Trade Subban traded to Nashville

[BCHabnut]

Colonel Klink

[hab29RETIRED]

Colonel Klink

sure. but he was the the commandant of Stalag 13.

[BCHabnut]

Ah. That's right.

[habs rule]

There has been way way over the top reaction to the trade and constant and very loud complaining about how bad it is. Call it what you want.

Watch what PK does now, you may understand.

[DON]

Watch what PK does now, you may understand.

I had hoped Subban would break 20g plateau last year.

[xXx..CK..xXx]

Watch what PK does now, you may understand.

I just want to say that one has to admit that while I'm not convinced that PK will turn into some superhuman modern day Bobby Orr as a result of a new "system" and coach, he has been given some sort of wake up call.

I also believe that his negative influence in the locker room has been overblown and actually think he has a great personality. With that being said, it wouldn't surprise me if Subban matures to an even greater extent both on and off the ice as a result of the trade.

I think that's a great piece of GMing on Poile's part because I think it could have played a role in his decision making and thought process. Unfortunately, it is a different situation to be MT or MB because Subban was already here and they attempted varying measures of giving him a wake up call(whether needed or not). Sure, we can blame Therrien and Bergevin for all I've stated here but Subban himself has a role in this as well and I would have said the same thing had he been coming here from Nashville.

Subban is at the age where he still has a little bit of maturing to do whereas Weber is pretty much you're getting what you've seen in terms of personality on and off the ice.

The indirect point of all of this is that if Subban does tear it up in Nashville, it doesn't mean the same would have happened in his environment here because I believe the trade will make him more motivated than had the status quo remained. In addition, that's not only because of the coach and management. It's just an opinion, but I can see it.

I personally expect Subban to be in the top 5-10 in scoring. I expect the same from Weber as well.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

Probably the biggest difference for Subban will come from his coach in Laviolette.

“Our own experience in the playoffs and moving forward is the teams that can generate the most speed … have the best chance of being successful,” coach Peter Laviolette said. “What I really think he brings to the table is speed. He is a dynamic player. There are nights where he’ll be able to put us on the edge of our seat. He has the skill set to go with that speed to make him an elite defenseman.”

Also maybe my memory is selective but I don't recall Bergevin ever talking about Subban like Poile does.

“I’m a general manager but someday I would like to be a fan. And this is a guy that I would pay money to see. I mean, he’s exciting to watch. He does something every game. He competes every game. He shows up every game. I think it’s going to be dynamic.”

[xXx..CK..xXx]

Probably the biggest difference for Subban will come from his coach in Laviolette.

Also maybe my memory is selective but I don't recall Bergevin ever talking about Subban like Poile does.

I hope you realize it's a slippery slope you're walking here because the same could have been said for Subban in 2013. Michel Therrien's first season back as coach of the Montreal Canadiens? 2012-2013. Does anyone remember when PK Subban won the Norris? I do. 2013. Was it because of the new coach? Props MT.

The biggest difference for Subban will be the fact he got a slap in the face and is in a new organization. That's something no coach has an influence on. Laviolette stated the obvious. There comes a point where a coach has to decide whether a player is bigger than the team. To all those stating that Weber will run out of miles before his contract runs out, perhaps Subban is the type of player who becomes tougher to coach after a few seasons. There's not much evidence to the contrary. Sure, Therrien or any coach can work better with him while understanding the psychological part of coaching and mentoring a player. If you do want him to be the type of player that Laviolette is portraying, he has to be bigger than the team though. That's what people love about him but I'm not convinced it's a recipe for success.

[hab29RETIRED]

MT had zilch to do with subban's Norris - just like he had zilch to do with price finally winning the vezina and hart. He criticized subban the entire year he won the Norris. It was his 4th year in the league, so you're surprised he didn't win it in his first 3 years in the league before le idiot was the coach???

If anything subban won in spite of the lousy cocach he had to contend with.

I hope you realize it's a slippery slope you're walking here because the same could have been said for Subban in 2013. Michel Therrien's first season back as coach of the Montreal Canadiens? 2012-2013. Does anyone remember when PK Subban won the Norris? I do. 2013. Was it because of the new coach? Props MT.

The biggest difference for Subban will be the fact he got a slap in the face and is in a new organization. That's something no coach has an influence on. Laviolette stated the obvious. There comes a point where a coach has to decide whether a player is bigger than the team. To all those stating that Weber will run out of miles before his contract runs out, perhaps Subban is the type of player who becomes tougher to coach after a few seasons. There's not much evidence to the contrary. Sure, Therrien or any coach can work better with him while understanding the psychological part of coaching and mentoring a player. If you do want him to be the type of player that Laviolette is portraying, he has to be bigger than the team though. That's what people love about him but I'm not convinced it's a recipe for success.

[Guest Stogey24]

Probably the biggest difference for Subban will come from his coach in Laviolette.

