Is Michel Therrien a real genius like Don says?

[KoRP]

Well, after all this, I am forced to conclude that, as the title of the thread says, Therrien is a genius, and Don was right, and it must be true as evidenced in the posts contained here...

Because Therrien has proven that he can win without a #1 center, and without any strategy, that alone makes him smarter than Habs 30/31, who is apparently of genius hockey IQ, which tells me that in the end, Therrien is indeed the man!

Nuff said!

Moving on....

[DON]

Sorry, Habs Rule sarcastically coined the 'Genius' bit, when I argued he was good or above average coach.

And, all can find faults or pet peeves they disagree with him on, but team is rebuilding, winning, improving, has nice group of prospects... so I cant complain one bit (unlike some who are total opposite....not that there is anything wrong with that! just odd) .

[Toronthab]

Habs rule..."A real stay at home knock you on your ass defenceman."

Sounds like a girl I dated in high school....

She was always reading badly written books.

She liked rough texts.

Sorry....

I don't know why I do this..

[DON]

[Trizzak]

Is Therrien a genius? No, obviously. His tactics are antiquated and not right for the team he has. But his roster moves, while frustrating, make sense in a bigger picture. He's also privy to more behind-the-scenes information and internal pressure than any of us know.

Should Brian Allen be playing ahead of Nathan Beaulieu? Nope. But the GM and owner won't be particularly happy sitting $3.5 million in the pressbox without at least trying to squeeze some useful miles out of that ancient freight train.

Should Travis Moen and Rene Bourque have been given as much playing time ahead of Bournival at the start of the season? Nope. But it means a lot to team veterans (and outside free agents) that they are shown respect and not traded in for a newer model after a struggle. And it's hard to trade players that aren't playing.

Should David Desharnais have been ripped from the Pacioretty teat a long time ago? Absolutely. But good luck demoting a Francophone underdog without getting backlash from an entire French speaking media outlet.

Genius? No. But he's operating fairly well in an environment of pesky outside circumstances that are rarely considered by those in the comfort of their armchairs.

[illWill]

Well, after all this, I am forced to conclude that, as the title of the thread says, Therrien is a genius, and Don was right, and it must be true as evidenced in the posts contained here...

Because Therrien has proven that he can win without a #1 center, and without any strategy, that alone makes him smarter than Habs 30/31, who is apparently of genius hockey IQ, which tells me that in the end, Therrien is indeed the man!

Nuff said!

Moving on....

I don't know why you bother to use things such as facts to get in the way of another person's argument. The final 4 appearance, the second in the East finish, are just afterthoughts because apparently they could have done better with a different coach.

Is Therrien a genius? No, obviously. His tactics are antiquated and not right for the team he has. But his roster moves, while frustrating, make sense in a bigger picture. He's also privy to more behind-the-scenes information and internal pressure than any of us know.

Should Brian Allen be playing ahead of Nathan Beaulieu? Nope. But the GM and owner won't be particularly happy sitting $3.5 million in the pressbox without at least trying to squeeze some useful miles out of that ancient freight train.

Should Travis Moen and Rene Bourque have been given as much playing time ahead of Bournival at the start of the season? Nope. But it means a lot to team veterans (and outside free agents) that they are shown respect and not traded in for a newer model after a struggle. And it's hard to trade players that aren't playing.

Should David Desharnais have been ripped from the Pacioretty teat a long time ago? Absolutely. But good luck demoting a Francophone underdog without getting backlash from an entire French speaking media outlet.

Genius? No. But he's operating fairly well in an environment of pesky outside circumstances that are rarely considered by those in the comfort of their armchairs.

Excellent post. Unless there is someone on this forum that works for the organization, no one here knows what the operational procedures are and what constraints they have. It is very easy to judge from the outside, but there is a chain of command that they all adhere to. Money, public relations etc are other factors that are considered in decisions.

[Trizzak]

Habs rule..."A real stay at home knock you on your ass defenceman."

Sounds like a girl I dated in high school....

She was always reading badly written books.

She liked rough texts.

Sorry....

I don't know why I do this..

Oh my g-

That is just the...

That is so bad I don't ev...

I'm stealing that.

[Toronthab]

I don't know why you bother to use things such as facts to get in the way of another person's argument. The final 4 appearance, the second in the East finish, are just afterthoughts because apparently they could have done better with a different coach.

