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2021 NHL Offseason


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2 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

If he becomes an effective #2C, then sure. 

 

 

Production from centers in last 3 years, show that Kotkaniemi seems to have improved hos FO% and also has shown that he can produce at least 25 point a season with cement-handed wings and probably more with scoring wingers:

 

Name 2018-2019 2019-2021 2020-2021
Danault 12g41a53p 55FO% 13g34a47p 54.5FO% 5g19a24p 52.5FO%
Suzuki N/A 13g28a41p 46.3FO% 15g26a41p 44.0FO%
Kotkaniemi 11g23a24p 45.7% 6g2a8p 42.8FO% 5g15a20p 47.9FO%
Evans N/A 3g1a3p 51.8FO% 3g10a13p 50.1FO%
Cousins N/A 9g13a22p 37.8% N/A
Shaw 19g28a47p 47.1FO% N/A N/A
Thompson 1g6a7p 55.1FO% N/A N/A
Staal N/A N/A 2g1a3p 50.8%

 

Not an ideal line-up but the centers are probaly one season away from the level we expect from them

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7 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

25 points is garbage from a 2nd-line C.

 

more like compost... enables others to bloom ;)

 

There are no centres available at this moment. I have posted options out there. KK is still playing at a 3C level but may find another gear and breakout this season like Suzuki did last season.

Edited by alfredoh2009
see how I turned that around! he he, I feel so smart!
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48 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

 

more like compost... enables others to bloom ;)

 

There are no centres available at this moment. I have posted options out there. KK is still playing at a 3C level but may find another gear and breakout this season like Suzuki did last season.

"may" is fine if you are in a rebuild ... but 10 of the Habs current NHL 13 forwards are 25 or older ... 7 are 28 or older ... 5 of the current expected top 6 on defence are 28 or older ... 4 are 30 or older ... the goaltenders are 34 and 31 .....  this this is not a rebuilding team and should not be entering the season with unproven players at the 1C and 2C ... it seriously risks wasting a year of most of the team ... Suzuki was 38th in PPG last season, 89th in p/60, 102nd in G/60 ... this is not to disparage Suzuki, I think he will become a legit 1C over the next 2 seasons, but just to show that he is not YET a proven 1C ... IMO MB's failure to ensure the Habs have a legit 1C or 2C to support the "kids" reflects very poor "GMing", especially after going all-cap-in everywhere else.

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1 hour ago, alfredoh2009 said:

 

more like compost... enables others to bloom ;)

 

There are no centres available at this moment. I have posted options out there. KK is still playing at a 3C level but may find another gear and breakout this season like Suzuki did last season.

 

That’s exactly what I mean when I say this is cross-your-fingers stuff. We’re crossing our fingers that KK will take a leap forward after two very mediocre seasons. And we’re also crossing our fingers that Evans is ready for full-time 3rd-line C duty. Neither player has served in this role for anything like a full season before. That’s too many question marks to have at a crucial position. Any team whose success depends on everything going right is in big trouble.

 

 

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42 minutes ago, GHT120 said:

IMO MB's failure to ensure the Habs have a legit 1C or 2C to support the "kids" reflects very poor "GMing", especially after going all-cap-in everywhere else.

By my math, if Bergevin had signed Danault, he would not have been able to pick up Hoffman, even with Weber's injury. The Habs are something like $6M below cap (assuming Weber on LTIR) but Kotkaniemi will probably pick up roughly half of that, depending on the length of his contract. And you don't get Danault (or another 1C) for $3M AAV.

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19 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

That’s exactly what I mean when I say this is cross-your-fingers stuff. We’re crossing our fingers that KK will take a leap forward after two very mediocre seasons. And we’re also crossing our fingers that Evans is ready for full-time 3rd-line C duty. Neither player has served in this role for anything like a full season before. That’s too many question marks to have at a crucial position. Any team whose success depends on everything going right is in big trouble.

