What's management doing with how they're building this team????

[Metallica]

59 minutes ago, Link67 said:

 

I don't know who's knickers you bunched up, but lately you seem to be instantly downvoted regardless of content, i've seen the same constant 2 downvotes on even your most insightful posts of late, that childish crap needs to stop.

 

 Clearly a couple haters are abusing the downvote system in a manner it wasn't intended..

Abusing the downvote system you say I was at 50 and in less then a week I went down to 13 just because I talk bad about Bergevin 

[Trizzak]

1 hour ago, Metallica said:

Abusing the downvote system you say I was at 50 and in less then a week I went down to 13 just because I talk bad about Bergevin 

No dude, it's cause you're constantly pessimistic and antagonistic, and your posts about Bergevin are usually at best unnecessarily exaggerated, or at worst grossly uninformed. 

 

The anti-Bergevin shtick probably worked for you when the team was shit for a season. Since then most fans have been happy with the team's progress and the job Bergevin has done with the rebuild/retool. 

 

So you can keep on proudly conducting the Bergevin-Hate train that most Habs fans have stopped riding, but your pettiness towards those of us who are enjoying this team is tiresome. 

[Habber31]

11 hours ago, Commandant said:

 

His advanced.stats suggest he is a credible top 4 defenceman.  A number 5 at absolute worst.

 

You can believe whatever you want... but the Petry-kulak pairing was excellent last season and a legit top pair from their stats.

 

But that is also ignoring my main point which is that this is the same D that missed the playoffs by 2 points and was without Weber for 2 months last year.

 

As for the downvote... i didnt even notice til you said it.  I dont care about votes.

Kulak and Petry a top pair, come on. That only further exemplifies this team's deficiency on defense...

 

Sorry, I forgot you're above down voting. You're only into handing them out like candy on Halloween 

[Commandant]

9 hours ago, Metallica said:

Problem with this D is the same as last years D and the year before that.

1) cant box out the front of the net

2) hard time clearing the zone 

3) can't set up the PP

4)they give up way too much 2 on 1 and break a ways.

 

Outside of Weber and Petry they don't produce points.

 

We don't get enough production from our D. Also nit deep enough if we get injuries there.

 

Mete still needs more development but isn't a top pairing guy more of a 4-6 kind of guy right now but needs more time.

 

Its been 5 games... 4 of which, yes, showed these problems.

 

Last season this defence did a very good job in their own end.  I think we should give Julien a little time to see if he can get them back to that level.  Three of those four werent issues.last year (the pp was). That said we have four pp goals in five games so far so maybe even the fourth can be solved.  If you look around the league now... most teams are having a forward quarterback the powerplay anyways so its not a huge issue if we run our pp with 4 forwards and one of weber and petry on each unit.

 

Yes mete has struggled in the 4 games.  He also struggled at the start of last season but was excellent after his week and a half in the AHL.  There is no reason he cant get back to last years level of play.

 

While its true that the D needs a top pair LHD to be a cup contender.  It can still be a playoff team with that hole unfilled.  Playoff teams arent perfect.  They have holes.  

[Commandant]

1 hour ago, Habber31 said:

Kulak and Petry a top pair, come on. That only further exemplifies this team's deficiency on defense...

 

Sorry, I forgot you're above down voting. You're only into handing them out like candy on Halloween 

 

Here is the thing... the stats dont lie.

 

The kulak-petry pair had a 57.4% corsi last year 

 

Every right handed defenceman was better with kulak than without him.  He raised the play of all partners when playing with them.

57.4 vs 55.2 for Petry (with him, vs without him)

58.8 vs 52.3 for Weber

55.0 vs 53.1 for Benn

 

With Kulak on the ice the habs were also better at reducing high danger scoring chances against.  Here is the heat map.  The Habs were 12% better than league average with Kulak on the ice and only 1% better than league average with him off the ice.

 

 

 

Kulak is a top 4 Dman.... He helps in both ends of the rink.  He's evolved into a good player since we traded for him.  People want to look at him as just a guy who Calgary put on waivers and we traded for after he cleared, sure that's true and all... but the fact is Calgary also put Paul Byron on waivers and last I checked he is a better player in Montreal than he was in Calgary. 

 

Kulak has become part 2 of Bergevin stealing a valuable player from the Flames.  The stats don't have the implicit bias of thinking he isn't good cause he was on waivers and traded for cheap... they evaluate every player equally and Kulak is a #3 defenceman based on them. 

Put him with a guy who the stats say is a legit #1 (Petry), and has been for 2 years... and Kulak-Petry is a worth top pairing and is the Habs best pairing... better even than Weber-Mete.  (That said, based on limited minutes Weber-Kulak would be the Habs top pair if put together).

