Permanent Trade Proposal Thread

[Link67]

How about the team just draft the best player available at 9th, which is likely Chychrun or Sergachev. Doing so boosts our confidence in the future of our top 3 d-men to the point where we make an offer to Edmonton that looks like this

Nathan Beaulieu and Lars Eller maybe a fringe prospect or a pick

for

Jordan Eberle

Edmonton drafts another impact forward at 4th in Dubois or Tkchuck which makes them more willing to trade one of their top 6 for a top 4 d-man they so desperately need. on the other hand, we have scoffed at the thought of giving up a future top pairing d-man like Beaulieu, but adding a Chychrun or Sergachev would certainly alleviate that cringing effect would it not? I just see 2 teams with 2 needs they can fulfill for eachother, and even more so now that I see what spot they are drafting and what they will be drafting from those spots. In the end, Dubois or Tkchuck is possibly going to be better than Eberle, and Chychrun or Sergachev will likely be better than Beaulieu, the trade offers short term advancement for both clubs, cap space is evenly divided after the trade and the long term effect is also a possible upgrade over what you gave up in the first place. They get a d-man that plays on their top pair next season, we get a RW that plays in our top 6 next season.

[illWill]

The main downfall to your proposal is that Beaulieu is better right now than what ever defenseman gets drafted. Habs need to upgrade their roster next season, not a few years from now. I am also surprised at the amount of times Nate is thrown around in trade proposals. He is very much needed on the left side and doesn't cost much at all.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

The main downfall to your proposal is that Beaulieu is better right now than what ever defenseman gets drafted. Habs need to upgrade their roster next season, not a few years from now. I am also surprised at the amount of times Nate is thrown around in trade proposals. He is very much needed on the left side and doesn't cost much at all.

Yep. Better to go the UFA route.

[DON]

Yep. Better to go the UFA route.

Possibly, but wont get a young star as a UFA, like a Hopkins, Eberle or Duchene.

Will maybe get a 20g scorer; but, for sure will overpay for a Ladd, Vrbata, Hudler, etc. Keep fingers crossed a Okposo or Eriksson see Quebec as a preferred destination.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Possibly, but wont get a young star as a UFA, like a Hopkins, Eberle or Duchene.

Will maybe get a 20g scorer; but, for sure will overpay for a Ladd, Vrbata, Hudler, etc. Keep fingers crossed a Okposo or Eriksson see Quebec as a preferred destination.

Yes, we will overpay for a UFA. That's the nature of the UFA market.

Those arguing for us to trade Beaulieu need to explain how we will fill the resulting hold on D, especially considering the ongoing regression of Markov. The only obvious answer is to overpay for a UFA left-handed D-man.

Except that there are fewer UFA top-4 L D-men available than top-6 FW. So the overpay will be worse, and the likelihood of success lower.

Trading Beaulieu is dumb IMHO.

[Link67]

its a realistic proposal though, both teams are giving up something in a certain area to upgrade another which is lacking. I'd rather a trade like this than free agency because it better uses our current cap. No way we get a guy as capable as Eberle at his cap hit in the FA market this year. Eberle comes in and is an immediate talent, PP help, 55 - 65 point scorer, Nathan isn't even on our first wave of PP as long as markov and Subban are there, so the impact isn't only in helping our current top 6 woes, it also helps our PP woes.

Pacioretty - Galchenyuk - Gallagher

Carr/Lehkonen - Plekanec - Eberle

Carr/Lehkonen - Danault - Andrighetto

Lessio - Mitchell - Byron

Subban - Barberio

Petry - Markov

Pateryn - Emelin

Doesn't look so bad to me, especially when you consider that the d-man we draft is a year or 2 away from making a strong NHL push, Barberio and Pateryn proved a lot this past season, their age and ability gives me the confidence to believe this defense corps could hold it down for a year or 2 effectively, while our top 6 becomes much more potent than it was the previously

[Link67]

Yes, we will overpay for a UFA. That's the nature of the UFA market.

Those arguing for us to trade Beaulieu need to explain how we will fill the resulting hold on D, especially considering the ongoing regression of Markov. The only obvious answer is to overpay for a UFA left-handed D-man.

