MTL's biggest need: center?

[alfredoh2009]

https://www.habsworld.net/2024/06/montreals-biggest-need-going-into-2024-2025/

 

good article by Peter Longo, it made some convincing arguments that the Habs biggest need is a consistent point-producing center that can anchor any of the top-6 lines.

 

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

It's pretty simple really, a healthy Dach and our need at center likely diminishes substantially.  If Dach can't stay healthy then we need a center.  Don't know what else to say. 

 

I think the article is pretty much stating the obvious (like I do sometimes). 

[DON]

40 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

It's pretty simple really, a healthy Dach and our need at center likely diminishes substantially. 

Why, he is a 0.4pts/game at 23 yr old.

Habs need a 82+point centre, not a middling one, like Dach has been so far.

He may end up being good, but an all-star calibre centre and a skilled top ten scoring winger is what they need and has been non-existent on a Hab roster since the 80s.

I just dont think Dach will ever be a 70-90 point centre.

[Prime Minister Koivu]

16 minutes ago, DON said:

Why, he is a 0.4pts/game at 23 yr old.

Habs need a 82+point centre, not a middling one, like Dach has been so far.

He may end up being good, but an all-star calibre centre and a skilled top ten scoring winger is what they need and has been non-existent on a Hab roster since the 80s.

I just dont think Dach will ever be a 70-90 point centre.

We can’t judge him yet because he has spent much of the last two seasons hurt. 
 

Dach may have an injury problem and if so then he is a bust. 
 

However Dach shows incredible skill and I definitely believe that if he played with quality wingers he would hit 80 points. 
 

Dach must stay healthy this year 
 

 

[Commandant]

1 hour ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

It's pretty simple really, a healthy Dach and our need at center likely diminishes substantially.  If Dach can't stay healthy then we need a center.  Don't know what else to say. 

 

I think the article is pretty much stating the obvious (like I do sometimes). 

 

Yup, exactly.... a Suzuki - Dach combo down the middle is very good if Dach is healthy and reaches his potential. 

 

If Dach doesn't, then we need another centre. 

 

I think most people on the site would agree with that. 

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

53 minutes ago, DON said:

Why, he is a 0.4pts/game at 23 yr old.

 

 

You are cherry picking stats by using his early years in your compilation. I could say he was averaging a point a game last year until he got hurt(really cherry picking). The year before he was at .65 pts/game until he got hurt.  Of course his injuries are a concern but tons of potential and looked dominant at times when healthy. 

 

 

[DON]

1 hour ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

 

You are cherry picking stats by using his early years in your compilation. I could say he was averaging a point a game last year until he got hurt(really cherry picking). 

212 NHL games played, is a good amount of games for a forward, no?

Caufield is a 0.74pt/gm in 205 NHL games played. 

Dach has proven dick-all, other than is prone to injury since juniors.

We hope, wish, pray he will be at least a  55-65pt centre, but a PPG centre, no one is expecting that, are they.

 

And a young top-six centre seems lacking after Dach, so an upgrade (or injury fill in) at #1 or #2 centre is non-existent and seems one of biggest needs.

Even if that young centre (Lindstrom/Catton/Iginla) has to mostly play wing for his first couple NHL years.

 

 

[Commandant]

31 minutes ago, DON said:

212 NHL games played, is a good amount of games for a forward, no?

Caufield is a 0.74pt/gm in 205 NHL games played. 

Dach has proven dick-all, other than is prone to injury since juniors.

We hope, wish, pray he will be at least a  55-65pt centre, but a PPG centre, no one is expecting that, are they.

 

And a young top-six centre seems lacking after Dach, so an upgrade (or injury fill in) at #1 or #2 centre is non-existent and seems one of biggest needs.

Even if that young centre (Lindstrom/Catton/Iginla) has to mostly play wing for his first couple NHL years.

 

 

 

There is no reason to use his 18/19 year old seasons, when Caufield was in college. 

 

Yeah he struggled as a teenager, as some do.  

 

His recent seasons are more of an indication of what he'll be if he says healthy, which is the biggest question. 

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

I mean...HuGo did at C the exact move we're hoping they pull off at W: trading good-but-not-indispensable assets to get a young player with high potential.

