Trade Subban traded to Nashville

[Robert Ethan]

Bergevin and Therrien are judged on the product they put on the ice, not the off ice entertainment value of the players. They won't get hired or fired on the basis of how well Shea Weber does vs. Subban at an open mic comedy club. Not that I think Subban is particularly funny or entertaining, nor do I suspect the majority of his teammates. Clearly Weber is regarded as the better player at his position by the collection of NHL experienced executives of Team Canada. They wouldn't exclude Subban on the basis of team chemistry or media perception for such a short time frame as the WC. I don't think they are too worried about his impact on a collection of veteran superstars. In terms of media, there would be every reason to include him since the series is being played in his home town, and he would probably be the only minority on the team. Despite all that they did not consider him one of the top 6 or 8 Canadian defensemen in hockey at the moment. Weber is on the team, and if past history indicates will be a top line player. End of argument.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

Not that I think Subban is particularly funny or entertaining

Don't worry, your bias is always showing.

[zumpano21]

This thread is way too long to check everything. Apologies if this has been thrown out there already.

Was this trade run by Price before it happened? Did he give it the OK?

Clearly MB cannot lose both PK and Price on his watch - and we all know Price is up for renewal soon. Do I run this by Carey to make sure he's ok with it, or do I just gunsling the deal?

[Machine of Loving Grace]

This thread is way too long to check everything. Apologies if this has been thrown out there already.

Was this trade run by Price before it happened? Did he give it the OK?

Clearly MB cannot lose both PK and Price on his watch - and we all know Price is up for renewal soon. Do I run this by Carey to make sure he's ok with it, or do I just gunsling the deal?

According to Bergevin yes.

Shea Weber is a good friend of Carey's so it's kind of one friend in one friend out.

If the habs don't produce results in the next two years and there's a championship quality team looking for a starting goalie, Carey might leave. Or he'll stay in Montreal where it's comfortable and can command any salary he wants.

[Lovett's Magnatones]

Bergevin and Therrien are judged on the product they put on the ice, not the off ice entertainment value of the players. They won't get hired or fired on the basis of how well Shea Weber does vs. Subban at an open mic comedy club. Not that I think Subban is particularly funny or entertaining, nor do I suspect the majority of his teammates. Clearly Weber is regarded as the better player at his position by the collection of NHL experienced executives of Team Canada. They wouldn't exclude Subban on the basis of team chemistry or media perception for such a short time frame as the WC. I don't think they are too worried about his impact on a collection of veteran superstars. In terms of media, there would be every reason to include him since the series is being played in his home town, and he would probably be the only minority on the team. Despite all that they did not consider him one of the top 6 or 8 Canadian defensemen in hockey at the moment. Weber is on the team, and if past history indicates will be a top line player. End of argument.

Team Canada selections are the opinions of a few GMs and coaches...stop positing their snub as fact. PK has been selected for three of these teams out of four going back to the WJC, so Hockey Canada thinks pretry highly of him, imo.

Your comments about Subban being desirable because he's a hometown minority are idiotic.

[Meller93]

Thank you for your important contributions to our conversation. I don't know where we would be if we didn't have comments like this. The point you have made created an intellectual stimulus that has made me re-consider all my opinions, and now changed my view on things.

Hahahah, this is hands down the easiest I've ever been able to pick up sarcasm through text. Bravo!

[Guest Stogey24]

According to Bergevin yes.

Shea Weber is a good friend of Carey's so it's kind of one friend in one friend out.

If the habs don't produce results in the next two years and there's a championship quality team looking for a starting goalie, Carey might leave. Or he'll stay in Montreal where it's comfortable and can command any salary he wants.

That's a scary thought of Price leaving.

I'm glad the Canucks aren't a great team. I could see Price wanting to be closer to home.

[JoeLassister]

That's a scary thought of Price leaving.

I'm glad the Canucks aren't a great team. I could see Price wanting to be closer to home.

(talking about "closer to home", make sure to watch that video :

)

[Machine of Loving Grace]

That's a scary thought of Price leaving.

I'm glad the Canucks aren't a great team. I could see Price wanting to be closer to home.

Lucic settled with Edmonton. Calgary isn't settled on a goalie of the future yet with plenty of young forwards and defencemen.

[Lovett's Magnatones]

Lucic settled with Edmonton. Calgary isn't settled on a goalie of the future yet with plenty of young forwards and defencemen.

Might be a blessing in disguise if we can get two good years out of him. If he gets injured again, I don't want him to get a monster deal.

[Commandant]

Bergevin and Therrien are judged on the product they put on the ice, not the off ice entertainment value of the players. They won't get hired or fired on the basis of how well Shea Weber does vs. Subban at an open mic comedy club. Not that I think Subban is particularly funny or entertaining, nor do I suspect the majority of his teammates. Clearly Weber is regarded as the better player at his position by the collection of NHL experienced executives of Team Canada. They wouldn't exclude Subban on the basis of team chemistry or media perception for such a short time frame as the WC. I don't think they are too worried about his impact on a collection of veteran superstars. In terms of media, there would be every reason to include him since the series is being played in his home town, and he would probably be the only minority on the team. Despite all that they did not consider him one of the top 6 or 8 Canadian defensemen in hockey at the moment. Weber is on the team, and if past history indicates will be a top line player. End of argument.

