Permanent Rumour Thread

[DON]

Just pointing out that bold moves can just as easily turn out poorly as well. From what Bergevin has shown us so far, I don't rate his judgment very favourably. Actually, the main positive that he's shown is patience.

I'm not arguing against big trades, because they're important in building any contender. Same with big signings. But big moves are not inherently good. And I seriously doubt that he or any NHL GM is afraid to make bold moves - it's a silly line of thought.

As for Bergevin being 'smarter than the other guy' - I'll believe it when I see it.

This is the predominant attitude of Habfans, but but what if Eller scores 40goals/year and Kesler gets run over by a bus the day after trade.

Sometimes you got to say screw it and pull the trigger and don't care if a fan favorite is shipped out, or very risky trade may undermine this years playoff success.

Hab mgmt. has been nickel and diming to pick up a Sopel-Mara types to ensure "just making' playoffs, when a longer term outlook was needed and Koivu-Kovalev-Souray could of brought back 'good stuff' to help build on.

But that would of meant being a seller at deadline, which the Habs have only done once in 20 years (and even Hal Gill-Andrai K brought good returns).

But, what would we do without our old #2 d-man, we will be screwed.........who will fill his skates (Habs have managed with #79 missing before)? And no one can right away, simply let chips fall where..and have Beaulieu play with Emelin and let Tinordi/Pateryn play with Murray and hope for the best.

That may be part of the price to pay to help contend in 2015 and 2016 and clear up cap space for All-Star UFA forward pick-up in summer.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

This is the predominant attitude of Habfans, but but what if Eller scores 40goals/year and Kesler gets run over by a bus the day after trade.

Kesler already is the equivalent of a guy run over by a bus. He's damaged goods.

If we're talking about creating a package to get Ryan O'Reilly, Evander Kane, Blake Wheeler or Kyle Okposo and trading Eller in the package? Now you got my attention for a trade that's worth it.

I have my doubts on Kesler playing hockey beyond age 32.

[habs rule]

This is the predominant attitude of Habfans, but but what if Eller scores 40goals/year and Kesler gets run over by a bus the day after trade.

Sometimes you got to say screw it and pull the trigger and don't care if a fan favorite is shipped out, or very risky trade may undermine this years playoff success.

Hab mgmt. has been nickel and diming to pick up a Sopel-Mara types to ensure "just making' playoffs, when a longer term outlook was needed and Koivu-Kovalev-Souray could of brought back 'good stuff' to help build on.

But that would of meant being a seller at deadline, which the Habs have only done once in 20 years (and even Hal Gill-Andrai K brought good returns).

But, what would we do without our old #2 d-man, we will be screwed.........who will fill his skates (Habs have managed with #79 missing before)? And no one can right away, simply let chips fall where..and have Beaulieu play with Emelin and let Tinordi/Pateryn play with Murray and hope for the best.

That may be part of the price to pay to help contend in 2015 and 2016 and clear up cap space for All-Star UFA forward pick-up in summer.

Don I think we have won you over to our side Tading Markov may hurt in the short term, that I don't doubt but we HAVE lived without him for almost 2 years, and right now he don't look so good. I think that this may be the last year of getting a good return for Markov, and don't underestimate his value to a playoff team or a sound defensive team that needs a pp quarterback. Tey have very real value. 40 year old former offensive players not so much. See Jagr. Still playing great and not worth much. We will have to maybe lose a little short term for the long term good. We cannot keep making petty ante moves just to make the playoffs, I agree with you whole heartedly.

[habs rule]

Just pointing out that bold moves can just as easily turn out poorly as well. From what Bergevin has shown us so far, I don't rate his judgment very favourably. Actually, the main positive that he's shown is patience.

I'm not arguing against big trades, because they're important in building any contender. Same with big signings. But big moves are not inherently good. And I seriously doubt that he or any NHL GM is afraid to make bold moves - it's a silly line of thought.

As for Bergevin being 'smarter than the other guy' - I'll believe it when I see it.

