Tank Hard for Bedard (as heard on TSN690)

[alfredoh2009]

I have trouble figuring out what to cheer for and I do not want to stop watching games 

 

On the one had, like on previous “down” or “lost” seasons I used to pick a player to cheer for (Mete, Bournival, Reilly, Clague). This year, I am cheering for Kovacevic but it is not always sufficient to make things all rosie 

 

On the other hand, I am trying to bring up “tanking” points. And to be honest, I am not good at it. First time I try that

 

I do not mind when others disagree with post of either way. Most are just from the top of my mind and depend on how I feel, how what I am doing is going or how my health is.

 

I do not understand what you mean that the bullet points do not align with “the overall message”. The Habs message? the forums message? Your message?

I do. It have an overall message. I would not know how to plan one. I’m just a dude on a forum participating in the discussions and trying to contribute something instead of just reacting to others 

 

I agree with your last paragraph. I do not want the Habs to buyers neither but there are certainly a few transactions that could have been done to shell the team on it trajectory

[Commandant]

On another point, this is a discussion board. 

 

If you post an idea, some people will agree and some will disagree... thats what the board is for. 

 

If we all agreed with everyone else's ideas, this site would be boring.

[alfredoh2009]

2 hours ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

 

I don't think it's case of not knowing what you are saying, I think it's more a difference of opinion sometimes.  Do you want other posters to never reply to your posts because they are just for fun?

 

As I mentioned before, fan is short for fanatic so we take this business of building the Montreal Canadiens seriously. It's a bit of an obsession.  Perhaps that's not a healthy thing but it has been part of my DNA for a lot of years now, not likely to change anytime soon. 

 

My posts get challenged sometimes.  Sometimes it's because someone has a different opinion and sometimes it's because I didn't do my homework.  That's the way it works. 

I like replies, the whole point of posting on the forum is for those conversations.

I just fin it understand why some get so riled up which some of my posts. Even if I to respectfully answer and keep the conversation going. 
 

I try not to hide when my posts are wrong or when someone points out the errors I make.  I am probably not good at it 

 

in any case : Go Habs Go!

[huzer]

11 hours ago, alfredoh2009 said:

 

I do not understand what you mean that the bullet points do not align with “the overall message”. The Habs message? the forums message? Your message?

 

 

This:

 

I hate loosing but I have embraced the tank because Inwould like to see the Gabs win a cup. 
I would have liked some depth trades to relieve pressure from the few decent veterans and the young guns foot the following reasons:

 

Is your desire to tank, which given you are the author of the thread, seems to be your goal, unless it was meant tongue in cheek? Or is you goal to add depth to the roster? That's what I meant in that your message is contradictory. If you want to tank, why would you trade away assets to bolster the roster? If you want additional NHL depth, that indicates that you aren't going to trade a current NHLer to acquire said depth. Why would you trade draft picks and prospects for depth defenseman and bottom 6 forwards?

 

We can keep going in circles, but when your statements contradict each other, I can't pick which one to discuss. But summarizing, it isn't possible to say "I want the best draft pick possible, but I want to add players to the roster to improve the team." They are mutually exclusive goals. Pick one. You either want a better team this season, or you want the first overall pick. You can't have both. And yes, adding depth "to take pressure off, in the event of injuries, etc" is improving the roster. Adding depth indicates that you want the team to at least maintain, and you want to sacrifice assets to do it. 

 

Embracing the tank, then criticizing management for not making moves to bolster the roster? Again, pick one. You can't want both. Unless the goal is to just criticize management, in that case, you're doing a bang up job.

 

 

[alfredoh2009]

1 hour ago, huzer said:

 

This:

 

I hate loosing but I have embraced the tank because Inwould like to see the Gabs win a cup. 
I would have liked some depth trades to relieve pressure from the few decent veterans and the young guns foot the following reasons:

 

Is your desire to tank, which given you are the author of the thread, seems to be your goal, unless it was meant tongue in cheek? Or is you goal to add depth to the roster? That's what I meant in that your message is contradictory. If you want to tank, why would you trade away assets to bolster the roster? If you want additional NHL depth, that indicates that you aren't going to trade a current NHLer to acquire said depth. Why would you trade draft picks and prospects for depth defenseman and bottom 6 forwards?

 

We can keep going in circles, but when your statements contradict each other, I can't pick which one to discuss. But summarizing, it isn't possible to say "I want the best draft pick possible, but I want to add players to the roster to improve the team." They are mutually exclusive goals. Pick one. You either want a better team this season, or you want the first overall pick. You can't have both. And yes, adding depth "to take pressure off, in the event of injuries, etc" is improving the roster. Adding depth indicates that you want the team to at least maintain, and you want to sacrifice assets to do it. 