Excellent post. Unless there is someone on this forum that works for the organization, no one here knows what the operational procedures are and what constraints they have. It is very easy to judge from the outside, but there is a chain of command that they all adhere to. Money, public relations etc are other factors that are considered in decisions.

Yup.

Oh my g-

That is just the...

That is so bad I don't ev...

I'm stealing that.

I'd hate to read a psychological profile based upon my posts....

My last therapist killed himself.

[Habs30/31]

I don't know why you bother to use things such as facts to get in the way of another person's argument. The final 4 appearance, the second in the East finish, are just afterthoughts because apparently they could have done better with a different coach.

Excellent post. Unless there is someone on this forum that works for the organization, no one here knows what the operational procedures are and what constraints they have. It is very easy to judge from the outside, but there is a chain of command that they all adhere to. Money, public relations etc are other factors that are considered in decisions.

"therrien has proven he can win without a number one center" win what exactly? 2 outta 4 play off rounds in two years? ok ya got me.

since my original statement was that nobody including the habs can win A STANLEY CUP without a legit number one center number one center.

therrien has never won a cup period ...........even with two number one centers ! lol

[habs rule]

Habs rule..."A real stay at home knock you on your ass defenceman."

Sounds like a girl I dated in high school....

She was always reading badly written books.

She liked rough texts.

Sorry....

I don't know why I do this..

What's her name? can she play defence? we have proven we are flexible.

[habs rule]

It seems funny to me that the people who support MT always say "don't let the facts get in the way of the argument" and they back that up with "look at the record".

However when you point out that the things a coach is actually in charge of....the systems, and that they are not working. There is no reply. If MT is doing something so good, where is the power play, where is the getting the guys ready to play, like in the first period for instance, where is the zone entrance strategy, backchecking strategy, other than the pk, this team is actually in disarray if you watch the games. They can't keep the puck in the offensive zone, it seems awfully easy to get into the Habs zone. The defence all play the block, not a bad strategy a lot of the time, but having guys lying on the ice is definitely a new one on me. I don't really notice other teams using that strategy. That strategy has also caused a number of goals. Prust put one in not long ago as I recall. I like this team but when I see them being embarrassed on the ice and looking like a solid AHl team. I want some answers. The record as I have been saying for 2 years is skewed in my opinion, by the fact that we have Carey Price and a decent defensive hockey team. It should be a very good hockey team, it has a lot of talent. I think a lot of that talent is being wasted. MT may be a credible professional slightly below average coach but that is not going to win us the Cup. He couldn't do it with Crosby Malkin and Fleury, so I see no way he does it with Patches, Subban and Price. This is of course just my opinion.

[ICEWATER77]

if I remember correctly, 30, the pens didn't have a solid defensive unit and got crap goaltending from fleury. it takes more than a #1 center, or 2 #1's

[Habs30/31]

It seems funny to me that the people who support MT always say "don't let the facts get in the way of the argument" and they back that up with "look at the record".

However when you point out that the things a coach is actually in charge of....the systems, and that they are not working. There is no reply. If MT is doing something so good, where is the power play, where is the getting the guys ready to play, like in the first period for instance, where is the zone entrance strategy, backchecking strategy, other than the pk, this team is actually in disarray if you watch the games. They can't keep the puck in the offensive zone, it seems awfully easy to get into the Habs zone. The defence all play the block, not a bad strategy a lot of the time, but having guys lying on the ice is definitely a new one on me. I don't really notice other teams using that strategy. That strategy has also caused a number of goals. Prust put one in not long ago as I recall. I like this team but when I see them being embarrassed on the ice and looking like a solid AHl team. I want some answers. The record as I have been saying for 2 years is skewed in my opinion, by the fact that we have Carey Price and a decent defensive hockey team. It should be a very good hockey team, it has a lot of talent. I think a lot of that talent is being wasted. MT may be a credible professional slightly below average coach but that is not going to win us the Cup. He couldn't do it with Crosby Malkin and Fleury, so I see no way he does it with Patches, Subban and Price. This is of course just my opinion.

"there is no reply"

yes that's glaringly obvious throughout this thred

[Guest Stogey24]

It seems funny to me that the people who support MT always say "don't let the facts get in the way of the argument" and they back that up with "look at the record".