Team Canada executives once choose Rob Zamuner on the team.... They selected Kirk Maltby and Kris Draper over a 19 year old Sidney Crosby.... they have made numerous other dubious choices over the years. The idea that because they run Team Canada they are infallible and made the right choice is completely ludicrous.

Fact is that other hockey people... namely David Poile (a man renowned throughout the hockey world for his excellent evaluation and development of defencemen)... Langway, Scott Stevens, Hatcher, Gonchar, Johansson, Timonnen, Weber, Suter, Josi, Hamhuis, Ekholm, Ellis, all were acquired by him when they were young. This man with an excellent eye for defencemen, has decided that Subban is better than Weber. That should scare you just a little bit.

Thats without you even bringing up the concept of hometown and minority which show your bigotry and bias.

End of Argument.

[PMAC]

I would take prime Lidstrom over any player I've seen since Gretzky Mario or Roy. That's how much I loved his game. Don't get me wrong. I was talking about at that moment when Lidstrom was 39 40 and Chara was 31 32.

A formerly dominant defenseman gradually declining as he ages is why I hate the Weber for Subban trade. I've said it multiple times. There is no way Montreal wins this trade in the long-term given the age difference and the wear and tear on Weber.

Bergevin is not an idiot--despite this trade-- so he must have a short term plan to make this team a cup winner within the next two years, but this doesn't jive very will with the " contend for many years" philosophy that he supposedly had--and practiced-- until the Subban trade. Arrgh! As Arpon Basu said on TSN Radio, " this trade will never make sense"!

[Guest Stogey24]

What's the average life span of a g.m in the nhl? Does Bergevin really care about 5 years down the road from now?

[Machine of Loving Grace]

What's the average life span of a g.m in the nhl? Does Bergevin really care about 5 years down the road from now?

Not really. He won't be in Montreal by then.

[xXx..CK..xXx]

Not really. He won't be in Montreal by then.

If there's anyone in the organization I've been down on it's been Bergevin but I don't think that's fair to say. Even if I didn't think I would be there in a season I would still do my job while thinking about the effect my moves have in the future.

If he's thinking short term success only, then he's going for it. If he has the success, there's no reason to think he won't be here for quite some time. If he doesn't, then I guess one could argue he wasn't thinking clearly about the short term OR the long term.

[Robert Ethan]

How does saying that Subban would garner added media attention at the Toronto WC for being a hometown guy and a visible minority in the overwhelmingly white NHL come off as "idiotic"? Seems quite obvious to me. A lot of the conspiratorial reasons for trading "the better player" for "the worse player" have revolved around Subban's race and media presence among his fans here. Both would be assets as far as the Toronto tournament is concerned. Clearly the selectors overlooked him because they felt other Canadian players at the position gave the team a better chance to win. Why would it be different as far as Les Canadiens are concerned?

Subban seems to have been chosen to previous teams more out of tokenism than anything else. He hardly got on the ice. If all of the different VERY EXPERIENCED and PROVEN SUCCESSFUL hockey people involved in the process to put together NEARLY FLAWLESS teams competition wise thought Subban wasn't an asset on the ice while Shea Weber played top line minutes the message seems obvious.

Edited July 19, 2016 by ethan raphael

[Commandant]

"Subban seems to have been chosen to previous teams more out of tokenism than anything else."

Oh go yourself.

He won the Norris the year before the Olympics.

He was the top defenceman on the 2009 World Junior Team and led the tournament in scoring.

Give me a ing break man. You're ed if you think the reason he was selected is the color of his skin.

[sbhatt]

Subban seems to have been chosen to previous teams more out of tokenism than anything else. He hardly got on the ice. If all of the different VERY EXPERIENCED and PROVEN SUCCESSFUL hockey people involved in the process to put together NEARLY FLAWLESS teams competition wise thought Subban wasn't an asset on the ice while Shea Weber played top line minutes the message seems obvious.

I read this twice to make sure I actually read what I thought I did. Commandant said most of what I thought I could say without crossing the line, and I'll refrain from adding the more colorful thoughts that I have about your half-baked opinion. I can't think of a time in recent history where trying to inject colour as an issue in the debate would be more foolish.

[dlbalr]

How does saying that Subban would garner added media attention at the Toronto WC for being a hometown guy and a visible minority in the overwhelmingly white NHL come off as "idiotic"? Seems quite obvious to me. A lot of the conspiratorial reasons for trading "the better player" for "the worse player" have revolved around Subban's race and media presence among his fans here. Both would be assets as far as the Toronto tournament is concerned. Clearly the selectors overlooked him because they felt other Canadian players at the position gave the team a better chance to win. Why would it be different as far as Les Canadiens are concerned?