Except that there are fewer UFA top-4 L D-men available than top-6 FW. So the overpay will be worse, and the likelihood of success lower.

Trading Beaulieu is dumb IMHO.

I really find it irresponsible to accept overpaying and overstretching in Free Agency when impending doomsday contracts like Galchenyuk, Pacioretty, and Price are all on the 1 - 3 year horrizon. there is more to this than just fixing next years team, we also need to ensure we can keep its good pieces together for a long period to make a few runs at this thing. Cap management is going to be crucial, while we try to upgrade the areas that lack the MOST. I think most of us agree our top 6 lacks the most.

[DON]

Yes, we will overpay for a UFA. That's the nature of the UFA market.

Those arguing for us to trade Beaulieu need to explain how we will fill the resulting hold on D, especially considering the ongoing regression of Markov. The only obvious answer is to overpay for a UFA left-handed D-man.

Except that there are fewer UFA top-4 L D-men available than top-6 FW. So the overpay will be worse, and the likelihood of success lower.

Trading Beaulieu is dumb IMHO.

Just to be clear, I didn't propose trading #28 again but...

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

If you think Barberio can play 20+ minutes per night, then obviously that changes the equation vis-a-vis N8.

What I do know is that we're not winning the Cup with a bottom-pairing guy playing huge minutes in the top-4.

[Guest Stogey24]

Barberio top pair, oh boy.

[DON]

If you think Barberio can play 20+ minutes per night, then obviously that changes the equation vis-a-vis N8.

What I do know is that we're not winning the Cup with a bottom-pairing guy playing huge minutes in the top-4.

and Penquins are winning how?

[Guest Stogey24]

and Penquins are winning how?

They wouldn't survive an 82 game season. It's like when Hamburglar(can't remember name) stood on his head down the stretch for Ottawa. It's some what of a mirage.

[Link67]

Barberio top pair, oh boy.

If you think Barberio can play 20+ minutes per night, then obviously that changes the equation vis-a-vis N8.

What I do know is that we're not winning the Cup with a bottom-pairing guy playing huge minutes in the top-4.

I do believe it, he was doing just fine when the injuries started happening, he was given big minutes for several weeks and was thriving before his own injury derailed what was a breakout season for him. I also know that we don't win a cup with a top 6 than consists of three 20 goal players. We can sacrifice a little on the defense to upgrade the offense because, 1. we have Price, and 2. because to acquire something you have to give something. Edmonton needs d-men more than forwards we need forwards more than d-men, simple equation.

i'm more comfortable with Barberio playing 20+ minutes a night based on what I saw last season from him, than I am with seeing Eller, Desharnais or Byron in the damn top 6, that is really the bottom line to my entire thought process here. And I think through a trade of my needs for your needs, and cap management in mind, it is the better option.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Defencemen are more important than forwards. There are fewer of them, and they have a crucial responsibility both to control the D-zone and propel the transition game. This is part of the reason that I disagree with Link67 on this. The related thing is that I do not agree at all that Barberio - who I like, and defended when everyone around here was crapping on his head - is a top-pairing guy, and if we use him this way, we will get badly burned. He will become demonized in exactly the same fashion that, say, Marc-Andre Bergeron was, Therrien will be denounced for his 'idiocy' in giving him big minutes despite the lack of options, and it will be an all-around disaster. Indeed, a single injury will leave the D-corps devastated, unworthy of NHL status. No, no, no.

[KoRP]

Indeed, a single injury will leave the D-corps devastated, unworthy of NHL status. No, no, no.

And that's the common sense way to look at it if ya ask me... Not worth the risk, as the D corps stands right now, I think Bergevin should see what Gilbert would take for a season or two for insurance of having a capable puck mover/veteran around for the depth.

[John B]

Perhaps the Habs should be looking at trading for a guy like Scott Hartnell. Big gritty winger that can score 20 goals from the second line and likely wouldn't cost as much as a guy like Eberle or Hall or whatever top liner might be out there. He has 3 years left on his current deal that pays him less than $5mil per season. Meaning his contract expires at the same time as Pacioretty's giving the Habs extra cap space to resign him (Pacioretty that is). Habs might also be able to offload a roster player as part of the deal that would help offset the cost of adding him.

