Lovett's Magnatones Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 "play offs? play offs?....play offs?".............Pleks had one more goal than Carey price in play offs. Granted Carey had more powerplay time. Eller had three points this playoff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs30/31 Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 Eller had three points this playoff. pleks ? How many did he get playing on the first line and evry single powerplay with our two best forwards flanking him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 I know, I know...it's NEVER the fault of Galchenyuk or Eller. Neither can be expected to take the initiative and make things happen. That's ever so unfair to the poor wee darlings. No, they have an absolute entitlement to play on the top line with Pacioretty regardless of how useless they are out there, and so does every other young player, because after all, that's Pacioretty's job - his primary role is to be an affirmative action program for young players that otherwise aren't generating anything. I can't wait 'til Renway comes up, because then the line will have to be Eller/Galchenyuk/Renway/Pacioretty. Or else it's all Therrien's fault. Of course it is, everything else is (except when it's good. Thus, Patches becoming a tremendous all-around player, or Subban being a multiple Norris nominee, has zero to do with Therrien. But Galchenyuk or Eller being so-so? All Therrien all the time). Sarcasm aside, I'd be a lot more convinced by these arguments if I saw these players actually creating things out there on a semi-reliable basis, only to have the play fizzle because of cement-handed linemates. But with Galy it's the exact same movie over and over again, on endless repeat: 1. Try to deke the defender one on one even though it has hardly ever worked since Junior three years ago. 2. If that succeeds, which it does maybe 10% of the time, try to deke the next guy. 3. Lose the puck. 4. If somehow (2) actually succeeds - maybe once every 15 games - fail to cash in on the chance generated. Eller, meanwhile, hardly ever generates even that much except during his patented two-week-long hot streak per year. This despite playing against the other teams' bottom-6 forwards and bottom-pairing defence. Gee, Poor Lars, he can't be expected to generate anything against some other team's generic 3rd-line nobody or their 5th defenceman, that's not fair. We should put him up against Duncan Keith, then we'd really see him kicking butt! Now let's contrast that with - say - Saku Koivu. When he came up, he was on the fourth line with a human cinder block (Turner Stevenson). It's a funny thing; no excuses were necessary. Nobody said Poor Widdle Koivu, a victim of a bad ol' coach or bad ol's system or whatever. No, because Koivu just kept generating plays and being awesome despite his boat-anchor linemates. Pretty soon he had shed Stevenson and moved up the depth chart because even idiots like Mario Tremblay could see that his play made an impact out there. Same with Subban, really. And for that matter, Pacioretty and Gallagher. All these guys earned their spots by being awesome. They were not beneficiaries of some coaching affirmative action program. Heck, many of our guys who got the 'Poor Widdle Baby' treatment ended up with delusions of grandeur; Higgins (miscast as a top-liner next to Koivu) and Komisarek (miscast as a shutdown d-man next to Markov) come to mind. (Yes, Desharnais might be an exception to all of this, although one thing you can never say is that DD has not battled to maximize every scrap of his own potential). So I'm not buying it. Let Eller actually start doing something other than being a reasonably safe placeholder out there. Let Galchenyuk actually start seeing the ice and using his linemates. If they do, I will be absolutely amazed if they do not see their ice time increasing and their usage 'improving;' which is in fact what has happened in the past when they go through hot spells. They're paid like men in a men's league. Let them act like men instead of babies and take the damned bull by the horns. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs30/31 Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 I know, I know...it's NEVER the fault of Galchenyuk or Eller. Neither can be expected to take the initiative and make things happen. That's ever so unfair to the poor wee darlings. No, they have an absolute entitlement to play on the top line with Pacioretty regardless of how useless they are out there, and so does every other young player, because after all, that's Pacioretty's job - his primary role is to be an affirmative action program for young players that otherwise aren't generating anything. I can't wait 'til Renway comes up, because then the line will have to be Eller/Galchenyuk/Renway/Pacioretty. Or else it's all Therrien's fault. Of course it is, everything else is (except when it's good. Thus, Patches becoming a tremendous all-around player, or Subban being a multiple Norris nominee, has zero to do with Therrien. But Galchenyuk or Eller being so-so? All Therrien all the time). Sarcasm aside, I'd be a lot more convinced by these arguments if I saw these players actually creating things out there on a semi-reliable basis, only to have the play fizzle because of cement-handed linemates. But with Galy it's the exact same movie over and over again, on endless repeat: 1. Try to deke the defender