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Leafs vs. Habs, Toronto Sports Network Edition


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Commandant's analysis of DD's deficiencies defensively in another thread was excellent. But in terms of being an offensive catalyst, I'm inclined to think the evidence is pretty persuasively in Desharnais's favour, and I think it's a disservice to him to say he's a 'product' of his wingers for just the reasons mineral states. I'll go out on a limb and say he is a legitimate #2 C in the NHL, notwithstanding his defensive limitations. In effect he replaces what Grabovski should have been to this team if we hadn't stupidly thrown him away (along with Ribeiro, Lapierre, and Sergei Kostitsyn).

As I've said elsewhere, despite conventional wisdom there's a case to be made that a stud winger might add more value to this team than a stud centreman. Right now, we have MaxPac and Cole on the wing and that's it; Gionta will be a useful addition but he's not getting any younger and his injuries are a bit worrisome. Give Pleks an elite winger and suddenly the situation at C looks, not great, but serviceable. Bring an elite C in here and that's still not gonna make Bourque, Geoffrion, Leblanc, or whoever else legitimate top-line wingers. In short, it's at W where we really need big-time help, with nothing on the big club and nothing close to being ready in the system.

I definitely agree that DD is a huge part of that line with the offence. That's why I keep him. I really think you can minimize his defensive deficencies and still take advantage of his offence at wing. I also think you can use him on the PP this way.

I think he's got a little more offence to bring as well.

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I definitely agree that DD is a huge part of that line with the offence. That's why I keep him. I really think you can minimize his defensive deficencies and still take advantage of his offence at wing. I also think you can use him on the PP this way.

I think he's got a little more offence to bring as well.

So you believe DD can get more points next year on the wing?

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So you believe DD can get more points next year on the wing?

Personally I think DD is a very talented player and he could still be used well on the wing but if he has any genuine value over the summer to a team that wants a top six forward, dealing DD to me is a good idea. I don't see him as a long term solution. There's nothing offensive with comparing him to Yannic Perreault.

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So you believe DD can get more points next year on the wing?

i think he has more offence to bring as he continues to grow.  Does that mean he'll score more than the 60 or so pts he'll finish with this year, next season?  Probably not because the adjustment will take time.  But yes I think he can have a 60+ pt season on the wing once he's comfortable there, and he's just approaching his prime years now.  Of course who the centre and winger are would be important.

A top 9 of

DD - Plekanec - Cole

Pacioretty - Grigo/gally - gionta

Bourque - Eller - Leblanc

Line up would be interesting.

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A top 9 of

DD - Plekanec - Cole

Pacioretty - Grigo/gally - gionta

Bourque - Eller - Leblanc

Line up would be interesting.

Interesting, and likely what we'd be forced to go with if we land that lottery pick and fail to get some wing depth via UFA. But unless Pleks regains his form, I don't know if that lineup is playoff calibre.

Now throw Parise in the mix, and we're set.. :nuts:

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Interesting, and likely what we'd be forced to go with if we land that lottery pick and fail to get some wing depth via UFA. But unless Pleks regains his form, I don't know if that lineup is playoff calibre.

Now throw Parise in the mix, and we're set.. :nuts:

Honestly, I'm hoping maybe Geoffrion develops some offensive game and we can push Bourque to the fourth line.

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Commandant's analysis of DD's deficiencies defensively in another thread was excellent. But in terms of being an offensive catalyst, I'm inclined to think the evidence is pretty persuasively in Desharnais's favour, and I think it's a disservice to him to say he's a 'product' of his wingers for just the reasons mineral states. I'll go out on a limb and say he is a legitimate #2 C in the NHL, notwithstanding his defensive limitations. In effect he replaces what Grabovski should have been to this team if we hadn't stupidly thrown him away (along with Ribeiro, Lapierre, and Sergei Kostitsyn).

As I've said elsewhere, despite conventional wisdom there's a case to be made that a stud winger might add more value to this team than a stud centreman. Right now, we have MaxPac and Cole on the wing and that's it; Gionta will be a useful addition but he's not getting any younger and his injuries are a bit worrisome. Give Pleks an elite winger and suddenly the situation at C looks, not great, but serviceable. Bring an elite C in here and that's still not gonna make Bourque, Geoffrion, Leblanc, or whoever else legitimate top-line wingers. In short, it's at W where we really need big-time help, with nothing on the big club and nothing close to being ready in the system.

