Habs vs Leafs, Jan. 18 7pm

[hab29RETIRED]

We seriously need some changes on this team and one of them should be MT. I don't understand his lines don't get who he has on the ice at key situations and the guy pretty much gets out coached by whoever we are playing. I'm sick of losing regularly to the leafs when we are on HNIC.

[sbhatt]

What a joke... Out skilled by Toronto..

It is time we face the facts that we have a few decent play makers and ONE goal scorer. I love Gally, but he is a grinder who will probably have a short career. He is not a sniper.

Bourque, Briere, Gionta... All three are suppose to be goal scorers and simply are not anymore. We need to trade for a decent, young sniper. We have to stop wasting money on old guys in decline.

Well said...agree with your take on all 3; nothing but baggage.

[Chris]

At least be honest on MT, his first was the playoffs, they are still in the playoffs and look at the roster. Scotty Bowman couldn't do much better with this level of talent.

He has turned chicken sh.. into chicken salad.

I'm not his biggest fan but he has done well with what he has.

[Lovett's Magnatones]

At least be honest on MT, his first was the playoffs, they are still in the playoffs and look at the roster. Scotty Bowman couldn't do much better with this level of talent.

He has turned chicken sh.. into chicken salad.

I'm not his biggest fan but he has done well with what he has.

I agree, and I agree with Habs29 about Gallagher, he's basically getting ignored. Unfortunately, this team has major flaws and has overachieved for the entire tenure of MT. Emelin at this point is a number 6 defenseman and should have been eased into the lineup, but if we drop him, who takes his place? They're all number 6 defensemen! That falls on MB. It's his responsibility to put out the best roster he can on a yearly basis, and his answer to our problems was Douglas Murray, Danny Briere and Parros. Each of these players made the team worse in a unique way. You get what you pay for in life. Beaulieu made a few nice rushes but it was a miracle he ended up with a plus.

[Trizzak]

Nattinen played 1:45.

I mean, what's the ing point of calling him up?

[Machine of Loving Grace]

Nattinen played 1:45.

I mean, what's the ######ing point of calling him up?

Especially since Therrien put him against the Leafs top line. That's setting the kid up to fail.

[brobin]

Gally is being screwed by playing with two guys that pass to each other 80% of the time. I'd rather put him with Eller and put Bournavil with DD and Maxpac.

Gally has had lots of chances with shots, he just isn't a sniper. I have seen him fumble lots of chances from the slot, or put it right in the goalies chest. He is the garbage goal guy and there is nothing wrong with that. We need a Gally in the lineup. My fear with him is his style of play leads to shorter careers.

We need another Pacs type player who can actually snipe. It would be nice if he was big and fast too.

[Chris]

Agreed, they also need players who drive the net and play physical in the offensive zone. Their size of players is better suited to take back the dwarf mountain then play in the NHL

As Lovett's and I have pointe out, they have way too many bottom pair defenseman, Markov who I like is really a number 4 on a good team and should have his minutes around 18-29 a night.

[dlbalr]

Well said...agree with your take on all 3; nothing but baggage.

Yeah, it's not like Gionta isn't 3rd among all Montreal forwards in points or anything. Yes, he's not scoring but he is still contributing more than people want to give him credit for. He doesn't belong in the same category as Bourque and Briere...Gionta has 5 more points than them combined.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

It was an entertaining game...one of several humdingers the Habs have been involved with in recent weeks. I also thought PK was just dominant. He's really got his mojo back after a few weeks of trying to be a robotic "good boy" to please Yzerman.

Over and over, though, we hear the same thing: "the Habs need players who drive the net and play physically in the offensive zone" (Chris). Year after year after year. Three GMs later. It's almost comical.

Emelin didn't look good last night and that makes a HUGE difference to our overall configuration on D. I've said before that this team needs another top-4 blueliner, and I stand by that.

Two more forwards with size in the top-9 - at least one of which is a credible top-6er - and one top-4 defenceman, add that to the existing roster with its superb netminder, and presto, you've got a genuine contender. Until then - barring some huge steps forward from Eller and Galchenyuk - it'll be the same old same old.

Speaking of which, I'm getting a bit worried about Eller. He seems to have stepped back from the take-charge guy he was becoming at the end of last season and the start of this one. Good to play a 200-foot game, but where's the dynamism?

[Guest Stogey24]

Yeah, it's not like Gionta isn't 3rd among all Montreal forwards in points or anything. Yes, he's not scoring but he is still contributing more than people want to give him credit for. He doesn't belong in the same category as Bourque and Briere...Gionta has 5 more points than them combined.

Gionta works his bag off out there. I've actually been pretty impressed with him lately. The problem is we basically have 4 or 5 other players the same size as him.

[Guest Stogey24]

It was an entertaining game...one of several humdingers the Habs have been involved with in recent weeks. I also thought PK was just dominant. He's really got his mojo back after a few weeks of trying to be a robotic "good boy" to please Yzerman.

Over and over, though, we hear the same thing: "the Habs need players who drive the net and play physically in the offensive zone" (Chris). Year after year after year. Three GMs later. It's almost comical.