 

Embracing the tank, then criticizing management for not making moves to bolster the roster? Again, pick one. You can't want both. Unless the goal is to just criticize management, in that case, you're doing a bang up job.

 

 

 

this is where the misunderstanding may be, and I agree I am not making sense:

<<it isn't possible to say "I want the best draft pick possible, but I want to add players to the roster to improve the team.">>

I do want the best pick possible, but the same way we picked up Sopel,Mara, and Merril, Niku (bottom of the barrel additions) I would have liked to pick up minute eating depth players to insulate the players Habs need to develop.

 

Those players would not fare better than the ones we have, but would allow to send some to Laval and to get rid of trully-AHL-caliber-dead-weight

 

I have to up and read again what I wrote from the parking before heading home, but I think I said: "I would have" instead of criticizing management. I remember saying I wanted to wait for the press conference today to hear what they had to say.

 

I sometimes criticize Hugh-Gort, mostly out of frustration because I do not understand what they are doing. I am just too dense to get it; it seems to be cristal clear for others on this forum. But on what I wrote yesterday, I do not think I criticized them, but I'll take your word for it.

[Commandant]

Do you want them to just pick up players off waivers?  Players who are on waivers cause their NHL teams think they arent good enough for the NHL and want in the AHL?  Why are these hypothetical waiver claims (none of which you named, hence hypothetical) who their teams see as AHL players better than giving minutes to ylonen, richard, rhp, barron, or other habs AHL call ups?

 

How do you get rid of these players once the injuries are healed? Who is sitting in an ahl or nhl press box when everyone is healthy?

 

You are using cap space on these waiver claims.  And not all of them are for one year.  Are you comfortable with having these players on the books next year?

 

Are you comfortable using that cap space on roster fillers instead of using it to retain salary on a deadline deal (either on our player or as a third party on another trade) to gain assets.

 

What about the 50 contract limit.  Do yoh want these guys taking up spots which handcuffs you for future trades, college free agents, or next years signings (on players with multi year deals).

 

There is a lot to consider before you just make waiver claims or sign guys off the street.

[huzer]

They picked up Kovacevik from waivers, and resigned Wideman for cheap D. The equivalent players you listed were all acquired via trade, with the exception of Niku, who was signed after the Jets bought him out. 

 

On Oct 10, 2022, before the start of the season, the Habs had exactly $0 cap space available, and that was only with an active roster of 22 players. They couldn't have added anyone even if they wanted to.

 

Here is the comment where you are critical of roster decisions:

 

23 hours ago, alfredoh2009 said:

The lack of roster decisions in the first half of the year seems to have caught up the the Habs. Looks like a suffocation job, or taking by omission to improve the roster

[alfredoh2009]

34 minutes ago, huzer said:

They picked up Kovacevik from waivers, and resigned Wideman for cheap D. The equivalent players you listed were all acquired via trade, with the exception of Niku, who was signed after the Jets bought him out. 

 

On Oct 10, 2022, before the start of the season, the Habs had exactly $0 cap space available, and that was only with an active roster of 22 players. They couldn't have added anyone even if they wanted to.

 

Here is the comment where you are critical of roster decisions:

 

 

yes, frustration at work. That was me.

 

I thought that belonged on a tank for Bedard thread. There are other snarky comments from me before if you want to quote them to.

 

Not talking about you particularly, but in general, I do not understand why some get so riled up when I express my frustration. My opinion is not that important and my posts should not carry any weight beyond face value

I cannot retract the snarky comments or any other comments, since that is how I felt or what I thought at the time I posted.

again, if I aggravated anyone: I am sorry. If this happens every time: please add me to your ignore list:

   https://forums.habsworld.net/index.php?/ignore/

 

It is a very useful feature of this forum 👍

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

2 hours ago, Commandant said:

There is a lot to consider before you just make waiver claims or sign guys off the street.

 

Yes,  Hughes would like to have as much cap space as possible come the trade deadline so he has more flexibility.

[GHT120]

The imp in me was hoping for a trade announcement in the hour or two following the press conference just to "annoy" the media types.

