ForumGhost Posted April 18, 2009 Share Posted April 18, 2009 Its plain to anyone that reads the news from his answers and to what has been said by gainey and Carbo about him. and Journalists that follow the team. Uh... Not really. If you can find some quotes to back you up... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MRHAB Posted April 18, 2009 Share Posted April 18, 2009 Uh... Not really. If you can find some quotes to back you up... umm no i dont have time to gather that. if your calling me a lier ignore my posts and move on. if i said that i read and heard it then its good enough. I am not in the habit of making stuff up and i really like the kid he will be a great goalie and he needs to clear his head. it was reported that he broke down last year under the pressure and then disappeared for the summer which i can understand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KEEP26 Posted April 18, 2009 Share Posted April 18, 2009 A good defense in front of him that can clear the puck from the front of the net... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir_Boagalott Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 Apparently Price needs to watch Halak win some games. Price seriously needs to learn from his mistakes. Actually all of the Habs need to figure out that they must learn from their mistakes, or they will be forever doomed to repeat them. None of them have a good track record so far this playoffs. In game 1 Price had the puck covered and a Bos guy jammed the puck free from under his trapper. In game 2 a similar thing almost happened. What pissed me off the most though was the Bos goal that Price was interfered with. To me it didnt look like Price made too much effort to stop the puck. Instead he chose to embelish the Bos players contact with him. However the "oh, he bumped me its a penalty, no need to stop the puck" mentality is useless. This is the NHL. The absolute priority is stop the god damn puck!! Period!! Let the refs work out any possible penalties after you make the save. After all its so much better to stop a goal that would be disallowed anyways than to not stop a goal that is allowed. Luongo did the same thing in the Ducks series the other year, but I bet Luongo learned from that experience. Has Price learned from last year, or game 1? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 They also need to get him a new goaltending coach. I think Melanson has done more harm then good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wamsley01 Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 (edited) They also need to get him a new goaltending coach. I think Melanson has done more harm then good. Outside of you sitting in on goalie meetings or being a professional goalie coach yourself and identifying the problems Price is having that could be directly correlated with poor coaching, you have no plausible reason to have reached that conclusion outside of grasping at straws. That same attitude would have resulted in Francois Allaire being fired in 1987 for ruining Patrick Roy. Meanwhile the outsider's simplistic assertion: Roy 1986 - GOOD, Roy 1987 - BAD fire the goaltender coach, would have missed the fact that Allaire/Roy were tearing down 20 years of bad habits and trying to rebuild the goaltender he would evolve into in 2 years. They were playing with teqhnique, equipment and molding arguably the greatest goaltender of all-time. Tiger Woods did the exact same thing. He won the Masters and spent the next 2 years breaking down his form and recreating a more efficient swing, all the while people wondering if he was just a one year wonder. Then he won the 1999 PGA Championship and the next year completed the Tiger Slam. So judging somebody's coaching with zero inside knowledge is an exercise in futility. Everybody tries to make things simple. Well it is simple, when the team plays well in front of him he will look good. People enjoy nothing more than piling on when things go wrong. Price reaches out for a puck and it is poked away, Darren Pang say unacceptable, he was to slow. Chris Mason reaches for the same puck and has it poked away, the Blues D was soft on the play. I am amazed at the rationalizations on the board to blame Price. THe bad goals he allows get the team down, and this causes the team to play poorly, resulting in Price getting bombarded with shots. So being outshot 3 out of every 4 games is on him? THe Habs have been outshot 35 times in his 49 starts, is this the way to insulate a 21 year old? Compare that to the wonder boy Steve Mason who has been outshot 26 times in 61 starts. Price 71% of his starts Halak 57% of his starts Mason 43% of his starts Is this the way to shelter a 21 year old? Everybody whines about Gainey ruining Price, complains about the development of him, become fearful he is Jim Carey. Who do you think is doing the most damage to the kid? Where do you think the stress in his life comes from? Could it be the media and fans who treat him like he should already be as good as Luongo at the age of 21? Everything here is blown out of proportion. Last season he came up at 20 and had a fantastic season and the season ends in frustration and disappointment because he didn't pull a Dryden/Roy! There are FOUR goalies (Roy, Fuhr, Beaupre and PRICE) in post expansion history who have won a playoff series at the age of 20 or less. ONE goaltender in post expansion history who won the Cup at 20 or less and three rookie goaltenders to win the Conn Smythe. Yet last year somehow morphed into a disappointment, and some began to fear the worst last summer. Can he come back? Is he ruined? I hope he is not like Marc Andre Fleury. All year people have been calling for Halak, give Halak a chance! Yet their GAA is virtually identical, there winning percentage is Price - .571% and Halak .561% and Halak has a .915 to Price's .905. So either both of these guys are responsible for this brutal year or they have been hung out to dry by a mediocre hockey team. This was the gamble Gainey took. Young goaltenders are inconsistent and Gainey believed the team he had last