Subban seems to have been chosen to previous teams more out of tokenism than anything else. He hardly got on the ice. If all of the different VERY EXPERIENCED and PROVEN SUCCESSFUL hockey people involved in the process to put together NEARLY FLAWLESS teams competition wise thought Subban wasn't an asset on the ice while Shea Weber played top line minutes the message seems obvious.

We can do without bringing race into the equation when assessing this trade. There is zero evidence whatsoever to suggest that Hockey Canada's selection of Subban in the past is merely race-related as you allege. I can't speak for everyone here but I don't think the fans liked (or disliked) Subban based on his race either. There is more than enough to discuss about this trade and the World Cup selections without bringing race into the equation. Let's keep the discussion related to hockey.

[Robert Ethan]

I certainly wasn't the one who "introduced" race into the discussion. It's a common theme among those denigrating the trade. I've seen accusations against Bergevin, Therrien, and members of the Francophone media everywhere in that regard. Or, the more politically correct insinuation that they can't deal with someone "different". My point is simply that Subban's minority status is more likely to be an asset than a detriment when representing the country internationally. Maybe 40 years ago it might have been a handicap, but sports generally and sports internationally celebrate diversity as much as possible. For those who can't accept that Habs management made the trade for purely hockey reasons.

I saw a comment early in this thread, saying that Subban was traded because "the self-rightous whiteys running the team [hatted] him". That didn't seem to spark outrage.

Edited July 19, 2016 by ethan raphael

[hab29RETIRED]

This is idiotic. Race would not be a handicap and only be a positive for subban.

Yep, a national broadcaster didn't say on a national broadcast that subban needed to learn to play the "white" way.

I certainly wasn't the one who "introduced" race into the discussion. It's a common theme among those denigrating the trade. I've seen accusations against Bergevin, Therrien, and members of the Francophone media everywhere in that regard. Or, the more politically correct insinuation that they can't deal with someone "different". My point is simply that Subban's minority status is more likely to be an asset than a detriment when representing the country internationally. Maybe 40 years ago it might have been a handicap, but sports generally and sports internationally celebrate diversity as much as possible. For those who can't accept that Habs management made the trade for purely hockey reasons.

I saw a comment early in this thread, saying that Subban was traded because "the self-rightous whiteys running the team [hatted] him". That didn't seem to spark outrage.

[Robert Ethan]

I'm not aware of that comment from a national broadcaster but it doesn't sound like it was meant as a criticism of Subban, more likely a jab at his critics. But I could be wrong. If it was directed at Subban in a derogatory manner, I doubt that the broadcaster is still currently employed at his position. Or at least he shouldn't be.

Haha, just realized it was YOU "habs29RETIRED" who dropped the "self-righous whiteys" turd back at the start of the thread. You in a fine position to call out racism. (It didn't register until I noticed the same mangling of the English language).

Edited July 19, 2016 by ethan raphael

[Lovett's Magnatones]

"Subban seems to have been chosen to previous teams more out of tokenism than anything else."

Oh go ###### yourself.

He won the Norris the year before the Olympics.

He was the top defenceman on the 2009 World Junior Team and led the tournament in scoring.

Give me a ######ing break man. You're ######ed if you think the reason he was selected is the color of his skin.

Not worth responding to, imo, and I've been the most politcally incorrect (or perhaps just American) member of this board for years.

[hab29RETIRED]

I guess you made it to being 1st ever to go on my ignore list. Mangling of the English language. Whatever dickhead.

I'm not aware of that comment from a national broadcaster but it doesn't sound like it was meant as a criticism of Subban, more likely a jab at his critics. But I could be wrong. If it was directed at Subban in a derogatory manner, I doubt that the broadcaster is still currently employed at his position. Or at least he shouldn't be.

Haha, just realized it was YOU "habs29RETIRED" who dropped the "self-righous whiteys" turd back at the start of the thread. You in a fine position to call out racism. (It didn't register until I noticed the same mangling of the English language).

[dlbalr]

I certainly wasn't the one who "introduced" race into the discussion. It's a common theme among those denigrating the trade. I've seen accusations against Bergevin, Therrien, and members of the Francophone media everywhere in that regard. Or, the more politically correct insinuation that they can't deal with someone "different". My point is simply that Subban's minority status is more likely to be an asset than a detriment when representing the country internationally. Maybe 40 years ago it might have been a handicap, but sports generally and sports internationally celebrate diversity as much as possible. For those who can't accept that Habs management made the trade for purely hockey reasons.

I saw a comment early in this thread, saying that Subban was traded because "the self-rightous whiteys running the team [hatted] him". That didn't seem to spark outrage.

While the response was made in reply to one of your posts, the comment about avoiding getting into the racial element was intended for everyone, not just you. It's a touchy subject and considering it's starting to annoy several posters, it's a good time to take that element away from the discussion.