I know where you are coming from and basically I agree but if there is no risk then generally speaking there is no reward. We are at a stage where taking a risk may be the best move for us, and imho while trading Markov and Gionta may hurt short we should win long term. As to MB while he hasn't done much or enough in opinion he hasn't really hurt us. OK Briere but that the guy who sells beer who wanted that deal. So the owner should stick to the beer leave the hockey to the experts.

[illWill]

As to MB while he hasn't done much or enough in opinion he hasn't really hurt us. OK Briere but that the guy who sells beer who wanted that deal. So the owner should stick to the beer leave the hockey to the experts.

Are you drunk?

[illWill]

potential
 

po·ten·tial
[puh-ten-shuhl]

adjective

1.

possible, as opposed to actual: the potential uses of nuclear energy.

2.

capable of being or becoming: a potential danger to safety.

3.

Grammar . expressing possibility: the potential subjunctive in Latin; the potential use of can in I can go

noun

5.

possibility; potentiality: an investment that has little growth potential.

6.

a latent excellence or ability that may or may not be developed.

I just want to throw the definition of potential out there for anyone banking on the fact that trading for young picks or players automatically equates to success.

[BlueKross]

There is always a risk when you make a trade, but I think there is a greater risk if you stand still. The old adage --- trying and failing trumps not trying.

[DON]

Kesler already is the equivalent of a guy run over by a bus. He's damaged goods.

If we're talking about creating a package to get Ryan O'Reilly, Evander Kane, Blake Wheeler or Kyle Okposo and trading Eller in the package? Now you got my attention for a trade that's worth it.

I have my doubts on Kesler playing hockey beyond age 32.

You did see him play this morning eh? He looks like regualr 29 year old to me? But, he is just best example of 'A DEAL' that would reshaape top 6, you can toss out a couple dozen names that might work, i am just stuck on Kesler or Byfuglien for the moment.

Kesler will not be 33 till 4 seasons from now.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Again, Kesler has become basically a 50-point player. 25-30 goals, but 50 points. Keep that in mind. Not saying not to go get him, necessarily; but he ain't the guy that scared the crap out of me on Team USA four years ago any longer.

I'll admit, I don't even know exactly what we're arguing over in this thread anymore :bonk:I'm saying we need to do more than stand pat and fiddle at the margins of the roster. Surely this isn't all that controversial - ?!?

[Lovett's Magnatones]

What stinks for Bergevin, taking over, is that he probably envisioned another top-5 pick. We over achieved last year, and we're right back in the mess we've been mired in forever. A perennial number 6-8. The only piece we really have to get a franchise changing deal done is Subban.

Subban + Eller + 1st

Giroux + Simmonds + Coburn

Not saying I would do it, but that's the kind of trade we're looking at if the goal is to contend in two years

[DON]

I just don't see as a mess at all, nor see any real need to even trade anyone.

And I doubt Bergevin will do much at all and don't see that as a dumb play.

They traded away picks during past mgmt and have done well in past 2-3 drafts, but the first bunch has just reached AHL level and over the next couple years, numerous more skilled and character kids will be turning pro and coming to Hamilton.

So I guess I am more optimistic and whatever Habs have done between 1993-2012 is history, irrelevant (cept fan-pride I suppose) and has zero to do with Bergevin's plan, nor should it.

AND, better than being a Cubs, Clippers, Canuck or Cleveland Browns fan (poor bastards).

If Murray was worth 2 - 2nd round picks last year, what would Markov be worth on March 5th? A 1st round pick?

[Lovett's Magnatones]

I just don't see as a mess at all, nor see any real need to even trade anyone.

And I doubt Bergevin will do much at all and don't see that as a dumb play.

They traded away picks during past mgmt and have done well in past 2-3 drafts, but the first bunch has just reached AHL level and over the next couple years, numerous more skilled and character kids will be turning pro and coming to Hamilton.