 

I've said before that this rebuild hinges to a significant degree upon Dach. Kirby has shown in stretches that he may become an impact C. But in two consecutive seasons, that potential has been negated by injuries.

 

Before we go using still more major assets to replace Dach, we need more certainty about Dach's durability and his development. Otherwise we will basically have paid twice to address the hole at C. Such squandering of assets is not to be done prematurely. So let's see how this season goes. If he suffers yet another major injury, or if he just flatlines, then yes, we will need to fundamentally rethink the situation.

 

And if that occurs, BTW, we may regret spending assets on a W (which is what everyone currently assumes will happen). 

 

 

 

 

[Habsfan89]

I think habs biggest need is to stay healthy for once. Right now we don’t have the nhl leave depth to over come key injuries.  I think the next 3 years will be a big idea on where our level of talent is and/or turns out to be.  
 

we got to do a great job in the development process with our young top talent before the big contracts run out so we know where we need to add once we got the cap space to do it. 
 

its hard to say what our biggest need is right now, when we still don’t have a clear idea of what our talent will turn into. 

[DON]

10 hours ago, Habsfan89 said:

its hard to say what our biggest need is right now... 

More scoring isnt it?

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

11 hours ago, Habsfan89 said:

I think habs biggest need is to stay healthy for once. Right now we don’t have the nhl leave depth to over come key injuries.  I think the next 3 years will be a big idea on where our level of talent is and/or turns out to be.  
 

we got to do a great job in the development process with our young top talent before the big contracts run out so we know where we need to add once we got the cap space to do it. 
 

its hard to say what our biggest need is right now, when we still don’t have a clear idea of what our talent will turn into. 

 

Well, other than Dach we seemed to be tolerably healthy by NHL standards. Wifi’s injury sucked, but he was up and down all season anyway.

 

Your last sentence is what’s bugging me about the rebuild. It is still hard to look at Montreal and see the contours of a contender. What we can project, I guess, is a team with a strong all-around D unit and a bona-fide #1 line. Everything else is a question mark. 

 

It troubles me a bit that Nick Suzuki is turning 25 and we still can’t reasonably say “hey, this is a contender in embryo.” In order to contend eventually, this team seems to need to add pieces that do not already exist in the organization…which is to say that we cannot be identified as future contenders at all, as yet.

 

 

[Prime Minister Koivu]

1 hour ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

Well, other than Dach we seemed to be tolerably healthy by NHL standards. Wifi’s injury sucked, but he was up and down all season anyway.

 

Your last sentence is what’s bugging me about the rebuild. It is still hard to look at Montreal and see the contours of a contender. What we can project, I guess, is a team with a strong all-around D unit and a bona-fide #1 line. Everything else is a question mark. 

 

It troubles me a bit that Nick Suzuki is turning 25 and we still can’t reasonably say “hey, this is a contender in embryo.” In order to contend eventually, this team seems to need to add pieces that do not already exist in the organization…which is to say that we cannot be identified as future contenders at all, as yet.

 

 

That’s why there is such a push to find that top 6 forward so that we have a complete and competitive second line. 
 

Habs have the pieces to have a strong bottom six as well. Although those players are still in the minors for the most part. 
 

One thing from last season is that since Slafkovsky joined the top line they were top 5 in the entire league for production. 
 

Having a league leading top line is a strong start to building a contender. We need a strong second line too and hopefully we get that this year. 
 

 

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

3 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

It troubles me a bit that Nick Suzuki is turning 25 and we still can’t reasonably say “hey, this is a contender in embryo.” In order to contend eventually, this team seems to need to add pieces that do not already exist in the organization…which is to say that we cannot be identified as future contenders at all, as yet.

 

 

I hear what you are saying but when you have a bunch of young players you never know when a few of them might take big steps forward at the same time. Maybe next year;

 

1) Dach will stay healthy and develop into the center we have been hoping for

2) The young D will continue to progress

3) Roy takes a big step forward

4) Monty continues to play well in net

5) Josh Anderson has a rebound year

6) Armia continues where he left off last year

 

If the above happens (or maybe 4 or 5 of them) then we could surprise. I am assuming whomever we draft is a couple years away. It's also possible Hughes pulls off a good trade to get another good young forward. Maybe this is wishful thinking but it could happen, the Devils improved 45 points a couple years ago. We don't need to improve that much to fight for a playoff spot (18 - 20 points would do it). 

