The Brilliance of Bob

[markierung]

I think that we should all take a moment to marvel to the Brilliance of Bob Gainey.

It's clear that this team was in dire need of Re-building. Bob Gainey answered the call without ever admitting to it. Think about the amount of 1st, 2nd, 3rd and fourth year players that we now have on the team:

A. Kostisyn, S. Kostisyn, M. Lapierre, Chipchura, Latendresse, Obyrne, Gorges, Higgins, Plekanec, Price, Komisarek. Ryder

We also have againg players who are on the final years of contracts that will either be moved or simply let go that will leave room for more young guys:

Smolinski, Bouillon next year, Huet, Dandy, Begin, Brisebois

We also have strong pillars on this team that are locked up for years to come that will help nurture the youth and help the team win:

Markov, Hamrlik

Basically, Bob gainey has completely rebuilt this team with youth mostly through the farm. He never once mentioned that we were re-building as it may have led to lower TV ratings and corporate sponsership, but BG got it done. Now i know that he did make a few mistakes that seem like patch jobs, but really they were just temporary players so that the youngsters have more time to mature. Like smolinski was only brought in so that there would be less pressure on chips this early.

I know BG made his mistakes, Samsonov, the Theo Contract etc. But he always manages to bail himself out without causing a huge disaster. Let's not forget that all Gm's make similar mistakes. Ken Holland traded promising prospects for Bertuzzi and Sean Burke signed him to 2 years for 8 million. Even Pierre Lacroix had traded for a severly overpriced Jose Theodore.

If Bob Gainey would have said that he was starting to re-build, the last 15 years of suck fest would have seemed like a waste. Gainey avoided the entire problem and stacked the team for the future.

[Cataclaw]

Samsonov wasn't a mistake. Samsonov was an unlucky flop.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

I agree with the overall argument, but I have to wonder if this post would have appeared after, say, that 5-1 loss to Carolina.

Beyond that, I don't think the rebuilding is finished by a long shot.

This team still has no bona-fide elite centreman either to supplement or replace the aging and flawed Saku Koivu. Nor does there seem to be one in the system. This is a fundamental Achillies' Heel in this organization. We will not win anything until Bob addresses it. And the window is narrow; does anyone think that the battered and overused Koivu is going to be getting 75 points at age 35 or 36? (And even in his prime, he's still only good for 3/4 of a season; the rest of the time he's abysmal, and the team is totally reliant on him to power the offence).

Further, we seem to have problems producing elite offensive players at any position. Now I concede that things aren't as clear cut here. One or both of the Kostityns might yet emerge; Higgins may take that extra step eventually; Lats could blossom into Todd Bertuzzi redux. Nonetheless, so far our vaunted young forwards look mostly like they'll become good second liners, not stars.

On the plus side, the D looks good in the long term, what with Bob having locked up our anchors (Hamrlik, Markov), ably nurtured Komisarek (who was almost ruined by Julien) and drafted tons of exciting talent.

And there's Price: priceless.

So what I see evolving is a deep team without any really impressive talent up front, but lots of fine complementary players; a rock-solid blueline; and a potentially stellar G. But the rebuilding is a donut: a big hole in the middle.

[simonus]

So what I see evolving is a deep team without any really impressive talent up front, but lots of fine complementary players; a rock-solid blueline; and a potentially stellar G. But the rebuilding is a donut: a big hole in the middle.

that is something that can still be addressed in FA. I still believe that BG will eventually succeed in pulling a big signing.

I also think after the great D draft of 07 we will see the C draft of 08.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

that is something that can still be addressed in FA. I still believe that BG will eventually succeed in pulling a big signing.

I also think after the great D draft of 07 we will see the C draft of 08.

Don't bet on the UFA market. Teams are locking up their stars to long-term deals like crazy.

[simonus]

Don't bet on the UFA market. Teams are locking up their stars to long-term deals like crazy.

a lot of guys are getting big K's, but the last few offseasons have had a significant number of quality UFAs available.