Also maybe my memory is selective but I don't recall Bergevin ever talking about Subban like Poile does.

Poile gave Subban more props in his 5min presser after the trade than Bergevin did his entire career in Montreal

[xXx..CK..xXx]

MT had zilch to do with subban's Norris - just like he had zilch to do with price finally winning the vezina and hart. He criticized subban the entire year he won the Norris. It was his 4th year in the league, so you're surprised he didn't win it in his first 3 years in the league before le idiot was the coach???

If anything subban won in spite of the lousy cocach he had to contend with.

Perfectly summed up and exactly my point. If Subban does well in Nashville it will be because of him, not Laviolette OR Therrien. I'm thinking the trade is only going to motivate him to excel, but there's no reason to draw any conclusions about his play next season in relating it to how he may have done here had he not been traded. And not because of coaching.

[Guest Stogey24]

How can you say coaching doesn't have an affect on a player?

[xXx..CK..xXx]

How can you say coaching doesn't have an affect on a player?

I hope coaches have an effect on players. I'm a professional coach for a living. (tennis)

I just don't think that any coach out there won't eventually coach PK as well. It's as though people are saying Subban will do well (better) in Nashville because Laviolette will allow him to be himself. If that's the case then I agree, what the heck do you need a coach for? Laviolette will eventually have something to say to Subban and will be "holding him back" as well. Any of those "interchangeable" coaches would, wouldn't they?

My point is that I don't think it's fair to say that Subban will succeed in Nashville because he was "allowed to play" with a new coach. It's not going to happen that way. Karlsson is better at the Bobby Orr style anyway. The way he has played is not necessarily only the coach.

Therrien was hard on a star though and there is a debate as to whether or not it was the right method. I'll definitely agree with that.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

I hope you realize it's a slippery slope you're walking here because the same could have been said for Subban in 2013. Michel Therrien's first season back as coach of the Montreal Canadiens? 2012-2013. Does anyone remember when PK Subban won the Norris? I do. 2013. Was it because of the new coach? Props MT.

You mean the guy who:

- killed the triple low-five

- played Subban third pairing with Francis Bouillon after he was forced into a bridge contract until it was clear that Subban was the best offensive weapon on D, all while not trusting him to play penalty kill or the final minutes of many games in 12-13 and 13-14.

- when asked if Subban was a world class player was quoted saying, "Whether I see him that way or not, my opinion doesn’t change anything."

There's no slippery slope. Therrien used to rip on Subban on L'Antichambre as well. He has never liked Subban. We've known it from the start and tried to believe it was just tough love.

[hab29RETIRED]

MT held subban back in Montreal. He was still a great player, but had one hand tied behind his back. No one held bobby Orr back, or Karlsson back. There is no way Karlsson scores as many points as he did with le idiot. When Lafleur was playing for Scotty bowman (greatest coach ever), Steve shutt said they hardly spent any time practicing the PP, because Lafleur didn't and couldn't be boxed into a set play. Bowman realized what he had and didn't try to limit his potential by holding him back.

Subban is finally going to an organization that is going to let him play to his abilities. Now we we will get a chance to see just how good subban can be.

I hope coaches have an effect on players. I'm a professional coach for a living. (tennis)

I just don't think that any coach out there won't eventually coach PK as well. It's as though people are saying Subban will do well (better) in Nashville because Laviolette will allow him to be himself. If that's the case then I agree, what the heck do you need a coach for? Laviolette will eventually have something to say to Subban and will be "holding him back" as well. Any of those "interchangeable" coaches would, wouldn't they?

My point is that I don't think it's fair to say that Subban will succeed in Nashville because he was "allowed to play" with a new coach. It's not going to happen that way. Karlsson is better at the Bobby Orr style anyway. The way he has played is not necessarily only the coach.

Therrien was hard on a star though and there is a debate as to whether or not it was the right method. I'll definitely agree with that.

[hab29RETIRED]

You mean the guy who:

- killed the triple low-five

- played Subban third pairing with Francis Bouillon after he was forced into a bridge contract until it was clear that Subban was the best offensive weapon on D, all while not trusting him to play penalty kill or the final minutes of many games in 12-13 and 13-14.

- when asked if Subban was a world class player was quoted saying, "Whether I see him that way or not, my opinion doesnt change anything."

There's no slippery slope. Therrien used to rip on Subban on L'Antichambre as well. He has never liked Subban. We've known it from the start and tried to believe it was just tough love.

When MT was hired I said we were going to lose him because of MT, most here said at the time MT is a replaceable coach and if it came down to it, MT would be gone and subban would still be playing here long after MT was no longer a coach. Guess what, the Habs chose a mediocre coach who will probably never get another coaching job again, over one of the top 3 dmen of his generation. Even worse than subban leaving because he was finally had enough of MT, the Habs incompetent management chose to move subban for a bungling incompetent idiot who only got the job because of the language he speaks and will never get an NHL coaching job once he and that other fool MB are fired.