 

[alfredoh2009]

40 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

 

I hear what you are saying but when you have a bunch of young players you never know when a few of them might take big steps forward at the same time. Maybe next year;

 

1) Dach will stay healthy and develop into the center we have been hoping for

2) The young D will continue to progress

3) Roy takes a big step forward

4) Monty continues to play well in net

5) Josh Anderson has a rebound year

6) Armia continues where he left off last year

 

If the above happens (or maybe 4 or 5 of them) then we could surprise. I am assuming whomever we draft is a couple years away. It's also possible Hughes pulls off a good trade to get another good young forward. Maybe this is wishful thinking but it could happen, the Devils improved 45 points a couple years ago. We don't need to improve that much to fight for a playoff spot (18 - 20 points would do it). 

 

 

that's a lot of "if"s that need to happen for this team to be considered a playoff team. More is needed for this team to become s cup contender.

 

HughGort's patch up work with Dach and Newhook is not enough to make this team a cup contender, more is needed. Drafting Slaf was a good step in that direction.

[Commandant]

oh look, another shot at management..... boring. 

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

27 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

 

that's a lot of "if"s that need to happen for this team to be considered a playoff team. More is needed for this team to become s cup contender.

 

HughGort's patch up work with Dach and Newhook is not enough to make this team a cup contender, more is needed. Drafting Slaf was a good step in that direction.

 

I wouldn't call it "patch up work", I call it a rebuild which was badly needed and it can't be done properly overnight. Hughes has made a lot of good steps. Losing Dach hurt very badly last year, brutal luck. Give us a much improved 2nd line and this team becomes very interesting and fun. 

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

31 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

Drafting Slaf was a good step in that direction.

 

There was another guy they drafted who I also think is a step in the right direction. You may have heard of him. He played for Saginaw this year. Not giving any more clues but I think you will figure it out. 

[DON]

3 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

 

There was another guy they drafted who I also think is a step in the right direction. You may have heard of him. He played for Saginaw this year. Not giving any more clues but I think you will figure it out. 

WELLlll... i still think Firkus might of been a better choice over Beck, he simply scores alot and i like Beck but is more a solid 2 way 3rd line centre, which isnt that hard to find in trade is it?

Firkus is small, but has a knack for scoring, at junior level anyways.

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

2 hours ago, DON said:

WELLlll... i still think Firkus might of been a better choice over Beck, he simply scores alot and i like Beck but is more a solid 2 way 3rd line centre, which isnt that hard to find in trade is it?

Firkus is small, but has a knack for scoring, at junior level anyways.

 

Junior hockey is full of guys who could score at that level but never made it to the NHL. I am very  happy with the choice of Owen Beck. 

[Commandant]

Isn't the problem the pick of Mesar over Firkus, not Beck. 

[DON]

For me at the time, i was pulling for Firkus name to be called when Beck was.

(Firkus impressed me at top prospects game, sneaky scorer, kinda like a slippery Corey Perry, but small).

But, time will tell and of course are tons of junior small scorers whose game dosent translate to NHL, whereas a Beck seems a lock to be a Dvorak-type at worst. 

 

[Sir_Boagalott]

Currently, C might still be a need, and thats another reason why I want Lindstrom so bad.  He's a perfect replacement C ifs Dach turns out not being a good C.

 

10 hours ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

 

I hear what you are saying but when you have a bunch of young players you never know when a few of them might take big steps forward at the same time. Maybe next year;

 

1) Dach will stay healthy and develop into the center we have been hoping for

2) The young D will continue to progress

3) Roy takes a big step forward

4) Monty continues to play well in net

5) Josh Anderson has a rebound year

6) Armia continues where he left off last year

 

If the above happens (or maybe 4 or 5 of them) then we could surprise. I am assuming whomever we draft is a couple years away. It's also possible Hughes pulls off a good trade to get another good young forward. Maybe this is wishful thinking but it could happen, the Devils improved 45 points a couple years ago. We don't need to improve that much to fight for a playoff spot (18 - 20 points would do it). 