[Fanpuck33]

If we're rebuilding, we've been doing so since 1993. We haven't had a contender since then, so we've never had anything built to rebuild. With all the young talent in the system, I'd say we've simply been slowly building the last few years. Lost of guys coming up through the system making the team and having an impact. At least in my opinion, it's been obvious that this is what Bob has been working towards. Sure, he signs a couple guys every off season, but he basically does that in case young guys aren't ready and to give us a better chance at the 8 seed until we're ready for more. He knows as well as anyone that once you're in the playoffs, anything can happen. Thus, if you have a team capable of making a low seed, you shouldn't not go for it just to rush guys through the system. This way we have a slight chance every year and guys can really work and learn and earn their spots.

[iamcanadien]

you right we do have a few good kids co,ming up but we are missing that one player who could lead us to the cup. Bob seems slow on trades and always does it way to late. Like right now we need that one player to lead us and yet he hasnt done a thing. Trade Ryder now before he slumps even more

We need vinny, trade these kids for vinny,.

Edited December 14, 2007 by iamcanadien

[Neech]

Get out the kneepads and line up, it's fellate Bob Gainey day!

Seriously now, Bob Gainey's been good, better than average, but not run away great. I'd give him around 7 out of 10. We do have a solid core of youth, but there's not a real star among them. They're good, better than most teams probably, but they won't make the difference that will make us a contender. Bob hasn't done anything to really make us a contender.

Then there are the bad moves. He recovered from Theodore very well, but we are still paying some of the money we gave Samsonov (indirectly). We lost Ribeiro, now the leading scorer on the Stars, for nothing. Beauchemin got snapped up on waivers. We seem to give players as much money as they could get. For some reason Smolinski is on our team. And cut it with the veterans 'nurturing' the youth, their presence is helpful but they're not lactating sows with rookies on their teat.

But if you look at Bob's draft picks, they have been very solid. All the first rounders look like good moves, with the small exception courtesy of hindsight that Mike Richards, Ryan Getzlaf and Jeff Carter were picked after Kostitsyn (who is still a good player). Hamrlik is a good addition. All in all, I'm very glad that we have Bob at the helm, cause we're headed in the right direction.

I would contest the claim that we've been rebuilding, we were supposed to be in the playoffs last year. Bob's just not made any rash moves that would be negative in the long term.

[Prime Minister Koivu]

If we're rebuilding, we've been doing so since 1993. We haven't had a contender since then, so we've never had anything built to rebuild. With all the young talent in the system, I'd say we've simply been slowly building the last few years. Lost of guys coming up through the system making the team and having an impact. At least in my opinion, it's been obvious that this is what Bob has been working towards. Sure, he signs a couple guys every off season, but he basically does that in case young guys aren't ready and to give us a better chance at the 8 seed until we're ready for more. He knows as well as anyone that once you're in the playoffs, anything can happen. Thus, if you have a team capable of making a low seed, you shouldn't not go for it just to rush guys through the system. This way we have a slight chance every year and guys can really work and learn and earn their spots.

Excellent post.

Fanpuck is right on the money here.

[Helmethead]

I just posted this in the Game Thread, but I just noticed that it was probably more relevant here. If the moderators want to delete anyone of the two posts I am ok with that.

QUOTE(SAKS-AVENUE @ Dec 14 2007, 01:05 AM)

Hey, did anyone watch the highlights on TSN.ca. ? I didn't see the little celebration at the end of the game. In the highlights Higgins and Price are mucking it up. They were rubbing each others helmets off and then Higgns gives Price a punch in the head. I tell you that team bonding sh1t just warms my heart.

Go HABS GO!!!!!

I saw that.