However when you point out that the things a coach is actually in charge of....the systems, and that they are not working. There is no reply. If MT is doing something so good, where is the power play, where is the getting the guys ready to play, like in the first period for instance, where is the zone entrance strategy, backchecking strategy, other than the pk, this team is actually in disarray if you watch the games. They can't keep the puck in the offensive zone, it seems awfully easy to get into the Habs zone. The defence all play the block, not a bad strategy a lot of the time, but having guys lying on the ice is definitely a new one on me. I don't really notice other teams using that strategy. That strategy has also caused a number of goals. Prust put one in not long ago as I recall. I like this team but when I see them being embarrassed on the ice and looking like a solid AHl team. I want some answers. The record as I have been saying for 2 years is skewed in my opinion, by the fact that we have Carey Price and a decent defensive hockey team. It should be a very good hockey team, it has a lot of talent. I think a lot of that talent is being wasted. MT may be a credible professional slightly below average coach but that is not going to win us the Cup. He couldn't do it with Crosby Malkin and Fleury, so I see no way he does it with Patches, Subban and Price. This is of course just my opinion.

So who do you want to coach this team? I don't like Therrien either, but there is no superior alternative. I'm definitely getting tired of the dump and chase though. Too much wasted speed on this team.

[Habs30/31]

So who do you want to coach this team? I don't like Therrien either, but there is no superior alternative. I'm definitely getting tired of the dump and chase though. Too much wasted speed on this team.

Agree, and as HR has pointed out several times "scrambled eggs" system in own zone as well. AS a fan I don't know who else is out there that would be new on the scene. But I'm sure MB has an good idea of who is. I look at Tbay, Vancouver, Pittsburg, Columbus and others that hired coaches who have been making their way up through the ranks, had not coached an NHL game, and that ninety five per cent of fans never heard of. Not saying they are all going to be great coaches but several them look to be good hiring so far. Point is the next coach MB recruits might be considered a risk by some because of inexperience , but I'll take that any day over "therrien will have to do, nobody else around right now". Pat Burns had never coached a game in the NHL when the habs hired him. Neither had Claude Julien. Both went on to win Stanley Cups. Gotta go out side the box sometimes.

[illWill]

It seems funny to me that the people who support MT always say "don't let the facts get in the way of the argument" and they back that up with "look at the record".

However when you point out that the things a coach is actually in charge of....the systems, and that they are not working. There is no reply. If MT is doing something so good, where is the power play, where is the getting the guys ready to play, like in the first period for instance, where is the zone entrance strategy, backchecking strategy, other than the pk, this team is actually in disarray if you watch the games. They can't keep the puck in the offensive zone, it seems awfully easy to get into the Habs zone. The defence all play the block, not a bad strategy a lot of the time, but having guys lying on the ice is definitely a new one on me. I don't really notice other teams using that strategy. That strategy has also caused a number of goals. Prust put one in not long ago as I recall. I like this team but when I see them being embarrassed on the ice and looking like a solid AHl team. I want some answers. The record as I have been saying for 2 years is skewed in my opinion, by the fact that we have Carey Price and a decent defensive hockey team. It should be a very good hockey team, it has a lot of talent. I think a lot of that talent is being wasted. MT may be a credible professional slightly below average coach but that is not going to win us the Cup. He couldn't do it with Crosby Malkin and Fleury, so I see no way he does it with Patches, Subban and Price. This is of course just my opinion.

The last time you and I debated a topic, it was you in favor of trading Markov last season. Can you imagine this team without Markov? So I don't really put any merit into your analysis.

This post is just all around contradicting. Our record is skewed for TWO YEARS because we have Price and a defensive hockey team? Yes, that is our team. We never claimed to be a high flying gun slinging hockey team. Our goal totals over the last handful of seasons hasn't been very high, so we rely on our strenghs. No, we do not have a bonafide number 1 center or scary first line. That's why we roll 3 lines and have a more balanced attack. As for the "systems", I'm not quite sure how big of an impact you think the coach has. It's up to the players to execute when it is all said and done. Just like it is coach's fault that they don't get up for the games, in what world does that make any sense? Anyway, again I'll use the facts like their record and playoff success to support my opinion, instead of just having an opinion. And Habs 30/31, yes I know that isn't the Cup, but remember that MT took over a team that was dead last in the conference and now here we are. Either you guys think this team is talented enough to go all the way but won't because MT sucks, or you think it isn't and we have overachieved the last couple seasons under MT. The arguments made don't make any sense.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Ah, the unending thread.

