Series Discussion: Habs vs Bruins

[dlbalr]

Our series preview is up. There may be a few more chiming in with their thoughts for the mailbag/predictions portion later on, I'll make a note of it here when that happens.

http://www.habsworld...cle.php?id=2456

That was fast. We now have responses from 4 writers (with another to come sometime tonight/early tomorrow as well).

[Wamsley01]

I am getting tired of hearing that Price has to pull a Halak to win the series.

I don't see any indication that the Habs will be outshot 3-1 every night. Last season they played a team that was 35 points ahead of them and a +91 goal differential.

This season it is 7 points and half the goal differential difference.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

I am getting tired of hearing that Price has to pull a Halak to win the series.

I don't see any indication that the Habs will be outshot 3-1 every night. Last season they played a team that was 35 points ahead of them and a +91 goal differential.

This season it is 7 points and half the goal differential difference.

In the first place, while Halak was stellar, the Habs did a truly unbelievable job of collapsing down low, minimizing repeat opportunities, and counter-punching. It's NOT as though Halak was on his own out there. But anyway: the issue, Wamsley, is that the media has long ago decided that the Habs are mediocrities, despite significant evidence to the contrary. Add to that the bizarre phenomenon of ridiculously biased fans of rival teams being paid as professional 'analysts' and you get a general media tendency to dismiss the canadiens. I hear this stuff on the radio all the time. 'Price should win the Hart, because with that team in front of him...blah blah blah.' Sure.

Still, it's obvious that the Bruins should be rated favourites going into this series. They are widely regarded as Cup contenders, they have a huge physical advantage, they have a Norris-trophy defenceman (Chara) and the slick Kaberle, the statistically insane Thomas AND an impressive array of depth at FW. Having said that, there's favourites and then there's favourites. Everything we know suggests the Habs can play with these guys and beat them with some regularity, and anyone who simply dismisses the canadiens in this series is simply not paying attention. Like I said before, the Bs may win, but we will be full value. I'm looking forward to a long, exciting series.

[BrenDittero]

With regards to the Canadiens and their playoff ability, have the media / experts always treated the Habs like a second rate team?

For example, what was the media climate like back in '86 going into the playoffs? Then again in '93?

Is there a sort of 'ground zero' for when the Habs began to be written off?

Do people in the sports journalism profession actually take a look at the team year to year or is there a permanent shadow cast over the Habs based on bias?

Just curious about your opinions.

[Wamsley01]

With regards to the Canadiens and their playoff ability, have the media / experts always treated the Habs like a second rate team?

For example, what was the media climate like back in '86 going into the playoffs? Then again in '93?

Is there a sort of 'ground zero' for when the Habs began to be written off?

Do people in the sports journalism profession actually take a look at the team year to year or is there a permanent shadow cast over the Habs based on bias?

Just curious about your opinions.

In 86 I am sure they were treated as massive underdogs, but they should have been. They were starting a roster full of rookies and finished 25 points behind the Flyers and 30 plus behind the two time champion OIlers. That was in the middle of the dynasty run where the Flyers, Habs, Islanders and Oilers were the only champions over a 12 year period. With the Oilers still in their early 20s it was actually understandable why nobody would pay attention to the Habs.

In 1993 the stories seemed the same, but they weren't. The Habs lead the NHL standings with 18 games to go and struggled down the stretch blowing a double digit lead in points in their division to fall to 3rd. As the media still does today (see Buffalo/Philly) they pumped up the teams who did well down the stretch and buried the teams who struggled to finish the season. So the Habs were underrated entering the playoffs. The Bruins who had won 17 of 20 were a favourite and went down in 4 straight.

The media underrated them, but they shouldn't have. From 1984-1993 the Habs were a perennial 95+ point team (no free point era) and had won a Cup, lost in the Finals and made two conference finals. They weren't the mediocre middle of the pack team they are today. So although they have historically attempted to minimize the 93 Cup, the Habs were still a respected franchise that always contended for the Cup, like the Wings are viewed today.

Since they collapsed in the late 90s they have not recaptured the contender respect. Add the bias to it and you get ridiculous analysis that takes shots at them at every attempt.

[Wamsley01]

In the first place, while Halak was stellar, the Habs did a truly unbelievable job of collapsing down low, minimizing repeat opportunities, and counter-punching. It's NOT as though Halak was on his own out there. But anyway: the issue, Wamsley, is that the media has long ago decided that the Habs are mediocrities, despite significant evidence to the contrary. Add to that the bizarre phenomenon of ridiculously biased fans of rival teams being paid as professional 'analysts' and you get a general media tendency to dismiss the canadiens. I hear this stuff on the radio all the time. 'Price should win the Hart, because with that team in front of him...blah blah blah.' Sure.