And in my eyes, that show of commoderie solidifies what I've been saying about the Canadiens. They are slowly starting to become a TEAM. Most of these players are from the same mettal. Smart, driven, goal oriented and willing to lay it all on the line. Higgins, Kovi, Pleks, both Kostitsyns, O'Byrne, Price, Chips, Tender are all under 25. We're talking that this team's nucleus is just starting to bond. I honnestly believe that these kids are maturing together and the with time they will become a force in this league. There will be growing pains, as we have experienced in the past couple of weeks, but that's when you need ur vets to take over and cover for them (hint, hint)

Whether we like to admit it or not ,this team will only go as far as these kids, (and Markov) will take them. Gainey ain't no fool. He knows this. He's seen it before, as a player and as a coach. Some kids might not work out, most will though. Add to this that our system is full of smart, educated and driven young men (Mc Donaugh, Pacioretty, Valetenko and hopefully Emelin) and not soft primadonnas (Esposito), and u'll understand that Gainey and Co. have a plan.

Once this nucleus starts gaining the confidence it needs in order to start churning out win after win, it will be much easier to rotate the core and bring in new talent. This is what Detroit has done for years, and this is what ottawa is trying to do now. In the Cap protected NHL, you might be better off having young home grown middle of the line, productive talent than a team built around one or two superstars. Superstars are achilles heels in today's NHL. They might get you one cup, but the team wont be able to sustain its production cause ur superstar(s) salary requirements limit the quality of the supporting cast you need in order to compete. Tampa Bay and Atlanta come to mind...

Let me ask you this, who would u rather go to war with; the world's most efficient brigade of paid merceneries? Or a bunch of buddies that you've grown with, bonded with, who believe in the same ideals as u and are ready to bleed for the good of the common cause?

I thought so....

[KEEP26]

was all these guys draft by bob or before he got here? i though we were rebuilding long before he came to the team and most of these guys were draft all ready and we were just wait for them to get better, so i thing bob not the only one who should get a pat on the back for the young guys on the team.. Go habs GO

[Easy Ryder]

All Bob is doing is lateral moves and waiting wishing for post Savard actual Timmins

piicks. I do not give Bob the credit for the picks i give it to the head scout.

There is a storm nearby this team that cannot win at home. Bob never stood up for

his team. Didn't meet the media to relieve pressure on the coach and on the players.

It's been 6 years and our number 1 centre is still Koivu and there is no shadow of a

number 1 franchise centre yet.

So before sending all the praises to Bob, wait for him to actually do something.

[johnnyhasbeen]

Our number 1 centre is not Koivu in my opinion, it is Pleks, and if he keeps developing he may be the number one centre we don't have by next season. There are still more guys aproaching the jump in Hamilton. I liked D'Agostino and Ferland preseason.

I agree it has been a silent rebuild, with decent, but unsteller results. We are moving ahead, but the playoffs are still far away and only games like last nights will get us there.

You didn't mention Halak as one of our developed youngsters and he can't be forgotten.

IN BOB I TRUST

[BTH]

Our number 1 centre is not Koivu in my opinion, it is Pleks, and if he keeps developing he may be the number one centre we don't have by next season. There are still more guys aproaching the jump in Hamilton. I liked D'Agostino and Ferland preseason.

I agree it has been a silent rebuild, with decent, but unsteller results. We are moving ahead, but the playoffs are still far away and only games like last nights will get us there.

You didn't mention Halak as one of our developed youngsters and he can't be forgotten.

IN BOB I TRUST

Plekanec is an awesome #2 centre but I don't think he'll ever be a gamebreaker and that's because he's mostly a perimeter player. He doesn't cut to the net and he doesn't beat people one-on-one, he circles around and looks for a passing option, and this is mostly due to his size.

He is the perfect complimentary player though - notice that he clicks with just about everyone on the team. Kovalev, Andrei Kostitsyn, Higgins, Latendresse, he was awesome with Sergei Kostitsyn on their first shift together. He's perfect because we can play Plex with anyone, on any line and he'll get the guys around him going. The only line he didn't work with was when he started the season on the third with Latendresse and Kostopoulos. He was working hard but he was all alone.

