey since then, without Markov and half our d! Cammy will pick up, if not, he will destroy in the playoffs. I'd rather have him then a high scoring season performer...

Just avoid the media hyperactivity.

(Though I don't like JM, but... that doesn't have anything to do with if we win or lose)

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So does that make you, bbp, an informed fan? Just take at look at our performance over the last 10 games. Pay special attention to how much ground we've made up over teams above us in the standings. Honestly, who cares if people are freaking out? That's what these silly websites are for. If this site was full of "nice" talk, I wouldn't read a word. I've never called for the coach to be fired, but if he is, I wouldn't care. And I'd defend people like hab29's right to say he should be fired.

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So does that make you, bbp, an informed fan? Just take at look at our performance over the last 10 games. Pay special attention to how much ground we've made up over teams above us in the standings. Honestly, who cares if people are freaking out? That's what these silly websites are for. If this site was full of "nice" talk, I wouldn't read a word. I've never called for the coach to be fired, but if he is, I wouldn't care. And I'd defend people like hab29's right to say he should be fired.

I don't quite get what that means, but we have been playing fairly well imo. We have been really injured and have still won. We are beating the teams we should beat. We got points against Pit and Buf. I think its solid results when we are as injured as we are.

I agree that if this was all nice talk that none of us would be reading this. I was saying there are people who just say, blame the system blame the coach and they are only saying it cause of what they hear on the radio or on tv. I totally support people like hab29's right to say he should be fired because... he obviously knows what he is talking about and isn't just caught up in the media frenzy. My comments about uninformed fans was mainly directed at what I see here in Vancouver with a lot of bandwaggoners.

People on this site, for example, give a better view of how we are doing then the media who has to be concerned about ratings.

I just think that if people get the majority of information on their team from a media source they should take things with a grain of salt.

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People on this site, for example, give a better view of how we are doing then the media who has to be concerned about ratings.

I just think that if people get the majority of information on their team from a media source they should take things with a grain of salt.

Well said, this is the reason that I love this board so much. There are many different people with many different opinions, yet most can at least back up their thoughts with logical explanations. It is a really nice break from the major media outlets that tend to twist things whichever way they want. Uninformed fans, who shoot off at the mouth are the ones I dispise, whether they are Habs fans or any other team's.

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Well said, this is the reason that I love this board so much. There are many different people with many different opinions, yet most can at least back up their thoughts with logical explanations. It is a really nice break from the major media outlets that tend to twist things whichever way they want. Uninformed fans, who shoot off at the mouth are the ones I dispise, whether they are Habs fans or any other team's.

Agreed

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Don't get the Cammi criticisms. He's on a 22-goal pace despite playing injured for more than a few of his 18 games, and he's hit about 8 posts. Maybe we should heap criticism when he's been healthy for a 10 game stretch (hasn't happened this year) and he still isn't producing. How many players flirt with 25-goal seasons while playing on deeply cut legs and knee injuries?

Plus, the conversation is moot if he scores on even a third of his posts. I've watched hockey since the 70's and have watched close to every Habs game in the last decade, and I don't think I've seen anyone hit the post as frequently as him this season.

But he hasn't scored.and $6 million for a 22 goal season is no good enough. Sure Cammalleri has been injured and sure he has been very good in the playoffs for back to back years but unless he starts producing then there may not be a playoffs for him to even play in.

What angers em most about Cammalleri is that he plays selfish. What I mean by this is his effort. On way too many occassions the opposition separates from him because his feet are not moving. Secondly he bails way too often when someone exudes some physicality. He plays as though he is afraid to get injured again instead of getting the puck out of the zone or making the difficult play.

I'm hoping Markov has a huge effect on his production on the PP otherwise it may be time to move him.

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