Look. Do I think MT is a great coach? No. Do I think he is a bad coach? No. Like I always say, he's one of an interchangeable mass of about 20+ generic NHL coaches, all of whom have strengths and weaknesses but who, on balance, are able to get an NHL team performing up to the level that its talent would dictate.

That is exactly what's happened in Montreal. Under Therrien, the team has finished #3 and #9 overall in the NHL standings. It has had a first-round exit and a Semi-Finals run. If you ask me, those results are pretty much in line with the team's talent level. People who say MT is a huge handicap for this team are logically committed to implying that the team would be getting markedly better results under another coach. That would mean a team in the same class as the Chicago Blackhawks. I don't think we are such a team - yet. Rather, we are in the 'second tier' of contenders, a team that, if it gets hot and all the breaks roll its way, can go all the way. That's what our personnel would dictate, and that's how we've performed under Therrien.

Rather than get hung up on this or that individual decision - futile, because all coaches make hundreds of choices, and no one is going to agree with all of them - you have to look at overall results. Once you do, there is no basis for demonizing Therrien.

Finally: if we replace MT, it will almost certainly be with some other coach drawn from that pool of 'interchangeable' coaches. It won't be one of the four or five elite NHL coaches. Therefore the whole 'demonize the coach' thing will start up again almost immediately. So the whole thing is just wind as far as I'm concerned.

[PMAC]

Nicely said, CC.... Annndd....on that note, can we please find another topic to discuss when the team has a lull in the schedule?

MT will not get fired (any time soon) unless:

a) the team does the unthinkable and pulls a Maple-laughs losing streak and misses the playoffs

b) the habs go out of the playoffs in the first round in consecutive years a la Byslma's penguins

c) he does something unspeakable in public

All three of these are highly unlikely so please

' Nuff said about Therrien getting fired

[Habs30/31]

The last time you and I debated a topic, it was you in favor of trading Markov last season. Can you imagine this team without Markov? So I don't really put any merit into your analysis.

This post is just all around contradicting. Our record is skewed for TWO YEARS because we have Price and a defensive hockey team? Yes, that is our team. We never claimed to be a high flying gun slinging hockey team. Our goal totals over the last handful of seasons hasn't been very high, so we rely on our strenghs. No, we do not have a bonafide number 1 center or scary first line. That's why we roll 3 lines and have a more balanced attack. As for the "systems", I'm not quite sure how big of an impact you think the coach has. It's up to the players to execute when it is all said and done. Just like it is coach's fault that they don't get up for the games, in what world does that make any sense? Anyway, again I'll use the facts like their record and playoff success to support my opinion, instead of just having an opinion. And Habs 30/31, yes I know that isn't the Cup, but remember that MT took over a team that was dead last in the conference and now here we are. Either you guys think this team is talented enough to go all the way but won't because MT sucks, or you think it isn't and we have overachieved the last couple seasons under MT. The arguments made don't make any sense.

no not because MT sucks ..... but your argument and others is that unless "he sucks" he is good enough??

I seem to remember the habs captain was here for therriens entire tenure and the "success" you refer to. But MB thought of upgrading there. Brierre Gorges, Bourque and Moen were all part of the big run and every one of therriens wins..............but MB thought to upgrade. Budjai was a great team mate and a very good back up goalie.....but again MB changed that........... and the team did not nose dive did they..............many think they are better with the changes................HR and some of us are convinced and upgrade can be done at the head coaching position. Thats all. Not saying he will be fired any time soon. Not trying to change anybodys mind.......nor will any fan change my mind. Therrien may change my mind, but not yet he hasnt.

When MB went looking for a coach. It was not like anyone in the hockey world was surprised he was available. lol But everyone was surprised he was hired.

Yea real "baffling" that some are not big fans of Michele Therrien. NOT

[Machine of Loving Grace]

I like that the solution to Therrien is some magically unknown coach nobody can name but certainly exists out there because reasons.

[Habs30/31]

Nicely said, CC.... Annndd....on that note, can we please find another topic to discuss when the team has a lull in the schedule?

