IN THE HEARTS OF MEN Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 I think if they retain salary, it will be on Allen's contract and not Savard personally. Also, the thought of trading Monahan and not re-signing really isn't ideal for the Habs. even if we are only just entering year 3 of the Gorton Hughes era. With Dach returning from his knee next season. Monahan is the perfect insurance for this team. I disagree that he is only going to fetch a 2nd. He's worth a 1st and worth even more to us. I'd be totally ok re-signing him for 3 years at 5 million, even 4 years and with no clauses! I really think he's getting re-signed and is not on the block Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs Fan in Edmonton Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 5 minutes ago, IN THE HEARTS OF MEN said: I think if they retain salary, it will be on Allen's contract and not Savard personally. Also, the thought of trading Monahan and not re-signing really isn't ideal for the Habs. even if we are only just entering year 3 of the Gorton Hughes era. With Dach returning from his knee next season. Monahan is the perfect insurance for this team. I disagree that he is only going to fetch a 2nd. He's worth a 1st and worth even more to us. I'd be totally ok re-signing him for 3 years at 5 million, even 4 years and with no clauses! I really think he's getting re-signed and is not on the block I think Monahan could get a 1st and you take the 1st and run if you get it. It's always hard to say what the market will be like at the deadline, depends on a lot of things, how many teams in the race, injuries etc. No way I pay Monahan $5million/year given his injury history. If Dach can stay healthy (please!) then you have your #1 and # 2 centers. I doubt he gets $5 million as a UFA but you never know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 Monahan scored today but hes really fallen off from his hot start. I think that reduces both his trade value and the contract projections we previously discussed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IN THE HEARTS OF MEN Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 12 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said: I think Monahan could get a 1st and you take the 1st and run if you get it. It's always hard to say what the market will be like at the deadline, depends on a lot of things, how many teams in the race, injuries etc. No way I pay Monahan $5million/year given his injury history. If Dach can stay healthy (please!) then you have your #1 and # 2 centers. I doubt he gets $5 million as a UFA but you never know. You are over playing his injury history... Really look at his games played and you will see his injury history is really not as bad as portrayed by most. In fact his biggest layoff was with the habs last year with the broken foot. Clearly his hip is fine and if he finishes this season healthy and strong, he's easily worth 5. At his age, a 3 year deal takes him to 32 years. He likely still fetches a good return in his 3rd year as an upcoming UFA and it will give time for Beck to grow in minors. Suzuki Dach (healthy) Monahan Looks a whole lot better Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs Fan in Edmonton Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 8 minutes ago, IN THE HEARTS OF MEN said: You are over playing his injury history... Really look at his games played and you will see his injury history is really not as bad as portrayed by most. In fact his biggest layoff was with the habs last year with the broken foot. Clearly his hip is fine and if he finishes this season healthy and strong, he's easily worth 5. At his age, a 3 year deal takes him to 32 years. He likely still fetches a good return in his 3rd year as an upcoming UFA and it will give time for Beck to grow in minors. Suzuki Dach (healthy) Monahan Looks a whole lot better I might be over playing his injury history. I just think $5million is too much. In a couple years we will also have a number of defensemen coming off entry level contracts that will need raises. I don't think Beck needs more than a year in the minors given that he plays a 200 foot game already. If we sign Monahan I would be much more comfortable at 2 years around 3.0-3.5million year although he certainly may get more on the open market. I really like Monahan and I think he really likes Montreal so maybe there is a hometown discount if he wants to stay here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IN THE HEARTS OF MEN Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 There's no way he's taking a discount again. Healthy and on pace for another 20 goal season this year He has scored +20 goals in every season during his career but for 2 covid shortened seasons and last year when he had 8g in 25 With the Habs... Not to mention 4 of those were +30 goal seasons. A stud in the face off circle can play in every situation and plays the "right way" on top of that. Only just turned 29! I stand by my assessment he is worth more to us re-signed during this rebuild then the "potential" of the late 1st ir prospect we will get. Especially if we want Dach and Suzuki insulated during development. Suzuki is clearly there already but Dach will need