DON Posted August 14, 2016 Share Posted August 14, 2016 Yea I think Ellis especially is very overrated. Especially since Weber & Jones got moved, I think he's been sheltered well for most of his career as RD. Ekholm.. we'll see. I like him, but have to see if he can be depended on for consistent minutes. Don't really know either's game real well..just wanted to chime in that Markov is not all washed up (like a Kaberle) quite yet and is as smart as ever (just 1/2 to 1 full step slower now is all). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nihilz Posted August 14, 2016 Share Posted August 14, 2016 Don't really know either's game real well..just wanted to chime in that Markov is not all washed up (like a Kaberle) quite yet and is as smart as ever (just 1/2 to 1 full step slower now is all). Markov can't play 25 mins a night. Limit his minutes 5 on 5. Sit him for back to back's. He'll be fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stogey24 Posted August 14, 2016 Share Posted August 14, 2016 Eye for an eye! What an animal. Chuck Norris wears Shea Weber pj's to bed. Weber isn't the greatest fighter ever, but I gotta say, that head smash is ing awesome Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Ethan Posted August 14, 2016 Share Posted August 14, 2016 Just to be fair, can someone put up some Subban Yaps and Turtles videos to answer the Weber Fights videos? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted August 14, 2016 Share Posted August 14, 2016 Just to be fair, can someone put up some Subban Yaps and Turtles videos to answer the Weber Fights videos? The Subban embellishment compilation, created by Claude Julien, is almost as entertaining. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nihilz Posted August 14, 2016 Share Posted August 14, 2016 Just to be fair, can someone put up some Subban Yaps and Turtles videos to answer the Weber Fights videos? Shut up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted August 14, 2016 Share Posted August 14, 2016 He's making progress, he managed to insult subban without using any racial slurs..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted August 14, 2016 Share Posted August 14, 2016 He's making progress, he managed to insult subban without using any racial slurs..... baby steps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IN THE HEARTS OF MEN Posted August 15, 2016 Share Posted August 15, 2016 Who saw Subban beat up Kyle turris? Wait that was a tie... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IN THE HEARTS OF MEN Posted August 15, 2016 Share Posted August 15, 2016 Stage fighting and goon fighting is out of the game no doubt about that at all... But a freakin Mean SOB defence man who can crush you, with a check, isnt afraid to grab your head and head butt into the glass and will fight anyone who takes a cheap shot on his teammate while he's on the ice for virtually half a game he plays are worth diamonds... Did I mention they also avg more then 15+ goals a season... When you think about it... Who in the NHL is comparable to Shea Weber? Probably nobody except Chara of 2011 and before that Pronger... Am I missing someone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nihilz Posted August 15, 2016 Share Posted August 15, 2016 Stage fighting and goon fighting is out of the game no doubt about that at all... But a freakin Mean SOB defence man who can crush you, with a check, isnt afraid to grab your head and head butt into the glass and will fight anyone who takes a cheap shot on his teammate while he's on the ice for virtually half a game he plays are worth diamonds... Did I mention they also avg more then 15+ goals a season... When you think about it... Who in the NHL is comparable to Shea Weber? Probably nobody except Chara of 2011 and before that Pronger... Am I missing someone? K.Hatcher? Byfuglien? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helmethead Posted August 15, 2016 Share Posted August 15, 2016 Stage fighting and goon fighting is out of the game no doubt about that at all... But a freakin Mean SOB defence man who can crush you, with a check, isnt afraid to grab your head and head butt into the glass and will fight anyone who takes a cheap shot on his teammate while he's on the ice for virtually half a game he plays are worth diamonds... Did I mention they also avg more then 15+ goals a season... When you think about it... Who in the NHL is comparable to Shea Weber? Probably nobody except Chara of 2011 and before that Pronger... Am I missing someone? Amen brother Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illWill Posted August 15, 2016 Share Posted August 15, 2016 Stage fighting and goon fighting is out of the game no doubt about that at all... But a freakin Mean SOB defence man who can crush you, with a check, isnt afraid to grab your head and head butt into the glass and will fight anyone who takes a cheap shot on his teammate while he's on the ice for virtually half a game he plays are worth diamonds... Did I mention they also avg more then 15+ goals a season... When you think about it... Who in the NHL is comparable to Shea Weber? Probably nobody except Chara of 2011 and before that Pronger... Am I missing someone? I didn't see the word Corsi in that paragraph so it loses all merit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted August 15, 2016 Share Posted August 15, 2016 You can make fun of corsi all you want, but there is one stat you can't argue... Wins and Losses.... and there is zero evidence that fighting leads to wins. Shows just how bad the trade is though, we've now resorted to the fact that Weber is a better face puncher to justify