IN THE HEARTS OF MEN Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 7 hours ago, Neech said: Ridiculous that they say the head contact was 'unavoidable'. Dube clearly extended his arms into KK's head prior to making body contact. i agree on this one... he didn't even lay the body. It was basically gloves to face. if this was not one of our beloved, we wouldn't be thinking twice about it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Minister Koivu Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 10 hours ago, GHT120 said: I don't believe it does ... IMO just escalates things into tit-for-tat attacks on each others players ... but I suspect we will never agree on that so lets agree to disagree Well the National Headshot League clearly won’t protect us. Hopefully the other NHL teams will be nice to us Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 12 hours ago, Prime Minister Koivu said: It prevents further attempts to injure thereby preventing missed games due to injury like Armia People have done the numbers. Fighting or having an enforcer doesnt prevent future injuries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 12 hours ago, IN THE HEARTS OF MEN said: i agree on this one... he didn't even lay the body. It was basically gloves to face. if this was not one of our beloved, we wouldn't be thinking twice about it... Looked more like forearms to the face to me. Abetted by a definite upward thrust to better make contact with the head. The only thing you can say in Dube’s favour is that he didn’t accelerate full-speed into the hit. He could have taken an extra step and didn’t. I don’t really get the army of people that rushes in to defend hits to the head every time they happen. There are endless rationalizations - “well, the guy had his head down...well, it would have been tough for the perpetrator to pull up...gosh, this was a high-contact area of the ice...well, he didn’t really mean to...hmmm, it was a little high, but...” Blah blah blah blah. Meanwhile, some young man is lying on the ice with a potentially life-altering concussion. This is a league where if you accidentally flip the puck into the stands, or if your stick accidentally clips a guy and draws blood, you are immediately penalized. No questions asked. But if you bash a guy’s skull into powder, oh wow, then suddenly everything gets super complicated. The Wise and the Good furrow their brows, cluck their tongues, pondering in their infinite wisdom the intricacies of the matter as though it’s the Trolley Problem from Philosophy 101. How about this: you make primary contact to the head, you’re guilty. The end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Minister Koivu Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 I’m not advocating for an enforcer. Im asking our players to defend each other because the league will not. A blatant attempt to injure such as KK or Armia should be met with immediate repercussions. Attacking Gallagher over and over should be met with repercussions. Why on earth would any team not head hunt or try and destroy our players? The league clearly doesn’t care about player safety and Habs players won’t do anything about it. Suzuki flying and scoring in the playoffs? Simple just give him a concussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 In the 80s maybe that worked. In a league where you make millions in the NHL and 70k to 150k or so on an AHL deal (yes some vets make more, but im talking the average player)... the threat of being punched by a Weber or a Chiarot or even a Tom Wilson is just not a deterrent. Guys like Dube are gonna do what they do cause if they dont finish their checks, the coach will put them in the AHL and call up someone who will and thats a serious financial hit. That motivation is worth getting into a fight over. So it just doesnt work as deterrance. The NHL has to penalize the hits (so coaches wont want their players to finish their checks) and suspend players (so players wont want to lose paycheques) or this wont change. No amount of face punching deters future reckless hits. And i call this reckless cause i dont think he was intending to injure the player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHT120 Posted February 1, 2021 Author Share Posted February 1, 2021 3 minutes ago, Commandant said: In the 80s maybe that worked. In a league where you make millions in the NHL and 70k to 150k or so on an AHL deal (yes some vets make more, but im talking the average player)... the threat of being punched by a Weber or a Chiarot or even a Tom Wilson is just not a deterrent. Guys like Dube are gonna do what they do cause if they dont finish their checks, the coach will put them in the AHL and call up someone who will and thats a serious financial hit. That motivation is worth getting into a fight over. So it just doesnt work as deterrance. The NHL has to penalize the hits (so coaches wont want their players to finish their checks) and suspend players (so players wont want to lose paycheques) or this wont change. No amount of face punching deters future reckless hits. And i call this reckless cause i dont think he was intending to injure the player. Other than the term "finish their checks" I totally agree ... that term just bugs me because it is the excuse used for every late hit that injures someone ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Minister Koivu Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 46 minutes ago, Commandant said: In the 80s maybe that worked. In a league where you make millions in the NHL and 70k to 150k