As far as the cap goes. Desharnais, Eller, Emelin, Markov, Mitchell, and Plekanec all have expiring contracts in the next 1 or 2 years which will clear some cap space. Plekanec and Markov are the only ones so far that the Habs would not be able to replace internally. That could change in this year's draft with the 9th overall pick. Parenteau's buy out cap hit also comes off the books after next season. That's a total of just over $25M off the books in the next 2 years.

Bergevin should also consider signing Beaulieu and Galchenyuk to extensions this offseason. Galchenyuk had a 30 goal season, so signing him just got more expensive. Habs could've likely signed him to an 8 year/$6M deal (like Nugent-Hopkins, Duchene, Hall), but that likely isn't going to happen now. Whatever MacKinnon gets is likely going to be the comparison for Galchenyuk. Somewhere around $7M per season. Beaulieu hasn't had the same success yet, so now might be the time to sign him before he does breakout and than Habs have to pay him through the nose. He's probably worth around $4M per right now. Probably not on an 8 year deal, but maybe 4 years?

I'm not sure that this is a possibility, but the Habs should look into signing Shane Doan. I know he's a bit older and on the decline, but I still believe he has a couple 20 goal season left in him. He wouldn't likely sign for more than 2 or even 3 years max given his age, and the cap hit would be pretty reasonable (I would think). He's a character guy (which Bergevin likes). His professionalism and maturity are going to be great assets for the younger guys on this team. He also plays the game with some grit and has some size. The big question is wether or not Doan would be willing to leave Arizona. Perhaps the dismissal of Maloney and the sway of winning a Cup could help the Habs get him. Hartnell and Doan as second liners would go a long way to helping the Habs scoring depth, and their cap hits and term would not be crippling to the future of this team.

[DON]

They wouldn't survive an 82 game season. It's like when Hamburglar(can't remember name) stood on his head down the stretch for Ottawa. It's some what of a mirage.

I know, just food for thought, similar to Dallas with big offense and crap-d.

[Commandant]

How about the team just draft the best player available at 9th, which is likely Chychrun or Sergachev. Doing so boosts our confidence in the future of our top 3 d-men to the point where we make an offer to Edmonton that looks like this

Nathan Beaulieu and Lars Eller maybe a fringe prospect or a pick

for

Jordan Eberle

Edmonton drafts another impact forward at 4th in Dubois or Tkchuck which makes them more willing to trade one of their top 6 for a top 4 d-man they so desperately need. on the other hand, we have scoffed at the thought of giving up a future top pairing d-man like Beaulieu, but adding a Chychrun or Sergachev would certainly alleviate that cringing effect would it not? I just see 2 teams with 2 needs they can fulfill for eachother, and even more so now that I see what spot they are drafting and what they will be drafting from those spots. In the end, Dubois or Tkchuck is possibly going to be better than Eberle, and Chychrun or Sergachev will likely be better than Beaulieu, the trade offers short term advancement for both clubs, cap space is evenly divided after the trade and the long term effect is also a possible upgrade over what you gave up in the first place. They get a d-man that plays on their top pair next season, we get a RW that plays in our top 6 next season.

The thing with "just draft the best player available" is that you can ask 4 scouts who is the best player available at 9th and get 4 different answers. Its not clear that Sergachev will be better than say Jost or Keller, or vice-versa.

its a realistic proposal though, both teams are giving up something in a certain area to upgrade another which is lacking. I'd rather a trade like this than free agency because it better uses our current cap. No way we get a guy as capable as Eberle at his cap hit in the FA market this year. Eberle comes in and is an immediate talent, PP help, 55 - 65 point scorer, Nathan isn't even on our first wave of PP as long as markov and Subban are there, so the impact isn't only in helping our current top 6 woes, it also helps our PP woes.

