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New players means new lines - What would you do?


Prime Minister Koivu
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12 minutes ago, Sir_Boagalott said:

 

 

I basically say the same lines as you, but not in your order.

 

Drouin - Suzuki - Anderson

Tatar - Danault - Gallagher

Toffoli - Kotkaniemi - Armia

Lehkonen - Evans - Byron

 

I'd probably swap KK with Danault, and I would also consider dropping Anderson to 3rd line and move the other RW up a line, because Anderson is more defensive and can kill penalties.

 

No clue why so many have put Danault as #1C - thats just nutbar.  If anything has been proven it is that Danault is not a #1C. 

 

 

At even strength, Danault is a #1 C, both as the best centre on the team in both points and possession numbers, and in his production compared to other top centres (his even strength numbers are top 15 in the NHL in nearly every category, and higher in possession)

 

He just isn't good on the PP.  It was asked for even strength lines, not PP units though.  I wouldn't put him on the PP. 

 

But playing him 18+ minutes against the other team's best line.  No issue with that whatsoever.  He's going to get his minutes cause the other team is going to play their top line a lot, and he is going to match against them.

 

Some games Suzuki might play more, some games Danault might play more.  The score of the game, and special teams  (how many pps vs pks ) will effect who gets the most minutes.

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I think that at even strength the Danault and Suzuki lines play about the same Number of minutes; special team TOI will be different

For the Habs to have success, the Suzuki line has to produce points at even strength. For that reason I would prefer to see Toffoli with them instead of Anderson 

 

The Kotkaniemi line is the biggest question mark for me. I would not put Toffoli with KK because of the risk that KK may drag down Toffoli or that the line plays less minutes.

I would prefer a third line built around Kotkaniemi-Anderson

 

Also, when healthy, Byron has

scored more often than all remaining players. If he is healthy, he may be a better fit with KK.

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Opening night looks like this for me..

 

Drouin - Suzuki - Anderson

Tatar - Danault - Gallagher

Toffoli - KK - Armia

Lehkonen - Evans - Byron

 

Chiarot - Weber

Edmunson - Petry

Romanov/Kulak - Juulsen/Fleury

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3 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

I would prefer to see Toffoli with them instead of Anderson 

 

Also, when healthy, Byron has

scored more often than all remaining players. If he is healthy, he may be a better fit with KK.

 

Ya, Toffli might be a better fit not being on the 3rd line.  I'm honestly not sure how good he is defensively, but I know Anderson is decent at checking, killing penalties, etc.

 

I totally agree about Byron, which is funny because a lot of people seem to rag on him and want to get rid of him.  For me, Byron is 1 of the players that I would not consider getting rid of at all.  Byron is decent defensively and he definitely scorers a lot for the limited ice time that he gets - which is rare - so I'd keep him for that reason. 

 

Armia was similar when he was with the Jets.  ex: 12 g playing 8 mins/game.  I tend to believe in the right situation that Armia might be able to get 30 g if he plays 24 mins/game.  i.e. triple his TOI and triple his output.  I almost think that Byron could potentially do the same, but he would have to be on right team to get 30 g - which isnt the Habs.  ex: if Byron was with Pitts and played 24+ mins/game with Crosby or Malkin he could probably get 30 g or match Domi's or Anderson's career highs in the high 20's. 

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1 hour ago, Sir_Boagalott said:

 

 

I basically say the same lines as you, but not in your order.

 

Drouin - Suzuki - Anderson

Tatar - Danault - Gallagher

Toffoli - Kotkaniemi - Armia

Lehkonen - Evans - Byron

 

I'd probably swap KK with Danault, and I would also consider dropping Anderson to 3rd line and move the other RW up a line, because Anderson is more defensive and can kill penalties.

 

No clue why so many have put Danault as #1C - thats just nutbar.  If anything has been proven it is that Danault is not a #1C. 

 

I don’t think the order the first three lines are arranged matters.  I do agree that if Suzuki and KK show they are ready to take the next step like the did this summer, they should have better players playing with them who can finish.

 

I like the Suzuki line, but would rather have KK playing with Gallagher and Taffoli.  Have Tatar and Armia with Danault.  If Anderson shows he can’t back to his form from 2 years ago, you move him with Danault.

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1 hour ago, Commandant said:

 

At even strength, Danault is a #1 C, both as the best centre on the team in both points and possession numbers, and in his production compared to other top centres (his even strength numbers are top 15 in the NHL in nearly every category, and higher in possession)

 

He just isn't good on the PP.  It was asked for even strength lines, not PP units though.  I wouldn't put him on the PP. 

 

But playing him 18+ minutes against the other team's best line.  No issue with that whatsoever.  He's going to get his minutes cause the other team is going to play their top line a lot, and he is going to match against them.

 

Some games Suzuki might play more, some games Danault might play more.  The score of the game, and special teams  (how many pps vs pks ) will effect who gets the most minutes.

So if Suzuki comes in and shows he is clearly better than Danault,  you’d still put Danault ahead of him??  If KK takes a big step, you still keep him behind Danault?? I want our best players playing with guys who can finish.

