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Permanent Trade Proposal Thread

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28 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

The increasing likelihood that KK will not emerge as an elite player really puts a crimp in all the 'we'll contend in three years' stuff, IMHO. The projected organizational charts sure look better if we pretend that KK is destined to be a stud. If he doesn't work put that way, it weakens the picture considerably.

He is frickin 19 years old man, give him a break.

(I assume he has been taking boxing lessons as well)

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16 minutes ago, DON said:

He is frickin 19 years old man, give him a break.

(I assume he has been taking boxing lessons as well)

 

Yeah, yeah. I didn't say he *will* bust. Maybe Commandant is right and he becomes Kopitar 2.0. But as I've noted before, elite young players nowadays generally look much more impressive than he has thus far. And my main point there, which is (naturally)nbeing ignored as peopke rush in to defend their baby, is that IF KK turns out to be merely a decent player, it makes the future look considerably dimmer. And feankly, anyone who watches KK and says 'wow, that guy is going to be a real impact player!' night after night is watching different games from me. 

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11 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

Yeah, yeah. I didn't say he *will* bust.

No just your standard pessimistic spin is all. As expected.

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11 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

Yeah, yeah. I didn't say he *will* bust. Maybe Commandant is right and he becomes Kopitar 2.0. But as I've noted before, elite young players nowadays generally look much more impressive than he has thus far. And my main point there, which is (naturally)nbeing ignored as peopke rush in to defend their baby, is that IF KK turns out to be merely a decent player, it makes the future look considerably dimmer. And feankly, anyone who watches KK and says 'wow, that guy is going to be a real impact player!' night after night is watching different games from me. 

Pacioretty didn’t look impressive the first couple of years. Danault was disappointing when he got here and in Chicago, Pleks was a fourth liner, Jumbo joe was traded because he looked slow in Boston, 

 

let’s given him time to develop

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Jumbo Joe had 7 points as an 18 year old rookie, spending the entire season with the Bruins. (55 games played)

 

Kotkaniemi had 34 points as  a rookie. 

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, alfredoh2009 said:

Pacioretty didn’t look impressive the first couple of years. Danault was disappointing when he got here and in Chicago, Pleks was a fourth liner, Jumbo joe was traded because he looked slow in Boston, 

 

let’s given him time to develop

Pacioretty’s development was helped by spending time in the AHL - which he said he preferred than being on the 4th line and getting limited minutes.

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58 minutes ago, Commandant said:

Jumbo Joe had 7 points as an 18 year old rookie, spending the entire season with the Bruins. (55 games played)

 

Kotkaniemi had 34 points as  a rookie. 

 

 

 

 

Samsonov won rookie of the year and than started declining while Thornton was dominating.  Yakapov had a pretty good rookie year.  So limited early success doesn’t mean he is going to become kopitar.  Important thing is him getting ice time at centre with skilled players and not grunts,if he’s going to reach the potential we hope he has.

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Kopitar put up big points as a rookie so thats a tough comparison even for the best kids in this league! But, you can definitely compare him to say big boy A. Barkov (similar size etc)

Did everyone think he would be a bust after putting up only 34 points in 71 games as a 19 year old in his 2nd season in the NHL with FLA? of course not!

KK had 34 points in 79 games as an 18yr old in his first season! pretty close all the while being a full year younger!!!!


The point is only in Montreal do we play out the careers of our players at only 18.

 

I personally think we've brought him along pretty good so far. For one, we stuck to developing him as a C which is a huge difference compared to the constant flip flop we saw with Galchenyuk. Also, theres nothing wrong with being sheltered on the 3rd line as long as you get a regular shift in the line up, which he does! The moment he is no longer trusted to play a role in a game is when he should not be here. Are the top players in the AHL better than all the 3rd lines in the NHL? I'll guarantee they are not. Is playing with Lehkonan, Drouin, Cousins and Armia (when healthy) for 11 minutes a night more beneficial then 22 minutes with Chalres Hudon and Beliize?

So it becomes this critical question... Are the extra minutes in a game against inferior players better for development then less minutes against better ones. 

When hes not playing hes watching and learning from the very best in the game in the world! not to mention professional coaching with pro teammates. To me, that has immense value of its own.

