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Remember the heat you took for proposing a Kovalev deal last season?

And it would still be a contradictory move? What would yuo be expecting to get for him, The Chicoutimi Cucumber? A 1st round pick and a decent prospect (in other words, no roster players)? Unless you plan to subsequently acquire Lecavalier, then trading Kovalev leaves us with no chance of competing in the playoffs this season. If we trade Kovalev, we may as well become sellers and unload as much as we can (that we don't plan on bringing back next year). I don't think we want to re-tool at this point. It may take years (decades?) before we ever have a team this strong again, I wouldn't advise taking a step back with the hope of being better sometime in the future.

We'd be totally banking our future on breakout seasons from all of our young players, namely Andrei Kostitsyn. We saw this season that we can't guarantee steady upward improvement from our younger players.

The best move for us right now is to make a move for a player under contract for more than the remainder of the season.

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And it would still be a contradictory move? What would yuo be expecting to get for him, The Chicoutimi Cucumber? A 1st round pick and a decent prospect (in other words, no roster players)? Unless you plan to subsequently acquire Lecavalier, then trading Kovalev leaves us with no chance of competing in the playoffs this season. If we trade Kovalev, we may as well become sellers and unload as much as we can (that we don't plan on bringing back next year). I don't think we want to re-tool at this point. It may take years (decades?) before we ever have a team this strong again, I wouldn't advise taking a step back with the hope of being better sometime in the future.

We'd be totally banking our future on breakout seasons from all of our young players, namely Andrei Kostitsyn. We saw this season that we can't guarantee steady upward improvement from our younger players.

The best move for us right now is to make a move for a player under contract for more than the remainder of the season.

We have lots of good players. Trading Kovalev will not be the entire difference between being good and rebuilding. It better not be, because I seriously doubt that Bob was expecting to re-sign Kovalev anyway. This has been my operative assumption all along.

If the Ducks aren't interested in Kovalev as a return for Pronger (and it seems highly optimistic to think they would be), I might be looking at first, flipping Kovalev for some good picks and second, flipping those picks to Anaheim for Pronger. Something along those lines. Other options are to sniff around teams like Minnesota that are starved for help at forward and have a surplus of good puck-moving defencemen.

It all depends on the market for Kovalev, really. I don't think Kovalev will be worthless to teams looking to make a playoff push. So it's worth persuing.

As for trading him at the end of last season, that might conceivably have yielded us some serious return in exchange for a player whose return to mediocrity is hardly surprising. But that's water under the bridge.

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That situation (flipping the picks for Pronger) could work but it still leaves us relying on too many young players to step up. Comebacks by Plekanec and Higgins, Andrei Kostitsyn to become a 1st line talent, Sergei to improve, Pacioretty and Lapierre to maintain their level of play, ...

With both Lang and Kovy out, we lose our two top-scoring forwards and who's left? Koivu, Tanguay and a hell of a lot of young players, most of them struggling. Will trading Kovalev magically improve the work ethic and chemistry of the team? That's doubtful. Kovalev is the most instrumental player in the chemistry and play of our team. And that's one reason why they're slumping: because the entire team is sitting around waiting for Kovy to be their hero when Kovalev is just too inconsistent/unpredictable/unreliable to be that guy. The solution to that problem isn't to get rid of Kovy, it's to bring in someone above Kovy, better than him, who'll make Kovalev just another one of our talented offensive forwards, albeit the best of them. That's why I sort of like the Lecavalier scenario. It relegates both of our team's two hearts and renders their ranking almost irrelevant. Where we once had a battle be between Koivu and Kovalev, we now have a single sheriff in town backed by an awesome arsenal of nameless, faceless offensive talents.

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are you guys just starting a new rumours about pronger? good luck. :P

Well, this IS the rumour thread...

No, someone else reported that the Habs were interested in Pronger. Given that we're known to be seeking a defenceman, it does seem a reasonable thing to speculate about.

BTH, a Pronger would probably help our offence - probably at least as much as Kovalev is doing right now. One of our hidden problems is the lack of any offensive push from the blueline outside of Markov. But there's no question that trading Kovy would shift the focus to the kids. Since I no longer believe we're serious contenders (although Tanguay's return, and a return to form by Price, might alter the equation) I'm not sure this would be such a bad thing. Now missing the playoffs would be another story...but is Kovalev helping us to make them?

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Well, this IS the rumour thread...

No, someone else reported that the Habs were interested in Pronger. Given that we're known to be seeking a defenceman, it does seem a reasonable thing to speculate about.