He now has 25 points, 3 ahead of the #1 centre, Koivu. Koivu is still the better player but I don't think he's quite as reliable as Plekanec who doesn't go through a slump every year and who isn't quite to prone to dumb penalties and bad giveaways. If we did wind up trading Koivu for Marleau I think we would be able to compete with Marleau-Plekanec-Chipchura-Smolinski down the middle. In fact, I would be very happy with that - though I would prefer we added a #1 centre without trading Koivu, leading to Marleau-Koivu-Plekanec-Chipchura. The questions we'd need to answer would be:

Would Plekanec yet again be wasted on the third line? I don't think so, we have more offensive winger options nowadays. With Higgins, Kovalev, Kostitsyn, Kostitsyn, Latendresse and Dandenault/Lapierre, that's 6 guys who can play wing at a third line level and who are crafty enough offensively to work with Plekanec and one of the other 6 guys.

Would Chipchura be hurt by playing on the fourth line? I don't think so. He's a defensive player and he can still learn from playing on a less talented line. Carbo likes to roll his lines so our fourth gets a lot of icetime and Chips would get time on the PK as well.

Would Saku mind not being the star of the team and #1 centre? I doubt it considering that's exactly what he wanted Gainey to get him - some support.

We do need to start drafting centers though and like simonus said, I believe this year's draft will see us taking an unusually high amount of centers, just like we did last year with defenceman.

As for us not having a true superstar in the system, that guy is Price. We picked him 5th overall in arguably the strongest draft of all time. We could have taken Kopitar or Staal or Pouliot or Brule or Bourdon... but we chose Price. And why? Because the organization felt he was "the last player remaining who [they] felt could become a franchise player."

[Habsfan]

I also think after the great D draft of 07 we will see the C draft of 08.

I agree. I hope that in next year's draft, Bob and trevor will pick up 9 centres and/or power Forwards.

This team should be fine in nets and on the D for the Next decade!

Hey, did anyone watch the highlights on TSN.ca. ? I didn't see the little celebration at the end of the game. In the highlights Higgins and Price are mucking it up. They were rubbing each others helmets off and then Higgns gives Price a punch in the head. I tell you that team bonding sh1t just warms my heart.

Ahhh, shucks!! It does warm the heart! I did see that, and i was really nice to see the boys having a little fun after the game!

[Wamsley01]

Get out the kneepads and line up, it's fellate Bob Gainey day!

Seriously now, Bob Gainey's been good, better than average, but not run away great. I'd give him around 7 out of 10. We do have a solid core of youth, but there's not a real star among them. They're good, better than most teams probably, but they won't make the difference that will make us a contender. Bob hasn't done anything to really make us a contender.

Then there are the bad moves. He recovered from Theodore very well, but we are still paying some of the money we gave Samsonov (indirectly). We lost Ribeiro, now the leading scorer on the Stars, for nothing. Beauchemin got snapped up on waivers. We seem to give players as much money as they could get. For some reason Smolinski is on our team. And cut it with the veterans 'nurturing' the youth, their presence is helpful but they're not lactating sows with rookies on their teat.

But if you look at Bob's draft picks, they have been very solid. All the first rounders look like good moves, with the small exception courtesy of hindsight that Mike Richards, Ryan Getzlaf and Jeff Carter were picked after Kostitsyn (who is still a good player). Hamrlik is a good addition. All in all, I'm very glad that we have Bob at the helm, cause we're headed in the right direction.

I would contest the claim that we've been rebuilding, we were supposed to be in the playoffs last year. Bob's just not made any rash moves that would be negative in the long term.

Savard drafted Kostitsyn

The Habs are rebuilding and have been doing so under the radar. Why do you think that everybody picked them for 14th.

On the outside people just assume they are the same shit team that has been battling for 8th for the last 5 years.

In 2002 the only reason the Habs were anywhere near the playoffs was because Theodore had a season for the ages.

If Hackett was in net they would have been in 12-14th place, look what happened the next season (2003) when he WAS average.