season was more likely to insulate the kids. There is NOTHING wrong with Price that maturity and familiarity will not fix. If he has any pride, he will hit the ice hard this summer and fix any flaws that he has accumulated over the season. Back to basics, do his homework on the shooters and reference his experience next time he struggles. If his numbers continue to slide next season, then you begin to become a little concnerned. Because at 22 many of the elite goaltenders began to improve and by 23-24 if Price looks as frazzled and lacks the confidence he does now, then maybe he is not as tough as they thought. Mason has been staggering to the finish line, but nobody has said a word. I would not be surprised if more struggles await him. History shows exactly this type of learning curve for EVERY young goaltender. It is the way the NHL works. But if he played in Montreal, somebody would bring up the fact that his SV% was .906 down the stretch and if he was playing like he did during the majority of the regular season the Jackets would not be down against the Wings. But the fact that he plays in Columbus, the story is covered in reality. He is a kid who is being shellacked by the defending champions. Firing Melanson will not magically cure Carey Price. The cure is a summer for him to work pressure free on his technique and confidence and a team that is not so brutally inept in their own zone to expose the kids to the wolves (ie. Media and fanbase). Temper expectations to the realm of reality. Just like everybody freaking out that the Habs are struggling in the playoffs. What did you expect? Go check the past 5 Stanley Cup winners and reference their record, their special teams, their goal differential, their 5 on 5 performance, their win% down the stretch. It will paint a pretty clear picture of where the Habs are headed. And it ain't the regular parade route. Don't eat your young. Let the kid breathe and mature. He is making mistakes, but I guess every 21 year old here was so confident that they knew how to deal with things like they do at 27-35. I guess the majority of 21 year olds on here had risen to become Presidents and CEOs mistake free with zero learning curve. Most 21 year olds I know don't know how to pay a bill, are either in school, or working a dead end job trying to figure out what they want to do or live at home and their priority is what club am I going to this weekend and how many beers will it take before I vomit. THIS IS NORMAL! Edited April 20, 2009 by Wamsley01 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 (edited) I agree with everything you say, Wamsley. But let's remember how Price was sold to everybody, by everyone from Gainey to the media to scouts - almost universally, except (ironically) Carbonneau, who turns out to have been absolutely right. But the hype was that this kid is the Sidney Crosby of goalies, a player of destiny, The Natural: a sure-fire superstar. If Crosby had gotten middling totals - say 20 goals and 55 points in his sophomore season, while not coming up especially big in the clutch - people would have attacked him in just the same way they're attacking Price. I'm not saying it's fair, but in the context of the mystique that was built around Price by a great many very knowledgable hockey people, it's understandable. On Gainey's gamble: correct, and that's another reason why this disastrous season is soooo unfortunate. First, we blow our best chance in years to contend. Second, the negativity makes it harder to re-sign UFAs and to attract new ones. And third, the terrible team play puts a very dangerous level of pressure on Price (I for one do not rule out the possibility of permanent damage to the young man's development). Frustrating. But the good news is it's almost over... Edited April 20, 2009 by The Chicoutimi Cucumber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 (edited) Outside of you sitting in on goalie meetings or being a professional goalie coach yourself and identifying the problems Price is having that could be directly correlated with poor coaching, you have no plausible reason to have reached that conclusion outside of grasping at straws. That same attitude would have resulted in Francois Allaire being fired in 1987 for ruining Patrick Roy. Meanwhile the outsider's simplistic assertion: Roy 1986 - GOOD, Roy 1987 - BAD fire the goaltender coach, would have missed the fact that Allaire/Roy were tearing down 20 years of bad habits and trying to rebuild the goaltender he would evolve into in 2 years. They were playing with teqhnique, equipment and molding arguably the greatest goaltender of all-time. Tiger Woods did the exact same thing. He won the Masters and spent the next 2 years breaking down his form and recreating a more efficient swing, all the while people wondering if he was just a one year wonder. Then he won the 1999 PGA Championship and the next year completed the Tiger Slam. So judging somebody's coaching with zero inside knowledge is an exercise in futility. Everybody tries to make things simple. Well it is simple, when the team plays well in front of him he will look good. People enjoy nothing more than piling on when things go wrong. Price reaches out for a puck and it is poked away, Darren Pang say unacceptable, he was to slow. Chris Mason reaches for the same puck and has it poked away, the Blues D was soft on the play. I am amazed at the rationalizations on the board to blame Price. THe bad goals he allows get the team down, and this causes the team to play poorly, resulting in Price getting bombarded with shots. So being outshot 3 out of every 4 games is on him? THe Habs have been outshot 35 times in his 49 starts, is this the way to insulate a 21 year old? Compare that to the wonder boy Steve Mason who has been outshot 26 times in 61 starts. Price 71% of his starts Halak 57% of his starts Mason 43% of his starts Is this the way to shelter a 21 year old? Everybody whines about Gainey ruining Price, complains about the development of him, become fearful he is Jim Carey. Who do you think is doing the most damage to the kid? Where do