[Commandant]

10 hours ago, Link67 said:

 

I don't know who's knickers you bunched up, but lately you seem to be instantly downvoted regardless of content, i've seen the same constant 2 downvotes on even your most insightful posts of late, that childish crap needs to stop.

 

 Clearly a couple haters are abusing the downvote system in a manner it wasn't intended..

 

I'm pretty sure I know which two users it is... the two who complain more about downvotes than anyone else. 

That said, I truly don't care.  Its like whose line is it anyway... the points are made up and mean nothing. If i could redeem them for something it might be different. 

[DON]

10 hours ago, Metallica said:

 

1) cant box out the front of the net Weber-Charirot-Juulsen-Fleury all are physical d-men,

2) hard time clearing the zone Agree, but common problem for many teams, isnt it?

3) can't set up the PP Not job of d-man to set up the PP.

4)they give up way too much 2 on 1 and break a ways. Not sure about this one, no way to prove, so i will say i doubt are worse than average.

 

Outside of Weber and Petry they don't produce points.

We don't get enough production from our D.

2018-19

St Louis defense scored 154pts, Bruins 152pts...Habs 157pts

 

Mete still needs more development but isn't a top pairing guy more of a 4-6 kind of guy right now but needs more time.

From what Bergevin paid for Chairot, seems was best available for LH d-man, that would sign in Quebec. Mete is not hurting the team at all, but obviously 2nd pairing would be a better fit for a non-physical not-offensive d-man who can really skate.

 

[ch_nl]

I'm so excited about this team! (Haven't been this optimistic in years!)

 

I do agree about the defense. Sure, Weber is good, but I do really se Petry as the most usable of the two. And still not convinced about Chariot... Kulak is underrated. The hard puzzle is pairing, as non of the pairings are "greater than the sum".

 

Alzner didn't work out well, most likely because of speed. I really liked then signing back then, but the game is so much faster now, and especially the Habs play a speed-game. Maybe this hurts Weber too? (But, then again, Mete should thrive...)

[BCHabnut]

I think its time to do a Mete plus a 1st rounder for a legit lefty to play with Weber. The youngsters are getting big contacts earlier these days, so cap crunch is coming.  I think MB needs to create a window at this point. Not wait for it. The offensive depth of this team is fantastic. The young call up depth at forward is very good.  Add to that Price Weber and Petry, and I really think it's time to seek a trade and potentially give up some picks, prospects, players to do it. It annoys me that this won't happen because the draft is in Montreal.  

[tomh009]

I really don't think the location of the draft has played a big part in the accumulation of draft picks. Maybe a bit in choosing 2020 over 2019 or 2021, but not in the drive to build up the prospect pipeline. (Whether you agree with the strategy or not, of course.)

[dlbalr]

48 minutes ago, BCHabnut said:

I think its time to do a Mete plus a 1st rounder for a legit lefty to play with Weber. The youngsters are getting big contacts earlier these days, so cap crunch is coming.  I think MB needs to create a window at this point. Not wait for it. The offensive depth of this team is fantastic. The young call up depth at forward is very good.  Add to that Price Weber and Petry, and I really think it's time to seek a trade and potentially give up some picks, prospects, players to do it. It annoys me that this won't happen because the draft is in Montreal.  

 

Had Carolina not matched on Aho, the Habs would have parted with first, second, and third rounders all from the upcoming draft in Montreal.  That suggests to me that Bergevin is open to moving a pick from this draft in the right situation.

[BCHabnut]

17 minutes ago, dlbalr said:

 

Had Carolina not matched on Aho, the Habs would have parted with first, second, and third rounders all from the upcoming draft in Montreal.  That suggests to me that Bergevin is open to moving a pick from this draft in the right situation.

That's a good point.  I really feel like an upgrade on Mete is the only glaring hole on this team. 

[Commandant]

Just now, BCHabnut said:

That's a good point.  I really feel like an upgrade on Mete is the only glaring hole on this team. 

 

I still think we need a LH shot for the pp too. 

I like Jason Zucker... 48th in PP Goals over the last two years, excellent one timer from the right circle, and an outstanding 2-way player at even strength. 

The Wild almost traded him twice in the summer but that was the now fired Fenton, I wonder if Guerin also wants to move him.

[BCHabnut]

8 minutes ago, Commandant said:

 

I still think we need a LH shot for the pp too. 

I like Jason Zucker... 48th in PP Goals over the last two years, excellent one timer from the right circle, and an outstanding 2-way player at even strength. 

The Wild almost traded him twice in the summer but that was the now fired Fenton, I wonder if Guerin also wants to move him.

The goal line play has helped add some unpredictability to the pp. But I agree.  A left shooter is a need. A left d is a glaring hole though. 

[Metallica]

On 10/15/2019 at 8:54 PM, dlbalr said:

 

Had Carolina not matched on Aho, the Habs would have parted with first, second, and third rounders all from the upcoming draft in Montreal.  That suggests to me that Bergevin is open to moving a pick from this draft in the right situation.