In 2004 the Bulldogs had just come off their appearance in the Finals with Plekanec, Ryder, Komisarek, Ward and Hainsey and the Habs were slowly working the youth into the lineup. Ribiero and Ryder had their breakout year, Komisarek finally made the club and the Habs nucleus began to change slightly. Theo bounced back, Markov was becoming more of a force, Souray finally stayed healthy and the acquistion of Kovalev added another gear to the team. But this team was a pretender that heavily relied on Theo and the Kovalev/Koivu/ Zednik line and was destroyed by Tampa in the second round because of it.

The lockout allowed the kids another year on the farm to develop. So when the 2006 season was on the way the Habs now added

Plekanec, Higgins and Perezhogin to the youth movement. All the while remaining a fringe playoff contender. But the core of the team was shifting. No longer did they have to play Rivet and Brisebois in crunch time. Souray and Markov became the top pairing, Huet became the starter, Komisarek was beginning to blossom and Higgins became a force on the top line and the Habs became a definite threat in the playoffs putting the eventual champs on the brink of elimination.

In 2007 Latendresse, Lapierre and Kostitsyn were added to the mix and we were provided with a possible glimpse in the future with Higgins dominating start and the Habs flying high at Christmas. But as youth is want to do, the Habs collapsed in the second half. But during that collapse Plekanec made the leap, Halak arrived and almost saved the season and Latendresse and Kostitsyn showed brief flashes of future potential. And the Bulldogs won the Calder with Price leading the way. The team had now essentially finished the last 5 seasons in the same place but had jettisoned the old core and replaced it with a new younger more promising one.

Which brings us to today. Chipchura, Price and now lil #### have arrived and the kiddie corps is in full force. Gainey has changed the face of this team and it seems everybody outside of Montreal has missed it. All of us on here seem to be cautiously optimistic. Afraid that this is not going to work. But thanks to some injury problems I think we all are getting what we have wanted for a long time.

If the Habs put this lineup out every night and squeak into the playoffs I will not have the same sense of "I am glad we are here, but we really have no chance". I will look forward to see how each and every one of these kids steps up, all the while knowing that if they do get bounced quickly it will be a wonderful learning experience. I also will unrealistically have in the back of my mind the 86 Cup run. Where Roy, Lemieux, Richer, Chelios, Skrudland, Dahlin, Maley, Rooney injected life into a team that was in the middle of the pack for years. (Well in those days no Cup in 6 years was depressing )

Gainey has restored hope for me. And if you are not contending, nor rebuilding. There lies no hope. (see Maple Leafs)

Turn it over to the kids Bob, and let them run with it. Please

Edited December 14, 2007 by Wamsley01

[Habsfan]

Markov was drafted during the Reggie Houle Era. Komisarek, Plex and higgins were drafted by André Savard.

[Punkned]

I agree about the "donut" thing. We need a #1 C fast. Pleks will be a good 2nd line C, but I'd be very surprise if he develops in a solid #1. It's almost certain that he won't develop in a star player.

Even if we draft good C prospects in 2008, these guys won't be impact players on the big team before 2010-2011 at best... and Saku will be 36.

We have good promising wingers in Higgins, the K bros, Lats, D'Agostini, Pacioretti, so we might have our future top 4 wingers there.

We have promising D and Price in the nets

We have good C prospects for the 2nd and 3rd lines with Pleks, Chips, White and Maxwell.

But where's the #1 C?

I give Bob an A for the drafting

But I give him a C for the UFA singings and trades.

Edited December 14, 2007 by Punkned

[KoZed]

Roster last night:

Higgins - Koivu - S. Kostitsyn

A. Kotitsyn - Plekanec - Kovalev

Latendresse - Chipchura - Dandenault

Streit - Lapierre - Kostopoulos

Markov - Komisarek

Hamrlik - O'Byrne

Bouillon - Gorges

Price

Halak

Legend:

2001 draft

2002 draft

2003 draft

2004 draft

2005 draft

Bob's first draft was 2004, so I guess we can thank the Savard-Timmins tandem for providing us with 7 of our current players. Gainey-Timmins added 5 more.