[Meller93]

The best example of a guy coaching a specific player right is Barry Trotz on Ovechkin. I paraphrase Trotz to Ovie "When you have the puck you do your thing, when you DONT have the puck you do my thing.

The thing with coaching someone is that you don't Smush their incredible skill set into the confines of a system, you take advantage of that skill set and make a system that benefits from the players. It's EASY to make a system fit players you will NEVER change every single player to fit one system.

I think Laviolette gets that. I don't think MT ever did. Sure a team needs to have a system, but that system MUST fit the team first, not he other way around.

[Guest Stogey24]

^ what those guys said

[hab29RETIRED]

I'm so fed up with hearing MT and MB talk about the "system" and the "process". The only system we really hav is "stop the puck Carey". And the "process" is a player has to wait for an injury to the coaches favourite pet player, to get a real chance to play.

The best example of a guy coaching a specific player right is Barry Trotz on Ovechkin. I paraphrase Trotz to Ovie "When you have the puck you do your thing, when you DONT have the puck you do my thing.

The thing with coaching someone is that you don't Smush their incredible skill set into the confines of a system, you take advantage of that skill set and make a system that benefits from the players. It's EASY to make a system fit players you will NEVER change every single player to fit one system.

I think Laviolette gets that. I don't think MT ever did. Sure a team needs to have a system, but that system MUST fit the team first, not he other way around.

[illWill]

I'd just like to throw it out there that every team is different and has their own strengths and weaknesses. You can't just say Pittsburgh won the cup a certain way so that's the key to winning. Just like you can't say Boston, LA or Chicago won it a certain way. Every year there is a tendency to copy the cup winner because that's what worked for them. The Habs cannot replicate what Pittsburgh did because they don't have the players they have. They don't have 3 of the top point producers of the last decade on their team. They have the best goalie in the world. What works for Pittsburgh won't necessarily work for Montreal. Saying "stop da puck Carey" as a negative comment towards coaching is like saying " score da goals Sidney". Superstars gonna superstar

[Guest Stogey24]

It takes zero strategy to have Price standing on his head.

[DON]

It takes zero strategy to have Price standing on his head.

Geez, that is an original post.

[Guest Stogey24]

It's the truth. Will says telling price to save the puck isn't a negative, and that's true,but it becomes a negative when thats your only threat(if that's what you want to call it). Therrien said himself, you need 3 goals to win a game...

[xXx..CK..xXx]

MT held subban back in Montreal. He was still a great player, but had one hand tied behind his back. No one held bobby Orr back, or Karlsson back. There is no way Karlsson scores as many points as he did with le idiot. When Lafleur was playing for Scotty bowman (greatest coach ever), Steve shutt said they hardly spent any time practicing the PP, because Lafleur didn't and couldn't be boxed into a set play. Bowman realized what he had and didn't try to limit his potential by holding him back.

Subban is finally going to an organization that is going to let him play to his abilities. Now we we will get a chance to see just how good subban can be.

I don't think it's MT's fault that Subban couldn't hit the broad side of a barn with his slap shot in the offensive zone last season. Teams key in on star players and even if the coach comes up up with a strategy to change the method, the other team's defenders will still key in on Subban. Subban's point totals have increased every year in the league. Last year was lower but he was on pace for 62 if he played a full season. I repeat, Subban's point totals have increased every year while MT was behind the bench.

In Montreal, Subban's point totals have increased despite MT, and in Nashville they will (theoretically) go up thanks to a coach who let's Subban be Subban. Okay, you've proven your bias against MT.

I personally don't agree that he'll reach the 70 point plateau. Apparently if he does though, it will be because of a coach who just lets him do his thing, rather than PK's natural progression as a player. If he reaches PPG status, then Laviolette IS a genius.

[illWill]

It takes zero strategy to have Price standing on his head.

It also takes zero strategy to have Crosby score goals, or in this case, Subban to get points

It's the truth. Will says telling price to save the puck isn't a negative, and that's true,but it becomes a negative when thats your only threat(if that's what you want to call it). Therrien said himself, you need 3 goals to win a game...

Only two teams last season averaged more than 3 goals per game.

In Montreal, Subban's point totals have increased despite MT, and in Nashville they will (theoretically) go up thanks to a coach who let's Subban be Subban. Okay, you've proven your bias against MT.

I personally don't agree that he'll reach the 70 point plateau. Apparently if he does though, it will be because of a coach who just lets him do his thing, rather than PK's natural progression as a player. If he reaches PPG status, then Laviolette IS a genius.

It's a battle I've been fighting for years. Impossible to make any sort of change in opinions, or any sort of agreement that MT helped PK in any way whatsoever, or even at the very least has had a neutral influence on him. Therrien could have saved PK from a burning building and the narrative would be that it was Therrien's fault he was in the building to begin with.