MT will not get fired (any time soon) unless:

a) the team does the unthinkable and pulls a Maple-laughs losing streak and misses the playoffs

b) the habs go out of the playoffs in the first round in consecutive years a la Byslma's penguins

c) he does something unspeakable in public

All three of these are highly unlikely so please

' Nuff said about Therrien getting fired

a) Carey price wont melt like leaf goalies did

b) pens went out in third round, then the second round in "consecutive years a la bylsma" then he was canned

c)Therrien was out of work for years after "speaking out in public"... highly unlikely will he repeat boneheaded rant

[hab29RETIRED]

It seems funny to me that the people who support MT always say "don't let the facts get in the way of the argument" and they back that up with "look at the record".

However when you point out that the things a coach is actually in charge of....the systems, and that they are not working. There is no reply. If MT is doing something so good, where is the power play, where is the getting the guys ready to play, like in the first period for instance, where is the zone entrance strategy, backchecking strategy, other than the pk, this team is actually in disarray if you watch the games. They can't keep the puck in the offensive zone, it seems awfully easy to get into the Habs zone. The defence all play the block, not a bad strategy a lot of the time, but having guys lying on the ice is definitely a new one on me. I don't really notice other teams using that strategy. That strategy has also caused a number of goals. Prust put one in not long ago as I recall. I like this team but when I see them being embarrassed on the ice and looking like a solid AHl team. I want some answers. The record as I have been saying for 2 years is skewed in my opinion, by the fact that we have Carey Price and a decent defensive hockey team. It should be a very good hockey team, it has a lot of talent. I think a lot of that talent is being wasted. MT may be a credible professional slightly below average coach but that is not going to win us the Cup. He couldn't do it with Crosby Malkin and Fleury, so I see no way he does it with Patches, Subban and Price. This is of course just my opinion.

100% agree with everything you'v said.

[illWill]

I like that the solution to Therrien is some magically unknown coach nobody can name but certainly exists out there because reasons.

Whoever he is will get much better results because obviously

[hab29RETIRED]

Ah, the unending thread.

Look. Do I think MT is a great coach? No. Do I think he is a bad coach? No. Like I always say, he's one of an interchangeable mass of about 20+ generic NHL coaches, all of whom have strengths and weaknesses but who, on balance, are able to get an NHL team performing up to the level that its talent would dictate.

That is exactly what's happened in Montreal. Under Therrien, the team has finished #3 and #9 overall in the NHL standings. It has had a first-round exit and a Semi-Finals run. If you ask me, those results are pretty much in line with the team's talent level. People who say MT is a huge handicap for this team are logically committed to implying that the team would be getting markedly better results under another coach. That would mean a team in the same class as the Chicago Blackhawks. I don't think we are such a team - yet. Rather, we are in the 'second tier' of contenders, a team that, if it gets hot and all the breaks roll its way, can go all the way. That's what our personnel would dictate, and that's how we've performed under Therrien.

Rather than get hung up on this or that individual decision - futile, because all coaches make hundreds of choices, and no one is going to agree with all of them - you have to look at overall results. Once you do, there is no basis for demonizing Therrien.

Finally: if we replace MT, it will almost certainly be with some other coach drawn from that pool of 'interchangeable' coaches. It won't be one of the four or five elite NHL coaches. Therefore the whole 'demonize the coach' thing will start up again almost immediately. So the whole thing is just wind as far as I'm concerned.

I agree that MT is an interchangeable coach. I disagree that he isn't a bad coach. Bad coaches have even won a cup - in spite of themselves. Al McNeil is an example. Horrible coach. not bad as an assistant or for helping player development, but a horrible head coach. Won a cup in Montreal, management realized they won despite the coach and fired him AFTER winning a cup. Difference was we had the best GM in hockey. McNeil got another shot in Calgary and they fired him and turned things around, after getting rid of him.

The question is why do we have to have a mediocre to a bad interchangeable coach??? MacLean is a perfect example of a coach who's team had success in spite of him. Players everntually revolted and the fat walrus was fired. MT, like MacLean is an example of a bad interchangeable coach who is holding back a fairly skilled team. Last year's playoffs the won in SPITE of him. We won the first series because TBL had no goaltending. His stubbornness to play grunts like Murray almost cost us the Boston series.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

Whoever he is will get much better results because obviously

Who is he? Who knows! Bylsma came out of nowhere to win a Cup, so can ___________. __________ is a great coach with a solid pedigree. I'm sure he will whip this team into shape and make a run for the Cup.