So I guess I am more optimistic and whatever Habs have done between 1993-2012 is history, irrelevant (cept fan-pride I suppose) and has zero to do with Bergevin's plan, nor should it.

AND, better than being a Cubs, Clippers, Canuck or Cleveland Browns fan (poor bastards).

If Murray was worth 2 - 2nd round picks last year, what would Markov be worth on March 5th? A 1st round pick?

We're better off than the Florida Panthers, but how great would it be for hockey to see the resurgence of a Canadians juggernaut? I imagine it would be like the Yankees of MLB in the 90's.

I imagine Markov could get us an roster player like Tyler Toffoli, Brayden Schenn, Matt Read or Vladimir Tarasenko.

[habs rule]

If Murray was worth 2 - 2nd round picks last year, what would Markov be worth on March 5th? A 1st round pick?

I would say at a minimum, I would be looking at a1st and either a good prospect or someone who is not a smurf.

I mean if you are going to "build through the draft" then you gotta have some draft picks. The only teams who have "built through the draft" have finished last 3 or 4 years in a row, like pittsburgh, its how they got Lemiex, Crosby. Fleury and some russian guy.

Of course Edmonton is the classic example of building through the draft, that has worked out great hasn't it?

That is why I say it is a fantasy because Montreal will not finish last 3 years in a row. MB would be tarred and feathered. OK he would just be fired. And if we did it is just as big a crap shoot as trading guys. Except when you trade for a guy you have an idea of what you are getting. I notice that Detroit is real big on building through the draft.

[hab29RETIRED]

You don't trade who you've identified as being essential to your core to get "major assets" unless those manor assets are clearly far better then what your giving up.

SJ and Dallas both get major impact players by giving up 2nd and 3rd tier talent to the bruins, in the Thornten and Seguin deals. They didn't trade their equivalent of Subban or maxpac.

I think we could get significant assets from Colorado, Edmonton and winnepeg for pleks and gorges, because those are exactly the types of players those three teams need.

Trading maxpac would be stupid unless we were getting a significantly better player like stamkos or Malkin, because MaxPac's contract may be the best in hockey. A deal like that won't happen, so I don't see the point of trading him for another 30 or 35 goal scorer.

Cammi should have could have brought a hell of a lot more than the most laziest player and waste of talent in the league (as Bourque was repeatedly called - or words to that affect on HNIC). Bourque had zero value the year that the idiot PG made the trade.

Our recent history is picking up washed out has beens like Bourque, Kaberle and Briere. Every GM has come in with the famous never ending 5 year plan. No one has shown the balls or brains to make a bold move. Yes Gainey showed some balls, but demonstrated he clearly had no brains in the Gomez deal. That was a deal that not only made zero sense, but it was also stupid of him to offer a two year deal for a lazy, aged floater like kovolev, while casting away a heart and soul guy like koivu. Thank god kovolev tried to play hardball!!!

I have no issues dealing Eller if he part of a package for a bobby Ryan type player. I do have an issue with trading him and other assets for a guy like kesler who is headed fora decline.

I definitely don't move Subban, the Gally's, price unless it's for a kings ransom.

Building through the draft is fantasy, that is a new one and never heard before.

Pitt, Hawks, St Louis, LA, Bruins all built through the draft and shrewd move or two with those drafted assets.

You and CC seem to want to follow the Leafs playbook, sorry for insult.

I agree Habs are quite conservative and most fans also seem that way. Every time I tossed out a trade proposal in the fall involving Pacioretty or Subban, I got roasted.

And now I say should, trade Markov & give up an Eller (or Gallagher/Beaulieu) to revamp top 6. And all I hear is Kesler is washed up (or I would rather stay with DD as a top 2 centre?) or I don't like E Kane attitude or Byfuglien is too fat.

Everyone wants a big trade, but only want to give up Bourque-Moan-Gorges, ect which dosent put you much farther ahead for current roster.

You cant trade fringe assets for really good impact players, have Habs ever traded away a top quality player in recent memory?

Like Bruins did with Joe Thorton or Hawks did with Byfuglien or Ducks did with Bobby Ryan, etc.