support 1 year post op. 3 years (4 max) with a no trade clause. Of course I hope for less but around 5mil is what I think he's worth coming out of a healthy 20 goal season this year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IN THE HEARTS OF MEN Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 Games missed by season in 11th season Calgary 7 1 1 Zero 8 4 Zero Covid season 6 (hip) Covid season 17 (hip) Montreal 57 (Broken foot) Zero (currently) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 8 hours ago, IN THE HEARTS OF MEN said: Games missed by season in 11th season Calgary 7 1 1 Zero 8 4 Zero Covid season 6 (hip) Covid season 17 (hip) Montreal 57 (Broken foot) Zero (currently) Funny thing, everyone talks about Monahan’s injury history as a huge asterisk, but very few people seem to raise the same concern about Dach. In fact Dach has been chronically injury-prone thus far in his short career, on a scale worthy of Benoit Brunet. I suspect the reason for this discrepancy is that we all grasp how important Dach is for the rebuild. We don’t want to face the possibility that his career may turn out to be much more compromised than Monahan’s has been. IMHO we need to re-sign Monahan BOTH to give a buffer to Dach when he returns…AND to buy us time to find/develop another solution at C in the event that Dach continues his pattern of disastrous injuries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 I think there is another couple things to remember with Monahan's injuries vs Dach's. Pure games missed is one thing but its not everything. Monahan was a dominant PPG centre on a first line in Calgary at one point in his career. While hes still a good player, His injuries have clearly reduced his effectiveness and hes played through them. Dach's injuries have been different body parts each time (wrist, sternum, leg), while Monahan has had a chronic issue with his hip. Dach is younger. Dach has two more years on his contract at 3.3 million, significantly less than the numbers we are discussing on a potential monahan extension in this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs Fan in Edmonton Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 9 hours ago, IN THE HEARTS OF MEN said: There's no way he's taking a discount again. Healthy and on pace for another 20 goal season this year He has scored +20 goals in every season during his career but for 2 covid shortened seasons and last year when he had 8g in 25 With the Habs... Not to mention 4 of those were +30 goal seasons. A stud in the face off circle can play in every situation and plays the "right way" on top of that. Only just turned 29! I stand by my assessment he is worth more to us re-signed during this rebuild then the "potential" of the late 1st ir prospect we will get. Especially if we want Dach and Suzuki insulated during development. Suzuki is clearly there already but Dach will need support 1 year post op. 3 years (4 max) with a no trade clause. Of course I hope for less but around 5mil is what I think he's worth coming out of a healthy 20 goal season this year You make some good points. If he stays healthy all year, scores 20-25 goals gets 50-55 points then he will be in a very good bargaining position for a 29 year old as he will still have a lot of good years left. Maybe I am being overly optimistic in hoping for a hometown discount. The factors you mentioned should also make him very attractive to a serious cup contender. I really believe a 1st round pick plus will be a reasonable return at the deadline. If the best we can do is a 2nd then I definitely try and resign him. And I think many here (including myself) are equally concerned probably even more concerned about Dach's injury history. He is such a vital piece going forward. It would be a disaster if he was another porcelain man (Benoit Brunet). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs Fan in Edmonton Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 3 minutes ago, Commandant said: IDach's injuries have been different body parts each time (wrist, sternum, leg), while Monahan has had a chronic issue with his hip. Dach is younger. That's true and it's a lot of injuries for a guy who is just turning 23. My concern is that he gets himself into bad positions where injuries can happen. Hopefully it's just a run of bad luck. Time will tell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 Kinda guessing Monahan must be pretty keen on chasing a cup/ring this season. Thus being resigned by Habs seems unlikely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs Fan in Edmonton Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 1 minute ago, DON said: Kinda guessing Monahan must be pretty keen on chasing a cup/ring this season. Thus being resigned by Habs seems unlikely. I don't think that's the case or he wouldn't have resigned with the Habs. I think he just wants to play and stay healthy and enjoy where he is playing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfredoh2009 Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 1 hour ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said: Funny thing, everyone talks about Monahan’s injury history as a huge asterisk, but very few people seem to raise the