I will say  my  biggest problem would be his lack of time on the PP and zero time on the PK. PP and PK are a great chance to develop his offensive and defensive skills further as well as a vote of confidence from the coaches. If he isnt getting healthy minutes in that area then he's lacking key developmental minutes he could be getting in Laval is all. 

 

Its a shame he's lost some development in the first half of the season due to injuries. We forget he had a knee procedure in the off season as well that slowed him down. Lately he's been much better.The great news is that fight probably gave him some self assurance regarding his latest head injury and the confidence to skate on the ice with a little more swagger...

 

I believe we are going to see a much better Kotkaniemi in this 2nd half of the season.

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of the trade assets the CH has, I believe (IMHO) that Petry should be moved. Here are a few ideas:

Petry for 1st & 2nd plus a prospect: 

a) Nashville's 1st & 2nd 2020 picks plus Eeli Tolvanen

b) Winnipeg's 1st & 2nd 2020 picks plus Ville Heinola

c) Vegas's 1st & Holden(Contract)  picks plus Nicolas Hague

 

Petry for 1st plus a younger upgrade on LD: 

d) Calgary's 1st (no 2nd) 2020 plus TJ Brodie and maybe even a goalie throw-in like Artyom Zagidulin

 

Either of these would make me happy. The Habs D would take a hit in the short term, but we would build a solid core for years to come.

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Tj brodie is a pending ufa.

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3 hours ago, alfredoh2009 said:

of the trade assets the CH has, I believe (IMHO) that Petry should be moved. Here are a few ideas:

Petry for 1st & 2nd plus a prospect: 

a) Nashville's 1st & 2nd 2020 picks plus Eeli Tolvanen

b) Winnipeg's 1st & 2nd 2020 picks plus Ville Heinola

c) Vegas's 1st & Holden(Contract)  picks plus Nicolas Hague

 

Petry for 1st plus a younger upgrade on LD: 

d) Calgary's 1st (no 2nd) 2020 plus TJ Brodie and maybe even a goalie throw-in like Artyom Zagidulin

 

Either of these would make me happy. The Habs D would take a hit in the short term, but we would build a solid core for years to come.

Bergevin isn't blowing up the team, so Petry isn't going anywhere.  Injuries will be the same excuse at the end of the year press conference. Don't expect Bergevin to do much at the deadline.

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14 minutes ago, Habsfan89 said:

Bergevin isn't blowing up the team, so Petry isn't going anywhere.  Injuries will be the same excuse at the end of the year press conference. Don't expect Bergevin to do much at the deadline.

Same as trading Pacioretty or Subban didn't "blow up the team", trading Petry wouldn't. It is smart asset management to trade an ageing veteran at his highest value for draft picks and prospects.

If we got Tatar and Suzuki for #67, We can get a great return for 32 year old Petry without "blowing up the team" 

 

273eto.jpg

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13 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

Same as trading Pacioretty or Subban didn't "blow up the team", trading Petry wouldn't. It is smart asset management to trade an ageing veteran at his highest value for draft picks and prospects.

If we got Tatar and Suzuki for #67, We can get a great return for 32 year old Petry without "blowing up the team" 

 

273eto.jpg

 

Neither of them were moved at the trade deadline, either.

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20 minutes ago, huzer said:

 

Neither of them were moved at the trade deadline, either.

That is a good point that I have missed. I am probably getting ahead of myself, but I think Petry will get moved if not at he trade deadline then in the Summer.

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39 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

Same as trading Pacioretty or Subban didn't "blow up the team", trading Petry wouldn't. It is smart asset management to trade an ageing veteran at his highest value for draft picks and prospects.

If we got Tatar and Suzuki for #67, We can get a great return for 32 year old Petry without "blowing up the team" 

 

273eto.jpg

It was just Suzuki for Pacioretty, Bergevin didn't want Tatar. VGK put him in the deal so they could Get rid of Tatars contract so they could sign Pacioretty long term.

 

Subban we got back Weber, their was no draft picks involved.

 

Petry is still under contract and won't be moved. 

 

He's going to try and make the playoffs (which we won't) so he isn't going to trade anyone. Maybe Byron if he comes back before the trade deadline and plays good.