BTH, a Pronger would probably help our offence - probably at least as much as Kovalev is doing right now. One of our hidden problems is the lack of any offensive push from the blueline outside of Markov. But there's no question that trading Kovy would shift the focus to the kids. Since I no longer believe we're serious contenders (although Tanguay's return, and a return to form by Price, might alter the equation) I'm not sure this would be such a bad thing. Now missing the playoffs would be another story...but is Kovalev helping us to make them?

You're assuming he's going to be in a slump until the end of the season. He has been playing at a near point per game rate. Before this team slump, he was helping us. A lot. He doesn't need to be having an 84 point year to be helping us. He plays on the PP, the PK, Carbo trusts him in key situations. It seems like when Kovy plays amazingly well, it's ruled off as a fluke, or a "one-in-five-game performance," and then when he plays pretty well, he's called useless for not being dominant.

As "dismal" as he may seem, he's still been one of our most valuable players on the season.

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You're assuming he's going to be in a slump until the end of the season. He has been playing at a near point per game rate. Before this team slump, he was helping us. A lot. He doesn't need to be having an 84 point year to be helping us. He plays on the PP, the PK, Carbo trusts him in key situations. It seems like when Kovy plays amazingly well, it's ruled off as a fluke, or a "one-in-five-game performance," and then when he plays pretty well, he's called useless for not being dominant.

As "dismal" as he may seem, he's still been one of our most valuable players on the season.

:clap: Well said! But your wasting your breath; around here, everyone needs someone to heap the blame on to protect the king of mediocrity, Saku Koivu.

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Well, this IS the rumour thread...

No, someone else reported that the Habs were interested in Pronger. Given that we're known to be seeking a defenceman, it does seem a reasonable thing to speculate about.

BTH, a Pronger would probably help our offence - probably at least as much as Kovalev is doing right now. One of our hidden problems is the lack of any offensive push from the blueline outside of Markov. But there's no question that trading Kovy would shift the focus to the kids. Since I no longer believe we're serious contenders (although Tanguay's return, and a return to form by Price, might alter the equation) I'm not sure this would be such a bad thing. Now missing the playoffs would be another story...but is Kovalev helping us to make them?

[expletive] Pronger.

i mean, if his GF is wearing the pants in the house... and choose what teams he plays for... (which makes him cry!) why would we want him?

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[expletive] Pronger.

i mean, if his GF is wearing the pants in the house... and choose what teams he plays for... (which makes him cry!) why would we want him?

:lol: Someone send her some brochures about the shopping opportunities in Montreal.

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If koivu is the king of mediocrity then I think Kovalev is the Queen of pansy useless players that this team doesn't need. Sbhatt you still think Kovalev is going to be signed and not Koivu? You're going to be eating your words buddy because I don't think Gainey re-signs undersacheiving pre-madonnas...sorry buddy Your precious Kovalev is Gone!

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If koivu is the king of mediocrity then I think Kovalev is the Queen of pansy useless players that this team doesn't need. Sbhatt you still think Kovalev is going to be signed and not Koivu? You're going to be eating your words buddy because I don't think Gainey re-signs undersacheiving pre-madonnas...sorry buddy Your precious Kovalev is Gone!

I think they are both gone. Koivu doesn't have it, never has, never will. He has been Captain over the worst period of our history, bar none. He is a decent player but there is something seriously wrong when your supposed leader comes back and the team, blazing hot to that point and still in unlikely contention for first in their division, looks like missing the playoffs. It isn't his effort on the ice I'm talking about - the effect on the team has been disastrous, and we're not going to trade 24 players to keep him, not this time. A good individual player, an inspiring story in many ways, but not able to take us even to a consistent playoff level.

Kovalev is too much ego-management for Carbo to handle. It's obvious there is a lack of respect between the two, they got off to the worst of starts and sure, there must be a germ of the idea in Kovy's mind that, 'I know better.' I think he has helped a lot of the European players come in and make the transition; but his play is maddeningly inconsistent; and, not unlike Koivu, the team has placed too much burden on his 36-year-old shoulders, expecting him to be a 80-90 point player when he in no longer that.

Added to this, Koivu and Kovalev obviously don't get along on some level. The team needs a fresh start, needs Carbo to be able to work with 'his' players, and it's 'Thanks for the memories' time for the both of them.