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1 hour ago, Link67 said:

Opening night looks like this for me..

 

Drouin - Suzuki - Anderson

Tatar - Danault - Gallagher

Toffoli - KK - Armia

Lehkonen - Evans - Byron

 

Chiarot - Weber

Edmunson - Petry

Romanov/Kulak - Juulsen/Fleury

Id say that you can go into training camp with that, but than you see if Suzuki and/or KK should be higher up in the pecking order.

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50 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

I don’t think the order the first three lines are arranged matters.  I do agree that if Suzuki and KK show they are ready to take the next step like the did this summer, they should have better players playing with them who can finish.

 

I like the Suzuki line, but would rather have KK playing with Gallagher and Taffoli.  Have Tatar and Armia with Danault.  If Anderson shows he can’t back to his form from 2 years ago, you move him with Danault.

 

You're right that the order doesnt totally matter, the point is, and we are agreement that the top C's should play with higher scoring wingers.  However, I would probably wouldn't play Tatar and especially Gally with Suzuki or KK.  Both of them could be gone so it could be pointless putting them on the youngsters lines.  Sure, at some point they'll be out at same time and if that works out really good then keep them together, but I wouldn't plan to do that. 

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3 hours ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:

Too many people have Armia with Kotkaniemi and I don't want that line held back by him and I would indeed prefer Byron there instead.

 

Maybe Fanpuck is right and Armia is a 4th liner?

 

 

I don’t prefer that pair either, unless Armia starts showing he has got more finish. Nothing more frustrating than seeing a guy perfectly fed and he couldn’t score on a open net.

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23 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

This continues to be my question with Toffoli. If he can play LW, it's huge for this team. If he can't, then we continue to have an unbalanced roster with a weak left side. God forbid the well-paid "experts" could shed any light on this crucial question.

We can sign right hander Kovalchuk for the left wing🙂

 

 

Drouin-Suzuki-Gallagher

Tatar-Danault-Toffoli

Byron-Kotkaniemi-Anderson

Lehkonen-Poehling-Armia

 

Chariot-Weber

Edmunson-Petry

Romanov-Fleury

 

Kulak-Mete

 

Price

Allen

 

 

 

 

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Armia was on pace last year for roughly a 20/20 season. His playoff pace was the same. Seems quite reasonable for third liner production. I'd say he may be able to improve on those numbers playing with Kotkaniemi for a full season.

 

Drouin-Suzuki-Armia was a solid line, and I didn't feel as though Armia held anyone back. It's nice to have a sudden influx of right handed shots

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44 minutes ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

...

Edmunson-Petry

Romanov-Fleury

 

Kulak-Mete...

 

Don't think they are going to trust Romanov's development to a player with 41 games of NHL experience ... plus Romanov may well be more comfortable on the right-side ... expect Edmundson to mentor Romanov, at least to start ... Kulak gets to stay with Petry, at least to start ... once Romanov shows he is comfortable in the NHL then I like your pairings ... I am a fan of Fleury (although Juulsen may leap frog him if things go well for Noah)

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36 minutes ago, huzer said:

Armia was on pace last year for roughly a 20/20 season. His playoff pace was the same. Seems quite reasonable for third liner production. I'd say he may be able to improve on those numbers playing with Kotkaniemi for a full season.

 

Drouin-Suzuki-Armia was a solid line, and I didn't feel as though Armia held anyone back. It's nice to have a sudden influx of right handed shots

Agree ... especially for a full season with an improved KK

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27 minutes ago, huzer said:

Armia was on pace last year for roughly a 20/20 season. His playoff pace was the same. Seems quite reasonable for third liner production. I'd say he may be able to improve on those numbers playing with Kotkaniemi for a full season.

 

Drouin-Suzuki-Armia was a solid line, and I didn't feel as though Armia held anyone back. It's nice to have a sudden influx of right handed shots

 

I think its silly to suggest Armia is a 4th liner.  He got 12 g playing 4th line with 8 mins/game with Jets.  I'm sure the Jets didnt want to get rid of him, they lost him because of the cap and they had other guys they preferred to keep so they had to dump him.  I honestly think he could get 25-30 goals. 

 

Also, as a general rule, I wouldnt play Toffoli with Anderson.  I'm not suggesting they would be bad together, its that it likely wouldnt be best for the team.  They both seem to be decent at shooting from far and in close, and scoring.  Think of last 2 seasons and how many times the Habs had prolonged pressure for 30-90 secs in the other teams zone and had 5+ shots but failed to score.  In those situations I believe Toffoli and Anderson would score, so I'd spread them out on different lines.

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13 hours ago, Sir_Boagalott said:

I basically say the same lines as you, but not in your order ...

 

Think we need to get away from the idea of defined/designated 1st, 2nd, 3rd lines ... Habs have three line scoring depth (hopefully) ... more like three second lines on a very good team ... 5-on-5 TOI will vary game to game

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45 minutes ago, Sir_Boagalott said:

 

I think its silly to suggest Armia is a 4th liner.  He got 12 g playing 4th line with 8 mins/game with Jets.  I'm sure the Jets didnt want to get rid of him, they lost him because of the cap and they had other guys they preferred to keep so they had to dump him.  I honestly think he could get 25-30 goals. 

