2012 NHL Entry Draft talk

[REV-G]

Pronman ranked Landeskog 13 last year, and has quite a few strange ranks. Theres' a reason for this. Pronman totally discounted all of Landeskog's intangibles, his clutch play, his heart, his leadership, and his amazing work ethic and desire to improve. As we learned Colorado got it right, this kid is a STUD. I strongly disagreed with his rank of Landeskog last year, among others.

Here is what you need to remember about Pronman, and hockeyprospectus. They are stats geeks, they believe in the "moneyball" concept of hockey;s advanced statistics and believe that if all leagues kept stats like the NHL does on Corsi, and those type of things, you'd be able to draft based on those. Other leagues don't keep those stats, so Pronman watches the prospects with them in mind and how well the player would do in those categories.

He also doesn't believe in intangibles. He doesn't believe in a player's character affecting his ranking of him. He uses only what happens on the ice and not whether the player is a leader, or whether he gives his effort every game. He assumes that character, heart, grit, and clutch play are made up concepts because they don't show up in the advanced stats.

So the fact that Pronman ranks Galchenyuk third, and onlyh 1 spot behind Grigorenko should tell you two things.

1) He believes Galchenyuk's skill level is less than Grigorenko, but not a significant amount. He has Galchenyuk as the third most talented player in the draft.

2) Despite the fact that he ignores Galchenyuk's best attributes, and the areas where he blows Grigorenko out of the water.... heart, desire, work ethic, and character, he's only 1 spot back.

Factor in Gally's dedication and I think you've got the better player down the road. The player most likely to see a dramatic improvement in his game because he's always willing to work to get better. We've seen what this kind of work ethic has meant for two of our current players... PK Subban and Tomas Plekanec, who were lower draft picks and have really taken their game to levels no one expected when they were drafted. We've also seen what happens when you have a ton of talent but lack that, see Andrei Kostitsyn. So to me, I take Galchenyuk for sure.

I agree wholeheartedly! Mike Boone has a good article in the Gazette today about the Canadiens #3 pick and he says HE LOVES Alex Galchenyuk and hopes our new GM picks him. Boone suggests that we google Alex Galchenyuk's name and read what many are saying about him. Plus he's a center and as you already pointed out a fitness nut and is working very hard in order to get better. He would be my choice for us hands down. The only question would be how well he has recovered from his knee injury. I think he is what we need and if he is available, my money is on us drafting him.

[Willey101]

I agree wholeheartedly! Mike Boone has a good article in the Gazette today about the Canadiens #3 pick and he says HE LOVES Alex Galchenyuk and hopes our new GM picks him. Boone suggests that we google Alex Galchenyuk's name and read what many are saying about him. Plus he's a center and as you already pointed out a fitness nut and is working very hard in order to get better. He would be my choice for us hands down. The only question would be how well he has recovered from his knee injury. I think he is what we need and if he is available, my money is on us drafting him.

Personally I am torn between Galchenyuk and Murray. I know we've stockpiled D but he appears to be better than them all.

[DON]

I think if you want thrower, you need to grab him at 32.

Unless we see massive slippage of all the defencemen.

You mean 34th of course (where you guys have him, or did you concede to the lower spot?)

As much as he is a good pick, there will still be lots of others to pick from, right through our 4th (64th) pick, if Timmins hasnt swung a deal by then.

[dlbalr]

You mean 34th of course (where you guys have him, or did you concede to the lower spot?)

As much as he is a good pick, there will still be lots of others to pick from, right through our 4th (64th) pick, if Timmins hasnt swung a deal by then.

I think he meant 32. The Habs pick 33rd as it stands. However, with New Jersey making the Conference Finals, they're likely to forfeit their 1st rounder (part of the Kovalchuk circumvention penalty) meaning that the Habs would be picking 32nd.

[DON]

I think he meant 32. The Habs pick 33rd as it stands. However, with New Jersey making the Conference Finals, they're likely to forfeit their 1st rounder (part of the Kovalchuk circumvention penalty) meaning that the Habs would be picking 32nd.

thanks

Sweet, 32nd!

How bout Nashville's pick, is that settled now? 32nd, 53rd and 63rd should be about right? or not quite set in stone till season completed totally?

[dlbalr]

thanks

Sweet, 32nd!

How bout Nashville's pick, is that settled now? 32nd, 53rd and 63rd should be about right? or not quite set in stone till season completed totally?

Nashville's will be set once the Washington-Rangers series ends. If Washington wins the series, the pick will go up a spot.

[Commandant]

You mean 34th of course (where you guys have him, or did you concede to the lower spot?)