you think the stress in his life comes from? Could it be the media and fans who treat him like he should already be as good as Luongo at the age of 21? Everything here is blown out of proportion. Last season he came up at 20 and had a fantastic season and the season ends in frustration and disappointment because he didn't pull a Dryden/Roy! There are FOUR goalies (Roy, Fuhr, Beaupre and PRICE) in post expansion history who have won a playoff series at the age of 20 or less. ONE goaltender in post expansion history who won the Cup at 20 or less and three rookie goaltenders to win the Conn Smythe. Yet last year somehow morphed into a disappointment, and some began to fear the worst last summer. Can he come back? Is he ruined? I hope he is not like Marc Andre Fleury. All year people have been calling for Halak, give Halak a chance! Yet their GAA is virtually identical, there winning percentage is Price - .571% and Halak .561% and Halak has a .915 to Price's .905. So either both of these guys are responsible for this brutal year or they have been hung out to dry by a mediocre hockey team. This was the gamble Gainey took. Young goaltenders are inconsistent and Gainey believed the team he had last season was more likely to insulate the kids. There is NOTHING wrong with Price that maturity and familiarity will not fix. If he has any pride, he will hit the ice hard this summer and fix any flaws that he has accumulated over the season. Back to basics, do his homework on the shooters and reference his experience next time he struggles. If his numbers continue to slide next season, then you begin to become a little concnerned. Because at 22 many of the elite goaltenders began to improve and by 23-24 if Price looks as frazzled and lacks the confidence he does now, then maybe he is not as tough as they thought. Mason has been staggering to the finish line, but nobody has said a word. I would not be surprised if more struggles await him. History shows exactly this type of learning curve for EVERY young goaltender. It is the way the NHL works. But if he played in Montreal, somebody would bring up the fact that his SV% was .906 down the stretch and if he was playing like he did during the majority of the regular season the Jackets would not be down against the Wings. But the fact that he plays in Columbus, the story is covered in reality. He is a kid who is being shellacked by the defending champions. Firing Melanson will not magically cure Carey Price. The cure is a summer for him to work pressure free on his technique and confidence and a team that is not so brutally inept in their own zone to expose the kids to the wolves (ie. Media and fanbase). Temper expectations to the realm of reality. Just like everybody freaking out that the Habs are struggling in the playoffs. What did you expect? Go check the past 5 Stanley Cup winners and reference their record, their special teams, their goal differential, their 5 on 5 performance, their win% down the stretch. It will paint a pretty clear picture of where the Habs are headed. And it ain't the regular parade route. Don't eat your young. Let the kid breathe and mature. He is making mistakes, but I guess every 21 year old here was so confident that they knew how to deal with things like they do at 27-35. I guess the majority of 21 year olds on here had risen to become Presidents and CEOs mistake free with zero learning curve. Most 21 year olds I know don't know how to pay a bill, are either in school, or working a dead end job trying to figure out what they want to do or live at home and their priority is what club am I going to this weekend and how many beers will it take before I vomit. THIS IS NORMAL! The big difference i see in Price is that he is going down WAY more then he used to. When he came up, I saw a lot more Brodeur in him then Roy. From the way he handled the puck, to him being more of a fusion goalie (mix of butterfly and standup). Now he seems to be completely a butterfly goalie and the only reason for a change like that has to be the Goalie coach. Look at Brodeur, he made his own style and didn't become a complete butterfly goalie. Price is out of position WAY more then last year as well and has a hard time recovering - mainly becuase he always seems to be down and out the play at times. I think a goalie coach's job should be to toughen the kid up mentally and help him technically and play to his strengths and NOT change his style completely. When you have a young goalie and you start messing with what's made him successful, he is going to start second guessing himself a lot more and that is not going to do anything for his confidence. This is probably a poor example - becuase I couldn't stand Richard Sevigny and Dryden was my favourite player growing up. But after Dryden retired, for a brief time he did work with the habs goalies. However, Sevigny rejected his coaching becuase it didn't suit his game. I think Price needs to work with someone who has helped him get here (Kolzing and his dad are said to have been an influence), and he needs to standup and challenge the coaches as well - which can only come with more maturity. not everyone is as mature and confident as Brodeur was to find what works for him. In Price's case, I think they need someone who knows his style and he trusts more. Which is why I think Kolzig would be perfect for fit Price (i think he is pretty much done as a player??). I believe Kolzig also provided him some coaching when Price played for his junior team. Edited April 20, 2009 by hab29RETIRED Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wamsley01 Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 I agree with everything you say, Wamsley. But let's remember how Price was sold to everybody, by everyone from Gainey to the media to scouts - almost universally, except (ironically) Carbonneau, who turns out to have been absolutely right. But the hype was that this kid is the Sidney Crosby of goalies, a player of destiny, The Natural: a sure-fire superstar. If Crosby had gotten middling totals - say 20 goals and 55 points in his sophomore season, while