same concern about Dach. In fact Dach has been chronically injury-prone thus far in his short career, on a scale worthy of Benoit Brunet. I suspect the reason for this discrepancy is that we all grasp how important Dach is for the rebuild. We don’t want to face the possibility that his career may turn out to be much more compromised than Monahan’s has been. IMHO we need to re-sign Monahan BOTH to give a buffer to Dach when he returns…AND to buy us time to find/develop another solution at C in the event that Dach continues his pattern of disastrous injuries. great points, makes me wonder if resigning Monahan and trading Dvorak once he recovers may not be the best option. Even if it means retaining part of Dvorak's last year salary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 9 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said: I don't think that's the case or he wouldn't have resigned with the Habs. I think he just wants to play and stay healthy and enjoy where he is playing. He resigned with Habs at low salary due to injury last year. He resigned with expectation to play lots on a losing team and am guessing is pretty keen on playing in May/June. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs Fan in Edmonton Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 7 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said: great points, makes me wonder if resigning Monahan and trading Dvorak once he recovers may not be the best option. Even if it means retaining part of Dvorak's last year salary. Dvorak is gone after next year, no doubt about it because they have a young guy coming up who can do his job at a much cheaper rate. Maybe you have heard of him. His name is Owen beck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs Fan in Edmonton Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 1 minute ago, DON said: He resigned with Habs at low salary due to injury last year. He resigned with expectation to play lots on a losing team and am guessing is pretty keen on playing in May/June. I am sure like any NHL player he would like to play in May/June but I think the main reason he signed in Montreal is because he likes playing in Montreal. His choices may have been limited due to his injury but I bet other teams inquired. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfredoh2009 Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 with healthy Dach and Newhook and a 5year contract for Monahan, the Habs will be a playoff team in the 24-25 season. If Evans centers the 4th line, that would make the Habs a very strong team down the middle, among the best IMHO With some HugGort trade magic, the Habs would play in May for the duration of Monahan's contract and he would be an important factor in any success the team has. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomh009 Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 38 minutes ago, DON said: He resigned with Habs at low salary due to injury last year. He resigned with expectation to play lots on a losing team and am guessing is pretty keen on playing in May/June. We are all guessing as Monahan has not given us any indication. But being longer-term part of a rebuild into a contender could also be appealing to him. We just don’t know. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHT120 Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 1 hour ago, DON said: Kinda guessing Monahan must be pretty keen on chasing a cup/ring this season. Thus being resigned by Habs seems unlikely. 1 hour ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said: I don't think that's the case or he wouldn't have resigned with the Habs. I think he just wants to play and stay healthy and enjoy where he is playing. I-M-O (what do any of us really know about such things) in the absence of any indication of significant interest from other teams ( even without the "legal tampering window", teams and agents talk informally or through "emissaries") Monahan re-signed where he felt comfortable AND he had a good chance at Top6 minutes to show he is healthy and earn another multiyear contract at good money ... a playoff run would only enhance the odds of such a contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 12 hours ago, IN THE HEARTS OF MEN said: I think if they retain salary, it will be on Allen's contract and not Savard personally. Also, the thought of trading Monahan and not re-signing really isn't ideal for the Habs. even if we are only just entering year 3 of the Gorton Hughes era. With Dach returning from his knee next season. Monahan is the perfect insurance for this team. I disagree that he is only going to fetch a 2nd. He's worth a 1st and worth even more to us. I'd be totally ok re-signing him for 3 years at 5 million, even 4 years and with no clauses! I really think he's getting re-signed and is not on the block Here's why I don't expect a first-rounder. For the last two months, he has produced at the level of a third-liner; his stat line since November 11th is nearly identical to Josh Anderson's. That's not a top-six profile and when you're talking about moving a first for a third-liner, teams will start to get hesitant. Add that to the fact that he's not a great penalty killer (like