Anti-Maple Leafs Thread

[CerebusClone]

Entirely cleaning house would be quite stupid actually, and unnecessary. I believe with good management the Leafs can become very competitive within only a year or two. The most important thing for them this season is to identify who should stay, and who's wasting their money and time (ie. who are the Plekanecs, Higginses, ... versus the the Bulises, the Ryders, and the Zedniks).

They need to see who can provide new leadership, both in the locker room and on the ice. They need to give to good young players like Stralman, Tlutsy, Kulemin, White... a chance to become permanent roster players, they must give a good chance to wild cards such as Grabvoski and Earl (they have nithing to lose, , and they need to find out what guys like Antropov, Steen, and Stajan can do now that they won't be in Mats Sundin's shadow, around whom everything rotated in Toronto in the past.

Finally, they also must figure out whether the current veterans such as Kaberle, Kubina, Blake, Bell, and also Van Ryn and Finger are quality players who can support the younger players in the next few years, or whether

After this season, they'll be in a better position to acquire the missing elements, either via trades or UFA signings; they have the great advantage of being a city where many players want to be, which should help.

ps. Talking about Mark Bell, I think we could see a more serious, more focused Bell this season in Toronto, who could have his best season in years. Reading about his recent interviews, he seems to realized how lucky he is; he stopped drinking, and I beleiev he's been working hard for the upcoming season. Spending his entire summer, 40 hours a week, picking up garbage along the highway in the distinct company of true criminals could have been his eye-opener.

[Polarice]

Entirely cleaning house would be quite stupid actually, and unnecessary. I believe with good management the Leafs can become very competitive within only a year or two. The most important thing for them this season is to identify who should stay, and who's wasting their money and time (ie. who are the Plekanecs, Higginses, ... versus the the Bulises, the Ryders, and the Zedniks).

They need to see who can provide new leadership, both in the locker room and on the ice. They need to give to good young players like Stralman, Tlutsy, Kulemin, White... a chance to become permanent roster players, they must give a good chance to wild cards such as Grabvoski and Earl (they have nithing to lose, , and they need to find out what guys like Antropov, Steen, and Stajan can do now that they won't be in Mats Sundin's shadow, around whom everything rotated in Toronto in the past.

Finally, they also must figure out whether the current veterans such as Kaberle, Kubina, Blake, Bell, and also Van Ryn and Finger are quality players who can support the younger players in the next few years, or whether

After this season, they'll be in a better position to acquire the missing elements, either via trades or UFA signings; they have the great advantage of being a city where many players want to be, which should help.

ps. Talking about Mark Bell, I think we could see a more serious, more focused Bell this season in Toronto, who could have his best season in years. Reading about his recent interviews, he seems to realized how lucky he is; he stopped drinking, and I beleiev he's been working hard for the upcoming season. Spending his entire summer, 40 hours a week, picking up garbage along the highway in the distinct company of true criminals could have been his eye-opener.

They have no "veterans" worth keeping other than Kaberle, they already tried to trade Kubina twice. Antropov, Steen, Bell and Stajan are only 3rd and 4th line guys.....Blake is a good 2nd line forward and PP guy, but in no way gonna carry a team on his back. They have a back up goaltender as a #1, and unless they decide to play in the free agent market next summer, there is no way this team will be competitive in under 5 years.

[CerebusClone]

They have no "veterans" worth keeping other than Kaberle, they already tried to trade Kubina twice. Antropov, Steen, Bell and Stajan are only 3rd and 4th line guys.....Blake is a good 2nd line forward and PP guy, but in no way gonna carry a team on his back. They have a back up goaltender as a #1, and unless they decide to play in the free agent market next summer, there is no way this team will be competitive in under 5 years.

Not every GM needs to take the easy long-term route to make a team competitive

Actually, I think it will be interesting to see how guys like Steen and Stajan will react to increased responsabilities now that they will be out of Mats Sundin shadow. They could be exposed as leeches who were just draining Sundin, but they could also emerge as leaders and much better players, like Olli Jokinen did in Florida after Pavel Bure was traded (I'm not saying they'll reach that level of play).

As I also mentionned, Mark Bell seems highly motived and "clean" coming to training camp, he could surprise many. He would be a strong runner-up for the Bill Masterton award with a successfull comeback (not that he ever reached his potential before).

Edited September 3, 2008 by CerebusClone

[Polarice]

As I also mentionned, Mark Bell seems highly motived and "clean" coming to training camp, he could regain surprise many. He would be a string runner-up for the Bill Masterton award with a successfull comeback (not that he ever reached his potential before).

I've always been a fan of Bell, but for obvious reasons he never reached his potential.....if he has a good year there's no doubt he could win the Masterton!!

[JMMR]

I've always been a fan of Bell, but for obvious reasons he never reached his potential.....if he has a good year there's no doubt he could win the Masterton!!