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If koivu is the king of mediocrity then I think Kovalev is the Queen of pansy useless players that this team doesn't need. Sbhatt you still think Kovalev is going to be signed and not Koivu? You're going to be eating your words buddy because I don't think Gainey re-signs undersacheiving pre-madonnas...sorry buddy Your precious Kovalev is Gone!

Kovalev is likely gone, but I can't see "the little engine who couldn't" Koivu being retained either. So I guess we'll both be halfways happy come summer.

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Kovalev is likely gone, but I can't see "the little engine who couldn't" Koivu being retained either. So I guess we'll both be halfways happy come summer.

Without turning this into a Kovalev/Koivu thread, I think the latter could be retained solely because of position. With Lang's health in question, and the C market not that deep, I could easily see Koivu retained so that we don't see Maxwell/Lapierre on the 2nd line (depending on how other things fall). Kovalev is a winger, and that's where Montreal's forward depth is stronger. Both could return, both could go, but if I was a betting man, I'd say the odds are greater that Koivu would stay.

As for Pronger, if you acquire him, Komisarek is as good as gone most likely, as there's one year and 6.25 mil left on the deal if I remember correctly. That being said, I wouldn't be overly against him coming, although there are other options I'm sure that might make more fiscal sense.

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Pronger is an attractive option in pure hockey terms. His salary would certainly be a serious concern (but if we drop Kovalev, then it might be feasible to keep Pronger and Komisarek - Pronger would represent, what, an extra $2 mil?). As for his ladyfriend, who the heck knows what went on there, but I do know one thing - Montreal ain't Edmonton!

I'm bored of this 'Koivu' argument, so I'll just assert my belief that he will be re-signed, assuming he can be signed for a moderate rate. This is partly because Gainey recognizes character when he sees it, partly because he remains a good hockey player, and partly because dlbar makes an excellent point about our catastrophic weakness at C.

Frankly, I doubt that Bob will make any huge moves because, unless someone wants Kovalev, the inevitable asking price will be high draft picks and/or young players (a price that I sincerely hope Bob refuses to pay). So this is no more than amusing speculation anyway.

Edited by The Chicoutimi Cucumber
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Pronger is an attractive option in pure hockey terms. His salary would certainly be a serious concern (but if we drop Kovalev, then it might be feasible to keep Pronger and Komisarek - Pronger would represent, what, an extra $2 mil?). As for his ladyfriend, who the heck knows what went on there, but I do know one thing - Montreal ain't Edmonton!

I'm bored of this 'Koivu' argument, so I'll just assert my belief that he will be re-signed, assuming he can be signed for a moderate rate. This is partly because Gainey recognizes character when he sees it, partly because he remains a good hockey player, and partly because dlbar makes an excellent point about our catastrophic weakness at C.

Frankly, I doubt that Bob will make any huge moves because, unless someone wants Kovalev, the inevitable asking price will be high draft picks and/or young players (a price that I sincerely hope Bob refuses to pay). So this is no more than amusing speculation anyway.

Watching the embarrasing display in Calgary, is it really feasible to trade young assets for a longshot?

They need to make the playoffs, and they have enough talent that they will, but I have serious doubts of them accomplishing anything outside of a couple great home crowds.

They need to change the face of this team long term. If this continues it will be 3 of 4 seasons in which the leaders on this team could not maintain a strong first half from turning into a full scale collapse. That says to me that last season was an abberation, not the other way around.

If people believe that the whole Kovalev/Koivu leadership is not flawed they are putting their head in the sand. Those calling for Carbo's head are wasting their time. Julien had the Habs playing the system that Boston is playing, everybody bought in and they overachieved. Gainey brought in Kovalev and ever since then the Habs have ebbed and flowed depending on Kovlalev's performance.

Gainey needs to remake the face of this team right now. Acquiring Pronger would give them the best chance to do damage this season, he changes the face of the defense. He can create offensively, he can neutralize players like Lucic and he is dirty as hell.

If Gainey is going to flip young assets he needs to do it looking toward the future.

I would go hard for Lecavalier and Pronger.

The 100th anniversary Cup dream is just about dead, the only reason it is alive in my mind is because of improbable runs like the Flames in 04, Oiler 06, NY Giants in 07 and the Arizona Cardinals in 08. But that is a hope and a prayer.

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Well - and if read Wamsley correctly we're in agreement - I stand by my Kovalev-for-picks, picks-for-Pronger scenario. Of course it's easier said than done. But if you want to change the culture of the team, don't start with Koivu - who as far as anyone can tell has ample character - start with the glaringly obvious headcase: Kovalev. Then see where you are.

