2023-24 Montreal Canadiens Discussion Thread

[tomh009]

32 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

It’s easier said than done to get a guy like Panarin to sign. When he went to the Rangers wasn’t his choice either NY or Florida, but he really wanted to go to the Rangers. Can’t see us having that kind of advantage where a big name UFA is available AND we are his first choice.

Yes, media and fan pressure. And, yes, relatively high taxes (though Quebec's income tax rate really isn't much different from that of NYC).

 

But also a young team on the rise. A city that loves hockey. A hall-of-fame coach. An unmatched heritage. A respected GM that treats players well. A safe city to bring up a family in.

 

Really, it's not all negative. What the final score will be is heavily dependent on the player's priorities.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

40 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

It’s easier said than done to get a guy like Panarin to sign. When he went to the Rangers wasn’t his choice either NY or Florida, but he really wanted to go to the Rangers. Can’t see us having that kind of advantage where a big name UFA is available AND we are his first choice.

 

Well - the "big move" could take the form of a Dach-style trade. I would regard as much more likely than a UFA signing, certainly over 2024-25 anyhow.

 

I hear you on Panarin, but I also think the idea that players don't want to play in Montreal is greatly exaggerated. Some guys don't like Canadian markets, true, but plenty are perfectly happy to play here. So yeah, we're not NY, but we can be legitimate players in the UFA market. Eventually.

[DON]

I think damn near 100% of NHL players are willing to play in NYC, same not can be said for Montreal or most other NHL cities.

 

I think it is always the most popular stop voted on by the players anyways.

[GHT120]

4 hours ago, DON said:

Was suggested that Hughes sign Guhle-Slafkovski to long term deals this summer.

I know extra little about contract/cap stuff, but maybe is a good idea?

It all depends upon what Guhle/Slafkovsky would ask for ... the concept is that as they have not yet fully established themselves they might accept less than they could ask for next summer if they have strong 24/25 seasons ... on the other hand, they might want to "gamble on themselves" and wait until their ELCs are complete ... but its worth at least asking.

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

11 minutes ago, GHT120 said:

It all depends upon what Guhle/Slafkovsky would ask for ... the concept is that as they have not yet fully established themselves they might accept less than they could ask for next summer if they have strong 24/25 seasons ... on the other hand, they might want to "gamble on themselves" and wait until their ELCs are complete ... but its worth at least asking.

 

It's certainly worth asking. It's always tricky for a GM to decide whether to do a bridge deal to get a better idea of how good a player is or try and lock them up long term. It worked out great for Colorado signing Mackinnon to a 7 year contract after his ELC as he exploded in to one of the game's great players and was tremendous value but it doesn't always work out that way. Brad Marchand was another value contract for the team as his contract of 6.125M is great value for a guy scoring over a point a game BUT sometimes the player just wants the security of a longer term contract. It depends a lot on what the player wants. 

 

Then you have Gallagher's contract, not so great value. I have faith in Hughes in this area though as contract negotiations is something he is pretty familiar with. 

[DON]

Agree on Ylonen, play him over Pearson/Anderson/Gallagher/Armia and see if a dud or not before the off-season (Unless they already know he is basically done as a Hab?)

2023-24 Third Quarter Grades: Forwards – HabsWorld.net

[GHT120]

38 minutes ago, DON said:

(Unless they already know he is basically done as a Hab?)

I expect you may have hit the nail on the head.

[tomh009]

2 hours ago, DON said:

Agree on Ylonen, play him over Pearson/Anderson/Gallagher/Armia and see if a dud or not before the off-season (Unless they already know he is basically done as a Hab?)

2023-24 Third Quarter Grades: Forwards – HabsWorld.net

If St-Louis won’t give him ice time then there is little point in doing that. Although he’d likely at least do better than Anderson …

[DON]

14 hours ago, tomh009 said:

If St-Louis won’t give him ice time then there is little point in doing that. 

Not sure what you mean?