As long as he does not pick up any more DUI's/

[BTH]

Actually the Leafs should have a fairly solid defense. Kaberle and Kubina are a solid, proven pair that played very well together last season. After that, they may not be household names, but Stralman is an emerging young defenseman who played great hockey by the end of the season, Van Ryn could prove to be superior to McCabe if healthy and now that he's in a big hockey market, Ian White could become a more than respectable powerplay specialist while Jeff Finger, although overpaid considering his lack of experience, played some solid hockey for the Avalanche.

I still think the Leafs could surprise many, including their management, if they let the kids play and with some decent coaching. They're not contenders, but they could battle for a playoff spot until the end.

And when Colaiacovo's healthy he can be a second pairing defenceman even at his age.

[dlbalr]

They have no "veterans" worth keeping other than Kaberle, they already tried to trade Kubina twice. Antropov, Steen, Bell and Stajan are only 3rd and 4th line guys.....Blake is a good 2nd line forward and PP guy, but in no way gonna carry a team on his back. They have a back up goaltender as a #1, and unless they decide to play in the free agent market next summer, there is no way this team will be competitive in under 5 years.

If they truly wanted to move Kubina, they would have before August 15th, when his NTC was non-existent (due to the team missing the playoffs).

Their defence isn't as bad as some may say, but their forwards will be their downfall, unless Wilson can teach guys like Grabovski how to play an effective trap.

[lazy26]

how does Van Ryn improve the team ?? he's already at his 3rd team( leafs would be 4th) and he never made a niche on a roster. being the odd man out of Florida tells me alot. he's a 6th Dman on a bad team at best.

Van Ryn improves the Leafs by providing some defensive stability and some grit. I'm not a believer that multiple teams necessarily equals poor player. Being traded doesn't mean he's bad... just that he may have trade value or that he may not fit into the long term plans. I'm not saying he's a superstar, but the post I was replying to had completely omitted Van Ryn from the list of TO's defensemen. My point was that he's certainly better than nothing, and that he merits mentioning.

[johnnyhasbeen]

I just hope to see the leafs surprise and challenge until a couple weeks left for the last playoff spot taking around 10th in the East, 9th would be better. 40 MORE YEARS !!!!!!

As the talent Nazi , "No talent for you! Step away from the podium! Next !"

I would love to see the BlackHawks win before the buds.

How can they rebuild without a better ownership, management plan. Not the GM, but overall team game plan from above has kept this francise screwed for 40 odd years, please don't ever sell, unless you find someone even worse than Ballard or the teachers!

Q: Does ownership really have the balls in Toronto to do what they should and finish dead last?

That should be the only objective on ice this year for that team.

I say it won't happen.

They need top 5 picks 2 years in a row, problem is, they are rebuilding without many players that will draw interest come deadline. Hard to pick up someones top pick for an average d-man.

And what makes anyone think the would waive thier no trade clause this year when they didn't last year?

This team is in trouble for a while yet, and I for one LOVE IT!!!!

Point is, they need a fire sale, but barely have stock for a yard sale!

Edited September 9, 2008 by johnnyhasbeen

[JoeLassister]

It has been a while they did not trade a first pick... This is called improvment !

[MAK]

It has been a while they did not trade a first pick... This is called improvment !

giving us a 2nd rounder for Grabovski was basically trading a 1st rounder

[JoeLassister]

[CerebusClone]

giving us a 2nd rounder for Grabovski was basically trading a 1st rounder

Although that's one guy who could end being worth that 2nd round pick. I really wish we had given him a real chance in Montreal. He basically just needs to gain a little bit of strength, and ajust his game to the NHL level. Once he did that in the AHL, he was dominant just like Datsyuk become dominant once he learned to do the same thing in Detroit.

Grabovsky and Datsyuk a re very similar in many ways... the difference so far is that Datsyuk had the chance to grow up within the best organisation in the NHL, and was given every chance to suceed. Now, he's even considered as a gritty player, and one of the best defensive forwards in the game!?!

[MAK]

Although that's one guy who could end being worth that 2nd round pick. I really wish we had given him a real chance in Montreal. He basically just needs to gain a little bit of strength, and ajust his game to the NHL level. Once he did that in the AHL, he was dominant just like Datsyuk become dominant once he learned to do the same thing in Detroit.

Grabovsky and Datsyuk a re very similar in many ways... the difference so far is that Datsyuk had the chance to grow up within the best organisation in the NHL, and was given every chance to suceed. Now, he's even considered as a gritty player, and one of the best defensive forwards in the game!?!

Its unfortunate but thats the law of the game. some players will have a fair shot and some wont.

Locke didn't have a great chance either because they were both small offensive centermen. will they shine in their new respective teams ?? time will tell I guess. If so good for them.

Do I think that Grabovski and Datsyuk are very similar ?? one is a star and one is an aging prospect with decent NHL numbers.

I really think that Grabovski blew it when he went crying at his agent's house.

[CerebusClone]

Its unfortunate but thats the law of the game. some players will have a fair shot and some wont.

Locke didn't have a great chance either because they were both small offensive centermen. will they shine in their new respective teams ?? time will tell I guess. If so good for them.