Also, any other franchise would be seriously looking at the coach right now. Not saying it's right, just saying it's a fact.

Edited by The Chicoutimi Cucumber
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Wamsley, were you reading my previous past on another thread? Very similar ideas, even to the head-in-the-sand analogy. Well done. I have also been trumpeting a whole identity change for a few days now, hadn't thought of Pronger, but if Komi is going to cost anywhere near what Pronger does already, well, thanks for everything Mike.

LeCavalier, there is a package to get him here. Economy, cap, length of contract - whatever. He is worth it, he has 10 years left and would radically alter the franchise. ONLY Price should be the untouchable here (though I'd want to keep Pacioretty badly). Trading for guys like LeCavalier (and to a lesser degree Pronger) would give us a core identity for a good 5+years. The kids coming up plus Timmins' unique talents will allow us to build around them.

This is not a call to do whatever we can to win this year, we most likely can't; but we've been stockpiling kids and picking up plug-in vets for some time now. Maybe this is the moment to now say goodbye to our aging core and get the new direction going.

Flamers 04; Oilers 06; G-men last year; Cardinals this year. One common denominator: they cared, every man, every play; and used their motivation to bring up their already excellent talent level.

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Well - and if read Wamsley correctly we're in agreement - I stand by my Kovalev-for-picks, picks-for-Pronger scenario. Of course it's easier said than done. But if you want to change the culture of the team, don't start with Koivu - who as far as anyone can tell has ample character - start with the glaringly obvious headcase: Kovalev. Then see where you are.

Nope. Kovalev anytime; Koivu at the end of the season, no question both out. As I've written before, character is there, talent, will, but let's face facts, something just doesn't work with him. Age? Ego? Don't know, but it has never worked and never will.

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I agree with Wamsley except I would like to find a way to acquire Pronger without giving up Kovalev (he never really said we should, but it sort of sounded like he was implying it). There will be no need to dump one of Koivu/Kovalev (aside for financial purposes, in the summer) if we have someone who reigns above them both. I don't think we need both Pronger & Lecavalier - either one will change the culture of the team tremendously.

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I'm not sure Koivu or Kovalev have done anything this year to warrant them staying. That is almost 10 million dollars combined and not even 25 goals between the 2 of them.

Pronger would be nice, he would certainly change the toughness factor.

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Something might be happening. For those of you who missed it last night on TSN's "That's Hockey" According to Bob McKenzie we are looking at Olli Jokinen and Derek Morris.

That's Hockey video

MONTREAL, QC - Montreal Canadiens General Manager Bob Gainey announced today that the club has reassigned defenceman J.T. Wyman to Hamilton from the Cincinnati Cyclones of the ECHL. Hamilton Bulldogs General Manager Julien BriseBois also announced today that the club has recalled defenceman Frederic St-Denis from Cincinnati.

Hamilton Bulldogs recall link.

And, after last night debacle why cancel practice???

CKAC - Habs practice cancelled

Fasten your safety belts...maybe.

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I honestly don't care anymore if anywho but THE Price or Markov is traded.

I believe in the Bob. I know he has the power.

I would go as far as to say that I think part of the problem has to do with Saku, no matter how hard he plays... the effect when he's on the team is that ... we suck?!

"Il s'agissait d'une 6e défaite à l'étranger, d'un 8e revers lors des 10 derniers matchs, d'un 5e échec depuis le retour du capitaine Saku Koivu."

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I honestly don't care anymore if anywho but THE Price or Markov is traded.

I believe in the Bob. I know he has the power.

I would go as far as to say that I think part of the problem has to do with Saku, no matter how hard he plays... the effect when he's on the team is that ... we suck?!

"Il s'agissait d'une 6e défaite à l'étranger, d'un 8e revers lors des 10 derniers matchs, d'un 5e échec depuis le retour du capitaine Saku Koivu."

I admire your blindness!!

I beleive koivu will leave but Kovalev has to go as well.

I'll pull a cherry but it's time to give the leadership to an north american named Komiarek.

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I wouldn't read anything into that Bulldogs recall link - they have more regulars injured than we do now - Beauregard and Latendresse are out for the season, Flinn's got some sort of injury, Aubin has mono, Glumac has a shoulder problem (I think) and is out until near April, while Belle/Carle both were hurt in their last game. Those callups are to enable the team to actually dress a full complement of players and nothing more.

In fact, the Bulldogs wound up signing a guy to a PTO today in order to give themselves a fully healthy lineup.

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