Fire Jacques Martin

[dlbalr]

Do you really see Tampa giving him the same clause? The ability to switch to another team in your own conference?

If they did, it'd be an offseason move. There's no way that they'd allow a coach to voluntarily jump ship midseason to go elsewhere.

[hab29RETIRED]

This would be great if it was true, but sounds like fantasy and BS to me. What GM in their right mind would grant ANY coach (including the great Bowman) an out clause to join another team. Boucher turned down Columbus because he is no dummy. Bowman would have struggled with that sorry ass team that Howsan has put together. His precessor, Doug Maclean was an idiot who pretty much blames all of the jackets problems on zherdev.

Incidently, did anyone hear Doug Maclean on sportsnet radio this past week. He went on and on and on, about what a "Gentleman that Zdeno Chara is. How if he wanted he could really hurt guys, but he plays the game like a gentleman. He then rambled on about how easy he went on Robyn Reghr and even when fighting, Chara is such a gentleman. I felt like throwing up listening to the BS from that blow hard loser.

I'd be willing to bet money that should Montreal come calling, Boucher would leave Tampa in a heartbeat. Blue Jacket insiders said that one of the major sticking points when they tried to hire Boucher was that they wouldn't give him a Montreal out clause in his contract.

[hab29RETIRED]

If they did, it'd be an offseason move. There's no way that they'd allow a coach to voluntarily jump ship midseason to go elsewhere.

No way this is possible. Earliest BOucher will be able to leave - unless he gets fired is when his three year deal is up.

[Commandant]

I wanna see the lineups for Tuesday's game.  It will tell the tail of how good of a coach Martin really is.  Gionta has 1A and -10 in his last 7 games.  Kostitsyn has 2G 1A and -1 in his last 3.  If Kostitsyn is on the 3rd line and Gionta graces the top 2 it shows how bad Martin is of a coach.  Giving offensive play time to a player not producing and not to someone who is.  Then again Martin has it in for Kostitsyn, the kid can get 50 goals in a season and Martin will ride his ass on the 3rd and 4th lines all year.

Kostitsyn and Eller have chemistry. Kostitsyn should absolutely play on a line with Eller. Yes Kostitsyn is playing better than Gionta, but one of the reasons Kostitsyn is playing well is because he clicks with the centre he is playing with and has for over a year now. Why you'd split up that combo to put him with Plekanec doesn't make any sense. Leaving him with Eller isn't bad coaching, in fact I'd say its quite the opposite.

[hab29RETIRED]

Kostitsyn and Eller have chemistry. Kostitsyn should absolutely play on a line with Eller. Yes Kostitsyn is playing better than Gionta, but one of the reasons Kostitsyn is playing well is because he clicks with the centre he is playing with and has for over a year now. Why you'd split up that combo to put him with Plekanec doesn't make any sense. Leaving him with Eller isn't bad coaching, in fact I'd say its quite the opposite.

I'd argue Eller is playing well becuase of Ak46.

I'd keep them together, since Eller has produced well with AK46, but I would like to see them also get either MaxPac or Cole on that line. Having said that, i'd have no issue with him going back with Plex either if they get cold, AK46 and Plex have shown good chemistry. Plex and Gionta have absolutely no chemistry. I'd put Gionta with Cole/MaxPac and DD. Have Cammy, Plex and Leblanc together. I think Plex would be a great guy for Leblanc to learn from.

When Gomez comes back, I'd return Leblanc to juniors and give Gomez one last shot on the third line.

[Commandant]

I'd argue Eller is playing well becuase of Ak46.

I'd keep them together, since Eller has produced well with AK46, but I would like to see them also get either MaxPac or Cole on that line.  Having said that, i'd have no issue with him going back with Plex either if they get cold, AK46 and Plex have shown good chemistry.  Plex and Gionta have absolutely no  chemistry.  I'd put Gionta with Cole/MaxPac and DD.  Have Cammy, Plex and Leblanc together.  I think Plex would be a great guy for Leblanc to learn from.

When Gomez comes back, I'd return Leblanc to juniors and give Gomez one last shot on the third line.

I agree that if Eller-Kosty gets cold you can put Kosty back with Pleks; but for now I think you have to keep him with Eller.As for what to do with the rest, I don't know... but Gionta - Plek is something I would break up. I might even consider Gionta with Eller and Kosty.

[Davehab]

I agree that if Eller-Kosty gets cold you can put Kosty back with Pleks; but for now I think you have to keep him with Eller.As for what to do with the rest, I don't know... but Gionta - Plek is something I would break up. I might even consider Gionta with Eller and Kosty.

thats not a bad idea but I really dont want to see moen with Pleks and Cammy.