Emelin didn't look good last night and that makes a HUGE difference to our overall configuration on D. I've said before that this team needs another top-4 blueliner, and I stand by that.

Two more forwards with size in the top-9 - at least one of which is a credible top-6er - and one top-4 defenceman, add that to the existing roster with its superb netminder, and presto, you've got a genuine contender. Until then - barring some huge steps forward from Eller and Galchenyuk - it'll be the same old same old.

Speaking of which, I'm getting a bit worried about Eller. He seems to have stepped back from the take-charge guy he was becoming at the end of last season and the start of this one. Good to play a 200-foot game, but where's the dynamism?

I swear Eller's problem is Therrien's coaching style. He bounces these kids around so much they can't find chemistry. The only two players that are consistently put together are DD and Pac. Eller lit it up with Gallagher and Galchenyuk, other than that line he's placed with the guys that are struggling on most nights. He's hasn't been given a fair shake in my eyes.

[Neech]

I agree that Eller has gotten the short straw from Therrien. Beyond breaking up the kid line, he's always stuck with the third line flotsam. He got less than half the game last night with Pleks before Briere inexplicably took his place. Briere's presence is such a detriment to the functionality of this team, and it's stifling long-term development too.

[Lovett's Magnatones]

Gionta works his bag off out there. I've actually been pretty impressed with him lately. The problem is we basically have 4 or 5 other players the same size as him.

There's nothing wrong with having a couple of guys under 5'10. Gionta and Gallagher, or Gallagher and DD or DD and Bouillon etc. You can't have too many of the same type of player, unless it's something crazy like five number one dmen. Philly has this problem with their defense, too many big lumbering defensemen. The Briere signing put this issue over the top, having three smurfs on RW. Rebuild or not, how did MB look at this roster and say "yeah, this is it, these are our guys."

[Machine of Loving Grace]

I swear Eller's problem is Therrien's coaching style. He bounces these kids around so much they can't find chemistry. The only two players that are consistently put together are DD and Pac. Eller lit it up with Gallagher and Galchenyuk, other than that line he's placed with the guys that are struggling on most nights. He's hasn't been given a fair shake in my eyes.

I was watching the documentary on Johnny Carson and Red Skeleton said, "People kept saying I launched Carson. I didn't. Carson has talent and the thing with talent is, you can put it behind a brick wall and it's still going to find its way through."

Eller had two very good plays last night that could have lead to goals but the rest of his game stunk. I'm ready to anoint him the role of being the new Andrei Kostitsyn. Some people here are going to read that and immediately reply that I just said they are the exact same player, but no, that's not my point. My point is how we perceive them. Kostitsyn was a young player with a ton of potential but he couldn't be consistent about it. That's the same with Lars Eller. I'm just not seeing consistency. People forget that we broke up the EGG line because it stopped working. Eller is now getting a shot with one of our hottest players (Plekanec) and a Gionta who still finds his way on the board and you're telling me it's Therrien's fault he can't make something happen? Some responsibility please.

Is he still a good checking third liner? Sure. But do we really want to hold onto that forever and wait to see if it breaks out? Plekanec is unquestionably a top six center. Desharnais, after a 40 game slump has once again shown he can be a top six center. Galchenyuk will eventually be a top six center. There's just no room for Eller, even if you think he's going to break out into a Jordan Staal or Tomas Plekanec. We're deep down the middle. Why not use that to our advantage and move Eller with extra incentive for a dynamic winger? That's how I see it.

Next year, it's possible that the only "Small forwards" we have in our top six is Desharnais and Gallagher. I'd be fine with that.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

It's a never-ending story with young players...are they mediocre because they're put with the wrong linemates, or because, at this point in their careers, they're mediocre, period?

When Koivu came up, they had him with Turner Stevenson. The result was not that his development was impeded; it was that suddenly Stevenson had all sorts of scoring chances and our fourth line was deadly on the cycle down low. In other words, Koivu didn't wait around to be paired with Vincent Damphousse. He made things happen ad forced his way into the top-6. The same thing has happened with Gallagher. That, in my opinion, is how it should be.

So I've always been a little bit skeptical about this "blame the linemates" argument. I can see where, if you're playing with a slug like Bourque or a plumber like Moen, you won't put up points because they can't take advantage of what you generate. But that's a different matter from not generating anything. The notion that a young player cannot take personal responsibility for generating things because his linemates suck seems way too forgiving to me. Eller has always been prone to being a passenger rather than a driver. I'm concerned that his play over the last couple of months has less to do with linemates and more to do with this longstanding proclivity of his.

Two other players that enjoyed the same sort of excuses were A. Kostitsyn and Fatrendesse. Look how they turned out.

[Neech]

Eller is now getting a shot with one of our hottest players (Plekanec) and a Gionta who still finds his way on the board and you're telling me it's Therrien's fault he can't make something happen? Some responsibility please.

He played about two periods over two games with Pleks, which I don't consider much of a shot. I don't know what Briere did to get promoted to that spot.

I think Eller has been decent overall this year, and to put him in the same category as A Kost is unfair.