 

Canadiens’ offseason will likely be dictated by how they manage their greatest strength - The Athletic

If stuff Hutson, Reinbacher & Engstrom in Laval for a year, then just have 9 others to shuffle.

Can you play both Struble & Xhekaj as your #2 and #3 LH-d?

Supposedly Engstrom has played right, as has Harris & Guhle.

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

1 hour ago, DON said:

Canadiens’ offseason will likely be dictated by how they manage their greatest strength - The Athletic

If stuff Hutson, Reinbacher & Engstrom in Laval for a year, then just have 9 others to shuffle.

Can you play both Struble & Xhekaj as your #2 and #3 LH-d?

Supposedly Engstrom has played right, as has Harris & Guhle.

 

That's a lot of defensemen to find ice time for. It's hard to develop them all properly as there is just so much room. I expect at least one of Harris, Barron, Kovacevic to be gone by the start of next season. If they trade one of the others it will be because they got an offer they couldn't turn down. 

[hab29RETIRED]

15 hours ago, tomh009 said:

If St-Louis won’t give him ice time then there is little point in doing that. Although he’d likely at least do better than Anderson …

I would have preferred Anderson being sent down to Laval two

months ago, and given Lias Andersson a look instead.

[DON]

4 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

I would have preferred Anderson being sent down to Laval

I know he has big contract; but, AHL time seemed to of given Armia a wake-up call (your career is tanking... gotta work harder or smarter!).

At some point, you have to sit him or do something different dont you, Torterella would!.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

1 hour ago, DON said:

Not sure what you mean?

 

Canadiens’ offseason will likely be dictated by how they manage their greatest strength - The Athletic

If stuff Hutson, Reinbacher & Engstrom in Laval for a year, then just have 9 others to shuffle.

Can you play both Struble & Xhekaj as your #2 and #3 LH-d?

Supposedly Engstrom has played right, as has Harris & Guhle.

 

Fascinating backlog. Savard is gone next season and Kovicevic’s crest has fallen considerably since last year. Mattheson may prove less disposable because of his borderline elite offence, at least in the short term.

 

I don’t know what advanced stats say, but Harris has not impressed in his sophomore year, and Struble seems to have fallen back since his impressive debut earlier this season.

 

Weeding out may not prove as hard as it first appears…

[GHT120]

3 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

Fascinating backlog. Savard is gone next season and Kovicevic’s crest has fallen considerably since last year.

Kovacevic is signed, and I-M-O firmly embedded as the 6/7 for next season ... I would have no issue with extending him for a couple of years at up to a maximum of the bury-able AAV ($1.15 for 25/26) ... he fits the role, knows the team (players and coaches) and would not be difficult to move if necessary

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

9 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

Weeding out may not prove as hard as it first appears…

 

I don't think it will be as hard either, in my opinion:

 

Guhle, Xkekaj, Reinbacher - absolute keepers and will be Habs long term

Mailloux - likely a keeper, just needs to keep working on his defense, his offensive skills are major league

Hutson, Engstrom - need a chance to see them play the pro game for further evaluation

Kovacevic, Barron, Harris - expendable

Struble - likely a good bottom paring defensemen, brings a physical element the ones mentioned above don't

Matheson, Savard - needs to keep at least 1 veteran, I think Savard is here until the trade deadline next year but if they are in contention for a playoff spot then maybe longer

 

[GHT120]

12 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

Mattheson may prove less disposable because of his borderline elite offence, at least in the short term.

Based on his offensive production the last two seasons in Montréal, Matheson may have the highest trade value of his career, making a trade perhaps more likely ... he is 16th in the NHL in Pts/Gm this season with the 4th lowest AAV in that group ...  it will depend on how sustainable HuGo believe his production is AND how they project the youngsters.  