I am actually starting to think that Plekanec could be a mismatch with alot of our wingers.....

[JCPetit]

thats not a bad idea but I really dont want to see moen with Pleks and Cammy.

I am actually starting to think that Plekanec could be a mismatch with alot of our wingers.....

Let's face it: Plekanec is not a great playmaker.

I'd argue Eller is playing well becuase of Ak46.

I'd keep them together, since Eller has produced well with AK46, but I would like to see them also get either MaxPac or Cole on that line. Having said that, i'd have no issue with him going back with Plex either if they get cold, AK46 and Plex have shown good chemistry. Plex and Gionta have absolutely no chemistry. I'd put Gionta with Cole/MaxPac and DD. Have Cammy, Plex and Leblanc together. I think Plex would be a great guy for Leblanc to learn from.

When Gomez comes back, I'd return Leblanc to juniors and give Gomez one last shot on the third line.

Well, it would be quite a demotion for a young man who has played very well at the NHL level so far... LOL

[hab29RETIRED]

Let's face it: Plekanec is not a great playmaker.

Well, it would be quite a demotion for a young man who has played very well at the NHL level so far... LOL

MaxPac started off with a bang with the habs but benefited from going back and dominating an playing lots of minutes, rather then then the 7-12 min.

Long term, Leblanc is better served in the minors, unless he is getting at least 15 minutes a night and continues playing with guys like Eller/AK46. Even right now Eller is only getting 11-13 minutes a night and for the most of the season he has played with scrubs.

Chances are Martin will also have Leblanc playing with the likes of Darche as soon as he makes some mistakes or Gomez comes back. Thanks, but I'd rather have Leblanc playing with skilled guys and getting a lot of minutes, rather then regressing in a 4th line role.

I'd also disagree about pleks not being a good playmaker. it would help if guys like Cammy and Gionta played like they cared - which for the most part they haven't for the past 3 weeks (last game was an exception). Pleks has been overused and mis-used all year.

[Commandant]

<p>

MaxPac started off with a bang with the habs but benefited from going back and dominating an playing lots of minutes, rather then then the 7-12 min.

Long term, Leblanc is better served in the minors, unless he is getting at least 15 minutes a night and continues playing with guys like Eller/AK46.  Even right now Eller is only getting 11-13 minutes a night and for the most of the season he has played with scrubs.

Chances are Martin will also have Leblanc playing with the likes of Darche as soon as he makes some mistakes or Gomez comes back.  Thanks, but I'd rather have Leblanc playing with skilled guys and getting a lot of minutes, rather then regressing in a 4th line role.

I'd also disagree about pleks not being a good playmaker.  it would help if guys like Cammy and Gionta played like they cared - which for the most part they haven't for the past 3 weeks (last game was an exception).  Pleks has been overused and mis-used all year.

To me Gionta has been the only scoring winger who was put with Pleks and couldn't play with him, most of the other wingers have clicked with him.  I just think sometimes two guys don't mix, and thats the case with Gionta and Pleks.  They are oil and water out there in the offensive zone. I'd play Patches with Plek on his return, and try to find somewhere else to put Gionta.

[JoeLassister]

I might be alone in my boat, but I don't see Leblanc being anything more than a 3rd liner in the NHL for his whole career...

Don't get me wrong, I like what I see and I have all the respect for the Madden, Draper and Lehtinen of this game, but this is where I picture Leblanc : a good, consistent and reliable 3rd liner.

Maybe I'm wrong... Time will tell.

[sakiqc]

I might be alone in my boat, but I don't see Leblanc being anything more than a 3rd liner in the NHL for his whole career...

Don't get me wrong, I like what I see and I have all the respect for the Madden, Draper and Lehtinen of this game, but this is where I picture Leblanc : a good, consistent and reliable 3rd liner.

Maybe I'm wrong... Time will tell.

i think we had even lower expectations for plekanec. he was never a top pts producer in junior levels but he had speed and strong hockey IQ. even with flaws, players who have high hockey IQ are able to maximize their one or two forces and develop into solid/valuable players. leblanc seem pretty bright and to have an above average hockey sense.. hmm joe juneau had some very productive offensive years and developed into a solid defensive specialist. not sure if the comparison is good, i just thought of it. what do you think?