one on one even though it has hardly ever worked since Junior three years ago. 2. If that succeeds, which it does maybe 10% of the time, try to deke the next guy. 3. Lose the puck. 4. If somehow (2) actually succeeds - maybe once every 15 games - fail to cash in on the chance generated. Eller, meanwhile, hardly ever generates even that much except during his patented two-week-long hot streak per year. This despite playing against the other teams' bottom-6 forwards and bottom-pairing defence. Gee, Poor Lars, he can't be expected to generate anything against some other team's generic 3rd-line nobody or their 5th defenceman, that's not fair. We should put him up against Duncan Keith, then we'd really see him kicking butt! Now let's contrast that with - say - Saku Koivu. When he came up, he was on the fourth line with a human cinder block (Turner Stevenson). It's a funny thing; no excuses were necessary. Nobody said Poor Widdle Koivu, a victim of a bad ol' coach or bad ol's system or whatever. No, because Koivu just kept generating plays and being awesome despite his boat-anchor linemates. Pretty soon he had shed Stevenson and moved up the depth chart because even idiots like Mario Tremblay could see that his play made an impact out there. Same with Subban, really. And for that matter, Pacioretty and Gallagher. All these guys earned their spots by being awesome. They were not beneficiaries of some coaching affirmative action program. Heck, many of our guys who got the 'Poor Widdle Baby' treatment ended up with delusions of grandeur; Higgins (miscast as a top-liner next to Koivu) and Komisarek (miscast as a shutdown d-man next to Markov) come to mind. (Yes, Desharnais might be an exception to all of this, although one thing you can never say is that DD has not battled to maximize every scrap of his own potential). So I'm not buying it. Let Eller actually start doing something other than being a reasonably safe placeholder out there. Let Galchenyuk actually start seeing the ice and using his linemates. If they do, I will be absolutely amazed if they do not see their ice time increasing and their usage 'improving;' which is in fact what has happened in the past when they go through hot spells. They're paid like men in a men's league. Let them act like men instead of babies and take the damned bull by the horns. "I know i know its never the fault of" Plekanic....4 points in twelve play off games. One goal in game one then 11 eleven straight without one. Rip larry the permanent third liner , gally the kid.......but dont anybody dare say anything negative about another weak play off from Tomas Plekanic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs30/31 Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 wow five points for Brassard tonight ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs30/31 Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 Eller had three points this playoff. plekanic had four Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 I don't know why Pacioretty should be in the conversation for Eller to play better when I compared him with third liners making less with less expectations. Did John Mitchell need a Max Pacioretty? Nope. We can pick up Mitchell for nothing if we didn't have Eller on the contract he has. Lars Eller with Max Pacioretty would be Travis Zajac, meaning we'd be paying him an extra $2M for artificial production. Fact is, $3.75M is a premium for a third line center and Eller sits with Berglund and Zajac as well paid disappointments. Enough deflections. He's no longer a kid. He was drafted the same year as Pacioretty. Much like Penguins centre Brandon Sutter, it's pretty clear we know what Eller is. He ain't anything more, and unfortunately he's paid more to be nothing more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nihilz Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 Insanity. Some of you guys need to check your angst at the door and purchase some perspective. Holy jeebaz, Batman. lmao I guess Im just an optimist! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs30/31 Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 I don't know why Pacioretty should be in the conversation for Eller to play better when I compared him with third liners making less with less expectations. Did John Mitchell need a Max Pacioretty? Nope. We can pick up Mitchell for nothing if we didn't have Eller on the contract he has. Lars Eller with Max Pacioretty would be Travis Zajac, meaning we'd be paying him an extra $2M for artificial production. Fact is, $3.75M is a premium for a third line center and Eller sits with Berglund and Zajac as well paid disappointments. Enough deflections. He's no longer a kid. He was drafted the same year as Pacioretty. Much like Penguins centre Brandon Sutter, it's pretty clear we know what Eller is. He ain't anything more, and unfortunately he's paid more to be nothing more. Did Tomas Plekanic "need a Max Pacioretty" ? Yes. But it didn't help. He still couldn't out score Eller, Gilbert or Smith Pelly in the play offs. I do not disagree that larry was a disappointment in the twelve play off game the habs played. Maybe hopes were high after his play off a year ago. But its the top six you look at first. Chucky did not play well. TP was horrible. Larry playing with the rookie and weiss did not light it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IN THE HEARTS OF