Still, it's obvious that the Bruins should be rated favourites going into this series. They are widely regarded as Cup contenders, they have a huge physical advantage, they have a Norris-trophy defenceman (Chara) and the slick Kaberle, the statistically insane Thomas AND an impressive array of depth at FW. Having said that, there's favourites and then there's favourites. Everything we know suggests the Habs can play with these guys and beat them with some regularity, and anyone who simply dismisses the canadiens in this series is simply not paying attention. Like I said before, the Bs may win, but we will be full value. I'm looking forward to a long, exciting series.

The Bruins are favourites because the media views things through an old perspective, a 6 and a 3 seed seems like a wide divide, but last season the team with home ice advantage after round one was the 4th seeded Penguins. Seeds 4,6,7,8 survived round one and the 7th seed was within an OT goal of Game 7 of the Stanley Cup Finals. Add them to the 6 seeded Flames in 04 and the 8th seeded Oilers in 06 and it doesn't seem like an anomaly anymore for a lower seed to win a short series.

A 7 point difference in a league where 3 points are available every night is miniscule, reduce the sample size to 7 games and it is meaningless.

[bar]

According to Louis Jean of Sportsnet, Halpern is very unlikely to play in game 1, Halpern is skating with the yellow "do not hit" jersey on.

[dlbalr]

1 more writer offers up his picks in our series preview on the main page. I'm still the only one who picked Boston and that was, at least in part, due to the fact everyone else picked the Habs.

[brobin]

I don't think the Bruins are viewed as winning because they are a 3rd seed. I think most pundits have written off Philly due to their recent play and no Pronger. They view Pitts and missing Malkin and Crosby and therefore not favored. Most are viewing Boston and Washington as the top two seeds from the east and for that I don't blame them. Its not just about points, its about how you are playing down the stretch, the injury situation, etc.

The knocks against Montreal are valid. We have been so-so for a while now. We are missing Darche and Pacs. They are suspicious that Gill, Spacek, and Hammer are not fully healthy. Our offense is challenged to score. Therefore, most said that Price has to steal a few games and Boston has to be stupid enough to keep heading to the penalty box. If its a speed game, we win. If it is a slow hitting game, advantage Bruins. I think that is bang on. It doesn't mean we can't win, but it is not the likely outcome, given what we know right now.

Remember, most are picking Buffalo to upset Philly, so it is not just about standings. We will know a lot more after we see a game or so. Does Montreal step up their game? Does Gomez suddenly look better? Do we have a unexpected playoff hero (Eller, Pouliot, Des). These things can change the "power rankings" quite quickly.

[Wamsley01]

I don't think the Bruins are viewed as winning because they are a 3rd seed. I think most pundits have written off Philly due to their recent play and no Pronger. They view Pitts and missing Malkin and Crosby and therefore not favored. Most are viewing Boston and Washington as the top two seeds from the east and for that I don't blame them. Its not just about points, its about how you are playing down the stretch, the injury situation, etc.

The knocks against Montreal are valid. We have been so-so for a while now. We are missing Darche and Pacs. They are suspicious that Gill, Spacek, and Hammer are not fully healthy. Our offense is challenged to score. Therefore, most said that Price has to steal a few games and Boston has to be stupid enough to keep heading to the penalty box. If its a speed game, we win. If it is a slow hitting game, advantage Bruins. I think that is bang on. It doesn't mean we can't win, but it is not the likely outcome, given what we know right now.

Remember, most are picking Buffalo to upset Philly, so it is not just about standings. We will know a lot more after we see a game or so. Does Montreal step up their game? Does Gomez suddenly look better? Do we have a unexpected playoff hero (Eller, Pouliot, Des). These things can change the "power rankings" quite quickly.

Ending a season on a run is not indicative of playoff success. The Flyers finished 2010 with a 4-8-2 record and the Devils were 7-3-4.

The Blackhawks finished up 8-6-2 and the Predators finished up at 11-2-1. Irrelevant to the final result.

Was last season a strange season? Sure it was, but feel free to go over the archives, it isn't indicative of post-season success how well you enter the playoffs. I am not just cherry picking one year and saying look at this, ignore everything else.