 

 

 

Absolutely we are crossing our fingers that KK develops and Evans is ready for a bigger role.  I guess the other alternative was paying Danault 5.5M/year which would have been too much and handcuffed the Habs in other areas.  I am OK with crossing my fingers as the alternative is paying too much for someone else. 

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4 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

 

Absolutely we are crossing our fingers that KK develops and Evans is ready for a bigger role.  I guess the other alternative was paying Danault 5.5M/year which would have been too much and handcuffed the Habs in other areas.  I am OK with crossing my fingers as the alternative is paying too much for someone else. 

 

Well, there is a difference between attacking Bergevin for not re-signing Danault, and observing that our current C configuration is wing-and-a-prayer stuff.

 

It is too early to attack Bergevin in any case. But by the same token, this is a GM who, prior to the last couple of seasons, had a long-standing pattern of leaving gaping roster holes unfilled. If the Suzuki/KK/Evans configuration bombs, which is quite possible, make all the excuses you want, it's still gonna be on him.

 

1 hour ago, GHT120 said:

"may" is fine if you are in a rebuild ... but 10 of the Habs current NHL 13 forwards are 25 or older ... 7 are 28 or older ... 5 of the current expected top 6 on defence are 28 or older ... 4 are 30 or older ... the goaltenders are 34 and 31 .....  this this is not a rebuilding team and should not be entering the season with unproven players at the 1C and 2C ... it seriously risks wasting a year of most of the team ... Suzuki was 38th in PPG last season, 89th in p/60, 102nd in G/60 ... this is not to disparage Suzuki, I think he will become a legit 1C over the next 2 seasons, but just to show that he is not YET a proven 1C ... IMO MB's failure to ensure the Habs have a legit 1C or 2C to support the "kids" reflects very poor "GMing", especially after going all-cap-in everywhere else.

 

Too little noted in the rush to fantasize about everything miraculously working out at C is the fact that the current configuration is also setting Nick Suzuki up to fail. Opponents are going to game plan around shutting him down, and unless the players involved take a leap forward, KK/Evans/Spare Part are not going to provide any secondary offensive threat that they need to worry about. Poor Nick, he is going to be carrying the can entirely alone at C.

 

The subtext of this debate about C is what constitutes reasonable expectations for the fans this year. Are we happy to see a bubble team miss the playoffs? Or do we expect a solid playoff team? To my mind, a trip to the Finals does not really excuse burning another season; I want to see this 'built for the playoffs' squad make it back to the playoffs. And the more I've considered our current lineup, the more of a longshot I think that is.

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26 minutes ago, tomh009 said:

By my math, if Bergevin had signed Danault, he would not have been able to pick up Hoffman, even with Weber's injury. The Habs are something like $6M below cap (assuming Weber on LTIR) but Kotkaniemi will probably pick up roughly half of that, depending on the length of his contract. And you don't get Danault (or another 1C) for $3M AAV.

no, the habs have oer $5M if KK signs at around $3M. They have room to get a 2C

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11 minutes ago, tomh009 said:

By my math, if Bergevin had signed Danault, he would not have been able to pick up Hoffman, even with Weber's injury. The Habs are something like $6M below cap (assuming Weber on LTIR) but Kotkaniemi will probably pick up roughly half of that, depending on the length of his contract. And you don't get Danault (or another 1C) for $3M AAV.

Wasn't advocating giving Danault the money he wanted ... but MB should have known Danault was unlikely to re-sign and aggressively pursued a legit top-two centre (free agency or trade, and should do so now ... for example, Vancouver ... Pettersson would be ideal but 'Nucks likely to match any offer sheet, unless it is so ridiculously high as to make it a bad contract for the Habs to offer ... but with Hughes and Pettersson to re-sign, the $10.664341M of free cap space may not be enough to get it done ... I would look at JT Miller ... I would offer Gallagher for Miller (likely have to take on Ferland, he didn't play last season so a LTIR acquisition) as the core of a deal ... milk 'Nucks for more picks/prospects if possible (with lesser pieces going back as needed) ... expect it is an unpopular proposal, but the one position the Habs have depth is on the wing and their gaping need is at centre, Miller has two more years on his deal ... Gallagher would be a hometown boy returning home, so potentially popular move in VanCity

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no one know that he didn't try.