not coming up especially big in the clutch - people would have attacked him in just the same way they're attacking Price. I'm not saying it's fair, but in the context of the mystique that was built around Price by a great many very knowledgable hockey people, it's understandable. On Gainey's gamble: correct, and that's another reason why this disastrous season is soooo unfortunate. First, we blow our best chance in years to contend. Second, the negativity makes it harder to re-sign UFAs and to attract new ones. And third, the terrible team play puts a very dangerous level of pressure on Price (I for one do not rule out the possibility of permanent damage to the young man's development). Frustrating. But the good news is it's almost over... The only problem I have with the comparison to Crosby is, there were centers who performed at an elite level at 18 years of age. If you look at stats alone, it says Roy improved from 1986-1987, but that was because he was playing behind the best defensive team in hockey and Roy was Hayward had superior statistics. In 1988, essentially identical again. I bought into the hype after the Bulldogs run, but I also was not devestated or did not admonish him or his ability when he reacted like your typical 20 year old against Philly. The pressure in Montreal is ridiculous, and with ZERO superstars to cushion the vitriol of the media he is a sitting duck. I don't think he will be permanently damaged as long as he stays committed. Hardwork and dedication will see him through. He is not good enough to carry a team right now, he needs support, and although one day he will be able to make a good team a contender, that time has not come. This team needs an enima. I hope Gainey has been taking notes, because he needs to figure out WHO will buy into a team game, and who will not. Until 100% of the team is committed to a system, this team will flounder, as will Price and Halak. The kid is a lightning bolt for criticism, and all the shortsighted attacks on him by the fanbase do not help the situation. If he comes out of the other side of this slump intact, LOOK OUT. Because he will have graduated from the school of hard knocks and things will roll of his back at 24. My fear is a rabid, uncontrolled fanbase comes to realize it while he is wearing another jersey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 This team needs an enima. I hope Gainey has been taking notes, because he needs to figure out WHO will buy into a team game, and who will not. Until 100% of the team is committed to a system, this team will flounder, as will Price and Halak. Presto. I *believe* that that's what Bob has been doing and that one reason for going behind the bench may have been to sharpern his judgement about the character of these young men going into a crucial off-season for the franchise. It'll be very interesting to see how he decides to proceed. Nobody knows better than Gainey the importance of a team game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 The only problem I have with the comparison to Crosby is, there were centers who performed at an elite level at 18 years of age. If you look at stats alone, it says Roy improved from 1986-1987, but that was because he was playing behind the best defensive team in hockey and Roy was Hayward had superior statistics. In 1988, essentially identical again. I bought into the hype after the Bulldogs run, but I also was not devestated or did not admonish him or his ability when he reacted like your typical 20 year old against Philly. The pressure in Montreal is ridiculous, and with ZERO superstars to cushion the vitriol of the media he is a sitting duck. I don't think he will be permanently damaged as long as he stays committed. Hardwork and dedication will see him through. He is not good enough to carry a team right now, he needs support, and although one day he will be able to make a good team a contender, that time has not come. This team needs an enima. I hope Gainey has been taking notes, because he needs to figure out WHO will buy into a team game, and who will not. Until 100% of the team is committed to a system, this team will flounder, as will Price and Halak. The kid is a lightning bolt for criticism, and all the shortsighted attacks on him by the fanbase do not help the situation. If he comes out of the other side of this slump intact, LOOK OUT. Because he will have graduated from the school of hard knocks and things will roll of his back at 24. My fear is a rabid, uncontrolled fanbase comes to realize it while he is wearing another jersey. I had actually said last year that Price should have had a full year in Hamilton. From what I saw of Halak the year before, I was hoping the habs would have let him and Huet fight it out for the starter role last year. I was pissed when 2 years ago Carbo went with Huet over Halak in the last game against Toronto. Goalies need more time then forwards to develop and it is a LOT rarer for a goalie to succeed as a 20 year old then it is for a forward. Having said that I also think the habs rushed in Ribeiro and Latendresse before they belonged in the league. Looks like Latendresse is coming into his own, but I think if he had the chance to dominate in Hamilton, he could have been further along in his development. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wamsley01 Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 The big difference i see in Price is that he is going down WAY more then he used to. When he came up, I saw a lot more Brodeur in him then Roy. From the way he handled the puck, to him being more of a fusion goalie (mix of butterfly and standup). Now he seems to be completely a butterfly goalie and the only reason for a change like that has to be the Goalie coach. Look at Brodeur, he made his own style and didn't become a complete butterfly goalie. Price is out of position WAY more then last year as well and has a hard time recovering - mainly becuase he always seems to be down and out the play at times. I think a goalie coach's job should be to toughen the kid up mentally and help him technically and play to his strengths and NOT change his style completely. When you have a young goalie and you start messing with what's made him successful, he is going to start second guessing himself a lot more and that is not going to do anything for his confidence. This is probably a poor example - becuase I couldn't stand Richard Sevigny and Dryden was my favourite player growing up. But after Dryden retired, for a brief time he did work with the habs goalies. However, Sevigny rejected his coaching becuase it didn't suit his game. I think Price needs to work with someone who has helped him get here (Kolzing and his dad are said to have been an influence), and he needs to standup and challenge the coaches as well - which can only come with more majority. not everyone is as mature and confident as Brodeur was to find what works for him. In Price's case, I think they need someone who knows his style and he trusts more. Which is why I think Kolzig would be perfect for fit Price (i think he is pretty much done as a player??). I believe Kolzig also provided him some coaching when Price played for his junior team. His technique was 100% fine from October to December. Then he got hurt, then he struggled upon return, then he lost confidence and began to overpursue and the struggles began. It all coincides with the Canadiens falling apart defensively. He needs to strip down his game and start from the bottom, but he does not have the time to accomplish this. Even when he has played well over the last 2 months, it is not the same goaltender I saw in Hamilton and Montreal in the second half last year. Also, Kolzig did not coach him during the seasons with Tri-City, so I don't know if he can be credited with all his early success. He is reacting to a situation like a kid would, the frustration is evident, from the bag tossing, to being on the verge of tears, he has probably never suffered any adversity in hockey like this season. Add in the league exposing his flaws, flaws that may have been ignored in junior and the AHL and you have the situation in front of you. Also, Kolzig is a pure butterfly goaltender, so I don't know how that helps in the pursuit of Price being a hybrid. But I never felt Price was a hybrid from what I saw in junior and the AHL playoffs. To me the thing that made him so unbelievable was his poise, his effortless lateral movement, his size and his close to flawless technique. In 3 years I have never seen him make a kick save, double pad stack or wait out guys while standing up. What I have noticed, is just like Roy, he struggles when he does not hold on his feet and drops to the butterfly to soon. Watch Roy in the 1989 Finals and you will see a goaltender who lost his technique ever so slightly, but it cost him a lot of goals, goals that ultimately were the difference between 4 Cups and 5. Roy apparently rejected Jacques Plante's teaching as well, and Plante claimed he would never make it in the NHL. If Price has the will to win like he says, you will see him bounce back next season. If he doesn't, then Gainey misjudged him and made a HUGE mistake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wamsley01 Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 (edited) I had actually said last year that Price should have had a full year in Hamilton. From what I saw of Halak the year before, I was hoping the habs would have let him and Huet fight it out for the starter role last year. I was pissed when 2 years ago Carbo went with Huet over Halak in the last game against Toronto. Goalies need more time then forwards to develop and it is a LOT rarer for a goalie to succeed as a 20 year old then it is for a forward. Having said that I also think the habs rushed in Ribeiro and Latendresse before they belonged in the league. Looks like Latendresse is coming into his own, but I think if he had the chance to dominate in Hamilton, he could have been further along in his development. I don't think being in Hamilton would have helped him. The Huet thing is what killed him. If the Habs had the luxury of keeping Huet, Price would have been a beneficiary. If he split the starts with Huet, Huet would still be seen as the STARTER, and Price would now be in the role of Halak. The guy fans look to when they are struggling, and the guy they would sympathize with when the team let him down. But once he was annointed the starter, HE became the lightning rod. Halak became the sympathetic hero. Look at last season. Huet/Price - equal stats, Huet got the blame for failure and Price the reward for success. This season - Price/Halak - equal stats, Price gets the blame for failure, Hallak the reward for success. It is why referring to tandems in the past is pointless. The cap system essentially stops teams from nurturing goaltenders. To save $, they have to invest in kids, but those kids need a support system to excel and be clear of the glaring spotlight. Think Perry/Getzlaf in 2007, kids whose contributions were integral, but who were ignored for blame when the Ducks lost. Now they are the leaders and they are ready for it. That is the ascension structure most teams covet. The veterans and youthful veterans (Pleks, HIggins, Komisarek) really exposed the kiddie corp and hence the disaster that sits before you. Edited April 20, 2009 by Wamsley01 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brobin Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 I don't think being in Hamilton would have helped him. The Huet thing is what killed him. If the Habs had the luxury of keeping Huet, Price would have been a beneficiary. If he split the starts with Huet, Huet would still be seen as the STARTER, and Price would now be in the role of Halak. The guy fans look to when they are struggling, and the guy they would sympathize with when the team let him down. But once he was annointed the starter, HE became the lightning rod. Halak became the sympathetic hero. Look at last season. Huet/Price - equal stats, Huet got the blame for failure and Price the reward for success. This season - Price/Halak - equal stats, Price gets the blame for