Ryan O'Reilly was last season when Toronto flipped a first for him) and that hurts his value as well. Add to that two hip surgeries (one makes some teams start to go squirrelly) and it's hard to see a big bidding war start for him, even with a below-market contract. He's probably a third or fourth choice for contenders looking for forward help to add some depth and play 15 minutes a night on the third line. That's not a profile that typically brings back a first-round pick though I'd be happy to be wrong if they go that route. Like you, I think re-signing is a viable option if he likes the fit in Montreal although $5M for a player who isn't a top-six player on most teams anymore might be pushing it. I suspect within the next month or so, Hughes will take a run at seeing what a new contract would look like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomh009 Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 2 hours ago, Commandant said: Monahan was a dominant PPG centre on a first line in Calgary at one point in his career. While hes still a good player, His injuries have clearly reduced his effectiveness and hes played through them. Only one year of point/game (or did you mean power play goals?), though, in 2018-19. For most of his Calgary career, he was in the range of 0.7-0.8 points/game. With the Habs, 0.68 last year and 0.59 this year--mostly not with top-notch linemates. He's down a bit from his earlier production, but still very credible. I do agree that a first-rounder is unlikely, all things consider, though. I think a big question is whether he likes playing for the Habs enough to sign (a reasonable contract) without exploring free agency. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs Fan in Edmonton Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 56 minutes ago, GHT120 said: I-M-O (what do any of us really know about such things) in the absence of any indication of significant interest from other teams ( even without the "legal tampering window", teams and agents talk informally or through "emissaries") Monahan re-signed where he felt comfortable AND he had a good chance at Top6 minutes to show he is healthy and earn another multiyear contract at good money ... a playoff run would only enhance the odds of such a contract. We don't know. We are only speculating which is what we spend a lot of time doing here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs Fan in Edmonton Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 29 minutes ago, dlbalr said: Here's why I don't expect a first-rounder. For the last two months, he has produced at the level of a third-liner; his stat line since November 11th is nearly identical to Josh Anderson's. That's not a top-six profile and when you're talking about moving a first for a third-liner, teams will start to get hesitant. I would prefer to look at the whole season rather than picking and choosing specific time frames to support your argument. Do you think teams will judge Josh Anderson on the whole season or just the last 3 weeks? It's hard to say right now what the market will look like at the deadline. Teams almost always overpay at the deadline. Many here made reasonable arguments why the Habs wouldn't get a 1st for Chiarot and then they got a 1st plus. We will see. Hopefully Monahan stays healthy so we can find out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 7 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said: I would prefer to look at the whole season rather than picking and choosing specific time frames to support your argument. Do you think teams will judge Josh Anderson on the whole season or just the last 3 weeks? It's hard to say right now what the market will look like at the deadline. Teams almost always overpay at the deadline. Many here made reasonable arguments why the Habs wouldn't get a 1st for Chiarot and then they got a 1st plus. We will see. Hopefully Monahan stays healthy so we can find out. Monahan produced like a top-six forward for a month and a third-liner for two months. He's on the third line now. I think there's plenty of evidence to show he's a third liner on a contending team. Teams know what Anderson is; his value hasn't moved much within the last couple of years, even when he was sitting at zero goals a few weeks ago. With Monahan's injury past, his value is much more susceptible to movement. Two years in a row now, he started strong and then slowed down; if I can see that, so can other teams. There isn't a contending team out there that's looking at Monahan as a full-time top-six guy regardless of my stat line (which was more to illustrate to some who think he's still producing that he really isn't all that much lately). Yes, lots can change but as of today, I think he's viewed as a third-liner by everyone who might want him. History shows that the elite third-liners get a first-rounder and I don't think Monahan is in that category right now. But, given that his value ebbs and flows a lot more compared to someone like Anderson, a good six-week stretch could definitely change things. But from what I've seen from him lately, I'm not expecting it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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