 

MB's track record shows he is always on the phone, trying to improve the team. If there was a trade to be made, he would have made it.

But we also need to remember that he also is very disciplined with his salary cap. He was not going to re-sign Danault after PD declined the offer.

 

He will get the right deal done in due time

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5 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

The subtext of this debate about C is what constitutes reasonable expectations for the fans this year. Are we happy to see a bubble team miss the playoffs? Or do we expect a solid playoff team? To my mind, a trip to the Finals does not really excuse burning another season; I want to see this 'built for the playoffs' squad make it back to the playoffs. And the more I've considered our current lineup, the more of a longshot I think that is.

 

I also think it might be a bit of a longshot. Hard to replace a Weber and Danault and of course Perry will be missed.  I think the Habs may very well take a step backward this year.  I think that's the reality. 

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1 minute ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

 

I also think it might be a bit of a longshot. Hard to replace a Weber and Danault and of course Perry will be missed.  I think the Habs may very well take a step backward this year.  I think that's the reality. 

agreed

 

this is another learning year for the club. If they make the playoffs, it will be another learning to win playoff run.

 

sucks for Price and Petry, but it is what it is.

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1 minute ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

 

I also think it might be a bit of a longshot. Hard to replace a Weber and Danault and of course Perry will be missed.  I think the Habs may very well take a step backward this year.  I think that's the reality. 

 

A single step backward = missing the playoffs.

 

That sucks if you ask me. Especially since, as you noted, we are not a rebuilding team. All this will do is reinforce the narrative that 2021 was a fluke event and that the Habs are a synonym for perpetual mediocrity, a narrative which, between the Bubble and the Run of 21 we had finally began to corrode.

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3 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

no one know that he didn't try.

 

MB's track record shows he is always on the phone, trying to improve the team. If there was a trade to be made, he would have made it.

But we also need to remember that he also is very disciplined with his salary cap. He was not going to re-sign Danault after PD declined the offer.

 

He will get the right deal done in due time

Agree he wasn't going to re-sign PD, but habs have a huge hole to fill ... and the need will be more than an Eric Staal or Nate Thompson type player ... other GMs will have MB over a barrel for even a legit 3C, let alone better.

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2 minutes ago, GHT120 said:

Agree he wasn't going to re-sign PD, but habs have a huge hole to fill ... and the need will be more than an Eric Staal or Nate Thompson type player ... other GMs will have MB over a barrel for even a legit 3C, let alone better.

 

You are overrating PD.

 

A 50FO% center that can play well defensively and score 40 points we have in Suzuki, which replaces the need to a 1C.

A checking center with over 50FO% and excellent in shutting down other top lines (Lehkonne-Evans-Armia) we have if the Habs go that way.

 

Even better, a shutdown line that can provide secondary scoring in Toffoli-Evans-Gallagher would also replace PD's line

 

PD is not who needs to be replaced. we need a true 2C: either KK or someone else.

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17 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

 He was not going to re-sign Danault after PD declined the offer.

 

He will get the right deal done in due time

Agree, i think he knew Danault was not in 21-22 plan awhile ago.

Maybe is roll the marbles in October and see how the start to season goes before making any centre upgrade?

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19 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

A single step backward = missing the playoffs.

 

That sucks if you ask me. Especially since, as you noted, we are not a rebuilding team. All this will do is reinforce the narrative that 2021 was a fluke event and that the Habs are a synonym for perpetual mediocrity, a narrative which, between the Bubble and the Run of 21 we had finally began to corrode.

 

A single step backward most likely means missing the playoffs. I think MB has 2 choices;

 

1) Go with the kids, KK, Evans, Poehling, Romanov, Caulfield, Suzuki and hope they develop or continue to develop

2) Trade to fill any holes, likely means giving up top prospects, draft choices etc, and probably over paying if other teams think you are desperate

 

Personally I prefer option 1.  It is the biggest gamble but has the greatest upside long term. Option 2 likely has the greater chance of grabbing a playoff spot but at what cost?