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

4 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

 

I don't think it will be as hard either, in my opinion:

 

Guhle, Xkekaj, Reinbacher - absolute keepers and will be Habs long term

Mailloux - likely a keeper, just needs to keep working on his defense, his offensive skills are major league

Hutson, Engstrom - need a chance to see them play the pro game for further evaluation

Kovacevic, Barron, Harris - expendable

Struble - likely a good bottom paring defensemen, brings a physical element the ones mentioned above don't

Matheson, Savard - needs to keep at least 1 veteran, I think Savard is here until the trade deadline next year but if they are in contention for a playoff spot then maybe longer

 

 

Agree. The complication is if, as rumours suggest, the Habs are looking to add an impact FW. At that point you MAY need to ship out one of the D men you’d rather keep. Hopefully not, but it’s a possibility; and it’s at that point that you really need to cross your fingers that player eval is accurate.

[Commandant]

I think we underrate Harris a lot.  His adavnce stats are very good.  He also has the versatility to play both LD and RD with little drop off in those stats.  He moves the puck well and gets it out of the zone.  All of this makes him more valuable than many think.

[GHT120]

2 hours ago, DON said:

 

Struble, Reinbacher, Mailloux and Hutson (and Engström if/when he signs), will still be on ELCs ... if they start in Laval next season, then the numbers align ... but I expect a couple to be moved at the draft or over the summer.

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

25 minutes ago, Commandant said:

I think we underrate Harris a lot.  His adavnce stats are very good.  He also has the versatility to play both LD and RD with little drop off in those stats.  He moves the puck well and gets it out of the zone.  All of this makes him more valuable than many think.

 

We probably do underrate Harris. He is smart, mobile and has great character.  I put him in the expendable category, not because he is bad, just because I think others will leapfrog him as they have attributes that are really important for a defensemen in the NHL (ie size, physicality, offensive skill) while also being as mobile as Harris. 

 

Harris/Kovacevic could be keepers as bottom pairing defensemen.  Not sure where Barron fits in, he has some good offensive skill but I think Reinbacher, Mailloux will be vastly superior on the right side and I don't see Barron being a bottom pairing defensemen. 

[tomh009]

3 hours ago, DON said:

Not sure what you mean?

 

Canadiens’ offseason will likely be dictated by how they manage their greatest strength - The Athletic (...)

The discussion I was replying to was about potentially testing Ylonen for the rest of the season. not about the D choices for next season.

 

And St-Louis has given Ylonen minimal ice time when he has been playing, usually on the fourth line. Whether he is that bad or not, either way it sure doesn't look like St-Louis wants to give him a look in the middle six, whatever his rationale is. So, not much point in inserting him in the lineup now, I expect he'll be somewhere else next season, as much as we have a dearth of middle-six wingers.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

I see Harris as an NHLer for sure, but an easily-outmuscled bottom pairing guy whose smarts don't translate into offence. Not a core piece. 

[DON]

I meant. Why dont they (St Louis) play Ylonen over the slug forwards that are getting more icetime, to finish off the season and see what he can do with 14-15 instead of the 10:13 minutes/game and some more PP time? 

2 hours ago, tomh009 said:

The discussion I was replying to was about potentially testing Ylonen for the rest of the season. not about the D choices for next season.

 

[tomh009]

Just now, DON said:

I meant. Why dont they (St Louis) play Ylonen over the slug forwards that are getting more icetime, to finish off the season and see what he can do with 14-15 instead of the 10:13 minutes/game and some more PP time?

Right. But unless Hughes starts micromanaging players' ice time, I don't think that's going to happen. At least not once St-Louis is back.

[Commandant]

2 hours ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

 

We probably do underrate Harris. He is smart, mobile and has great character.  I put him in the expendable category, not because he is bad, just because I think others will leapfrog him as they have attributes that are really important for a defensemen in the NHL (ie size, physicality, offensive skill) while also being as mobile as Harris. 

 

Harris/Kovacevic could be keepers as bottom pairing defensemen.  Not sure where Barron fits in, he has some good offensive skill but I think Reinbacher, Mailloux will be vastly superior on the right side and I don't see Barron being a bottom pairing defensemen. 

 

The versatility to play either side as your 5/6/7 D is really more value than we give credit for.  Its why Josh Gorges stuck around here so long