dlbalr Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 We've saved the most interesting trade option for last, Andrei Kostitsyn. Some thoughts to ponder... - What is the highest salary/term you'd be okay with him receiving to re-sign? (In other words, after what point is it too much?) - If he doesn't extend before the deadline, does he have to go for whatever the team can get or is there a cutoff point where it may be worth keeping him and try to get a deal done before July 1? - Where should his value be? - What teams would be the best fit for him? Feel free to add other thoughts as well. I'm not sure when this will be up though it'll be sometime this week barring other trades happening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 We've saved the most interesting trade option for last, Andrei Kostitsyn. Some thoughts to ponder... - What is the highest salary/term you'd be okay with him receiving to re-sign? (In other words, after what point is it too much?) - If he doesn't extend before the deadline, does he have to go for whatever the team can get or is there a cutoff point where it may be worth keeping him and try to get a deal done before July 1? - Where should his value be? - What teams would be the best fit for him? Feel free to add other thoughts as well. I'm not sure when this will be up though it'll be sometime this week barring other trades happening. 12 million for 3 years (4 million per season). Is the absolute max I'd give him. I think he gets more as a UFA though. If he's not signed before the deadline, it is an absolute must to trade him. No way you can risk him walking on July 1st. His value is probably a 2nd round pick + a prospect. However if a team gets desperate, I could see him getting a first rounder. This isn't likely, but could happen in the right circumstances. Best fits for him are LA, Pittsburgh, Nashville, and Calgary. Pitt needs another winger or two. Calgary has a ton of forwards injured. LA and Nashville always need to score a couple more goals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willey101 Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 Kostitsyn from the past 2 weeks has no trade value. Kostitsyn from the first 2 months of the season can fetch a 1st. When all is said and done he can get us a 2nd round pick. But a team like LA hurting for scoring might offer more. How would Andrei Kostitsyn to LA for Penner and a 1st sound? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 I have no interest in Kostitsyn returning. As for his return, at least a second round pick. I could see a team like Detroit or Vancouver giving up a first since they don't really need them as badly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willey101 Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 I have no interest in Kostitsyn returning. As for his return, at least a second round pick. I could see a team like Detroit or Vancouver giving up a first since they don't really need them as badly. I think if I am Montreal and Detroit is wanting Kostitsyn I may be more inclined to try to lure a young roster player. Forget a 1st, I'd rather see a return of Abdelkader and low pick or do one better and try to sweeten the pot to get a kid like Kindl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trizzak Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 Honestly... I bet he probably pulls in about the same value as what Alexei Ponikarovksy got the Leafs. Unless some team really loves him, I bet he's a late deadline deal after all the bigger fish have been fried. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willey101 Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 Honestly... I bet he probably pulls in about the same value as what Alexei Ponikarovksy got the Leafs. Unless some team really loves him, I bet he's a late deadline deal after all the bigger fish have been fried. That was a secound rounder was it not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 We've saved the most interesting trade option for last, Andrei Kostitsyn. Some thoughts to ponder... - What is the highest salary/term you'd be okay with him receiving to re-sign? (In other words, after what point is it too much?) - If he doesn't extend before the deadline, does he have to go for whatever the team can get or is there a cutoff point where it may be worth keeping him and try to get a deal done before July 1? - Where should his value be? - What teams would be the best fit for him? Feel free to add other thoughts as well. I'm not sure when this will be up though it'll be sometime this week barring other trades happening. $3.75/year max, and 3 year max deal (so $11.25m). I would hope Gauthier and Kostitsyn's agent would already have discussed, but if not extended come the 27th; trade for sure, just cant afford to have any more UFAs walk for dick-all. A 2nd round pick and prospect ( i chucked in prospect because i undersold Gill and more buyers than sellers). KIngs or Blues would be my guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 My hope with Kostitsyn and Moen is that we end up either with a first in 2012 and a second in 2013 or we get a collection of a 2nd in 2013 and a third with 2012 along with a prospect. Basically, I want Montreal to get an extra third in 2012 and an extra second in 2013. A second in 2013 would be more valuable than in 2012 if in fact Montreal can make a turnaround. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 12 million for 3 years (4 million per season). Is the absolute max I'd give him. I think he gets more as a UFA though. If he's not signed before the deadline, it is an absolute must to trade him. No way you can risk him walking on July 1st. His value is probably a 2nd round pick + a prospect. However if a team gets desperate, I could see him getting a first rounder. This isn't likely, but could happen in the right circumstances. Best fits for him are LA, Pittsburgh, Nashville, and Calgary. Pitt needs another winger or two. Calgary has a ton of forwards injured. LA and Nashville always need to score a couple more goals. I've already made it pretty clear we should keep AK46. I'd like to try and have at least 7 or 8 players with the potential to score 20+ goals next year AND be a physical presence. I don't believe Bourque is a suitable replacement. Even when AK46 is not scoring or producing offensively, he at least still tends to be physical. Bourque, goes through long stretches where he does ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. With Cole, MaxPac, Eller, Pleks and Gionta, I think we have 5 players with 20 goal potential. AK46 would give us 6. I'd like to move DD to the wing and pickup a true elite centre, who could be the 7th player (unless of course we can get Grigorenko at the draft), in which case we could have Pleks, Eller, Grigorenko and pick up a BIG/shutdown guy as the 4th centre). AK46 has already said, he's happy with money he is currently getting and WAS happy in Montreal. Issue is playing time and where he is in the lineup. Last night I thought he played a good game, but its pointless of having him with Gomez and White - regardless of how hard Gomez worked. I really think he should be paired with either eller or Pleks from now until the deadline and we try and sign him for 5 years at $3.5/M a year. Offer him a $3M signing bonus on July 1, which means his actual salary will be $3M for years 1 to 4 and $2.5M year 5. This makes him great value for us and also tradeable given his reasonable cap hit, coupled with his lower actual annual salary. PG and the habs NEED to start using the CBA to their advantage and make use of signing bonuses as a means of getting players to take less annually, for getting more front-loaded dollars. This will also lower the cap hit. This is what I had hoped the habs would have done with Gorges and Markov and I really think they shold take this approach with Subban and Price this year and possibly MaxPac (can they resign MaxPac after July 1 this year, even though his contact expires at the end of 2013???). This loop hole will probably closed off with the new CBA, so why not take advantage of it now??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 $3.75/year max, and 3 year max deal (so $11.25m). I would hope Gauthier and Kostitsyn's agent would already have discussed, but if not extended come the 27th; trade for sure, just cant afford to have any more UFAs walk for dick-all. A 2nd round pick and prospect ( i chucked in prospect because i undersold Gill and more buyers than sellers). KIngs or Blues would be my guess. I don't think they have discussed - I think PG will move him, despite the fact that the habs won't get good value for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trizzak Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 That was a secound rounder was it not? Luca Caputi and Martin Skoula. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted February 20, 2012 Author Share Posted February 20, 2012 PG and the habs NEED to start using the CBA to their advantage and make use of signing bonuses as a means of getting players to take less annually, for getting more front-loaded dollars. This will also lower the cap hit. This is what I had hoped the habs would have done with Gorges and Markov and I really think they shold take this approach with Subban and Price this year and possibly MaxPac (can they resign MaxPac after July 1 this year, even though his contact expires at the end of 2013???). This loop hole will probably closed off with the new CBA, so why not take advantage of it now??? The Habs already have a salary payroll greater than that of their cap payroll. Molson may not want to widen that gap even more, especially coming off a season where very likely revenues will be below budget due to there being no playoff appearance. They did throw a small signing bonus in the Gorges deal while Cole is making 1/3 of his $18 million this year, that deal is front loaded. Some teams are willing to do that for more, there's no guarantee the Habs' owner is also willing. As for Pacioretty, he can be extended as of July 1st. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habinator33 Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 I agree with the $3.75/year at 3 years for $11.25m. While I would like to keep Kostitsyn I think his time with the habs is over and I expect him to be traded at the deadline. While I think he does in fact like playing here I think he will leave via free agency to a team he thinks he can get more ice time from. I think his value on the market right now is a 2nd and 4th round pick. I expect him to be traded on draft day to either Blues, Rangers, Penguins, or Kings with Kings being my front runner if they fail to land a bigger fish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 While AK has said he'll take less than market value to stay, he's never defined that amount. He's never said what he thinks his market value is, nor how much less than market value he'd be willing to take. Also at no point has he ever compared this year's salary with his expectations going forward. Let's not put the guy in a bracket that is close to his current salary based only on his comments, because that isn't what he actually said Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brobin Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 $4M seems rich to me. I don't see him getting any better, he is what he is, which is a bad 2nd liner or a good 3rd liner. He has the talent for the top line some nights, but his inconsistent effort kills his value. I would give him a shorter term contract to see what he can do, but this contract year hasn't inspired him to prove he is worth more. I am not sure what to expect in a deadline trade. A first or second rounder with some kind of outside chance prospect is probably all we can expect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brobin Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 By the way... On sportsnet they are saying a first round pick gets you Grabs out of Toronto. 