 

Also, as a general rule, I wouldnt play Toffoli with Anderson.  I'm not suggesting they would be bad together, its that it likely wouldnt be best for the team.  They both seem to be decent at shooting from far and in close, and scoring.  Think of last 2 seasons and how many times the Habs had prolonged pressure for 30-90 secs in the other teams zone and had 5+ shots but failed to score.  In those situations I believe Toffoli and Anderson would score, so I'd spread them out on different lines.

Agree on Armia ... and the Toffolli/Anderson point is well worth considering ... another reason for keeping them apart is that in what is likely to be a condensed schedule (maybe even reduced) it is important to get off to a good start ... playing the newbies together risks that line taking longer to mesh ... Suzuki/Drouin and KK/Armia hopefully will carry over the chemistry that seemed to be there in the Tournament ... and I expect someone will have to put a gun to CJ's head to break up TT-PD-BG

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I like X-CK-X's forward lines :clap:

 

The thing with Armia is his lack of finish drives me nuts - it is similar to Lehkonen's lack of finish and that drives me nuts too. Both players show skill and the fact that they both get so many scoring chances is proof of their skill and hockey IQ to get into those positions to begin with but they just can't finish!

 

I honestly think Kotkaniemi may be a late blooming beast that needs to be used in a certain way - think of John Leclair and what he was with the Habs vs what he became in Philly. I want KK to have great wingers and Armia is not that.

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6 minutes ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:

I like X-CK-X's forward lines :clap:

 

The thing with Armia is his lack of finish drives me nuts - it is similar to Lehkonen's lack of finish and that drives me nuts too. Both players show skill and the fact that they both get so many scoring chances is proof of their skill and hockey IQ to get into those positions to begin with but they just can't finish!

 

Ironically that was not how he was seen before he was drafted:

Quote

Armia is that guy who wants the puck on his stick. And when it’s on his stick, he utilizes good puck protection skills to keep it there until he’s ready to either pass the puck (which is an underrated part of his game) or deploy one of his dazzling array of shots – especially his lethal wrist shot.

 

https://thehockeywriters.com/the-next-ones-joel-armia/

 

Anyway, looking at our forwards' shooting percentages for the past season (which doesn't consider shooting wide, of course), the top five forwards, and only ones over 10% are:

  • Byron 13.8%
  • Drouin 13.7%
  • Tatar 13.6%
  • Kotkaniemi 10.9%
  • Armia 10.3%

Most of the forwards are in in the 9% range. The only regulars (20+ games) under 9%:

  • Cousins 8.6%
  • Weise 6.7%
  • Thompson 6.5%
  • Poehling 3.9%

The big difference between Gallagher (22 goals) and Armia (16 goals)? Gallagher took almost 50% more shots. Maybe Armia needs to shoot more?

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1 hour ago, tomh009 said:

... The big difference between Gallagher (22 goals) and Armia (16 goals)? Gallagher took almost 50% more shots. Maybe Armia needs to shoot more?

If he is paired with and hopefully improved (compared to last regular season) KK may just get him more shots without any conscious effort by Joel

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6 hours ago, GHT120 said:

Agree on Armia ... and the Toffolli/Anderson point is well worth considering ... another reason for keeping them apart is that in what is likely to be a condensed schedule (maybe even reduced) it is important to get off to a good start ... playing the newbies together risks that line taking longer to mesh ... Suzuki/Drouin and KK/Armia hopefully will carry over the chemistry that seemed to be there in the Tournament ... and I expect someone will have to put a gun to CJ's head to break up TT-PD-BG

Armia played with Suzuki and Drouin... not Kk

 

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3 minutes ago, IN THE HEARTS OF MEN said:

Armia played with Suzuki and Drouin... not Kk

 

Apologies ... memory failure ... but much seemed to be made of how Drouin and Suzuki meshed, not really the Armia factor ... if not from the tournament at least KK and Armia have prior experience playing together, which fits with my thought to not play the newbies together ... of course CJ could shock us a break up TT-PD-BG and then all bets are off

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5 minutes ago, IN THE HEARTS OF MEN said:

Tatar Danault Gallagher

Drouin Suzuki Armia

Anderson KK Toffoli

Byron Evans Chairot Weber

Kulak petry

Romanov Edmundson

 

Price

Allen

 

The Fabulous Finns are Finished?

😉

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3 hours ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:

I like X-CK-X's forward lines :clap:

 

The thing with Armia is his lack of finish drives me nuts - it is similar to Lehkonen's lack of finish and that drives me nuts too. Both players show skill and the fact that they both get so many scoring chances is proof of their skill and hockey IQ to get into those positions to begin with but they just can't finish!

 

I honestly think Kotkaniemi may be a late blooming beast that needs to be used in a certain way - think of John Leclair and what he was with the Habs vs what he became in Philly. I want KK to have great wingers and Armia is not that.

Late bloomer? He’s what 20, 21?

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