[JoeLassister]

i think we had even lower expectations for plekanec. he was never a top pts producer in junior levels but he had speed and strong hockey IQ. even with flaws, players who have high hockey IQ are able to maximize their one or two forces and develop into solid/valuable players. leblanc seem pretty bright and to have an above average hockey sense.. hmm joe juneau had some very productive offensive years and developed into a solid defensive specialist. not sure if the comparison is good, i just thought of it. what do you think?

Indeed, the expectations for Plex were down and the comparison with Joe Juneau is a fit IMO.

We're talking about all-around players that can put up 70+ pts seasons from time to time depending on momentum, injuries, linemates, etc.

If Leblanc's linemates remain offensive guys like AK in the future, then a 3rd liner with above average hockey IQ like Leblanc has every chance in the world to put up this kind of seasons.

But I don't expect (and certainly don't want) to see Leblanc becoming a top liner with the Habs. That would mean that we can't dress anyone better than him offensively and that would be too scary.

[Fanpuck33]

This would be great if it was true, but sounds like fantasy and BS to me. What GM in their right mind would grant ANY coach (including the great Bowman) an out clause to join another team. Boucher turned down Columbus because he is no dummy. Bowman would have struggled with that sorry ass team that Howsan has put together. His precessor, Doug Maclean was an idiot who pretty much blames all of the jackets problems on zherdev.

It happens in other sports frequently, particularly football. Hockey, like any other sport, is a business. If the only way you can sign a guy is to make a concession like that, then you've got to do it. Would they rather sign him and possibly lose him before his contract is up or hire someone they think is a lesser coach? At least if you lose a guy to an out clause, you don't have to pay him like you do when you fire a guy, haha. How is it any different than paying a high ransom for a rental player at the trade deadline? That happens every year!

As for the Jackets, it was Howson and Hitchcock that ruined Zherdev and blamed him for many of their problems. I'll take MacLean over Howson any day of the week. Even at that, the Jackets main problem isn't the front office, it's that their minor league and pro coaching staffs simply are terrible at developing talent. You put a young guy like Boucher in there who has shown a great ability to develop players and I have little doubt that the team could take off and be quite successful. Unfortunately, we have coaching staffs that love the wrong players (i.e. Hitchcock loving Kris Russell who had no business being in the NHL his rookie year) and ruin the confidence of great talents such as Zherdev and Filatov. I still say had Hitchcock shown the confidence in Zherdev that he earned the first half of the 2007-08 season, he would be a regular 40 goal scorer and All-Star.

If they did, it'd be an offseason move. There's no way that they'd allow a coach to voluntarily jump ship midseason to go elsewhere.

Obviously.

No way this is possible. Earliest BOucher will be able to leave - unless he gets fired is when his three year deal is up.

Of course it is possible. Jacques Martin was still under contract with Florida when he bolted to the Habs.

[Commandant]

I might be alone in my boat, but I don't see Leblanc being anything more than a 3rd liner in the NHL for his whole career...

Don't get me wrong, I like what I see and I have all the respect for the Madden, Draper and Lehtinen of this game, but this is where I picture Leblanc : a good, consistent and reliable 3rd liner.

Maybe I'm wrong... Time will tell.

I think Leblanc has more offensive ability than his numbers to date really show. He was really on fire at the start of last year with the Junior. However he really slowed down after the shoulder injury. He got hurt at the WJC and after that decided to play, basically with one arm, and it really showed in his stats. I see a lot of nice things in Leblanc, and I could see him developping into a real nice 2nd liner with a two way game. He just needs more strength and I think he'll be really good at cycling the puck down low and getting to the net.

[hab29RETIRED]

It happens in other sports frequently, particularly football. Hockey, like any other sport, is a business. If the only way you can sign a guy is to make a concession like that, then you've got to do it. Would they rather sign him and possibly lose him before his contract is up or hire someone they think is a lesser coach? At least if you lose a guy to an out clause, you don't have to pay him like you do when you fire a guy, haha. How is it any different than paying a high ransom for a rental player at the trade deadline? That happens every year!

As for the Jackets, it was Howson and Hitchcock that ruined Zherdev and blamed him for many of their problems. I'll take MacLean over Howson any day of the week. Even at that, the Jackets main problem isn't the front office, it's that their minor league and pro coaching staffs simply are terrible at developing talent. You put a young guy like Boucher in there who has shown a great ability to develop players and I have little doubt that the team could take off and be quite successful. Unfortunately, we have coaching staffs that love the wrong players (i.e. Hitchcock loving Kris Russell who had no business being in the NHL his rookie year) and ruin the confidence of great talents such as Zherdev and Filatov. I still say had Hitchcock shown the confidence in Zherdev that he earned the first half of the 2007-08 season, he would be a regular 40 goal scorer and All-Star.