failure, Hallak the reward for success. It is why referring to tandems in the past is pointless. The cap system essentially stops teams from nurturing goaltenders. To save $, they have to invest in kids, but those kids need a support system to excel and be clear of the glaring spotlight. Think Perry/Getzlaf in 2007, kids whose contributions were integral, but who were ignored for blame when the Ducks lost. The veterans and youthful veterans (Pleks, HIggins, Komisarek) really exposed the kiddie corp and hence the disaster that sits before you. This might be your best post ever. This gets to my key concern last year.. they pulled the safety net out from under Price. We had a top team (in theory) going into the playoffs and it was all on Price's shoulders. So when he faltered, the view was that we would have won against Philly "if not for Price". I always said, if we had Huet, even if Price was the starter in the playoffs, he would have played better. Think Cam Ward when he took over for Gerber.. no pressure, no expectations, and he rose to the occasion. Going into this year, it was clear that we could not afford Huet's price, but I had hoped that Gainey would have signed a decent vet to backup Price and mentor him. There is an old saying, you can never have too much goaltending. For the record, this is Gainey's mistake, not Price's. Now I look to Gainey to fix this and help Price get back to where he could be, in the future. I would see if we could get a vet backup next year. I do not want to see Price dumped, I think that is premature and unfair. If we can turn his game around, he could have a long and successful career with us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 Yes. I said at the time that Gainey should have kept Huet and lost him as a UFA (just as he should have traded Souray) rather than go into a playoff in which we actually had a chance to win with an unproven rookie goalie. The only credible argument for trading Huet in my mind was that Carbo was a Huet man and would not have given Price the necessary playoff experience. But this doesn't persuade me. That decision cost us a legitimate chance to reach the semi-finals. But regardless, he could not have re-signed Huet, so we'd be in the same pickle this season either way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wamsley01 Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 Yes. I said at the time that Gainey should have kept Huet and lost him as a UFA (just as he should have traded Souray) rather than go into a playoff in which we actually had a chance to win with an unproven rookie goalie. The only credible argument for trading Huet in my mind was that Carbo was a Huet man and would not have given Price the necessary playoff experience. But this doesn't persuade me. That decision cost us a legitimate chance to reach the semi-finals. But regardless, he could not have re-signed Huet, so we'd be in the same pickle this season either way. I was shocked when Gainey dealt Huet, but talked myself into it. Ulitmately I did not think the Cup was realistic last season, but I am beginning to believe that when you have a shot, you go for it. I thought the experience was necessary, especially for this season, the season I thought they were poised to take a real shot. Did they want to enter with a goaltender with ZERO experience? But, what's done is done. And I don't really care who is in net tonight. If Halak gives them a better opportunity, then you go with Halak. I think he is a little shell shocked right now, but he will be a rock when he matures because of it. Or he could turn into Jocelyn Thibault Take your pick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saskhab Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 As per Price/Melanson.... Price will eventually have to learn when to trust his instincts and when to stick to the foundation Melanson is laying for him. Melanson isn't telling Price to stay back in the crease for every single shot, as Millen seemed to imply earlier in the series when he said "I talked to Melanson and...". He wants him to start there. He wants him to be there more often than not. He wants him to focus on being there. Fact is, him being in the blue paint allowed Hnidy to beat him from such a long range. There are exceptions to every rule, and Price will only learn about them from experience. Odd man rushes have to be played differently than your typical offensive zone play. Some angles you need to challenge more often than others. He knows a lot of this instictively, but at the pace of NHL action, it's easy to get confused. It's like pitching in baseball, or quarterbacking in football. You need to understand the situation, and that only comes with experience. Melanson's responsibility is to give him a foundation to build off of. And he is doing that. As far as Gainey is concerned... at this point, the only reason I see for the Carbo firing is that Carbo simply wasn't the coach Gainey thought he was. Gainey is not a better coach than Carbo, nor does he think he is, but he is trying to decifer the kind of coach this team needs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 As far as Gainey is concerned... at this point, the only reason I see for the Carbo firing is that Carbo simply wasn't the coach Gainey thought he was. Gainey is not a better coach than Carbo, nor does he think he is, but he is trying to decifer the kind of coach this team needs. Carbo HAD to be fired because he lost the room. ANY coach has to be fired under those cicumstances. This calculation is so earth-shatteringly simple, and obvious, that all the subsequent hand-wringing just drives me crazy. (Whether Gainey is a 'better' coach than Carbo is hard to tell, but I suspect he is). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir_Boagalott Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 Price reaches out for a puck and it is poked away, Darren Pang say unacceptable, he was to slow. Chris Mason reaches for the same puck and has it poked away, the Blues D was soft on the play. I didnt see the C Mason take away, but I saw Prices. I'm not super pissed at Price that it happened, once, but he needs to learn from that experience and from what I saw in game 2 he hadnt learned anything because the same thing almost happened again. The mind set of "oh thats not allowed so I dont have to worry aboot somebody doing that" is useless and highly unprofessional. This might be a surprise to some of you but Bettman and his NHL love Bullshit. Ever heard the expression fool me once, shame on me, fool me twice shame on you? Price needs to learn from that puck poking away incident. Price needs to realize that refs will allow stuff thats not allowed but only Price allows it to happen. Seeing how the Habs are Price probably isnt aware that there are players in the NHL that desperately want to win and therefore will do whatever it takes to win, even if it not nescessarily allowed. There is definitely a grey area in some of the rules in which players will use to their advantage. Price has to be the one who is fully aware of this and take extra precautions when handling the puck. Like it or not but Darren Pang is absolutely correct. It was unacceptable. Do you really beleive that Price had all his weight on the puck? or did he just cover the puck with his glove? Also when the puck is in front of a goalie like that they should lean over the puck or use their other forearm/elbow to help cover and protect the puck. Price did none of these things exept cover the puck. If Price had have put all of his wieght on his glove hand than the puck most likely would have remained in his glove. Similarly like I said aboot goalie interference. The absolute most important thing is to stop the puck first and foremost, then after making the save embelish the contact. You cant quit on the play and allow a goal because you are being interfered with because goalie interference happens on lots of goals that are allowed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wamsley01 Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 I didnt see the C Mason take away, but I saw Prices. I'm not super pissed at Price that it happened, once, but he needs to learn from that experience and from what I saw in game 2 he hadnt learned anything because the same thing almost happened again. The mind set of "oh thats not allowed so I dont have to worry aboot somebody doing that" is useless and highly unprofessional. This might be a surprise to some of you but Bettman and his NHL love Bullshit. Ever heard the expression fool me once, shame on me, fool me twice shame on you? Price needs to learn from that puck poking away incident. Price needs to realize that refs will allow stuff thats not allowed but only Price allows it to happen. Seeing how the Habs are Price probably isnt aware that there are players in the NHL that desperately want to win and therefore will do whatever it takes to win, even if it not nescessarily allowed. There is definitely a grey area in some of the rules in which players will use to their advantage. Price has to be the one who is fully aware of this and take extra precautions when handling the puck. Like it or not but Darren Pang is absolutely correct. It was unacceptable. Do you really beleive that Price had all his weight on the puck? or did he just cover the puck with his glove? Also when the puck is in front of a goalie like that they should lean over the puck or use their other forearm/elbow to help cover and protect the puck. Price did none of these things exept cover the puck. If Price had have put all of his wieght on his glove hand than the puck most likely would have remained in his glove. Similarly like I said aboot goalie interference. The absolute most important thing is to stop the puck first and foremost, then after making the save embelish the contact. You cant quit on the play and allow a goal because you are being interfered with because goalie interference happens on lots of goals that are allowed. The whole point is that Darren Pang felt the need to criticize Price, but nobody mentioned the fact that Schneider did not cover Kessel and didn't even know he was there. Mike Boone felt the need to mention Price's involvement in the play as well, yet not Schneider. Why? Because it is the simple thing to do. Everybody is already on top, pile on. We built him up, lets rip him down. Nothing like ANALYZING the play, something these people are PAID to do. But when it is Chris Mason, why rip Chris Mason? Who cares? He is a 30+ year old journeyman on a team that nobody cares is in the playoffs. Same act, different result. All I am pointing out. His struggles are magnified, as are his accomplishments. I was simply pointing out the fact that he is at the beginning of his learning curve and these errors are to be expected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habsfan Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 (edited) I find it funny that soo many people put so much emphasis on the 1st goal allowed in game one(the one that got away). Shit happens move on! I'm a little more peeved by the 3rd goal allowed by Price in Saturday night's game. Just before that, Kovy had scored and the habs had the momentum. Price should have stopped that one. You could see that it totally killed the Habs! after that it was game over! Edited April 20, 2009 by Habsfan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wamsley01 Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 (edited) I find it funny that soo many people put so much emphasis on the 1st goal allowed in game one(the one that got away). Shit happens move on! I'm a little more peeved by the 3rd goal allowed by Price in Saturday night's game. Just before that, Kovy had scored and the habs had the momentum. Price should have stopped that one. You could see that it totally killed the Habs! after that it was game over! But why is it that 1 goal can be blamed on a weak minded team collapse? Last years team was down 5-1 and won 6-5. They got past Price's poor start, they did this all last season. But now a bad goal breaks their will? And instead of exposing the weak mental makeup the blame falls at the feet of Price. This