Permanent Rumour Thread

[BTH]

Setting aside the question of fitting a new acquisition under the cap for this season, it's the very fact that we could lose any or all of those four that suggests to me that it's a good idea to add more quality D now, if we can do so. Like I said, it helps us now and gives us more options going forward.

That was the Wisniewski trade. I've never seen a GM make the same move twice a month apart.

Your suggestion hinges on the assumption that Montreal risks losing 4 of its top 6 d-men. I think the Habs will be able to sign any of those players if they want to. I really don't see these four walking and leaving our D in ruins as a serious risk. All four want to stay in Montreal and Montreal could use any one of them on its team. It just comes down to which combination is the best and most affordable.

Absolutely true Chicoutimi,

seeing our present D-core all dandy-rosie is ludicrous.

1)Hammer wants at least 4 mil a year if he has to play like the first Dman again so my guess is "Bye bye"

2)Wiz will want 4mil a year and if PG can't sign him now before the season is over then chances are that its "bye bye"

3)If Markov isn't upset with Mtl he may sign with a hometown discount for around 4mil a year, otherwise Washington will have him

4)Gill needs to sign for no more than 1.6mil and add more good Dmen

A player like Regehr or any other number 4 dman wants to play in a team where he is number 4! not number 6 nor number 1 (if he is paid like a number 4). So I see adding another Dman like this can only aid us with this season AND the next.

You do not know that Hammer wants that much. I think he could be signed for 3-3.5M and I wouldn't mind him at that price.

Habs will have trouble bringing ALL FOUR back but I think they'll manage to bring 2 or 3 back. Wisniewski, I think, is the least likely to return.

[CoRvInA]

I repeat, If he has to, or wants to play in a team as a first pairing Dman (i.e. around 25 min a game) he or at the very least his agent will want more than 4 mil a season. no doubt

if the Habs sign other top pairing Dmen (Markov + Wiz and say regher etc) or Hammer is looking for a long term deal without the high responsibility of a first pairing D all 82 games, then in theory he could ask for less then 4mil. It depends what role Hammer wants or is prepared to give

[hab29RETIRED]

Never know with Martin. Subban was our 7th D (benched) for 5 games so far this season.

I kind of meant Weber top 7, Subban a bit higher. Either way, both must be in the line up next year.

edit - and right now you could argue that Subban is #5 behind Markov, Wiz, Gorges and Hamrlik but whatever, it doesn't really make a difference. Subban will be back next season; these guys might not be.

If Subban isn't among the top three next year (even considering the sophmore jinx a lot of players go through), I would be VERY surprised.

Edited February 3, 2011 by hab29RETIRED

[hab29RETIRED]

Setting aside the question of fitting a new acquisition under the cap for this season, it's the very fact that we could lose any or all of those four that suggests to me that it's a good idea to add more quality D now, if we can do so. Like I said, it helps us now and gives us more options going forward.

I think we should resign Markov and Wiz, but unless Hammer signs a 1 year deal under $2M, I wouldn't want the other two.

He cleared waivers.

I would have been surprised if he didn't - he's scored what, 1 goal in 3 or 4 years??? Perfect example of the kind of player who has no place in the game.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

I think we should resign Markov and Wiz, but unless Hammer signs a 1 year deal under $2M, I wouldn't want the other two.

I would have been surprised if he didn't - he's scored what, 1 goal in 3 or 4 years??? Perfect example of the kind of player who has no place in the game.

Myself, I think it would be folly to enter 2011-12 with Markov and Subban as our top-2 defencemen. Like it or not, the probability is that Markov will either be a diminished version of himself OR get injured again. You cannot then fall back on Hammer to play 26 minutes a night. And Subban, while he looks like a can't miss kid, will be a sophomore and probably still have ups and downs. This makes either signing Wiz or signing another player of comparable quality a must. BTH's scenario of the status quo MINUS Wiz and maybe Gill isn't an option for a serious team in my book. Therefore, again: if we have the chance to bag another top-4 defenceman, we should do it.

[JoeLassister]

Never know with Martin. Subban was our 7th D (benched) for 5 games so far this season.