[Toronthab]

I know we lost but I loved the game. We scored, we looked good and put an effort forth most of the game. Price, despite allowing 4 goals, made some great saves. It was the type of game we lost but doesn't make me feel like we're going on a losing skid

After I remove the Toronto cleaver from my skull, I will likely be clear-headed enough to agree with you. Thank God for the brilliant "only thing to cheer about for 45 years remark so I don't have to slink about unarmed. I can at least be ungallant in defeat.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

Two other players that enjoyed the same sort of excuses were A. Kostitsyn and Fatrendesse. Look how they turned out.

To be fair, Latendresse ripped it up in Minnesota before getting multiple injuries. They never gave him the minutes he deserved.

Kostitsyn got placed right up with Plekanec and Kovalev as the boards guy. Once Kovalev was gone he wanted to be Kovalev and not the boards guy. His game has slipped ever since. For every cry for him to return, fact is he isn't suited to be your dynamic winger. He's a mucker with a good shot.

[BCHabnut]

I am a little surprised that the concensus on this board is that the team's issues are offensive. The Chicago game really opened my eyes to what I believe this team needs. Chicago is a highly successful, small, fast team that scores most of its goals on the rush, and relies on the transition almost 100%. Of course they are way more stacked up front than Montreal, but what I saw from them was a team that could keep a bit of separation between defense and forwards, because their defense are so good at moving the puck. I really believe that this is what Montreal needs right now and for the last three seasons. They need Bieksa or a high end #3 defenseman of his caliber. A faster transition makes all of the forwards more dangerous. They also need better team balance up front . Briere has not played centre with any talented players. Been mixed and matched way too much. I think that this is a great time to trade DD. 51 and 61 could net thiss team a real right handed #3 defenseman and a good third line winger. Play Briere in his position. Give him the resposibility. You never know, he may fill in for DD quite well.

[brobin]

Look.... Go to NHL.com and look up the point per game stats of our players. Now look at top teams... It is not even close.

Eller has the PPG stats of a third line center. He is not an offensive juggernaut. Pleks has been saddled with a lot of mediocre players but he has managed to put up 2nd line center stats. Gionta is average at best.

Even Toronto is loaded with offensive talent vs the habs. For all our so called defensive wows, our D core and Goalies are the only reason we are in a playoff spot.

This team needed Bourque to be at least as good as Gionta, and Briere to be At least a .75 PPG player. Didn't happen.

Eller, Gally, and Chucky have middle of the road offensive stats. I think Chucky has a lot of room for growth, Gally brings a ton of energy, but Eller has had enough NHL time to prove he is an elite offensive star... He isn't.

DD has picked up his game tremendously, but let's not pretend that his point totals aren't a direct result of passing to Pacs. Take Pacs away and DD would be all but useless.

We are 28th in the league in 5-5 scoring. Wait for a 15 game slump from price and we will be in free fall.

[JoeLassister]

Look.... Go to NHL.com and look up the point per game stats of our players. Now look at top teams... It is not even close.

Eller has the PPG stats of a third line center. He is not an offensive juggernaut. Pleks has been saddled with a lot of mediocre players but he has managed to put up 2nd line center stats. Gionta is average at best.

Even Toronto is loaded with offensive talent vs the habs. For all our so called defensive wows, our D core and Goalies are the only reason we are in a playoff spot.

This team needed Bourque to be at least as good as Gionta, and Briere to be At least a .75 PPG player. Didn't happen.

Eller, Gally, and Chucky have middle of the road offensive stats. I think Chucky has a lot of room for growth, Gally brings a ton of energy, but Eller has had enough NHL time to prove he is an elite offensive star... He isn't.

DD has picked up his game tremendously, but let's not pretend that his point totals aren't a direct result of passing to Pacs. Take Pacs away and DD would be all but useless.

We are 28th in the league in 5-5 scoring. Wait for a 15 game slump from price and we will be in free fall.

hahaha like anything was suggesting a possible 15 games slump from Price... At this point, I think a 15 games shutout streak from Price is more possible.

[BCHabnut]

I don't know. I think what you are asking for is this team to turn into Anaheim or St. Louis over night. Big strong forwards that can take their time in the offensive zone and set up goals. That is a full rebuild, with Eller and Pac being the only players left up front on the top 6.. This team is built for transition one and done offense. The same type of offense that beat us last night because our defense is inept. We put the blame on the forwards for not tightening the gap, but how can a small team create offense without that gap. They need to create turnovers and transition fast. I really hope that a change in philosophy happens soon. I still think that this team is defensively brutal, and the the only way they play so tight is for the forwards to take the bulk of the defensive work. Then when they finally get possession, the other team plugs off the neautral zone and our little guys cannot break through.

[KoRP]

Awesome post BCHabnut!

[Guest Stogey24]

There's nothing wrong with having a couple of guys under 5'10. Gionta and Gallagher, or Gallagher and DD or DD and Bouillon etc. You can't have too many of the same type of player, unless it's something crazy like five number one dmen. Philly has this problem with their defense, too many big lumbering defensemen. The Briere signing put this issue over the top, having three smurfs on RW. Rebuild or not, how did MB look at this roster and say "yeah, this is it, these are our guys."

Yeah, exactly