MEN Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 Did Tomas Plekanic "need a Max Pacioretty" ? Yes. But it didn't help. He still couldn't out score Eller, Gilbert or Smith Pelly in the play offs. I do not disagree that larry was a disappointment in the twelve play off game the habs played. Maybe hopes were high after his play off a year ago. But its the top six you look at first. Chucky did not play well. TP was horrible. Larry playing with the rookie and weiss did not light it up. larry played with prust not del arose in the playoffs and they were a very effective line minus actually finishing. patches, gallagher and plex formed a very dominant line when it came to chances and shots derived, but they just like everybody else on this team were snake bite. I'm not defending anyone here and know you are judged by actual putting the puck in the net. with that said, as evidenced by your constant reminding of how plex said "he played like a girl" back in 2009 or whatever year ions ago... i think you are slightly bias vs the turtle necked czech. plex had his fair share of chances to score or assist and even his failed dump in game 3 was a rare routine mis-hap on his part culminating many, many instances were that round puck just didn't slide in our favour period in these playoffs. and nothing went his way as well as most of our players. you can't dismiss that he didn't play well but had a bad case of that good ol' excuse called "puck luck". in fact he had the game on his stick quite a few times in these playoffs but it just didn't seem to go for him. be it missed empty netters, breakaways, one timers etc... it would be interesting to see the amount of grade A chances plex created with his line mates and how many of those were missed opportunities. his defensive side of the game was good as well as he was able to stymie stamkos for long long stretches just to give one example. didn't he directly hold the most dynamic forward in hockey (arguably) to zero shots in 2 games? something must be said for getting into the right places at the right time at any particular moment and just failing to finish the play. give it a break... plex is a much, much, much, much better rounded hockey player then lars eller! much better! we got it, we need a Center!!! we don't need to get rid of plex though. id argue its DD and eller's $3.5 a piece that have to go also, it wasn't that long ago that plex had the revolving door of line mates on his wing. for years he was the guy who was saddled with almost every player on his wing at one point.... what did he do? just consistently score 20+goals a year on top of being be our best shut down C and continue to be asked to be the first guy over the boards on the first wave of PK and pretty much every situation during a game. and on a side note some might say that galchenyuk's game dropped very very significantly the moment he was displaced from plex's line! just saying put it in perspective.... plex was not invisible in these playoffs. he had his chances and didn't convert.... albeit again.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICEWATER77 Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 Pleks epic gaffe on the failed dump-in off Max's back still grinds my gears. But, he isn't the only one that let me down this post-season. MB will get something done this summer..i don't know what, but we've got to improve up front. Perimeter play won't cut it. Just wondering, what's the general consensus on Martin Reway? I've only seen him at WJC, so I'd say he's pretty slick offensively. However, WJC success doesn't necessarily translate to NHL success, so I'm not going to wish upon a star Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 "I know i know its never the fault of" Plekanic....4 points in twelve play off games. One goal in game one then 11 eleven straight without one. Rip larry the permanent third liner , gally the kid.......but dont anybody dare say anything negative about another weak play off from Tomas Plekanic. Considering that I never said anything about Plekanec in that post, your riposte is quite strange. However, if you can't see that Pleks is a significantly better player than Eller is - which is in no way to place Pleks above criticism - then I'm not sure which games you're watching. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IN THE HEARTS OF MEN Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 so now getting back to what will make this team a better club? everybody seems to unanimously agree we need a fresh face in our top 9 at C. most believe its the #1C that needs to be addressed.... after reading everybody's thoughts and opinions there is quite a few things to consider. mainly Plex is a UFA at next seasons end! DD is being paid 3.5 but can't play the minutes at C during the playoffs and lacks the blazing speed of other C of his size (think tyler johnson) and is signed long term eller is overpaid for a 3rd line C without the consistent secondary scoring. take out his 2 mini hot streaks and he's nowhere to be found for long stretches of the season. DLR is a young and up and comer paid pretty much squat Mitchell UFA Flynn RFA if i was the GM (which I'm not) i would be exploring oppurtunities to move... DD and his 3.5 million or permenantly move him to 3rd line LW eller and his 4 million and give the young DLR the 3C role id sign or extend... sign mitchell as our 4C and possibly sign flynn on the cheap for depth at the position. id also