As much as he is a good pick, there will still be lots of others to pick from, right through our 4th (64th) pick, if Timmins hasnt swung a deal by then.

Habs pick will be 32.... the Devils are almost guaranteed to forfeit their first rounder now. Thats what I meant by, if you want him, take him at 32. I don't think he'll be around for Nashville's pick.

Tim Bozon, one of my personal favorites.

http://lastwordonsports.com/2012/05/10/nhl-draft-prospect-profile-35-tim-bozon/

[DON]

Habs pick will be 32.... the Devils are almost guaranteed to forfeit their first rounder now. Thats what I meant by, if you want him, take him at 32. I don't think he'll be around for Nashville's pick.

Tim Bozon, one of my personal favorites.

http://lastwordonspo...e-35-tim-bozon/

36 goals as rookie was very well done and Habs are not shy to go after Swiss players.

I had kind of equated him to maybe a David Perron, skilled, good skater and super around the net, average size.

And he stands out as a possible steal in 2nd round? Habs can use more top 6 skilled offensive prospects for sure.

[Commandant]

From the D factory known as the Kelowna Rockets... Damon Severson

http://lastwordonsports.com/2012/05/11/nhl-draft-prospect-profile-36-damon-severson/

[thehabbit]

Habs pick will be 32.... the Devils are almost guaranteed to forfeit their first rounder now. Thats what I meant by, if you want him, take him at 32. I don't think he'll be around for Nashville's pick.

Tim Bozon, one of my personal favorites.

http://lastwordonspo...e-35-tim-bozon/

Chants of BoZo, BoZo!!! fill the Bell Centre

[DON]

Chants of BoZo, BoZo!!! fill the Bell Centre

Good one!

I think a 2nd line of Bozon-Galchenyuk-Gallagher could be a very popular and productive one in 2 or 3 years?

[bbp]

Good one!

I think a 2nd line of Bozon-Galchenyuk-Gallagher could be a very popular and productive one in 2 or 3 years?

Two Gally's and a Bozo... People being called Bozos for mixing up their Gallys? I think so.

[KamalPanesar]

Personally I am torn between Galchenyuk and Murray. I know we've stockpiled D but he appears to be better than them all.

I'm a fan of the Galchenyuk pick too but wouldn't rule out Forsberg (if he's still available). There really are a lot of different players Montreal could draft but Galchenyuk certainly addresses a bunch of needs.

[Commandant]

Tanner Pearson

http://lastwordonsports.com/2012/05/12/nhl-draft-prospect-profile-37-tanner-pearson/

[Commandant]

Oscar Dansk

http://lastwordonsports.com/2012/05/13/nhl-draft-prospect-profile-38-oscar-dansk/

[ForumGhost]

Button's new rankings up. Murray and Trouba at 12 & 13 respectively... He's either or stupid or trying to draw attention to himself.

[thib46]

I must admit I do not have a great deal of knowledge about the prospects for the next NHL draft, I enjoy reading about the players and all the discussion on the players. Recently of L'antichambre, Vincent Damphouse was talking about his viewing of the under 18 world championship and he said the player that impressed him the most was Dumba. He said he was the leading scorer and playing defense, he also mentioned he hits like a train and plays excellent defense. Coming from Damphouse I take that type of information as eye opening. I also think strong goal tending and strong defense wins championship. Building for the long term with defense, remember the big three in Montreal. Look at the defense this year for the Rangers. I do not know who Montreal will pick but I would not be upset if Montreal picked a player like Dumba or Murray. Just saying.

[Commandant]

I really don't know what Damphousse was watching to say Dumba plays excellent defense. He's great offensively, and he hits like a truck, I agree with those two, but his defensive game needs a ton of work. He really lacks defensive instincts, and he gets himself in trouble a lot over extending looking for the big hit or for a steal and to jump to offense.

[Commandant]

Scott Laughton

http://lastwordonsports.com/2012/05/14/nhl-draft-prospect-profile-39-scott-laughton/

[TruthMonger]

Button's new rankings up. Murray and Trouba at 12 & 13 respectively... He's either or stupid or trying to draw attention to himself.

Are those the new rankings? That's where they sat for the April rankings and on TSN it says that his next rankings aren't due until tomorrow (May 15).

[DON]

I really don't know what Damphousse was watching to say Dumba plays excellent defense. He's great offensively, and he hits like a truck, I agree with those two, but his defensive game needs a ton of work. He really lacks defensive instincts, and he gets himself in trouble a lot over extending looking for the big hit or for a steal and to jump to offense.

But (as a Dumba promoter) Dumba has already spoken about his defensive liabilities and recognizes it is his weak aspect.

