Machine of Loving Grace Posted January 9, 2014 Author Share Posted January 9, 2014 Anyone remember Mike Keenan punishing Alex Kovalev by not letting him leave his long shift? He scored a goal. That should have been a lesson to every coach ever: do your disciplining after the game. The player might make you look dumb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 So you would pull Price if he over played the puck and left the net open on a goal that still keeps Montreal up 2-1 in the playoffs? That's a good one and you're right, I wouldn't in that situation independent of anything else. But goalies are in their own category given that there aren't 5 or 11 other options if someone makes a dumb/bad mistake, and a backup coming in cold is different than moving a forward up a line for a few shifts while a winger gets time to think about what he did. If Price had coughed up a couple of soft ones before your scenario and this made the game 4-3 for the opponent, I probably would though as the accumulation of errors to that point would justify it (it'd also suggest he's having an off-night). Benchings aren't just for one-off events; they can be in the worst of circumstances but multiple dumb moves can certainly also warrant a sit-down. Goaltenders would fall into the latter category. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 The boys on sports net were talking about Therrien benching Subban. MacLean was saying if Subban was to sit at all for the penalty, it should had been for a shift or two. Then you put your best player back on the ice. Missing a couple shifts would let Subban know the penalty was stupid. They also said they could see Subban signing a short term deal... That I think was the correct solution. Subban has had a few of these this year, many of which fortunately went uncalled. 10 minutes was probably a bit on the excessive side. Subban can push for a short-term deal by filing for arbitration, the Habs would then decide if it's a one or two year award. I'm not making any point with that, just tossing that blurb out in case anyone's wondering what the rule is there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 not in Montreal. I know I know sir, fans are fans and just my point of view, that's all. And if I remember correctly, Bowman was very strict with every young player in Montreal and like Therrian was calculated with every move and motivation tactic (and was disliked by some/many of his players for the way he toyed with them, if I am not mistaken) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovett's Magnatones Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 Anyone remember Mike Keenan punishing Alex Kovalev by not letting him leave his long shift? He scored a goal. That should have been a lesson to every coach ever: do your disciplining after the game. The player might make you look dumb. Iron Mike is the Man. He should have sat for two or three shifts, and gone back into the game. If you couple the benching with the refusal to pull the goalie, it's basically a temper tantrum from Therrien. I don't really mind that stuff, but you can only mete out so much discipline. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trizzak Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 And how many times has Habs come back this year in 3rd period with Subban playing? What is more important, a slim chance of winning 1 game in Jan or setting example of selfish actions being untolerated, for long term team/personnal development? I like looking more long term and used to curse Martin for letting Cammalleri-Gomez play 20minutes/night with zero effort and no benching, so i prefer Therrian's approach and agree with the move. I know is no clear cut right/wrong way to 'coach' , but a 10 minute benching isnt end of world. I believe I covered both short-term and long-term in my post. Subban's PIMs are down. He's not as hot-headed as he once was and I think you'll have to look back a long way to find the last really selfish penalty he took. This isn't a green rookie who needs to be taught a lesson. He punched a guy at the end of a period after he was elbowed in the face. Okay, now spend the intermission fueling a fired up Subban by telling him he now owes the team elevated play for the rest of the game. Don't sit your Norris trophy winning, Olympic athlete, All-Star defenseman for half the 3rd period. Long-term, short-term... nothing is being gained. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 I know I know sir, fans are fans and just my point of view, that's all. And if I remember correctly, Bowman was very strict with every young player in Montreal and like Therrian was calculated with every move and motivation tactic (and was disliked by some/many of his players for the way he toyed with them, if I am not mistaken) My question is why does he have to be punished? What is this grade 1 for crying out loud. Is he the only guy to shove another player in a scrum? Hell he wasn't even the only player in that scrum, but the refs will just pull one guy to gain control of the situation. For this you sacrifice the game? It is stupid, I think telling PK hey that was dumm would have accomplished the same or more and we may have still had a shot at the game. Give him a chance to redeem himself. And Don as the old saying goes "Mr Thierrien you are no Scotty Bowman" Hell, if Scotty coached now we would probably rip him a new one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stogey24 Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 That I think was the correct solution. Subban has had a few of these this year, many of which fortunately went uncalled. 10 minutes was probably a bit on the excessive side. Subban can push for a short-term deal by filing for arbitration, the Habs would then decide if it's a one or two year award. I'm not making any point with that, just tossing that blurb out in case anyone's wondering what the rule is there. What do you think, short term? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neech Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 The 'sacrificing 1 game in January that looks unwinnable anyways for long-term lessons' is a valid argument, but as others have pointed, when was PK's last selfish penalty? Why is it PK who gets benched, when other key players were making lazy, stupid plays the whole game (some of which included penalties)? Markov and Pacioretty looked like they had never handled a puck before and had little interest in doing so, Desharnais's inept defensive coverage cost us a goal, Eller took a pointless and dirty slewfoot. At what point does PK get tired of being treated like a teenage rookie? We didn't have this discussion when Galchenyuk was benched for the third after a bad penalty, because of his youth and inexperience. PK has a Norris, he's already a superstar. Unfortunately, I think it will take him finally being paid like one for Therrien give him some slack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovett's Magnatones Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 I still think Therrien deserves a lot of credit, this is basically a 7th-10th place team that rides a few all stars and keeps winning games. They can't even sustain pressure. They'll have another streak like they did awhile back, maybe 2-4 games shorter, but it's going to be one win one loss, two wins one loss, one winning two losses for the rest of the year. I'm not really sure with the inactivity of MB that's going to change, unless Timmons pulls another Subban or Pacioretty out of his hat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 I believe I covered both short-term and long-term in my post. Subban's PIMs are down. He's not as hot-headed as he once was and I think you'll have to look back a long way to find the last really selfish penalty he took. This isn't a green rookie who needs to be taught a lesson. He punched a guy at the end of a period after he was elbowed in the face. Okay, now spend the intermission fueling a fired up Subban by telling him he now owes the team elevated play for the rest of the game. Don't sit your Norris trophy winning, Olympic athlete, All-Star defenseman for half the 3rd period. Long-term, short-term... nothing is being gained. Agree to disagree and yes he has matured 'some', but 'not there yet' and if he had of simply dropped the gloves and took an instigater he wouldnt of sat, but a childish tantrum cheap shot is what it is. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoRP Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Oh the bipolar Habs fans are out with the judgment "fire MT" dance again..... Game was a stinker, whole team was a stinker, not MT's fault the team was that bad last nite, not PK's best game, won't be the last time he gets benched for a spell, nothing really has changed in terms of the line up and really it needs to, We still have Price to steal us some more games, Relax everyone:) Are they going to call up a forward for Sat? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brobin Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 I just don't get to freak out. That was the lightest "benching" I have seen all season. I have seen Eller, Chucky, Briere, etc benched longer for less. We should be far more worried about how shitty the team played. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Yes, with the line up they are icing every night they need everyone playing hard and Price to be outstanding to get any wins. I don't understand all the Subban drama. I was watching leafs and canes and Clarkson got stapled to bench in the 2nd for a long time. Not sure it will be national news. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davehab Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 I just don't get to freak out. That was the lightest "benching" I have seen all season. I have seen Eller, Chucky, Briere, etc benched longer for less. We should be far more worried about how shitty the team played. Agreed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stogey24 Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Yes, with the line up they are icing every night they need everyone playing hard and Price to be outstanding to get any wins. I don't understand all the Subban drama. I was watching leafs and canes and Clarkson got stapled to bench in the 2nd for a long time. Not sure it will be national news. Yeah, that's because Clarkson is garbage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Shouldn't be hard for Habs to get up for Saturdays game. Am curious to see if they will (can) skate with the Hawks and slow down their offense? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PMAC Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 I predict a huge bounce back game from Les Boys and they win 4-2. Maybe even miracles will occur and Rene Bourque will appear as a useful hockey player Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neech Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 It would be nice to get points tomorrow, but I'd be happy if we just gave a solid effort against the Hawks. Our performance over the next couple weeks against conference rivals is more important. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 If they come up with another listless effort after Therrien's pyrotechnics, is it fair to infer that he's losing the team? Just asking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neech Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 It would be hasty, IMO. I think our locker room isn't the type to be lost very easily, with some vocal effort-first vets in Gionta and Gorges, and our only superstar being a fiery blood-and-guts type player. That said, if Therrien's rookie doghouse tactics are finally wearing thin on Subban, we could be in trouble. Hopefully Subban will continue to take the high road past this sort of noise, as he has his whole career. The timing of the contract negotiations are unfortunate, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 It would be hasty, IMO. I think our locker room isn't the type to be lost very easily, with some vocal effort-first vets in Gionta and Gorges, and our only superstar being a fiery blood-and-guts type player. That said, if Therrien's rookie doghouse tactics are finally wearing thin on Subban, we could be in trouble. Hopefully Subban will continue to take the high road past this sort of noise, as he has his whole career. The timing of the contract negotiations are unfortunate, though. I agree about room. Bad timing for Subban you mean? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 What do you think, short term? As to what it would cost? The Habs would almost assuredly elect the one year option (instead of going two and sending him straight to UFA). If he keeps a pace comparable to the current one, I'd say the arbitration award would be in the high 6, low 7 range, not unlike what Shea Weber got in his award a couple years back. It shouldn't be 8+ since it's an RFA year; next year's salary and the one after that should be below that threshold ('15-'16's salary would drift closer to the 8 but likely stay a bit under). Are they going to call up a forward for Sat? I doubt it. Calling up a Blunden isn't going to change anything and it makes no sense to put Leblanc, Holland, Thomas, etc, in a 4th line role. I think we'll see 7/11 again with Prust and Moen playing more of a prominent role than the likes of Bournival and Bourque. Hamilton plays tonight so if there's a surprising scratch, then they may be bringing someone up, we'll know more come game time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neech Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Bad timing for Subban you mean? Yeah, if he is in fact losing patience with Therrien in a major way (which is probably unlikely at this point), then it's not the best time for us to be trying to re-sign him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brobin Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 PK and his agent are not going to base any decision on his feelings for the coach. He is looking at an eight year contract on the team he loves. He is guaranteed to outlast Therrien and has a 95 percent chance of out lasting Bergevin as well. He'll, he might even see a new owner before he is done. PK loves the big stage. There are not many teams he would want to go to. Toronto is perhaps the best option and they can't afford him. If they could get him another year on RFA and then lock him up for 8 years, all the better. I doubt PK wants to risk an injury or bad season when he can get the big contract now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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