I can create knocks against the Bruins that can put doubt into their testicular fortitude and play up Montreal's. Apron Basu did exactly that today.

http://montreal.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20110413/mtl_habshub_habit_110412/20110413/?hub=MontrealSports

If Montreal wins I will not be surprised, if the Bruins win, I will not be surprised. I cannot wrap my head around the fan attitude that would doubt a team that defied all belief less than one year ago. That defied all belief when the fan base buried them in December and defied all belief when the fan base was worried they might not win 1 of their final 4 games to make the playoffs and they went 3-0-1.

Halak gone. Keep on winning. Markov out. Keep on winning. Gorges out. Keep on winning. Pacioretty decapitated. Keep on winning.

This attitude is going to change with every game. Scapegoating, complaints, excuses, coaching and goaltending blame, complaining about officials is going to make up this board over the next 2 weeks. Go back and look at the attitudes in the first round last spring.

Game 1. Exuberance and elation.

Game 2. Disappointment and blame.

Game 3 and 4. Acceptance of defeat.

Game 5. Hope returns.

Game 6. Belief returns and shock.

Game 7. Exuberance and elation.

I have watched too many unexpected things happen over 30 years to be swayed by some minor advantages by the Bruins (if that).

[SOOPAVILLIN]

Well it's time for me to watch the the Rocket Richard movie, and remind him that the Playoffs are starting and we could use his blessing.

[Chips]

Game 1. Exuberance and elation.

Game 2. Disappointment and blame.

Game 3 and 4. Acceptance of defeat.

Game 5. Hope returns.

Game 6. Belief returns and shock.

Game 7. Exuberance and elation.

I have watched too many unexpected things happen over 30 years to be swayed by some minor advantages by the Bruins (if that).

[johnnyhasbeen]

My prediction.... Habs in 5 and the Bruins don't score until game 3.

The refs call everything in game 1 resulting in 4 PP goals and a 6-0 blow out.

Game 2 Boston does a good job of being more disciplined, but Price steals a 2-0 win.

Game 3 Bruins finally hit the board midway through the 2nd, but lose 3-1

Game 4 facing a sweep the bruins play desperate hockey and eek out a 3-2 win.

Game 5 Boston tries goon tactics at home once agiain and get destroyed on the PP 4-1 Habs

[Habsfan]

In case anyone cares...I heard on the radio this morning that all 26 Boston Pizza restaurants in Greater Montreal will be renamed "Montreal Pizza" for the duration of the first round against the pooh bears!

What a nice gesture by Boston Pizza!

[Toronthab]

Well it's time for me to watch the the Rocket Richard movie, and remind him that the Playoffs are starting and we could use his blessing.

Amen!

[Toronthab]

My prediction.... Habs in 5 and the Bruins don't score until game 3.

The refs call everything in game 1 resulting in 4 PP goals and a 6-0 blow out.

Game 2 Boston does a good job of being more disciplined, but Price steals a 2-0 win.

Game 3 Bruins finally hit the board midway through the 2nd, but lose 3-1

Game 4 facing a sweep the bruins play desperate hockey and eek out a 3-2 win.

Game 5 Boston tries goon tactics at home once agiain and get destroyed on the PP 4-1 Habs

Now that's what I call b alls!

I am such a whuss by comparison. Lead on!

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Thinking about this series - admittedly, influenced by Game One, which may not turn out to be representative - I believe the 'experts' are wrong for a specific reason. The Bruins are supposed to be just too big and bad for puny Montreal to handle. However, it's not just size that matters, but matchups. Boston has big, physical forwards, but other than Chara they are NOT particularly huge or intimidating on the blueline. Now look at the Habs. We have small forwards, but our blueline is anything but small. Hammer is big. Gill is a hulk. PK is built like a brick outhouse. Spacek, while not huge, is also robust. Mara is tough. Sopel is a rock. And so forth.

What this means is that, without denying the physical impressiveness of the Bruins up front, our D is in fact quite unlikely to be overwhelemed by them on any kind of regular basis. And at the other end, because the B's D is not particularly intimidating (apart from Chara), our forwards aren't likely to be physically dominated down low or around the net on a consistent basis either, especially factoring in our speed.

The kind of team that will give Montreal real trouble is a team with a big, suffocating defence corps, a la Philadelphia, and perhaps a team with super fast forwards. THEN our size really hurts us because they can just crush the life out of the Cammys and Giontas, while the speed overwhelms a D whose mobility is adequate but not elite. But the distribution of size among the rosters is wrong for Boston. Their supposed 'size advantage' really doesn't turn out to be all that great.