Obviously.

Of course it is possible. Jacques Martin was still under contract with Florida when he bolted to the Habs.

The difference there was that Florida wanted to dump Martin as the GM, but he had too many years left on his contract for them to be able to afford firing him. THis was reported at the time Gainey signed Martin that Florida was overjoyed the habs took Martin's contract off their hands.

As far as Maclean goes, who hired the idiot coaches the Blue Jackets had??? On numerous interviews, Maclean also has said that it is Zherdev's fault that he was fired. I have the same opinion of Martin, on the way he treats young players as you have descrived the Blue Jackets treatment of Zherdev and Filatov.

[hab29RETIRED]

Indeed, the expectations for Plex were down and the comparison with Joe Juneau is a fit IMO.

We're talking about all-around players that can put up 70+ pts seasons from time to time depending on momentum, injuries, linemates, etc.

If Leblanc's linemates remain offensive guys like AK in the future, then a 3rd liner with above average hockey IQ like Leblanc has every chance in the world to put up this kind of seasons.

But I don't expect (and certainly don't want) to see Leblanc becoming a top liner with the Habs. That would mean that we can't dress anyone better than him offensively and that would be too scary.

Leblanc like DD has something that can't be taught - Hockey sense and vision. So I think it is premature to pigeon whole him as a 3rd/4th liner right now. Unless you are a Crosby/Skinner/Duschene type of player, I prefer having guys pay their dues in the minors and be allowed to dominate - with the wacko media in MOntreal - particularly for french players, I think guys are better served paying their dues, rather then being treated and spoiled like prima donnas. I said the same thing about Latendresse and MaxPac - mainly out of the way Ribeiro turned out. With MaxPac, while he was languishing on the 3rd/4th lines with minimal minutes, I was pretty vocal hear that he should be sent down, rather then be ruined by Martin. The habs finally did send him down and MaxPac was able to dominate and get confidence.

I'd like the same for Leblanc. I absolutely DESPISE/HATE and am sick of Gomez. But, I'd rather have him in the lineup when he is healthy (unless the habs decide to Redden him to the minors, or find someone as dumb as Gainey to take him off their hands), then have Leblanc in the habs lineup, where Martin will invevitbly have him playing with Noki or Darche.

Hell Jordan Stall has been a 3rd liner most of his career because of defensive depth.

[TurdBurglar]

Leblanc-Eller-Kostitsyn worked last game, so JM splits it up and puts Moen-Eller-Kostitsyn together, putting Gionta on top line. Get rid of this joke of a coach already.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Leblanc-Eller-Kostitsyn worked last game, so JM splits it up and puts Moen-Eller-Kostitsyn together, putting Gionta on top line. Get rid of this joke of a coach already.

Yeah, fire this coach because he changed a line in practice!

[TurdBurglar]

Yeah, fire this coach because he changed a line in practice!

No, fire him because he can't keep working lines together, won't reward players who are producing points, won't demote players who are hurting the team, can't put together a working PP and can't put together a sustainable offensive strategy, and doesn't know his own players.

Kostitsyn is always getting shafted in ice time, with Moen as a linemate, Gomez is always getting a free pass to ice-time and oppertunities to succeed and is doing nothing with it. Martin has his core of players that he deems to be his offensive core and will give them all the offensive ice time even when their not producing. He doesn't adapt when other players produce points. The team is struggling under him, and the change needs to be made fast to give the Habs a chance to make the playoffs.

Only people who don't agree are the ones who are apparently happy with where the Habs are sitting in the standings and don't want to make the playoffs. Defend Martin all you want, reality is is has a sub-0.500 win percent with this team and in today's NHL thats not acceptable.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

No, fire him because he can't keep working lines together, won't reward players who are producing points, won't demote players who are hurting the team, can't put together a working PP and can't put together a sustainable offensive strategy, and doesn't know his own players.

Kostitsyn is always getting shafted in ice time, with Moen as a linemate, Gomez is always getting a free pass to ice-time and oppertunities to succeed and is doing nothing with it. Martin has his core of players that he deems to be his offensive core and will give them all the offensive ice time even when their not producing. He doesn't adapt when other players produce points. The team is struggling under him, and the change needs to be made fast to give the Habs a chance to make the playoffs.

Only people who don't agree are the ones who are apparently happy with where the Habs are sitting in the standings and don't want to make the playoffs. Defend Martin all you want, reality is is has a sub-0.500 win percent with this team and in today's NHL thats not acceptable.