I kind of meant Weber top 7, Subban a bit higher. Either way, both must be in the line up next year.

edit - and right now you could argue that Subban is #5 behind Markov, Wiz, Gorges and Hamrlik but whatever, it doesn't really make a difference. Subban will be back next season; these guys might not be.

Sure we could argue. IMO, Subban will be ranked higher than Wiz by the coaching staff as soon as in 20 games, playoffs or not.

[CoRvInA]

Myself, I think it would be folly to enter 2011-12 with Markov and Subban as our top-2 defencemen. Like it or not, the probability is that Markov will either be a diminished version of himself OR get injured again. You cannot then fall back on Hammer to play 26 minutes a night. And Subban, while he looks like a can't miss kid, will be a sophomore and probably still have ups and downs. This makes either signing Wiz or signing another player of comparable quality a must. BTH's scenario of the status quo MINUS Wiz and maybe Gill isn't an option for a serious team in my book. Therefore, again: if we have the chance to bag another top-4 defenceman, we should do it.

Indeed

I think Gill has earned his spot. Especially now that PK performs much better when paired with him. PK needs to spend another year NOT as a top pairing D, and with Gill, why not. Therefor, Markov needs a top Pairing partner; Wiz or someone else perhaps even Gorges?

This means we require another top pairing Dman to fix Spacek's mistakes and take over if Markov or the other top D man is hurt. I for one don't think Hammer is up for that again... and if he were he would have to sign at a discount price. no way we can fit him at +4mill a season

Markov - Wiz or (Top 2-4 D for around 4 mil that can play +23 min) this may vary if Markov signs cheap

Gorges - (Top 4 D under 4mil can play 20 min) or *Spacek*

Gill-PK

Weber

*Spacek* needs to go. Unless we have such depth in our D, that Spacek can be utilized for 15min per game tops. This means we have kept: Markov, Wiz and either Hammer or acquired another top 4 D for next season. Yet again if the team does not keep Gill, Spacek might play with PK and more importantly play Spacek on THE LEFT!!!.

Edited February 3, 2011 by CoRvInA

[illWill]

IMO, our top 4 should be and has to be Markov, Subban, The Wiz and Georges. That would be a pretty sick starting point on defense, the rest will fall into place accordingly.

[saskhab]

It'd be really nice if we could find a way to sign someone for one year at a reduced rate somewhere just so we can keep Hamrlik around. Heck, it'd be nice if that player was Roman himself. We've still got fourty or so (hopefully more) games to evaluate this team's D on going forward, so I think it's best to hold on a bit before making conclusions. Right now, my main concern is our depth heading into the playoffs... not sure we can handle another injury to our top 4.

[Chris]

Except 3 of the 4 are RD.

The decision should be Gorges or Weber. I believe Wis and Subban are no brainers for the top 2 RD's on the team. They have Spacek under contract and will be a bottom pair LD.

PG definitely has his work cut out for him on the D. 4 of the top players including Markov are UFA's.

[bar]

It'd be really nice if we could find a way to sign someone for one year at a reduced rate somewhere just so we can keep Hamrlik around. Heck, it'd be nice if that player was Roman himself. We've still got fourty or so (hopefully more) games to evaluate this team's D on going forward, so I think it's best to hold on a bit before making conclusions. Right now, my main concern is our depth heading into the playoffs... not sure we can handle another injury to our top 4.

hehe we've already taken 2 hits to our top 4, so our current top 4 is really our top 6, losing one of the current top 4 would be like being without 3 of your top 4, not many teams can combat that.

Edited February 3, 2011 by bar

[saskhab]

hehe we've already taken 2 hits to our top 4, so our current top 4 is really our top 6, losing one of the current top 4 would be like being without 3 of your top 4, not many teams can combat that.

Well, we did replace one of those two missing top 4 guys. It'd be nice to have the same # of potential top 4 players as we did at the start of the season. Our PK has taken quite a hit without Markov and Gorges... Wiz can't play the PK.

A quiet player like a Jan Hejda would be a good add. But I'm not sure who is out there.

[dlbalr]

From TSN this morning:

Prior to the Florida-Montreal game Wednesday night, Panthers GM Dale Tallon and Canadiens GM Pierre Gauthier reportedly spent considerable time chatting, sparking trade speculation.