or so on an AHL deal (yes some vets make more, but im talking the average player)... the threat of being punched by a Weber or a Chiarot or even a Tom Wilson is just not a deterrent. Guys like Dube are gonna do what they do cause if they dont finish their checks, the coach will put them in the AHL and call up someone who will and thats a serious financial hit. That motivation is worth getting into a fight over. So it just doesnt work as deterrance. The NHL has to penalize the hits (so coaches wont want their players to finish their checks) and suspend players (so players wont want to lose paycheques) or this wont change. No amount of face punching deters future reckless hits. And i call this reckless cause i dont think he was intending to injure the player. Fair point. I am concerned that by game 7 of the season two of our players have been impacted by reckless or intentional hits to the head. The league has checked out and refused to do anything about it. Where does it end? Who is next? It will likely end when McDavid gets concussion and is screwed. Then the league might take it seriously. Until then what can we do? Just accept it and hope Suzuki isn’t next? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 24 minutes ago, Prime Minister Koivu said: Fair point. I am concerned that by game 7 of the season two of our players have been impacted by reckless or intentional hits to the head. The league has checked out and refused to do anything about it. Where does it end? Who is next? It will likely end when McDavid gets concussion and is screwed. Then the league might take it seriously. Until then what can we do? Just accept it and hope Suzuki isn’t next? Crosby lost two seasons to concussions, and we're still here, watching as guys get their brains bashed out. So I'm not even sure an attack on McDavid would change anything. A really serious threat of legal liability might be another story. All these idiots care about is money, after all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Minister Koivu Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 5 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said: Crosby lost two seasons to concussions, and we're still here, watching as guys get their brains bashed out. So I'm not even sure an attack on McDavid would change anything. A really serious threat of legal liability might be another story. All these idiots care about is money, after all. I forgot all about Crosby and that nearly ruined his career. Where is NHL player safety in all of this? Idk but doing nothing does not seem tenable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHT120 Posted February 1, 2021 Author Share Posted February 1, 2021 6 minutes ago, Prime Minister Koivu said: I forgot all about Crosby and that nearly ruined his career. Where is NHL player safety in all of this? Idk but doing nothing does not seem tenable The concussion lawsuit is settled ... no reason to pretend they care? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 On 1/30/2021 at 10:50 AM, GHT120 said: I was unaware of any tradition ... was surprised there was no thread yet and had the goaltending info to post before going out ... of course I do feel a weird sensation on my left foot ... hoping it is tugging Sorry, just so you dont forget...that loss blame you still own! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHT120 Posted February 1, 2021 Author Share Posted February 1, 2021 5 minutes ago, DON said: Sorry, just so you dont forget...that loss blame you still own! Can you educate me as to the tradition? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 Just now, GHT120 said: Can you educate me as to the tradition? Sorry, is simply the poster for a winning GDT, continues doing the game day threads until has a loss. thats all I did same thing a while ago by accident Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHT120 Posted February 1, 2021 Author Share Posted February 1, 2021 7 minutes ago, DON said: Sorry, is simply the poster for a winning GDT, continues doing the game day threads until has a loss. thats all I did same thing a while ago by accident Thanks There also seems to a common first post graphic with the teams and the lineups ... where does that come from? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfredoh2009 Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 7 minutes ago, GHT120 said: Thanks There also seems to a common first post graphic with the teams and the lineups ... where does that come from? I think each poster that starts the GDT has its own style/template. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 3 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said: I think each poster that starts the GDT has its own style/template. Yeah, let's keep this tradition "light." I know that when I do 'em, it's a pretty minimal endeavour. That said, you could just copy and paste the most recent version to use as a template, and tweak the relevant info accordingly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHT120 Posted February 1, 2021 Author Share Posted February 1, 2021 17 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said: I think each poster that starts the GDT has its own style/template. Thanks ... thought there might be a website they were sourcing ... if not, thanks to them for the creative effort Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurdBurglar Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 2 hours ago, Commandant said: In the 80s maybe that worked. In a league where you make millions in the NHL and 70k