ALL COACHES SHUFFLE LINES ALL THE TIME FOR ALL SORTS OF REASONS. Of all the arguments against JM this one is the absolute lamest. Any other coach we bring in here will do the same damned thing. Get over it.

[Commandant]

Leblanc-Eller-Kostitsyn worked last game, so JM splits it up and puts Moen-Eller-Kostitsyn together, putting Gionta on top line.  Get rid of this joke of a coach already.

Leblanc with those two worked for a period and a bit. Moen with those two has worked for the last year. This is a line with a proven track record, and you want to break it up because Kostitsyn had one goal while playing with Leblanc. And to boot it was a play where Eller and Kosty were passing between themselves at the end and Leblanc got a secondary assist.

[Willey101]

I might be alone in my boat, but I don't see Leblanc being anything more than a 3rd liner in the NHL for his whole career...

Don't get me wrong, I like what I see and I have all the respect for the Madden, Draper and Lehtinen of this game, but this is where I picture Leblanc : a good, consistent and reliable 3rd liner.

Maybe I'm wrong... Time will tell.

He won't be a dominant player but he'll be a 2nd-3rd liner. Has a great hockey sense, work ethic, offensive instincts. I can see him as a Chris Higgins or Clarke McArthur type of player.

[TurdBurglar]

ALL COACHES SHUFFLE LINES ALL THE TIME FOR ALL SORTS OF REASONS. Of all the arguments against JM this one is the absolute lamest. Any other coach we bring in here will do the same damned thing. Get over it.

So any coach we bring in will break up working lines, right. Any coach we bring in will put a checker with 2 scorers and limit their ice-time while expecting one of the 2 scorers to be one of the scoring leaders on the team, right. Guess thats why we see Neal on the 3rd line in Pittsburg, why we see Horcoff and Smyth on the 3rd line with Eager, oh wait we don't see that because a good coach doesn't put scoring players in checking roles! Makes sense now! Right now Gionta is averging 0.5 points per game, Kostitsyn is averaging 0.7 points per game, yet Martin is putting Giota on the ice in offensive situations over Kostitsyn. Limitng the ice time of someone producing more points and keeping someone not producing on the ice longer. That argument is lame? Wow....

Good coaches reward players for producing points, and limit players not producing points, but Martin is doing the opposite but pointing that out is lame.

I want this team to succeed and am pointing out it's biggest area of weakness. Either keep the coach and trade off aged players and contracts to tank the season to rebuild or fire the coach and make the changes necessary to be a real contender. I'd rather see us being a contender, but it will never happen with Martin behind the bench. Can't use the playoff run 2 years ago as a reason to keep him, Carbonneau brought us first in the east and he was axed when he started to slip after the All-Star break the very next year. Martin brought us to the Conference finals once on 2 series that could have went either way and hasn't done anything since. I'm sick of hearing how we're always the lowest or in the bottom 10 in almost every offensive category. Nothing exciting about watching a team sit on a single goal lead game, after game, after game, after game. Then you turn around and say it's not the coach that tells the team to sit back. That is faith into a failing coach.

Edited December 6, 2011 by Turd Burglar

[Commandant]

So any coach we bring in will break up working lines, right.  Any coach we bring in will put a checker with 2 scorers and limit their ice-time while expecting one of the 2 scorers to be one of the scoring leaders on the team, right.  Guess thats why we see Neal on the 3rd line in Pittsburg, why we see Horcoff and Smyth on the 3rd line with Eager, oh wait we don't see that because a good coach doesn't put scoring players in checking roles!  Makes sense now!  Right now Gionta is averging 0.5 points per game, Kostitsyn is averaging 0.7 points per game, yet Martin is putting Giota on the ice in offensive situations over Kostitsyn.  Limitng the ice time of someone producing more points and keeping someone not producing on the ice longer.  That argument is lame?  Wow....

Good coaches reward players for producing points, and limit players not producing points, but Martin is doing the opposite but point that out is lame.

You are arguing out of both sides of your mouth here. On one hand a coach shouldn't break up lines that are producing points... but on the other hand Gionta is being outproduced by Kostitsyn, so the Kostitsyn - Eller combo should be broken up and Kosty should replace Gionta. Seems to me that no matter what Martin does, you'd find a reason to complain about it. If he puts Kostitsyn with Plekanec and Pacioretty and Gionta with Eller, you'd complain that he broke up a combo that is working... if he does nothing, you complain that Gionta is being rewarded with extra ice time.

The fact is that Gionta has already been removed from the PP unit, so yes there has been a reduction in his opportunities which is equal to his production.