All that said, if Bergevin makes zero moves till end of season, that is totally fine by me, I think summer is better time to deal. But, to make impact on lineup will not be painless and blue chip assets will likely need to be smartly parted with.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

It's kind of crazy how good Pacioretty's contract is.

I don't believe enough Habs fans recognize how good that deal is.

Just about every guy we discuss acquiring to do the same job he does for us will cost more.

[DON]

It's kind of crazy how good Pacioretty's contract is.

I don't believe enough Habs fans recognize how good that deal is.

Just about every guy we discuss acquiring to do the same job he does for us will cost more.

But, you said it, Pacioretty is unusual and oddity for value, so what if Kesler, Byfuglien etc make $5-5.5m/yr instead of 4.5, is to be expected and normal value.

I only toss out Gallagher's name as one Hobbit-Smurf that other teams may actually want (unlike DD, Gionta, Briere), for the vast majority who constantly (incessantly) are claiming size is all important.

So there you go, trade Gallagher back to Vancouver or Winnipeg and get a bigger replacement.

Just because he is a fan favourite shouldn't matter if think trading him will upgrade team, or am I wrong?

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Any "major" move will involve losing valued assets: Tinordi, Beaulieu, Eller, Gallagher, Plekanec, Markov, whatever. It's going to hurt somewhat. That said, Pacioretty, Price, Subban and Galyenchuk are surely as close to untouchable as any players get. I don't know why we would even consider moving them. The point is not to make a move for the sake of it, but to make the team a contender, either in the short, medium, or longer term. Moving those guys removes a core piece of any future contender.

I agree, in short, with Habs29's post above.

[BlueKross]

I agree with Don on the issue of what is likely to happen. We will stay the course and there will be very limited movement. MB has said as much. We are coming to a point where we have a glut of defencemen which will soon have to be on our big roster or lose them or lose somebody already on roster. i loathe letting FA walk.

[REV-G]

Eklund is reporting Parenteau for Briere just about a done deal. IF there's any truth to this, what do you think of it?

[Machine of Loving Grace]

Eklund is reporting Parenteau for Briere just about a done deal. IF there's any truth to this, what do you think of it?

It'd be great for us.

[DON]

Eklund is reporting Parenteau for Briere just about a done deal. IF there's any truth to this, what do you think of it?

Ignoring the Eklund part, don't know his track record, but not real credible is he?

But besides that

Parenteau is from Quebec (important to some)

has 58pts/yr average

$4m/yr for next two years not crazy contract.

so could be worse pick ups.

[TurdBurglar]

Eklund is reporting Parenteau for Briere just about a done deal. IF there's any truth to this, what do you think of it?

It's Briere and a pick OR a defenceman. I'm not sure I believe it.

We are fortunate to not have any injuries on defense,so Boullion isn't playing, but to trade away any roster defenseman without a roster defenseman coming back is odd. Especially when it's not our defence that is the problem.

When it comes to Briere and a pick, I'm not sure a 1-for-1 roster swap is wise. For one, it appears we will be making the playoffs barring a collapse, so Briere is undoubtedly an asset going into the playoff until proven otherwise. Also Briere is starting to play better, so why ditch him now? Wouldn't it make more sense to trade Eller/Gionta/Bourque(Who IS confirmed to be on the block)?

The only thing that makes sense about Briere for Paranteau is there would be equal cap hits being traded. I guarantee MB is not looking to take on any additional cap unless it's for a key piece in return, like the Kane to Montreal rumors.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

We trade a defenceman, Tinordi or Pateryn goes up. Not that hard to understand.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

We need wingers. Briere is both a piece of steaming crap and a C. I am also skeptical about Briere's supposed playoff prowess, which is based on outdated information. Ergo, this would be a terrific deal if it's a straight 1-for-1 swap. I hope it happens, but won't hold my breath.

[lazy26]

If it's Eklund we can pretty much cross out this scenario from ever happening.