All told, then, this might explain why Boston has had such a hard time with Montreal this season despite their seeming advantages on paper. And if I'm right, Habs fans do indeed have every reason to confident that we can play with these guys and quite possibly beat them.

[patience is a virtue]

Is it too soon to start looking beyond this series? I don't think so. CC analysis of size dynamics, plus the 6-2 2010-11 record to date give me confidence that Montreal will win this series, sooner or later. I sincerely hope it is in 4, because more rest is better for the battered Habs.

At this point my attention is on Phucktards-Sabres. If Buffalo wins we play the winner of Pitts-TB. I like either of those match ups. If Philly wins we play the Caps (presuming things proceed as they have begun vs. the Rags). I'd rather hold off as long possible on facing the re-tooled Caps. By the time the ECF rolls around Max Pac should, hopefully, be back in the line up and in game shape. Hopefully. Not to mention AK - I sure hope he didn't fracture a bone. Friggin' Chara. And who knows, the deeper we go, the higher the chance that Markov might return, however slim the chance may be.

OK, back to reality - Monday on the Island will be intense. I firmly believe that the veteran leaders and coaches on the Habs have the boys highly focused. I expect a sweep, or else Habs in 6. I can't see winning another game in Boston if they break the ice with a victory in Montreal.

But the Habs are in the Bruins heads and Claude Julien looked like he was losing control of the situation on the bench tonight. I, for one, highly appreciate JM's calm and collected steady as she goes coaching style.

[JoeLassister]

Is it too soon to start looking beyond this series? I don't think so. CC analysis of size dynamics, plus the 6-2 2010-11 record to date give me confidence that Montreal will win this series, sooner or later. I sincerely hope it is in 4, because more rest is better for the battered Habs.

At this point my attention is on Phucktards-Sabres. If Buffalo wins we play the winner of Pitts-TB. I like either of those match ups. If Philly wins we play the Caps (presuming things proceed as they have begun vs. the Rags). I'd rather hold off as long possible on facing the re-tooled Caps. By the time the ECF rolls around Max Pac should, hopefully, be back in the line up and in game shape. Hopefully. Not to mention AK - I sure hope he didn't fracture a bone. Friggin' Chara. And who knows, the deeper we go, the higher the chance that Markov might return, however slim the chance may be.

OK, back to reality - Monday on the Island will be intense. I firmly believe that the veteran leaders and coaches on the Habs have the boys highly focused. I expect a sweep, or else Habs in 6. I can't see winning another game in Boston if they break the ice with a victory in Montreal.

But the Habs are in the Bruins heads and Claude Julien looked like he was losing control of the situation on the bench tonight. I, for one, highly appreciate JM's calm and collected steady as she goes coaching style.

Coming from a guy called "Patience is a virue". Funny.

[BrenDittero]

I like the tact that the Habs themselves are taking with regards to this series. One game at a time, let's not get too far ahead of ourselves. 2 wins is not 4.

Don't get me wrong I'm really excited and confident in our team but as we all know " on any night, anything can happen "

Lets win round 1 and go from there.

It's been an outstanding 2 games though. Defiantly worth a dancing banana, which doesn't seem to be working right now.

[dlbalr]

It's been an outstanding 2 games though. Defiantly worth a dancing banana, which doesn't seem to be working right now.

I told you the dancing banana was legendary...

[BrenDittero]

I told you the dancing banana was legendary...

I'm not a big emoticon fan but the banana is pretty great. Don't see it in pulldown list anymore though.

This one works in a pinch.

[dlbalr]

I'm not a big emoticon fan but the banana is pretty great. Don't see it in pulldown list anymore though.

This one works in a pinch.

You need to click 'Show All' to see it. When I had it in the first list that you see, it kept freezing so I had to pull it from there. It's actually the only smiley that you need to go into 'Show All' to get to it, though I may change that at some point.

Edit: Now I have set it so that there are more smileys that you have to click on Show All to see, plus added a new one.

[BrenDittero]

Haha. The bruins should be very.....

[johnnyhasbeen]

My prediction.... Habs in 5 and the Bruins don't score until game 3.

The refs call everything in game 1 resulting in 4 PP goals and a 6-0 blow out.

Game 2 Boston does a good job of being more disciplined, but Price steals a 2-0 win.

Game 3 Bruins finally hit the board midway through the 2nd, but lose 3-1

Game 4 facing a sweep the bruins play desperate hockey and eek out a 3-2 win.

Game 5 Boston tries goon tactics at home once agiain and get destroyed on the PP 4-1 Habs

I seem to be off by a game.......