So 12 of our current regulars are players we've drafted and developped in the past 6 years. None from the 2006 draft has made it yet, but two of them are in the AHL as we speak (Carle & Valentenko) and could get a call up as early as this season. Both are probably the next ones to make it into the regular lineup, most likely as our 5th and 6th D-men.

[Wamsley01]

Roster last night:

Higgins - Koivu - S. Kostitsyn

A. Kotitsyn - Plekanec - Kovalev

Latendresse - Chipchura - Dandenault

Streit - Lapierre - Kostopoulos

Markov - Komisarek

Hamrlik - O'Byrne

Bouillon - Gorges

Price

Halak

Legend:

2001 draft

2002 draft

2003 draft

2004 draft

2005 draft

Bob's first draft was 2004, so I guess we can thank the Savard-Timmins tandem for providing us with 7 of our current players. Gainey-Timmins added 5 more.

So 12 of our current regulars are players we've drafted and developped in the past 6 years. None from the 2006 draft has made it yet, but two of them are in the AHL as we speak (Carle & Valentenko) and could get a call up as early as this season. Both are probably the next ones to make it into the regular lineup, most likely as our 5th and 6th D-men.

Plus Emelin (2004) might have made this team had he not stayed in Russia. Amazing that there are 3 20 year olds in the lineup already.

Edited December 14, 2007 by Wamsley01

[smon]

Yeah, it's kind of amazing how the mood has turned from despair to congratulations for Bob Gainey after one win.

But anyways, he has done a fairly good job drafting, esp. with Price (a pick that got a lot of heat but actually was superb) - but as has been mentioned previously, Savard drafted a lot of the team's current roster.

[saskhab]

Roster last night:

Higgins - Koivu - S. Kostitsyn

A. Kotitsyn - Plekanec - Kovalev

Latendresse - Chipchura - Dandenault

Streit - Lapierre - Kostopoulos

Markov - Komisarek

Hamrlik - O'Byrne

Bouillon - Gorges

Price

Halak

Legend:

2001 draft

2002 draft

2003 draft

2004 draft

2005 draft

Bob's first draft was 2004, so I guess we can thank the Savard-Timmins tandem for providing us with 7 of our current players. Gainey-Timmins added 5 more.

So 12 of our current regulars are players we've drafted and developped in the past 6 years. None from the 2006 draft has made it yet, but two of them are in the AHL as we speak (Carle & Valentenko) and could get a call up as early as this season. Both are probably the next ones to make it into the regular lineup, most likely as our 5th and 6th D-men.

Just for reference, Timmins' first draft with the team was 2003. He wasn't around to help Savard with the '01 and '02 classes.

IMO, our draft record improved a lot under Timmins... '01 made good use of the first 3 rounds, and '02 got us Higgins, but the rest of the players were forgettable. Starting in '03 we started getting late gems (Halak, Grabovski, Streit, D'Agostini, S Kostitsyn, Valentenko, etc) to complement the generally solid early picks.

[saskhab]

Interesting to note that in that lineup, 15 of the 20 players were homegrown talents for us. And that's even with 2 homegrown talents sitting out as scratches (Ryder, Brisebois).

[Wamsley01]

Yeah, it's kind of amazing how the mood has turned from despair to congratulations for Bob Gainey after one win.

But anyways, he has done a fairly good job drafting, esp. with Price (a pick that got a lot of heat but actually was superb) - but as has been mentioned previously, Savard drafted a lot of the team's current roster.

LOL. So true. But I think alot of the complaining would die down if he let this team run with the ball for the rest of the season.

Look at the guys who get ripped the most. Never the kids. O'Byrne makes a mistake and nobody loses it. Smolinski does and people go apeshit.

What you will find if we do run with the kids is either

A. People will be less critical or

B. Carbo would get blamed for everything giving most of the kids a free pass

My guess would be B

Edited December 14, 2007 by Wamsley01