And they say defense is something that can be taught (in AHL), and Subban is one example of a very similar player, who now dosent take himself out of position to make the big hit; as much anymore and is learning the defensive side of game.

But Dumba, has all that cant be taught, skating, puck skills, offensive instincts, open-ice hitting, leadership and he is very tough kid for his size, so if Timmmins called his name at #3 (which i think unlikely) i would be very happy, but still would prefer slightly Galchenyuk.

[thib46]

The information you provided is one of the reasons I enjoy reading this forum. I do not know the players and do not have the opportunity to see them and it is appreciated when a person with knowledge about the player makes a great well written input about a player. Thanks you for the added information.

[Commandant]

But (as a Dumba promoter) Dumba has already spoken about his defensive liabilities and recognizes it is his weak aspect.

And they say defense is something that can be taught (in AHL), and Subban is one example of a very similar player, who now dosent take himself out of position to make the big hit; as much anymore and is learning the defensive side of game.

But Dumba, has all that cant be taught, skating, puck skills, offensive instincts, open-ice hitting, leadership and he is very tough kid for his size, so if Timmmins called his name at #3 (which i think unlikely) i would be very happy, but still would prefer slightly Galchenyuk.

I agree it can be taught, and Dumba is ahead of Subban at the same age. Subban was really bad as a 17 year old. What I will say though is that Subban's progression is pretty rare, while its possible to improve, it shouldn't be expected that Dumba will have the same learning curve Subban did, because that kind of improvement from where he was at 17, to what he was just 2 years later a top defensive D in the OHL, to what he learned in Hamilton, to today, is pretty remarkable. Almost unprecedented the speed at which all aspects of his game developped. A testament to Subban's hard work IMO (and one of the reasons I want another crazy workout/practice guy in Galchenyuk).

Dumba may improve, but I doubt its at the same rate. I still think he's a good prospect and a solid top 5, I just don't agree with the praise heaped on by Damphousse that he plays great defense. He doesn't play great defence right now. Maybe one day, but not right now.

I think Dumbas is in the top 2 defence prospects, but I think Murray is better to be honest. I think the defence of Murray is much better, and there isn't as much difference in offence as the numbers might suggest. Murray has been a dominant player offensively for Team Canada too... he just can't put up the huge points in Everett cause Everett's forwards suck.

[DON]

I agree it can be taught, and Dumba is ahead of Subban at the same age. Subban was really bad as a 17 year old. What I will say though is that Subban's progression is pretty rare, while its possible to improve, it shouldn't be expected that Dumba will have the same learning curve Subban did, because that kind of improvement from where he was at 17, to what he was just 2 years later a top defensive D in the OHL, to what he learned in Hamilton, to today, is pretty remarkable. Almost unprecedented the speed at which all aspects of his game developped. A testament to Subban's hard work IMO (and one of the reasons I want another crazy workout/practice guy in Galchenyuk).

Dumba may improve, but I doubt its at the same rate. I still think he's a good prospect and a solid top 5, I just don't agree with the praise heaped on by Damphousse that he plays great defense. He doesn't play great defence right now. Maybe one day, but not right now.

I think Dumbas is in the top 2 defence prospects, but I think Murray is better to be honest. I think the defence of Murray is much better, and there isn't as much difference in offence as the numbers might suggest. Murray has been a dominant player offensively for Team Canada too... he just can't put up the huge points in Everett cause Everett's forwards suck.

Damphousse is just a RDS guy right? So i wouldnt worry about much he commented on, maybe he is a good guy and all that, but he is not even involved in hockey is he? a new Hab scout??

I almomst totally agree, Dumba's seems a bit lost in own end, but his offense could be super and Murray is what he is, a solid all-round d-man, as someone said, he is like Niedermayer but wont have the offense.

Only time will tell and if Timmins called Murray's name, that would be dandy with me as well. And Bergevin could trade a d-man on JUly 1st to make room for Murray this fall.

I cant remember when the last teenager who suited up and had a good career with Habs was, never?

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Damphousse is just a RDS guy right? So i wouldnt worry about much he commented on, maybe he is a good guy and all that, but he is not even involved in hockey is he? a new Hab scout??

I almomst totally agree, Dumba's seems a bit lost in own end, but his offense could be super and Murray is what he is, a solid all-round d-man, as someone said, he is like Niedermayer but wont have the offense.

Only time will tell and if Timmins called Murray's name, that would be dandy with me as well. And Bergevin could trade a d-man on JUly 1st to make room for Murray this fall.

I cant remember when the last teenager who suited up and had a good career with Habs was, never?

Ribs...Lats. Those are the two that come to mind. Do these constitute 'good careers with the Habs?' Hmmm.