it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illWill Posted August 15, 2016 Share Posted August 15, 2016 Some people get enjoyment out of numbers, and some get enjoyment from punches to the face. Neither one guarantees an outcome though. Winning a particular hockey game comes down to a small moment in time that can't be dictated by past outcomes and future probabilities. That being said, It's pretty amazing that Weber can bury 20 goals during a "decline" after hammering so many skulls with his right hand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted August 15, 2016 Share Posted August 15, 2016 Some people get enjoyment out of numbers, and some get enjoyment from punches to the face. Neither one guarantees an outcome though. Winning a particular hockey game comes down to a small moment in time that can't be dictated by past outcomes and future probabilities. That being said, It's pretty amazing that Weber can bury 20 goals during a "decline" after hammering so many skulls with his right hand Nothing "guarantees" a win... but when you tell me that 70% of the time the team with the better corsi numbers before a playoff series starts wins that playoff series... that seems kind of important to me. Seems a little better than the team with the better fighters wins 50% of the time. Seems to me when one is 70/30 and the other is 50/50.... that one is actually influencing the outcome of games, and one isn't. And I don't enjoy numbers. I enjoy WINNING hockey games.... if face punching is more important to people, maybe there are better sports, like UFC and Boxing, where the fight numbers aren't dropping to all time lows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illWill Posted August 15, 2016 Share Posted August 15, 2016 The point of my post is that Weber as a player is supposedly on the decline because of analytics. But he literally just scored 20 goals and added 3 more during a run to the conference final. If that is a decline, sign me up. The fact he fights when needed is just the cherry on the top. We're all going to cheer when he is bashing a face in because it'll be the right thing to do at the time, not because of some thirst for blood. It is still part of the game and until it isn't, that's when it won't matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCHabnut Posted August 15, 2016 Share Posted August 15, 2016 Nothing "guarantees" a win... but when you tell me that 70% of the time the team with the better corsi numbers before a playoff series starts wins that playoff series... that seems kind of important to me. Seems a little better than the team with the better fighters wins 50% of the time. Seems to me when one is 70/30 and the other is 50/50.... that one is actually influencing the outcome of games, and one isn't. And I don't enjoy numbers. I enjoy WINNING hockey games.... if face punching is more important to people, maybe there are better sports, like UFC and Boxing, where the fight numbers aren't dropping to all time lows. Every one of those face punches in the video was justified. He was on the ice and somebody took a cheap shot at him or his team mate, so he punched his face in. I support this type of face punching. Always have. In a league that encourages backward enforcement of rules and "let's them play" , face punching is still important to me. I am quite happy to have a face puncher playing half the game. He isn't going to be doing stupid stage fights or honor code horse shit. I don't like that junk. If fighting is going to come out of the game, officiating has to improve a lot. There isn't enough fear in the players to deter them from taking cheap shots. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted August 15, 2016 Share Posted August 15, 2016 The point of my post is that Weber as a player is supposedly on the decline because of analytics. But he literally just scored 20 goals and added 3 more during a run to the conference final. If that is a decline, sign me up. The fact he fights when needed is just the cherry on the top. We're all going to cheer when he is bashing a face in because it'll be the right thing to do at the time, not because of some thirst for blood. It is still part of the game and until it isn't, that's when it won't matter. If you read the posts at no point did anyone say that his offensive game was on the decline. Its the other end of the ice that seems to be the issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted August 15, 2016 Share Posted August 15, 2016 Every one of those face punches in the video was justified. He was on the ice and somebody took a cheap shot at him or his team mate, so he punched his face in. I support this type of face punching. Always have. In a league that encourages backward enforcement of rules and "let's them play" , face punching is still important to me. I am quite happy to have a face puncher playing half the game. He isn't going to be doing stupid stage fights or honor code horse shit. I don't like that junk. If fighting is going to come out of the game, officiating has to improve a lot. There isn't enough fear in the players to deter them from taking cheap shots. In a league where you make millions to be in the NHL, and 70-100k to be in the AHL, punches to the face don't deter guys like Steve Ott, Patrick Kaleta, Chris Kreider, etc... etc... They all know that if they don't play the game on edge, they won't be getting a new contract when their current one expires. And that is why its not a deterent in 2016. Also, if Weber is so good, why do we want him doing the facepunching? Wouldn't it be better to not have a guy that we want to play half the game, spending 7 minutes