I like DD a lot in the offensive zone. His ability to win puck battles is uncanny when you consider his size. Defensively, he needs work, that's for sure. I believe you can succeed without a true number one centre. Boston did it last year.

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DD did play the wing in the 2011 playoffs and didn't seem out of place. That's a reason I've been saying since the summer that they should be playing him on the wing.

He has good chemistry with maxpac. I'd like him to play with either Eller or pleks.

i think he has more offence to bring as he continues to grow.  Does that mean he'll score more than the 60 or so pts he'll finish with this year, next season?  Probably not because the adjustment will take time.  But yes I think he can have a 60+ pt season on the wing once he's comfortable there, and he's just approaching his prime years now.  Of course who the centre and winger are would be important.

A top 9 of

DD - Plekanec - Cole

Pacioretty - Grigo/gally - gionta

Bourque - Eller - Leblanc

Line up would be interesting.

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He has good chemistry with maxpac. I'd like him to play with either Eller or pleks.

I'm totally cool with keeping DD and Patches together but keeping Patches and Cole together just hurts the teams depth.

If you're moving DD to the wing, Patches - Plek - DD sounds like a fantastic top line for what Montreal has. That lets you put Cole with Galy/Grig and Gionta.

There's two solid top six lines.

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I really dont like the idea of putting DD on the wing...just doesn't have the scoring punch...no drive to the net.

If he is on the wing he needs to have a big Centerman to take up space and draw defencemen away from him

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I'm totally cool with keeping DD and Patches together but keeping Patches and Cole together just hurts the teams depth.

If you're moving DD to the wing, Patches - Plek - DD sounds like a fantastic top line for what Montreal has.  That lets you put Cole with Galy/Grig and Gionta.

There's two solid top six lines.

I definitelu thought about that, the onlu issue is I'm not sure who is at LW if Cole and Gio play together. Cole really struggles at LW, and is not near the same player if you put him there. Its one of the reasons he had such a hard time in Edmonton. Only when the Oil put him at RW did he produce.

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Desharnais at wing, come on man !.

Why not Plekky on the wing ?

Because the idea is to take the extra defensive zone responsibilities that a centre faces away from Desharnais. The idea is to shelter him from having to contain big forwards cycling the puck in his own zone. Pleks is an outstanding defender from the pivot position, DD is not.

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I really dont like the idea of putting DD on the wing...just doesn't have the scoring punch...no drive to the net.

If he is on the wing he needs to have a big Centerman to take up space and draw defencemen away from him

Just because he's on wing doesn't mean DD has to be the guy driving the net or the primary goal scoring presence on his line.  He can still be the distributor and play maker from the wing like a poor man's St. Louis, or like a Tanguay is the playmaker on his line with Iginla, or like a Hemsky, or a whitney, or a Gerbe, or how a number of other wingers who are the primary playmaker on their line operate. The goal isn't to change DD's offensive game but rather to limit the defensive deficiencies I talked about in another thread, specifically the cycle game problem.

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It all depends on who we bag in the off-season. If we somehow go out an acquire a stud winger, then leave DD where he is and take your chances with his defensive limitations. If we manage to finally land that elusive power C, then he can slot in with DD on his wing. Either scenario would be a gigantic upgrade over what we have now and really just fine with me ;)

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It all depends on who we bag in the off-season. If we somehow go out an acquire a stud winger, then leave DD where he is and take your chances with his defensive limitations. If we manage to finally land that elusive power C, then he can slot in with DD on his wing. Either scenario would be a gigantic upgrade over what we have now and really just fine with me ;)

And if we bag a parise and a galchenyuk? I know, I'm dreaming, but in that scenario, Leblanc gets another year in the AHL while we try to dump Bourque.

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Just because he's on wing doesn't mean DD has to be the guy driving the net or the primary goal scoring presence on his line. He can still be the distributor and play maker from the wing like a poor man's St. Louis, or like a Tanguay is the playmaker on his line with Iginla, or like a Hemsky, or a whitney, or a Gerbe, or how a number of other wingers who are the primary playmaker on their line operate. The goal isn't to change DD's offensive game but rather to limit the defensive deficiencies I talked about in another thread, specifically the cycle game problem.