Do I think that Grabovski and Datsyuk are very similar ?? one is a star and one is an aging prospect with decent NHL numbers.

I really think that Grabovski blew it when he went crying at his agent's house.

Actually, I meant more in the sense that they were very similar at the time they each cross over to North America. Similar skills, similar size, similar results in Russian leagues, similar path to the North American pro hockey ...

[Easy Ryder]

Biggest difference between Datsyuk and Grabovski is anticipation and overall ice vision.

It is a hell of a difference in the world fastest league and smaller ice.

Even at the IIHF2008 in Quebec city Grabovski could not distinguish himself over his fellow country men.

The second rounder of the Leafs means a 31-33th choice overall, just watch what Timmins will pick us with that

[JMMR]

Its unfortunate but thats the law of the game. some players will have a fair shot and some wont.

Locke didn't have a great chance either because they were both small offensive centermen. will they shine in their new respective teams ?? time will tell I guess. If so good for them.

Do I think that Grabovski and Datsyuk are very similar ?? one is a star and one is an aging prospect with decent NHL numbers.

I really think that Grabovski blew it when he went crying at his agent's house.

Locke's only game against the Blackhawks he look uninspired and showed little energy.

He only got called up for that game because of the equipment mishap in New York.

[CerebusClone]

Biggest difference between Datsyuk and Grabovski is anticipation and overall ice vision.

It is a hell of a difference in the world fastest league and smaller ice.

Even at the IIHF2008 in Quebec city Grabovski could not distinguish himself over his fellow country men.

The second rounder of the Leafs means a 31-33th choice overall, just watch what Timmins will pick us with that

You are comparing Grabovsky to today's Pavel Datsyuk, I remember most people were laughing at the idea of Datsyuk being a top 2 centre for the Red Wings, and thought he only put up points because of his wingers (ex. Shanahan).

He did put up 7 points in 12 games after being recalled in late February and playing more regularly, and this despite limited ice-time, and continuous line shuffling. Also, Grabovsky has been quite dominant in recent past for Belarus at the WC, this year was the first time he didn't do as well, and that team is far from being a powerhouse in international competiton.

I'm not saying he will become the next Datsyuk, but they were very similar players coming to North America. If he gets a real shot in Toronto, and he probably will since they're a little desperate and they sacrified a high 2rn rounder for him, he could at least become a good offensive specialist.

[MAK]

Locke's only game against the Blackhawks he look uninspired and showed little energy.

He only got called up for that game because of the equipment mishap in New York.

hehe remember andrei kostitsyn 1st game ?? the poor lad never touched the ice except for the pre game warm up....thats harsh !!

[lazy26]

Looks like they're pencilling in Grabs as the first line C in training camp!

[Jean]

I really think that Grabovski blew it when he went crying at his agent's house.

I agree 100% with that. Gainey is not the type of man to tolerate such immature antics.

The second rounder of the Leafs means a 31-33th choice overall, just watch what Timmins will pick us with that

Didnt we traded that pick for Lang?

Edited September 22, 2008 by Jean

[MAK]

I agree 100% with that. Gainey is not the type of man to tolerate such immature antics.

Didnt we traded that pick for Lang?

at the time the comment was made, montreal still had the pick. the trade happened the day after.

[CerebusClone]

I agree 100% with that. Gainey is not the type of man to tolerate such immature antics.

Although I'm also wondering what promises Bob Gainey made to Grabovski to convince him to stay in Montreal instead of signing in Russia; he wouldn't be the first player to feel that he wasn't given the opportunity, there was also Samsonv and even Jamie Rivers who said he was told when he signed he would be given a genuine opportunity to stay in Montreal, at least as a reserve player, when it was obvious that he had no chance in hell.

Regardless of what he was told, Grabovski was unhappy with the Canadiens, and felt he was never foing to be given a genuine chance, which is why he wanted out; he re-iterated that again last week at the Leafs training camp. He's noe very happy, espcially since the plan is for him to play with fellow Russians Antropov and Ponikarovsky, who were asked to take Grabs under their giant wings. The Leafs seem to believe in Grabovski, and I do hope he proves Carbonneau and his many other doubters wrong.

[bombTHEice]

From a reserve player to a 1st line centre ...? The Leafs are really in trouble ...

As good as Grabovski can be, he won't be a 1st line centre, never.

[CerebusClone]

From a reserve player to a 1st line centre ...? The Leafs are really in trouble ...

As good as Grabovski can be, he won't be a 1st line centre, never.

That's what people used to say about Pavel Datsyuk... first he wans't nearly big or good enough, then he only produced because of his linemates (ex. Shanahan, Hull, ...), and eventually people ran out of excuses... although we canstill wonder whether he would look as good outside the nearly flawless Detroit system (Sergei Fedorov didn't).

Would I bet 10K that Grabovski will be a successful offensive centre in the NHL? Of course not. However he does have some great skills, he quickly dominated the AHL once he had time to adjust his game, and now he will be given every opportunity to the the same in the NHL with the Leafs.