to 150k or so on an AHL deal (yes some vets make more, but im talking the average player)... the threat of being punched by a Weber or a Chiarot or even a Tom Wilson is just not a deterrent. Guys like Dube are gonna do what they do cause if they dont finish their checks, the coach will put them in the AHL and call up someone who will and thats a serious financial hit. That motivation is worth getting into a fight over. So it just doesnt work as deterrance. The NHL has to penalize the hits (so coaches wont want their players to finish their checks) and suspend players (so players wont want to lose paycheques) or this wont change. No amount of face punching deters future reckless hits. And i call this reckless cause i dont think he was intending to injure the player. It’s a different game than it was in the 80s as well with the NHL trying to enforce the rule of law, really poorly, and not the players. Repeat offender and intent to injure cracks down on retaliation more than the inciting incident. In 80’s hockey, Chiarot could of tossed his glove off and wailed on Dube with the intent of breaking his face and then played after his 5 minute penalty. Dube would of learned if I wanna hit like that, it’s gonna hurt, maybe even lost a couple games with facial injuries. With the rule changes, if a player is notorious for standing up for his teammates, he’s a repeat offender, which only comes into play because of the unwilling participant rule. Now coupled with intent to injure, that sequence turns from a 5 minute fighting major to each player, into a multi-game suspension for Chiarot and name put on the repeat offender list. I've said it before and I’ll say it again, if they wanted hits like these out of the game, increase suspensions, change the language to in control over that action not intent to injure, and stop looking at the result instead of looking at the action. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHT120 Posted February 1, 2021 Author Share Posted February 1, 2021 9 minutes ago, TurdBurglar said: ... I've said it before and I’ll say it again, if they wanted hits like these out of the game, increase suspensions, change the language to in control over that action not intent to injure, and stop looking at the result instead of looking at the action. That is the key ... I don't believe they REALLY want those hits out of the game ... except perhaps those against superstars, but on other side of the coin they fear they don't want to have to give a star doing it a lengthy suspension Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 6 minutes ago, TurdBurglar said: It’s a different game than it was in the 80s as well with the NHL trying to enforce the rule of law, Is entertainment industry and rules are made by owners with that in mind. Every other sports league in world immediately ejects, fines, suspends players who fight. But, owners know a large % of NHL fans are old school and love seeing fights, so they allow it for entertainment purposes. Reffing or discipline seems is managed by owners to minimize harm to entertainment value, while keeping public outrage in check. Like telling refs to put whistle in back pocket in playoffs and "let em play", which ends up with a different game than reg season and confusion for both players/refs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHT120 Posted February 1, 2021 Author Share Posted February 1, 2021 2 minutes ago, DON said: Is entertainment industry and rules are made by owners with that in mind. Every other sports league in world immediately ejects, fines, suspends players who fight. But, owners know a large % of NHL fans are old school and love seeing fights, so they allow it for entertainment purposes. Reffing or discipline seems is managed by owners to minimize harm to entertainment value, while keeping public outrage in check. Like telling refs to put whistle in back pocket in playoffs and "let em play", which ends up with a different game than reg season and confusion for both players/refs. And when someone like McDavid/Draisaitl/etc. are levelled and put on LTIR they will feign outrage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 The thing is, I don't think fans really like seeing hits to the head. Don't get me wrong, people love the hitting and physicality of the sport. But who really wants to see a player getting his head smashed in? Is that what fans really pay to see? There is a certain fear that if you legislate out head shots, players will stop taking the body for fear of suspension. This seems dubious to me. There are strong incentives to bring physical play to the table, and players will adjust. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurdBurglar Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 18 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said: The thing is, I don't think fans really like seeing hits to the head. Don't get me wrong, people love the hitting and physicality of the sport. But who really wants to see a player getting his head smashed in? Is that what fans really pay to see? There is a certain fear that if you legislate out head shots, players will stop taking the body for fear of suspension. This seems dubious to me. There are strong incentives to bring physical play to the table, and players will adjust. I completely agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 If the NFL can keep tackling in the game while getting out the hits to the head, why can't the NHL? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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