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7 minutes ago, Habsfan89 said:

It was just Suzuki for Pacioretty, Bergevin didn't want Tatar. VGK put him in the deal so they could Get rid of Tatars contract so they could sign Pacioretty long term.

 

Subban we got back Weber, their was no draft picks involved.

 

Petry is still under contract and won't be moved. 

 

He's going to try and make the playoffs (which we won't) so he isn't going to trade anyone. Maybe Byron if he comes back before the trade deadline and plays good.

Not disputing the Subban one:for:one trade, but unless you are privy to MB not wanting Tatar and being forced to take him: I will disagree on that.

 

Petry will get moved. It does not make sense to keep him after the 2020-2021 season and there is a risk that his value falls off next season. Got to sell high! 

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33 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

Not disputing the Subban one:for:one trade, but unless you are privy to MB not wanting Tatar and being forced to take him: I will disagree on that.

 

Petry will get moved. It does not make sense to keep him after the 2020-2021 season and there is a risk that his value falls off next season. Got to sell high! 

I am just saying he hasn't traded his star players for the sake of getting younger. He has traded his star players to full other hole's on the team. So if he does trade a guy like Petry it will probably be to get back a player he feels can fill a hole on the team, not for draft picks.

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Switching Petry for TJ Brodie moves the hole to right but gets LD prospects and clears a spot for our current RD prospects 

 

the other moves, bring mostly prospects and no NHLer, you are right. I can find a filler in the trade partners to get back a D contract and patch until the prospects are ready

 

I would still do the trades

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18 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

Switching Petry for TJ Brodie moves the hole to right but gets LD prospects and clears a spot for our current RD prospects 

 

the other moves, bring mostly prospects and no NHLer, you are right. I can find a filler in the trade partners to get back a D contract and patch until the prospects are ready

 

I would still do the trades

LD next year will be

Chiarot 

Mete

Romanov 

 

Don't see him looking for a LD unless Romanov doesn't come over from Russia 

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49 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

Switching Petry for TJ Brodie moves the hole to right but gets LD prospects and clears a spot for our current RD prospects 

 

the other moves, bring mostly prospects and no NHLer, you are right. I can find a filler in the trade partners to get back a D contract and patch until the prospects are ready

 

I would still do the trades

 

Except Brodie can walk as a free agent in July so you run the risk of opening a hole on the right side and not filling the left-side hole either.

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9 minutes ago, dlbalr said:

 

Except Brodie can walk as a free agent in July so you run the risk of opening a hole on the right side and not filling the left-side hole either.

That’s how we got Petry, on an expiring contract 

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43 minutes ago, Habsfan89 said:

LD next year will be

Chiarot 

Mete

Romanov 

 

Don't see him looking for a LD unless Romanov doesn't come over from Russia 

Romanov will be a rookie we will need more depth than that on LD.

 

We are missing a top LD

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4 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

That’s how we got Petry, on an expiring contract 

 

Yep - but the Habs were a playoff-bound team and viewed as a team on the rise then.  They're a team that's well out of contention at the moment so the enthusiasm to stick around probably isn't going to be as strong.  Considering their recent track record on the UFA market, I certainly wouldn't consider it a given that he'd re-sign and knowing that Petry is your best trade asset, I'm not moving him for someone that I'm hopeful about having beyond this season.

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19 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

Romanov will be a rookie we will need more depth than that on LD.

 

We are missing a top LD

Bergevin won't see it that way, just like he didn't see the lack of depth this year especially at D. He puts his eggs all in one basket and then doesn't have a plan b,c or d in case things go wrong. He will put all his eggs in Romanov next year.

 

Next year's D will be

Chiarbot / Weber

Mete / Petry 

Romanov  / Kulak/fleury 

 

I don't see him making any other upgrades on D.

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49 minutes ago, dlbalr said:

 

Yep - but the Habs were a playoff-bound team and viewed as a team on the rise then.  They're a team that's well out of contention at the moment so the enthusiasm to stick around probably isn't going to be as strong.  Considering their recent track record on the UFA market, I certainly wouldn't consider it a given that he'd re-sign and knowing that Petry is your best trade asset, I'm not moving him for someone that I'm hopeful about having beyond this season.

 

Agree with your thoughts on this. If I am trading Petry then I want young talent, not someone who is likely to head elsewhere next year. 

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