offer plex an extension at the same rate of pay. the free agent market for Centers offers absolutely nothing unless we want mike "the distraction" ribiero so the trade market is our only option unless we re visit the whole galchenyuk debate... can eller, a mid prospect or 2 and a high draft pick bring in the grizzly jumbo joe? could you imagine the explosion of goals for patches and galallgher... there is no doubting joe thortons vision on the ice as a set up man and ability to make his wingers better. he's big but also unproven in the playoffs Max67# jumbo joe$ BG11*** reway* plex$ AG27*** DD# DLR* DSP*** prust$ mitchell$ weise# flynn# andrighetto* sherbak* NB*** PK# AM$ JP# AE# GP* JT* TG# *rookies ***young gun #prime $veteran **NOTE MOVING AG27 to RW could take advantage of his skills with the stick and force him to cut to the net and make a play rather then circle the perimeter or a take a low% shot?? also the added option of trading DD and moving up a winger is there or keeping him as a 3rd LW and C depth... i just think moving him will eliminate an option MT will surely fall back on the moment we hit a bump in any road. keeping him will help to not destroy a very tight room though. this to me is a nice mix of fresh blood, young guns prime players and veteran presence traded eller PAP unnamed prospect high draft pick released gonchar weaver malholtra allen IN tinordi LD reway LW andrighetto RW mitchell C Flynn C thorton C this would be my vision for a serious stanley cup run starting next season... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IN THE HEARTS OF MEN Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 Pleks epic gaffe on the failed dump-in off Max's back still grinds my gears. But, he isn't the only one that let me down this post-season. MB will get something done this summer..i don't know what, but we've got to improve up front. Perimeter play won't cut it. Just wondering, what's the general consensus on Martin Reway? I've only seen him at WJC, so I'd say he's pretty slick offensively. However, WJC success doesn't necessarily translate to NHL success, so I'm not going to wish upon a star he's very good.. i was loving him the previous WJC but he didn't get enough love even though he had tonnes of points in an early exit playing with the Slovaks. people were loving our finn because they went deep and maybe hoping he'd be our next koivu. this year he captained the slovaks. absolutely all of there offence went through him. he led them to an unlikely bronze. he was one of the players of the tournament for a 2nd year in a row. Reway has been one of the best players on Sparta Praha this season as a 19 yr old tied for 3rd in scoring in reg season while playing 10 less games and seeing less minutes on the 3rd line (**note to Eller). finished the season as a point per game skater in the pro league. For reference he completely outpaced San Jose's Tomas Hertl scoring as a 19-year-old in that league. he again finished 3rd in playoff scoring and helped sparta to the final four. he is a PP dynamo as well. on the small size, not quite DD small but plays with much, much more offensive talent. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 Considering that I never said anything about Plekanec in that post, your riposte is quite strange. However, if you can't see that Pleks is a significantly better player than Eller is - which is in no way to place Pleks above criticism - then I'm not sure which games you're watching. Don't you just love the pass the buck game from some here? Anything to deflect! How about instead we recognize: - The Habs as a team had trouble scoring. Their best scorer, Max Pacioretty, was the only player with solid playoff numbers. - Tomas Plekanec was the weakest scorer on the top line, which was the closest line to consistency scoring we had in the playoffs. - Lars Eller disproved his own myth that he's a big game playoff performer, having only 4 points and being unable to play top six competition when Therrien put him with two offensive players in the playoffs. He looked good on the third line, non-existent on the second line. If Eller was a "big game playoff performer" he would have outscored Torrey Mitchell. - Alex Galchenyuk had his weakest PPG playoff numbers of his young career. He was good versus Ottawa in 13, great versus New York in 14, mediocre versus Ottawa and Tampa in 15. - Mitchell, Brian Flynn and Devante Smith-Pelly combined for 10 even strength points in 319 even strength minutes. Eller, David Desharnais and P.A. Parenteau combined for 6 even strength points in 415 even strength minutes. We paid the Mitchell/Flynn/Smith-Pelly combo $552,000 as late additions on the cap. We paid the Eller/DD/PAP combo $11,000,000. - Before someone asks, Plekanec had 4 even strength points. He also split his points on home and road. Pacioretty and Brendan Gallagher, despite solid road numbers (9 points combined) had only 3 points at home. Mitchell, Flynn and Smith-Pelly all had more home points (3) than Pacioretty, Gallagher, Plekanec, PAP, Eller, DD, etc. Lars Eller had one point on the road, same with Desharnais. Dale Weise couldn't score at home, only on the road. - Lars Eller combined this year (season and playoffs) for 12 points in 46 road games. To put in perspective, John Mitchell of the Colorado Avalanche makes $1.7M less and put up 3 more points on the road in 12 less games (and didn't have the benefit of the playoffs). For those who don't know Mitchell, he's 6'1", 204lbs, left handed and used to show flashes of brilliance in Toronto so they nicknamed him "Johnny Malkin'. His 32 point season is better than any Eller season total. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illWill Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 Max67# jumbo joe$ BG11*** reway* plex$ AG27*** DD# DLR* DSP*** prust$ mitchell$ weise# flynn# andrighetto* sherbak* NB*** PK# AM$ JP# AE# GP* JT* this would be my vision for a serious stanley cup run starting next season... I totally agree that something like this should and hopefully will be how the Habs improve for next season. Thornton would be an excellent pickup and with him being on the outs with his GM, could be shipped out of town if he waives the NTC I believe he has. Then finally, we have that "#1 big center" that has been a need for as long as I can remember. Plekanec can then slot in to the second line where he belongs and all is right in the world. Personally I can't wait for the time when people can't use the word smurf, or say weak at center when describing the Habs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nihilz Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 This is what needs to happen and nobody will be belly aching.. Pacioretty xxx1xxx Gallagher Galchenyuk Plekanec xxx2xxx De la Rose Eller Smith-Pelly Prust Mitchell Weise xxx3xxx Flynn Markov Subban Beaulieu Petry Tinordi Pateryn xxx4xxx Gilbert Price Tokarski 1 || Trade: From Marleau to Draisaitl. Anything goes. Void: Scherbak, McCarron, Hudon & listed roster(almost entirely). 2 || Sign RH RW with some finish and adequate skating ability (Better than PAP). Hope McCarron or Scherbak forces MB to clear a spot. 3 || Sign another Prust. Not at Prust money. 4 || Sign 2-way Dman for call up insurance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbhatt Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 Ok...I saw that Andrei Kostitsyn wanted to make an NHL return and didn't even bat an eyelash...no way. BUT, now Radulov wants to as well. I would not be adverse to taking a gamble on him (say 2 years at a reasonable price, and perhaps conditional on a team-appointed 'sober coach' to make sure the vodka consumtion is at a minimum). He has proved difficult to coach, but he would be the shot of true top level talent we need on RW right away if he panned out. Heck, even booze soaked, he likely produces more goals than any RW currently on our roster or in our system. Thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 Ok...I saw that Andrei Kostitsyn wanted to make an NHL return and didn't even bat an eyelash...no way. BUT, now Radulov wants to as well. I would not be adverse to taking a gamble on him (say 2 years at a reasonable price, and perhaps conditional on a team-appointed 'sober coach' to make sure the vodka consumtion is at a minimum). He has proved difficult to coach, but he would be the shot of true top level talent we need on RW right away if he panned out. Heck, even booze soaked, he likely produces more goals than any RW currently on our roster or in our system. Thoughts? I'd gamble on Radulov if he got out of his contract any day. I'd also consider Sergei Plotnikov who just got out of his deal with Lokomotiv. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IN THE HEARTS OF MEN Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 Ok...I saw that Andrei Kostitsyn wanted to make an NHL return and didn't even bat an eyelash...no way. BUT, now Radulov wants to as well. I would not be adverse to taking a gamble on him (say 2 years at a reasonable price, and perhaps conditional on a team-appointed 'sober coach' to make sure the vodka consumtion is at a minimum). He has proved difficult to coach, but he would be the shot of true top level talent we need on RW right away if he panned out. Heck, even booze soaked, he likely produces more goals than any RW currently on our roster or in our system. Thoughts? radulov or kovalchuk for sure... kostistyn no way noticed all of a sudden there is a french article on reway? need a translation.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 I don't think Radulov fits MB's view of a "character player". He is very talented but his attitude leaves a lot to be desired from what I have read. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 radulov or kovalchuk for sure... kostistyn no way noticed all of a sudden there is a french article on reway? need a translation.... Not sure which it is but there was a bit of hub bub on a Habs blogger claiming Reway was days from becoming a free agent and his information was incorrect. He was corrected by several people, made up a source that "corrected" for him and said everyone else was just guessing. The article might be on clarifying how his rights extend to 2017. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stogey24 Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 Radulov wont come cheap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 Radulov wont come cheap. I would gladly buy out PAP and sign Radulov to a multi year deal. Had he stayed in the NHL he would have been making at least $6M per season on Nashville. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted May 27, 2015 Author Share Posted May 27, 2015 Radulov isnt real committed teamplayer is he? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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