Pacioretty - Galchenyuk - Gallagher

Carr/Lehkonen - Plekanec - Eberle

Carr/Lehkonen - Danault - Andrighetto

Lessio - Mitchell - Byron

Subban - Barberio

Petry - Markov

Pateryn - Emelin

Doesn't look so bad to me, especially when you consider that the d-man we draft is a year or 2 away from making a strong NHL push, Barberio and Pateryn proved a lot this past season, their age and ability gives me the confidence to believe this defense corps could hold it down for a year or 2 effectively, while our top 6 becomes much more potent than it was the previously

Barberio playing 25 minutes a night with Subban, against the other teams top players looks like a disaster waiting to happen.

He looked good on the third pair.

He won't look the same playing against top lines.

[Meller93]

could the 9th, Emelin and one of our seconds for Edmonton's 4th, work to clear cap space and get a better prospect?

[dlbalr]

could the 9th, Emelin and one of our seconds for Edmonton's 4th, work to clear cap space and get a better prospect?

That trade would accomplish that, yes. However, I have no idea why Edmonton does that trade. You don't trade down from a top-5 pick for an overpaid #4/5 defenceman and a draft pick around 40.

[habs rule]

could the 9th, Emelin and one of our seconds for Edmonton's 4th, work to clear cap space and get a better prospect?

Well that might work. Emelin has a lot of grit that they are looking for.

[Meller93]

That trade would accomplish that, yes. However, I have no idea why Edmonton does that trade. You don't trade down from a top-5 pick for an overpaid #4/5 defenceman and a draft pick around 40.

Well that might work. Emelin has a lot of grit that they are looking for.

dlbalr, I understand the point about the oilers not wanting to take back Emelin's salary, but even retaining 800K or so would greatly help our cap situation. As Habs rule mentioned, I think Emelin might actually be someone the Oilers could use at ~3.2 mill. Edmonton also stated an openness to trading the pick. Also I'm not sure if you missed that I included our 9th pick in the trade because you only mentioned Emelin and the second. I'm suggesting Emelin, a second AND the 9th. Unless I have a terrible trade value gauge I feel like that's not a bad offer.

[habs rule]

That trade would accomplish that, yes. However, I have no idea why Edmonton does that trade. You don't trade down from a top-5 pick for an overpaid #4/5 defenceman and a draft pick around 40.

Actually 2 draft picks 9th and 40 or so.

[DON]

If switched Emelin with Beaulieu (sorry Stogey) and scratched the 2nd pick it might be more appealing and realistic for Oilers to give up basically Tkachuk or Dubois for Sergachev and Beaulieu.

But, still seems like Habs are better off simply using the 9th pick.

[dlbalr]

dlbalr, I understand the point about the oilers not wanting to take back Emelin's salary, but even retaining 800K or so would greatly help our cap situation. As Habs rule mentioned, I think Emelin might actually be someone the Oilers could use at ~3.2 mill. Edmonton also stated an openness to trading the pick. Also I'm not sure if you missed that I included our 9th pick in the trade because you only mentioned Emelin and the second. I'm suggesting Emelin, a second AND the 9th. Unless I have a terrible trade value gauge I feel like that's not a bad offer.

I knew the 9th was in there which is why I said trade down from a top-5 pick, not trade out of the round entirely.

If a team is dealing away a top-5 pick, they need a core piece coming back. Alexei Emelin is not a core piece. He's not even close to one. To be a core piece, you need to be talented, cost-effective, and have several years of team control. Emelin's not that talented, is expensive relative to his role (even with your proposal to retain a bit), and has just two years left so he's not under team control for long.

If I'm the Oilers, why am I giving up a shot at a first line forward or top pairing d-man at the #4 pick to get a short-term 3rd pairing upgrade while dropping enough in the first round to take me out of that first line/top pairing D territory at #9? (Plus a mid-2nd round pick, yes.) Wouldn't they rather sign a $3.5-$4 M d-man in free agency and keep the #4 pick? They get someone around Emelin's calibre and a top-5 prospect that way.

Should the Habs trade back 5 or 6 spots in the 1st round to pick up an overpaid 3rd line forward that's signed for a couple more years while adding a mid-2nd in the process? That doesn't seem like an ideal use of cap space not to mention losing the better prospect in the pick swap. That's basically what you're suggesting Edmonton should want to do.