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40 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

 

A single step backward most likely means missing the playoffs. I think MB has 2 choices;

 

1) Go with the kids, KK, Evans, Poehling, Romanov, Caulfield, Suzuki and hope they develop or continue to develop

2) Trade to fill any holes, likely means giving up top prospects, draft choices etc, and probably over paying if other teams think you are desperate

 

Personally I prefer option 1.  It is the biggest gamble but has the greatest upside long term. Option 2 likely has the greater chance of grabbing a playoff spot but at what cost?

 

Good post. I tend to agree, but I am still concerned about throwing Suzuki to the wolves.

 

I might feel better if we went out and got someone like Bozak on a short-term deal. Not a serious solution, obviously, but a patch-up piece offering some insulation for the triad of kids down the middle. I just don't see Paquette as more than a 4th-liner, although who knows, maybe MB sees a guy with more upside that he was able to show on a stacked TB team.

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18 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

Good post. I tend to agree, but I am still concerned about throwing Suzuki to the wolves.

 

I might feel better if we went out and got someone like Bozak on a short-term deal. Not a serious solution, obviously, but a patch-up piece offering some insulation for the triad of kids down the middle. I just don't see Paquette as more than a 4th-liner, although who knows, maybe MB sees a guy with more upside that he was able to show on a stacked TB team.

 

Agree, there will be pressure on Suzuki this year.  Also agree that Bozak on a short term might deal might make a lot of sense. 

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36 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

I just don't see Paquette as more than a 4th-liner, although who knows, maybe MB sees a guy with more upside that he was able to show on a stacked TB team.

It's hard to imagine him breaking out at 28 when he hasn't scored much since junior (27g+56a in 63 games for Blainville-Boisbriand in 2013).  His only full AHL year he did manage about 0.6 points/game but in the NHL he has rarely managed much better than 0.2 points/game. I think even Poehling is more likely to provide scoring than Paquette.

 

I do think we sink or swim with the kids at centre. They are the future, whether they are ready or not this year.

 

Beyond that, the big elephant is the room is which Carey Price we will see this season when he returns from surgery.

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2 hours ago, alfredoh2009 said:

You are overrating PD ...

Wasn't suggesting that the hole is PG ... the hole is a proven 2C who can win crucial faceoffs and play solid defence

2 hours ago, alfredoh2009 said:

... A 50FO% center that can play well defensively and score 40 points we have in Suzuki, which replaces the need to a 1C ...

40 points is a marginal 2C and a good 3C ... and given the lack of proven offence at centre I really wouldn't want to burden Suzuki with the defensive responsibilities as well.

 

2 hours ago, alfredoh2009 said:

... A checking center with over 50FO% and excellent in shutting down other top lines (Lehkonne-Evans-Armia) we have if the Habs go that way.

Even better, a shutdown line that can provide secondary scoring in Toffoli-Evans-Gallagher would also replace PD's line ...

Evans does not even have a full season of NHL experience (60 games total) and his per 82 game scoring is 22 points ... until proven otherwise, a reach as a shutdown centre, let alone one who provides secondary scoring.

 

2 hours ago, alfredoh2009 said:

... PD is not who needs to be replaced. we need a true 2C: either KK or someone else.

Agree ... habs need a legit 2C (although a legit 1C would IMO better support Suzuki's evolution ... albeit next to impossible to obtain) ... expecting it to be KK is IMO an admission that the team HOPES at best to challenge for a wildcard spot ... and when your best player is a 34 yr-old, oft-injured goaltender that is not a wise thing.

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18 minutes ago, GHT120 said:

 ... and when your best player is a 34 yr-old, oft-injured goaltender that is not a wise thing.
 

 

yeah, _ THAT_  bum!!! overrated, over the hill, over paid, over played, good for nothing, old timer. No wonder the Habs have never won anything 🙄

 

We should buy him out and play Primeau instead. At least the kid is cheap and has a french name

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