in the box every time he fights? Isn't it encouraging to the other team to get him taken off the ice, knowing he'll do something stupid if you take a cheap shot? If fighting is our best way to justify trading away this team's best player (other than price); well that just shows how stupid the trade is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IN THE HEARTS OF MEN Posted August 15, 2016 Share Posted August 15, 2016 In a league where you make millions to be in the NHL, and 70-100k to be in the AHL, punches to the face don't deter guys like Steve Ott, Patrick Kaleta, Chris Kreider, etc... etc... They all know that if they don't play the game on edge, they won't be getting a new contract when their current one expires. And that is why its not a deterent in 2016. Also, if Weber is so good, why do we want him doing the facepunching? Wouldn't it be better to not have a guy that we want to play half the game, spending 7 minutes in the box every time he fights? Isn't it encouraging to the other team to get him taken off the ice, knowing he'll do something stupid if you take a cheap shot? If fighting is our best way to justify trading away this team's best player (other than price); well that just shows how stupid the trade is. the point of the video was in response to a comment made that weber doesn't stand up for his teammates in particular rinne... not to justify the trade at all... sorry but this thread has lost its interest when the comments keep repeating and repeating and repeating and repeating the same thing. we get it weber's analytics are down, subbans are better.. he and subban play completely different games. our team chose another style of player.. i love PK and will miss him! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IN THE HEARTS OF MEN Posted August 15, 2016 Share Posted August 15, 2016 im ok that he's out for 7 minutes if its in response to a cheap shot.... id rather see him out there then having everyone awkwardly look at each other and do nothing, or have nathan beaulieu get punched out cause he's the only guy willing to do something!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IN THE HEARTS OF MEN Posted August 15, 2016 Share Posted August 15, 2016 weber right now is in a league of his own for his style of game... like i said closest player is chara and he's going on 40yrs and nobody else comes close. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted August 15, 2016 Share Posted August 15, 2016 In a league where you make millions to be in the NHL, and 70-100k to be in the AHL, punches to the face don't deter guys like Steve Ott, Patrick Kaleta, Chris Kreider, etc... etc... They all know that if they don't play the game on edge, they won't be getting a new contract when their current one expires. And that is why its not a deterent in 2016. Also, if Weber is so good, why do we want him doing the facepunching? Wouldn't it be better to not have a guy that we want to play half the game, spending 7 minutes in the box every time he fights? Isn't it encouraging to the other team to get him taken off the ice, knowing he'll do something stupid if you take a cheap shot? If fighting is our best way to justify trading away this team's best player (other than price); well that just shows how stupid the trade is. Well, he had a whooping 27pims last season, so are you saying he only played 3.8games last year, if had 7pims/game that you are complaining about. Some might say, defending teammates is a tool he has -Subban dosent and he dosent need to use it often. So might as well move on and find something else to point out that might make Weber look bad. Am sure you haven't cleaned out the fancy stat closet quite yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted August 15, 2016 Share Posted August 15, 2016 The whole discussion seems kind of side-tracked. No one is denying that Weber is a better fighter, and a better overall physical intimidator, than PK Subban. That element, as well as as his PP shot, are the two aspects of his game that represent an upgrade. He is a downgrade in every other way, except - theoretically - for those misty 'intangibles' that nobody really has any clue about, but have to talk about if they desperately want to try to convince themselves that this trade was other than a dumb move. Now, Commandant is almost certainly right that fighting is not nearly as important as it used to be, and we can't have it both ways; if Weber only got 28 PIMs last season, that means that he had at most five fights and probably many fewer than that, which tends to underscore Commandant's whole point: this aspect of his game is not particularly important (notwithstanding the possibility that he might serve as a kind of nuclear deterrent). I don't believe a pr*ck like Kreider would have pulled up when he crashed into Price just because he's afraid of Weber. It was interesting to read that Nashville fan who complained that it's been open season on Rinne, for instance. My guess is that the real issue is that goalies are insufficiently protected by the NHL disciplinary philosophy - or else that some star goalies are just injury-prone and their fans feel persecuted as a result. But for people who do believe that Kreider would have pulled up because of fear, the 'nuclear deterrent' argument will obviously be relevant. IMHO, if we want to emphasize Weber's physicality, we're much better off analyzing his hits totals and studying how effective he actually is in a 'crease-clearing' capacity, getting guys out of the goalie's face. Fights are borderline trivia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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