team is flawed all the way through, one goal was not their undoing. An unwillingness to go to the tough zones did, a refusal to be first to the puck, a lack of discipline and zero transition game because their best player is out. But instead of viewing the series through the understanding that their flaws are more exposed with one legit puck moving defenseman, it is dropped on the shoulders of a 21 year old. Thomas is being treated by the media as a saviour, and he is up 2-0 and has done essentially nothing. Even when the Habs were up 3-1 Price had to win 2 of 3 nailbiters last season. If the Habs insulated him like the Bruins do their goaltenders, Price would be severely overrated right now. The media will get their piece of flesh and will follow his ups and downs and overrate him when he plays well, and underrate him when he does not. It is what they do best. Hockey is a team game and a goalie can help put a team over the top, but NO goalie has done it alone. The Habs no showed half a season, so why should we be surprised that they have no showed 1 of their 2 playoff games? Edited April 20, 2009 by Wamsley01 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 Exactly, the facts simply are they are the 4th worst team in the league since just before the all star break. That isn't the fault of 1 player. Msrkov wouldn't have made much of a difference, they lost 5 straight with him against the Bruins. As Wamsley points out, there are flaws everywhere. Everyone last year had carreer years, this year i don't think any one has. Lapierre played well, Markov was good offensvely, defensively he took a big step back this year. know one else even earned there contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir_Boagalott Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 The whole point is that Darren Pang felt the need to criticize Price, but nobody mentioned the fact that Schneider did not cover Kessel and didn't even know he was there. Mike Boone felt the need to mention Price's involvement in the play as well, yet not Schneider. .... All I am pointing out. His struggles are magnified, as are his accomplishments. I was simply pointing out the fact that he is at the beginning of his learning curve and these errors are to be expected. I dont blame Scneider at all for that goal. Why do you think Schneider should be responsible for protecting the covered puck that was under Prices glove? You can use the learning curve buzz word all you want. You will never get me to beleive that was the 1st time that Price has ever been poked when he's had the puck. That is clearly something he should already know. Most goalies in Atom would know this. I'm positive that theres quite a few goalies on this board who came nowhere close to making the NHL who all know that opposing forwards will poke at the goalie when the goalie has the puck. I find it funny that soo many people put so much emphasis on the 1st goal allowed in game one(the one that got away). Shit happens move on! I'm a little more peeved by the 3rd goal allowed by Price in Saturday night's game. Just before that, Kovy had scored and the habs had the momentum. Price should have stopped that one. You could see that it totally killed the Habs! after that it was game over! Theres nothing funny aboot it though. People say he's young, inexperienced, learning curve etc, but thats bunk. I'm pretty sure Philly scored at least one similar goal on him in rnd 2 last year (if not 2). I guess in next year playoffs when it happens again it wont be a big deal either. The 3rd goal allowed by Price in Saturday night's game IMO wasnt totally his fault. Yes Price probably should have saved it, but the Habs D were useless and just keep backing up giving Bos more time and space for the 3rd guy to show up and shoot the puck that was just sitting there for several seconds until that 3rd Bos player showed up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wamsley01 Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 I dont blame Scneider at all for that goal. Why do you think Schneider should be responsible for protecting the covered puck that was under Prices glove? You can use the learning curve buzz word all you want. You will never get me to beleive that was the 1st time that Price has ever been poked when he's had the puck. That is clearly something he should already know. Most goalies in Atom would know this. I'm positive that theres quite a few goalies on this board who came nowhere close to making the NHL who all know that opposing forwards will poke at the goalie when the goalie has the puck. Theres nothing funny aboot it though. People say he's young, inexperienced, learning curve etc, but thats bunk. I'm pretty sure Philly scored at least one similar goal on him in rnd 2 last year (if not 2). I guess in next year playoffs when it happens again it wont be a big deal either. The 3rd goal allowed by Price in Saturday night's game IMO wasnt totally his fault. Yes Price probably should have saved it, but the Habs D were useless and just keep backing up giving Bos more time and space for the 3rd guy to show up and shoot the puck that was just sitting there for several seconds until that 3rd Bos player showed up. If Schneider picked up Kessel instead of looking down at the puck, there would have been no goal and we would not be discussing this right now. Plenty of goaltenders have pucks poked beyond their reach and a defenseman is there to pick it up. It is called competent defensive zone coverage. I didn't say he needed to learn how to cover a puck, I said he is blamed because he is the number one goalie for the Montreal Canadiens and has been hyped as the next Roy since he lead the Bulldogs to the CAlder. As for him being young. It isn't bunk, it is a fact. Go find me a list of 21 year old goaltenders who won in the playoffs. It is a small list and a lot of great goaltenders are not on it. Swap Thomas for Price and tell me Thomas would be putting up 2,10 GAA and a ,930+ SV%. No chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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