Tallon tells The Dreger Report that no groundwork for a blockbuster was laid. He says they spent most of their time discussing the state of the game and some of things they expect to deal with at next month's general managers meetings.

No groundwork for a blockbuster was laid...doesn't mean a minor deal couldn't have been discussed theoretically. Still though, that ought to debunk the Weiss rumours for now.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/dregerreport/

[saskhab]

The Dreger Report.

[BTH]

Myself, I think it would be folly to enter 2011-12 with Markov and Subban as our top-2 defencemen. Like it or not, the probability is that Markov will either be a diminished version of himself OR get injured again. You cannot then fall back on Hammer to play 26 minutes a night. And Subban, while he looks like a can't miss kid, will be a sophomore and probably still have ups and downs. This makes either signing Wiz or signing another player of comparable quality a must. BTH's scenario of the status quo MINUS Wiz and maybe Gill isn't an option for a serious team in my book. Therefore, again: if we have the chance to bag another top-4 defenceman, we should do it.

At the start of the season, our D was a strength. If the same D is brought back next year - and remains healthy - then they'll be solid. But now they also have Wisniewski in the mix who would be an upgrade on Hamrlik/Gill if he can be afforded (not to mention that they have an improved Subban and Weber).

Markov-Wisniewski

Hamrlik/Gill-Subban

Spacek-Gorges

Weber

is really solid in my books. They could use a rental d-man for the rest of the season because Gorges and Markov are injured right now but if we know he's going to be rental, I don't see why we should give up much for him.

[BlueKross]

I think you have to wait almost to the deadline because it isn't clear where we should place are marbles. K. Romo name has come up as a trading chip, but you would be limited to who you could trade him to. His value should be higher next year. I would consider taking Sourray or even Redden if they came cheap enough. I not sure who I want as an add on forward.

[dlbalr]

I think you have to wait almost to the deadline because it isn't clear where we should place are marbles. K. Romo name has come up as a trading chip, but you would be limited to who you could trade him to. His value should be higher next year. I would consider taking Sourray or even Redden if they came cheap enough. I not sure who I want as an add on forward.

You want to add Redden, who has 3 years and $6.5 million per year left on his deal, despite the fact he's a 2nd pairing d-man...in the AHL? Souray is one thing, a shorter deal and most at least feel he's still NHL calibre, but Redden? The Rangers would need to be sending several top picks/prospects before I'd bite on him.

[lazy26]

I think you have to wait almost to the deadline because it isn't clear where we should place are marbles. K. Romo name has come up as a trading chip, but you would be limited to who you could trade him to. His value should be higher next year. I would consider taking Sourray or even Redden if they came cheap enough. I not sure who I want as an add on forward.

Mr. Sather, we've done enough for you by taking Gomez of your hands. Leave us alone!

[BlueKross]

Mr. Sather, we've done enough for you by taking Gomez of your hands. Leave us alone!

I agree with this statement. When I talked about Sourray and Redden I am talking about the type of player I am looking for, a veteran on the cheap. Obviously Redden's contract eliminates him unless you wind up with some prospects. You can't expect to geta #1 or #2 unless your prepared to give up significant assets. I would argue that one may consider both Sourray and Redden #3 or #4 potential in a short run. Do you know of any #3 or #4 you can get that you don't have to trade away your first born? I thought not.

[dlbalr]

I agree with this statement. When I talked about Sourray and Redden I am talking about the type of player I am looking for, a veteran on the cheap. Obviously Redden's contract eliminates him unless you wind up with some prospects. You can't expect to geta #1 or #2 unless your prepared to give up significant assets. I would argue that one may consider both Sourray and Redden #3 or #4 potential in a short run. Do you know of any #3 or #4 you can get that you don't have to trade away your first born? I thought not.

The thing is, Redden's barely a #3 d-man playing for the Connecticut Whale; heck, the fans there have booed him at times. He's not an NHL defenceman anymore. If this was the last year of his deal, perhaps you could do worse but 3 more years? He'll make Gomez look underpaid. Souray is at least palatable which is why I didn't go on about that one - the only thing is, he can't fit under the cap without some current Habs going the other way. That's not overly desirable either. If Edmonton were willing to take Spacek back for Souray (and both waive their NTC's), I'd strongly consider that.