18 Goals, 39 points vs 12/24 for AK in about the same number of games. Grabs is plus 5. AK is minus 6. I don't think we should over value AK on the market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 $4M seems rich to me. I don't see him getting any better, he is what he is, which is a bad 2nd liner or a good 3rd liner. He has the talent for the top line some nights, but his inconsistent effort kills his value. I would give him a shorter term contract to see what he can do, but this contract year hasn't inspired him to prove he is worth more. I am not sure what to expect in a deadline trade. A first or second rounder with some kind of outside chance prospect is probably all we can expect. 4.5 got laich, leino and others last year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForumGhost Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 I would be happy to move him. We already have one Kovalev locked up for the next couple years (Bourque), more than enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brobin Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 4.5 got laich, leino and others last year Yeah, and how did that work out for them. They are over paid and under performing. I don't want to add AK to that list, at least on our team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 The Habs already have a salary payroll greater than that of their cap payroll. Molson may not want to widen that gap even more, especially coming off a season where very likely revenues will be below budget due to there being no playoff appearance. They did throw a small signing bonus in the Gorges deal while Cole is making 1/3 of his $18 million this year, that deal is front loaded. Some teams are willing to do that for more, there's no guarantee the Habs' owner is also willing. As for Pacioretty, he can be extended as of July 1st. Montreal is one of the richest teams in the league. Ownership needs to do whatever is allowed within the rules to get the extra edge. IMO a willingness to take the hit this year, will help them be a better team, have a better chance in the playoffs in the future - which in turn will improve future profitability. Ownership needs to look at the big picture not just year to year revenues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 I would be happy to move him. We already have one Kovalev locked up for the next couple years (Bourque), more than enough. I would much rather move Bourque. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 I agree with the $3.75/year at 3 years for $11.25m. While I would like to keep Kostitsyn I think his time with the habs is over and I expect him to be traded at the deadline. While I think he does in fact like playing here I think he will leave via free agency to a team he thinks he can get more ice time from. I think his value on the market right now is a 2nd and 4th round pick. I expect him to be traded on draft day to either Blues, Rangers, Penguins, or Kings with Kings being my front runner if they fail to land a bigger fish. I'd add the wings. Frankly, i think he would be a perfect fit with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted February 21, 2012 Author Share Posted February 21, 2012 Montreal is one of the richest teams in the league. Ownership needs to do whatever is allowed within the rules to get the extra edge. IMO a willingness to take the hit this year, will help them be a better team, have a better chance in the playoffs in the future - which in turn will improve future profitability. Ownership needs to look at the big picture not just year to year revenues. Montreal is also one of the more higher leveraged teams as Molson didn't put a whole lot of his own money into the purchase. There are debt obligations as well, they can't just frontload the majority of the contracts like you think they can. They can (and have) done some, but there isn't a single team in the league that frontloads most contracts. I don't deny it would help them in the long run but there are reasons they're not doing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 $4M seems rich to me. I don't see him getting any better, he is what he is, which is a bad 2nd liner or a good 3rd liner. He has the talent for the top line some nights, but his inconsistent effort kills his value. I would give him a shorter term contract to see what he can do, but this contract year hasn't inspired him to prove he is worth more. I am not sure what to expect in a deadline trade. A first or second rounder with some kind of outside chance prospect is probably all we can expect. I think he has shown improvements and become a more complete player. The issue has been how he has constantly been pinballed around from one line to the next - even when he is doing well. Goal scorers need to be kept in a rhytmn, rather then being shuffled around. 25-35 goal scorers tend to be streaky by nature. I haven't seen a guy who is good for 20-25 goals being dropped to the 4th line as fast as Ak45. How many other 25-35 goal scorers in the league spent as much time on the 4th line as AK46 has??? If I'm PG, I'd sign him, front loaded on a 5 year deal on the bet that he breaks out next year. If he does, you just locked up a bargain. If he doesn't because the deal is front loaded, he still is an attractive contract to other teams and reasonably easy to move. Trading him this year, you are getting 50 cents on the dollar. ANything less then a 1st rounder is not getting full value for A46. Montreal is also one of the more higher leveraged teams as Molson didn't put a whole lot of his own money into the purchase. There are debt obligations as well, they can't just frontload the majority of the contracts like you think they can. They can (and have) done some, but there isn't a single team in the league that frontloads most contracts. I don't deny it would help them in the long run but there are reasons they're not doing it. WIth this being the last year of the CBA - this is the time to front load contracts to set yourself up for success in the future. I think the NHL is going to try and close off these loop holes next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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