 

 

I agree and think there could be a few more, such as: 

7) Gally plays close to a full season and is somewhat productive

 

I tend to see similarities in the current Habs with 93 and 86 Habs.  A commonality is having numerous young players that we currently have no idea what they can really do.  When they make the Playoffs, we will get to see how good they are and what they are really like.  Numerous of them could turn out to be clutch and HOF players.  

 

4 hours ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

 

Junior hockey is full of guys who could score at that level but never made it to the NHL. I am very  happy with the choice of Owen Beck. 

 

 

I certainly don't under estimate Beck either.  I find it funny that most poster here want to see him in the AHL next year because "he's not ready yet".  After all, Beck was 1 of the last players cut from the Habs when he was 18.  He was the 1 of the best defensive C's in the OHL then and he still is, and now he's the best at faceoffs in the OHL.    Plus, he has been a large contributing factor on 2 different teams in the Memorial Cup.  

 

Even if he is but a 3rd liner Beck will be important for Cup runs and I say the same for Roy and probably Kapanen too.  

 

 

[hab29RETIRED]

5 hours ago, Sir_Boagalott said:

Currently, C might still be a need, and thats another reason why I want Lindstrom so bad.  He's a perfect replacement C ifs Dach turns out not being a good C.

 

 

I agree and think there could be a few more, such as: 

7) Gally plays close to a full season and is somewhat productive

 

I tend to see similarities in the current Habs with 93 and 86 Habs.  A commonality is having numerous young players that we currently have no idea what they can really do.  When they make the Playoffs, we will get to see how good they are and what they are really like.  Numerous of them could turn out to be clutch and HOF players.  

 

 

 

I certainly don't under estimate Beck either.  I find it funny that most poster here want to see him in the AHL next year because "he's not ready yet".  After all, Beck was 1 of the last players cut from the Habs when he was 18.  He was the 1 of the best defensive C's in the OHL then and he still is, and now he's the best at faceoffs in the OHL.    Plus, he has been a large contributing factor on 2 different teams in the Memorial Cup.  

 

Even if he is but a 3rd liner Beck will be important for Cup runs and I say the same for Roy and probably Kapanen too.  

 

 

86 habs had an influx of young players stepping in on a team with with franchise holdovers in Gainey and Robinson, solid veterans in Smith, Naslund,  Walter, Green, and young studs who had a few years and playoff runs in Chelios and Carbonneau and role players like MacPhee. We don't have that veteran core as a foundation that added Roy (don't have a goalie like him), Lemieux, Skrudland, Mommesso and Richer - who were injured early in the playoffs.
 

ditto for 93 - solid PRODUCTIVE  veteran core - Roy, Carbonneau, Muller, Damphousse, Bellows, with a young D and rookie forwards that included Leclair, 

 

the current squad has a washed up Gallagher and Anderson, an unproven late blooming goalie and some young kids. This team is nothing like 86 or 93, because the Habs have NEVER done a full rebuild before. There are no parallels an all between this team and 86 or 93. Those teams were regular playoff teams. The Habs did not start missing the playoffs until after the 93 cup run.

 

i know you like big, but im more leary taking Lindstrom, because the kids already had injury issues - similar to Dach. Also questions on his hockey IQ. Biggest isn't always the best way to go if they don't have the high hockey IQ and seem to be made of glass.

[alfredoh2009]

17 hours ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

 

I wouldn't call it "patch up work", I call it a rebuild which was badly needed and it can't be done properly overnight. Hughes has made a lot of good steps. Losing Dach hurt very badly last year, brutal luck. Give us a much improved 2nd line and this team becomes very interesting and fun. 

 

a rebuild involves the acquisition of elite talent, HughGort has not added McDavid/McKinnon type of talent.

 

Slaf, Hutson and Mesar are very good picks, I am hopeful they will become elite but not convinced yet. Beck is a 3rd-liner. Dach, Newhook, Barron, Heineman, Reinbacher, Fowler are solid picks but I am almost certain they are not elite.

 

That's what I mean, filling mid-6/2nd-pair roster spots but not that many that are surefire elite players.