(Yes, I grant that Redden has the most D points on the Whale but looking at their blueline, he should too.)

[BlueKross]

The thing is, Redden's barely a #3 d-man playing for the Connecticut Whale; heck, the fans there have booed him at times. He's not an NHL defenceman anymore. If this was the last year of his deal, perhaps you could do worse but 3 more years? He'll make Gomez look underpaid. Souray is at least palatable which is why I didn't go on about that one - the only thing is, he can't fit under the cap without some current Habs going the other way. That's not overly desirable either. If Edmonton were willing to take Spacek back for Souray (and both waive their NTC's), I'd strongly consider that.

I'm not disagreeing with you. What are you prepared to give up for what, seems to me to be the question of the day.

[dlbalr]

I'm not disagreeing with you. What are you prepared to give up for what, seems to me to be the question of the day.

It is and it isn't - I'm not prepared to pay the Regehr price if I were GM. That doesn't mean I'd go after Redden though. If I were in charge, I'd be looking at a bottom pairing type d-man who can give Spacek and Weber the odd night off. At the deadline, said d-man would cost around a 4th round pick. I'd save as much space as possible to try and bring in another forward.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

At the start of the season, our D was a strength. If the same D is brought back next year - and remains healthy - then they'll be solid. But now they also have Wisniewski in the mix who would be an upgrade on Hamrlik/Gill if he can be afforded (not to mention that they have an improved Subban and Weber).

Markov-Wisniewski

Hamrlik/Gill-Subban

Spacek-Gorges

Weber

is really solid in my books. They could use a rental d-man for the rest of the season because Gorges and Markov are injured right now but if we know he's going to be rental, I don't see why we should give up much for him.

If the scenario is that we only lose Gill AND re-sign Wiz, then as much as I value Gill, you're right.

If the scenario is that we lose 'only' Hammer and re-sign Wiz, then I think that represents a significant loss to the overall D-corps, although perhaps not a crippling one provided everyone else stays healthy - which in Markov's case is a gigantic proviso.

If the scenario is that we fail to re-sign Wiz AND one or more of the above, then I think our D is seriously compromised, especially given the likelihood of Markov getting hurt and/or being damaged goods.

Therefore, it would still be better to acquire another top-4 defenceman if that can be done, especially if that guy is an upgrade on the declining Hamrlik. This allows us to release both Gill and Hammer without serious cost, or else letting Wiz walk if he can't be re-signed. The goal, after all, is to get better, not simply to accept a 'status quo-minus' version of the current D.

[BlueKross]

I looked at Reddens numbers. Ouch! He would have to come at half price. I wonder if he is just pissed at where he is. The question is is he that bad or is he putting in effort that he thinks befits his situation. On the Sourray front,could we not suggest that Edmonton stick him back through waiver and if he gets to us we give them Carle. They save themselves half his salary and get a prospect to boot. Of course somebody else could pick him off, and they lose out on prospect. I think that would make it more palatable for us. Edmonton is not going to make post season, so it doesn't matter where he goes.

[BTH]

If the scenario is that we only lose Gill AND re-sign Wiz, then as much as I value Gill, you're right.

If the scenario is that we lose 'only' Hammer and re-sign Wiz, then I think that represents a significant loss to the overall D-corps, although perhaps not a crippling one provided everyone else stays healthy - which in Markov's case is a gigantic proviso.

If the scenario is that we fail to re-sign Wiz AND one or more of the above, then I think our D is seriously compromised, especially given the likelihood of Markov getting hurt and/or being damaged goods.

Therefore, it would still be better to acquire another top-4 defenceman if that can be done, especially if that guy is an upgrade on the declining Hamrlik. This allows us to release both Gill and Hammer without serious cost, or else letting Wiz walk if he can't be re-signed. The goal, after all, is to get better, not simply to accept a 'status quo-minus' version of the current D.

You value Hammer over Wiz?

If the Habs bring back Wiz, Markov and Gill and Markov plays 55 games, then I think they'd still have one of the stronger Ds in the East. I think the time to try making a significant upgrade would be in the summer, not now. Like Brian said, I think it's more likely they pick up a veteran #6 or 7 for a late pick. And maybe do the same thing at the forward position.