Having never played the game, I am pretty weak on the technicalities of playing the game, but along the lines of what you are saying above, could DD still play centre and have one of the wingers break up the cycle on defence? i.e is it possible to change roles during a shift?

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Having never played the game, I am pretty weak on the technicalities of playing the game, but along the lines of what you are saying above, could DD still play centre and have one of the wingers break up the cycle on defence? i.e is it possible to change roles during a shift?

It's a cool idea in theory but I wouldn't think it would work. In the offensive zone the centreman tends to be the third man high and as a consequence it's easiest for him to be the first man back. If DD were to play center only in the offensive zone, he'd be the first man back so it would make sense for him to cover the third forward coming in and therefore play down low near Price. In the defensive zone, the wingers are told to play high near the defensemen so it would really be a poor defensive strategy positionally. Now if they were hemmed in the defensive zone I guess you could say that a winger and centre could change positions but the inconsitency of this would lead to mass confusion and defensive breakdowns. As for breaking out of the zone, since DD would be playing high near the defense at the point, he'd be leading the rush from the wing and basically there'd be no reason not to just have him play at wing. The only time it really makes sense to have a player change a position is at a faceoff before the the puck drops and the play is in full motion.

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Having never played the game, I am pretty weak on the technicalities of playing the game, but along the lines of what you are saying above, could DD still play centre and have one of the wingers break up the cycle on defence? i.e is it possible to change roles during a shift?

Possible but the Wing and DD need to discuss exactly when they are going to switch roles, and it would take a lot of chemistry out there.  The downsides is it would be a defensive role the winger isn't used to, and it would limit your ability to line juggle.  They also both have to be on board with the switch, you don't want both DD and the winger both playing down low and leaving open the point man and not being in position on the boards to start a breakout and transition game.  It could work but I think given the personnel (if a C is drafted) it might be more trouble than its worth and might be easier to just move DD to wing full time. As CK pointed out you also are leaving yourself open to mass confusion and it would really change your transition game.

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Just because he's on wing doesn't mean DD has to be the guy driving the net or the primary goal scoring presence on his line. He can still be the distributor and play maker from the wing like a poor man's St. Louis, or like a Tanguay is the playmaker on his line with Iginla, or like a Hemsky, or a whitney, or a Gerbe, or how a number of other wingers who are the primary playmaker on their line operate. The goal isn't to change DD's offensive game but rather to limit the defensive deficiencies I talked about in another thread, specifically the cycle game problem.

but again the difference is we dont have a scoring centerman for him to make plays to....from my personal experience and even watching the habs in the past putting 2 setup guys on the same line just doesn't work, now if we get a big scoring centerman then i would like to see that experiment, until then it is my opinion that he makes a better centerman than winger.

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Having never played the game, I am pretty weak on the technicalities of playing the game, but along the lines of what you are saying above, could DD still play centre and have one of the wingers break up the cycle on defence? i.e is it possible to change roles during a shift?

the problem is that DD is too small to handle big forwards downlow in his own end.....but i think he is aware defensively enough to handle attaking players on the rush. So theoretically it would be possible to be the third guy back to handle the rush but then stay high to cover the point when in the defensive zone...just saying.....this could work but it would give alot of responsibility to his wingers to get back in time to break up the cycle, thats alot of work/skating (basically end to end) for Cole or Patches, unless they make a b-line for the bench and someone jumps on to cover for them. But I could see this being a mess in defensive zone coverage.

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but again the difference is we dont have a scoring centerman for him to make plays to....from my personal experience and even watching the habs in the past putting 2 setup guys on the same line just doesn't work, now if we get a big scoring centerman then i would like to see that experiment, until then it is my opinion that he makes a better centerman than winger.

as it stands now, pleks,dd and eller are the three centres, but I think we have to assume that its a strong possibility that a centre will be drafted and will be on the team maybe next year, but for sure by october 2013.I think we also forget how good a goal scorer Pleks can be at centre even if he's not big.

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as it stands now, pleks,dd and eller are the three centres, but I think we have to assume that its a strong possibility that a centre will be drafted and will be on the team maybe next year, but for sure by october 2013.I think we also forget how good a goal scorer Pleks can be at centre even if he's not big.

I would love to see Grigo or Galyencuk (sp?) step right in, and I think if we draft one of them they most likely will. I am just not so sure about Plekanec anymore...I really think it is a confidence issue with him and on a team this bad that could be trouble.

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