Yeah but is he willing to move a prospect with that pick to get a deal done? I don't think so, which is why we haven't seen any trades.

[Commandant]

1 hour ago, Metallica said:

Yeah but is he willing to move a prospect with that pick to get a deal done? I don't think so, which is why we haven't seen any trades.

 

There has not been any trades because no one in the NHL is making trades right now. 

 

We have a couple of deals where guys cleared waivers and then got traded, but we have not had one significant trade in the NHL this season.  Not one. 

 

There is a reason for that and its the same thing that happens every year.  Big trades never happen this early in the season. Its usually around American Thanksgiving that trading season opens.  That said, we've seen a couple that are done a week or two before that, so maybe you can look at the second week of November instead of all the way to Thanksgiving, but don't expect anything to happen now. 

[Metallica]

1 hour ago, Commandant said:

 

There has not been any trades because no one in the NHL is making trades right now. 

 

We have a couple of deals where guys cleared waivers and then got traded, but we have not had one significant trade in the NHL this season.  Not one. 

 

There is a reason for that and its the same thing that happens every year.  Big trades never happen this early in the season. Its usually around American Thanksgiving that trading season opens.  That said, we've seen a couple that are done a week or two before that, so maybe you can look at the second week of November instead of all the way to Thanksgiving, but don't expect anything to happen now. 

I am not talking about now, talking about last 2 years.

[Prime Minister Koivu]

One question that I have is what is going on with Kotkaniemi's ice time? 

 

Thompson averages more ice time per game...

 

I thought Kman was playing well and looking pretty good. Is there something that I'm missing?

[Commandant]

Bergevin has made more trades than any other GM in the last two years.  Being afraid to make trades isnt a criticism that is fair imo.

 

Oh and with the domi, tatar, drouin, etc... trades its not like they are all small either.  

 

[IN THE HEARTS OF MEN]

48 minutes ago, Commandant said:

Bergevin has made more trades than any other GM in the last two years.  Being afraid to make trades isnt a criticism that is fair imo.

 

Oh and with the domi, tatar, drouin, etc... trades its not like they are all small either.  

 

Exactly

 

MB is arguably the most active GM on all fronts. One could also say hes one if the stingiest as well.

 

[Metallica]

51 minutes ago, Commandant said:

Bergevin has made more trades than any other GM in the last two years.  Being afraid to make trades isnt a criticism that is fair imo.

 

Oh and with the domi, tatar, drouin, etc... trades its not like they are all small either.  

 

Its not being afraid to make a trade, its being afraid to make a trade for a top player because he doesn't want to give up top prospects to get those type of players.

Oh and as good as Domi has been he got lucky on that trade. Also Tatar was a throw in he didn't even want him so don't give him full credit on that.

[Trizzak]

1 hour ago, Metallica said:

Its not being afraid to make a trade, its being afraid to make a trade for a top player because he doesn't want to give up top prospects to get those type of players.

Oh and as good as Domi has been he got lucky on that trade. Also Tatar was a throw in he didn't even want him so don't give him full credit on that.

So his successes are accidents, and his lack of interest in trading away picks and prospects during an ownership mandated retool/rebuild is a flaw...

 

Solid argument here, guys, I don't know why we ever moved on with our lives.

[DON]

1 hour ago, Metallica said:

Its not being afraid to make a trade, its being afraid to make a t

rade for a top player because he doesn't want to give up top prospects to

Sergachev wasnt a top prospect?

Offering up numerous draft picks for Oho?

If you know any actual specifics to back up what you say, i would like to hear them. Exactly what deals for top prospects has Bergevin been afraid of?

 

[Metallica]

5 minutes ago, Trizzak said:

So his successes are accidents, and his lack of interest in trading away picks and prospects during an ownership mandated retool/rebuild is a flaw...

 

Solid argument here, guys, I don't know why we ever moved on with our lives.

Wow just wow.  

 

I beat you you were one of those people that didn't like the Galchenyuk trade. I didn't like it base on the fact he gave up one problem for the same problem and didn't address anything in that trade. But it turned out in his favor,  but don't go on saying he knew what he was doing. He got  lucky.

 

The Tatar trade he just wanted Suzuki. So again didn't go out and say he knew what he was doing when he took Tatar.

 

And again since people don't seem to understand last time he traded a top prospect it was for Drouin. We all know how he got eaten alive for that trade and He hasn't been willing to trade a top prospect since.

[Metallica]

7 minutes ago, DON said:

Sergachev wasnt a top prospect?

Offering up numerous draft picks for Oho?

If you know any actual specifics to back up what you say, i would like to hear them. Exactly what deals for top prospects has Bergevin been afraid of?

 

Sergachev was our top offensive Defensemen in our prospect pool at the time, so yeah he was a top prospect.