[huzer]

57 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

Not talking about you particularly, but in general, I do not understand why some get so riled up when I express my frustration. My opinion is not that important and my posts should not carry any weight beyond face value

 

 

I don't ignore folks here. I don't want to post in an echo chamber. I feel in my posts, I'm fairly consistent in my content. I find it hard to track your thought process, specifically in terms of organizational management. I can never quite tell if you go against the consensus out of belief, or just argument's sake.

[GHT120]

5 minutes ago, huzer said:

I don't ignore folks here. I don't want to post in an echo chamber. I feel in my posts, I'm fairly consistent in my content. I find it hard to track your thought process, specifically in terms of organizational management. I can never quite tell if you go against the consensus out of belief, or just argument's sake.

 

In fairness ... alphredo has said he is by nature a "win now" guy who is trying to make the best of a bad situation and embrace getting the best picks possible for the rebuild.

[alfredoh2009]

56 minutes ago, GHT120 said:

In fairness ... alphredo has said he is by nature a "win now" guy who is trying to make the best of a bad situation and embrace getting the best picks possible for the rebuild.

yes, multiple times

[alfredoh2009]

1 hour ago, huzer said:

 

I don't ignore folks here. I don't want to post in an echo chamber. I feel in my posts, I'm fairly consistent in my content. I find it hard to track your thought process, specifically in terms of organizational management. I can never quite tell if you go against the consensus out of belief, or just argument's sake.

 

I usually do not ignore people on this forum neither, right now it is just one person and I tried over multiple treads and for weeks and weeks to try to find a middle ground.

 

I also try to reply to criticism and to won my errors. but I am not perfect

[DON]

With Matheson back, the tank takes a hit. 

How close to wildcard spot will Panthers get i wonder?

Buyer or Seller at deadline?

[tomh009]

2 minutes ago, DON said:

With Matheson back, the tank takes a hit.

Will it really be significant, compared to Guhle?

[DON]

1 minute ago, tomh009 said:

Will it really be significant, compared to Guhle?

Yes, compared to Guhle.

Grand scheme not significant, but Habs will play better with him dressed and playing 22+minutes/game...i think.

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

54 minutes ago, DON said:

With Matheson back, the tank takes a hit. 

How close to wildcard spot will Panthers get i wonder?

Buyer or Seller at deadline?

 

If Florida wins tomorrow night and I expect they will as they are playing much better right now then they will be 2 points out of a wildcard spot. I think that's pretty close. 

 

I don't expect them to be sellers at the deadline as they have nothing to tank for. 

[tomh009]

They have nothing to tank for, but they also have few assets they can trade. 2026 first?

 

Caps, Pens, Isles, Sabres, Wings all ahead of them by percentage, and a tough second-half schedule. They have their work cut out for them.

[DON]

14 hours ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

I don't expect them to be sellers at the deadline as they have nothing to tank for. 

Dead weight in expiring contracts like Gudas/Staal.

[Commandant]

Freidman seems to think that if they fall out of the playoff chase they will dump some players and try to get draft picks to replace some of the ones they traded away

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

3 minutes ago, DON said:

Dead weight in expiring contracts like Gudas/Staal.

 

The Staals are old and will get minimum return anyway. For Gudas it depends on whether they want to resign him as they will have the cap room next year. 

 

It depends on whether they are fighting for a playoff spot. If they are in the running they won't be sellers. 

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

6 hours ago, tomh009 said:

They have nothing to tank for, but they also have few assets they can trade. 2026 first?

 

Caps, Pens, Isles, Sabres, Wings all ahead of them by percentage, and a tough second-half schedule. They have their work cut out for them.

 

I cam almost guarantee you they won't trade another 1st.  Why would they?  They have so little chance of winning the cup this year. Zito would be vilified if he gave up another 1st. 

[Sir_Boagalott]

Oh no, the Habs have chances have significantly dropped.  This pic was before the game and the Habs had the 4th best %, but Flor won and passed the Sabers and Preds so the Habs currently have 0 chance with the Panthers pick.  

 

 

 

[alfredoh2009]

yes, here is another view from the NHL.com website, sorted by Goal Differential . I did put a green check mark besides the teams with the highest draft lottery odds. I also highlighted MTL and FLA.

 

BUF, DET, PHI and PIT have three games in hand more than FLA and may push FLA out of the race; I am hoping for them to abdicate and drop in standings. With the goalies hurt, it is more likely than before the game against the Habs.

OTT may get hot with Norris back and Pinto down to the third line despite the unremarkable D.

 

The wild card race between EDM, LAK, STL and CGY should keep them all above FLA. I doubt NSH and NYI will sink any lower.

 

the draft  is looking good for the Habs. Go, Habs Go!