alfredoh2009 Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 26 minutes ago, Habsfan89 said: We would be getting cap space in trading price and weber and just do a full on rebuild. We got some good young talent by the time they're ready to take the next step we. Would then have the cap space to add to that new young core group of players. Come on Habsfan89, the you talent the Habs has is not elite. They are not Crosby/Malkin or Drasailt/McDavid able to cover for an average goalie. And without Weber, Petry will not be able to cover for the lack of depth at D. I am not keen for a rebuilt like the Senators, Sabres and Oilers have tried. Price and Weber are the pillars on which this team is carried. They will not be around when Suzuki, Romanov and KK will be in their prime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habsfan89 Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 20 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said: But how are you going to get the young core players? I don’t want just draft picks. Otherwise you are the Sabres, having draft picks with over paid washed up UFA’s. I want A mix of elite young players, bonafide blue chip can’t prospects and the high draft picks. I don’t want to waste cap space on UFA’s. That never was a good approach in the cap system and now with the league getting younger, I want 19 to 24 year olds. Not 27 or 28 and certainly not 30 year olds. id use our cap space to eat up to $3.5m contracts if it helps get more elite young assets and high draft picks added in. I like what the rangers did a couple of years ago, but I’d want to get hud that are closer to the NHL versus just draft picks. Gallagher, Domi, Kotkaniemi, Suzuki, Mete, Armia, Lehkonen, become the core group of leaders for this team. Gallagher the new captain. Romanov, Poehling, Fleury , Primeau, Juulsen, caufield younger group of guys plus who ever else we get if we do a full blown rebuild. If our plan is to build through the draft and not sign top ufa's then our only option is full rebuild. But holding on to Price, Weber and Petry and not giving them any help isn't the answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habsfan89 Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 14 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said: Come on Habsfan89, the you talent the Habs has is not elite. They are not Crosby/Malkin or Drasailt/McDavid able to cover for an average goalie. And without Weber, Petry will not be able to cover for the lack of depth at D. I am not keen for a rebuilt like the Senators, Sabres and Oilers have tried. Price and Weber are the pillars on which this team is carried. They will not be around when Suzuki, Romanov and KK will be in their prime. You get elite player in draft by picking in the top five. You don't get elite players by just missing the playoffs and picking out of the top 10. We need a full rebuild with this team to give us a chance at finally getting elite players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 13 minutes ago, Habsfan89 said: Gallagher, Domi, Kotkaniemi, Suzuki, Mete, Armia, Lehkonen, become the core group of leaders for this team. Gallagher the new captain. Romanov, Poehling, Fleury , Primeau, Juulsen, caufield younger group of guys plus who ever else we get if we do a full blown rebuild. If our plan is to build through the draft and not sign top ufa's then our only option is full rebuild. But holding on to Price, Weber and Petry and not giving them any help isn't the answer. I agree that holding on to all 3 isn’t the answer, but I also don’t think giving them away for picks and cap space is either. id want prospects like Glass, Bryam, Bouchard, broberg and would be willing to eat $3.5m of price’s contract and $2m if Weber IF the return was good I. Addition to the high draft picks. But I wouldn’t trade them for just picks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xXx..CK..xXx Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 The past few games have made me happy we have Price on the team. He’s made me feel way more confident in our chances than if we had Murray between the pipes. Hopefully he can keep it up for the next few games and beyond. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habsfan89 Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 2 hours ago, xXx..CK..xXx said: The past few games have made me happy we have Price on the team. He’s made me feel way more confident in our chances than if we had Murray between the pipes. Hopefully he can keep it up for the next few games and beyond. Yeah we're all happy to have Price on the team. But what good is it wasting his elite talent? We should be building a wining team around him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 5 minutes ago, Habsfan89 said: We should be building a wining team around him. Darn, why hadnt anyone thought of that? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xXx..CK..xXx Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 If I’m either team, I’m working on the power play for the entire next practice. Not even penalty kill. 5 players 1 goalie Put the puck in the net Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfredoh2009 Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 9 hours ago, Habsfan89 said: You get elite player in draft by picking in the top five. You don't get elite players by just missing the playoffs and picking out of the top 10. We need a full rebuild with this team to give us a chance at finally getting elite players. The lottery makes it hard to pick first overall. Galchenyuk and Kotkaniemi are examples of top-3 talent that are not dominant game changing players from the first year. Drafting elite players in the top 10 requires multiple years of drafting or like Ottawa is trying this year, multiple draft pick sin one year. We have discussed rebuilds on this forum ad-nauseam What's the new point your are bringing, exactly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 1 minute ago, alfredoh2009 said: The lottery makes it hard to pick first overall. Galchenyuk and Kotkaniemi are examples of top-3 talent that are not dominant game changing players from the first year. Drafting elite players in the top 10 requires multiple years of drafting or like Ottawa is trying this year, multiple draft pick sin one year. We have discussed rebuilds on this forum ad-nauseam What's the new point your are bringing, exactly? They already have one of youngest teams and bunch of picks prospects. I guess trading all of Petry-Gallagher-Tatar and trying to trade Weber-Price might be considered a "full rebuild". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IN THE HEARTS OF MEN Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 Honestly, who the hell allowed this thread to be taken over by the "let's trade Price" blow the team up "rebuild/ retool" group? We have multiple threads for that absolute bull shit during a playoff series and game 2 thread. We are in the middle of a series against multiple stanley cup winner Pittsburgh... We lost a game that was 1-0 for 90% of the game all the while playing against slanted penalty calls for the 2nd game in a row. FFS, do I have to listen to the rebuild trade the world group every time we lose? Its embarrassing and those fans are truly THE EXACT reason we cant get a TOP player to sign here. NOT the media, NOT the taxes, NOT the language barrier, NOT the cold... YOU... the fickle fan of MTL who is more satisfied to complain when we lose then to celebrate when we win. Now as for the game... Armia at the end of a shift, a really good shift I might add. Loses Crosby and allows him to walk in back door. CROSBY, who arguably is the best player in hockey still and a top 10 all time NHLer beats Price. (Side note: Armia has been fantastic) Is it me or did the refs turn this game into a special teams effort yet again. Any momentum that we started to build up was clearly shut down by another penalty kill. We were not completely unmatched for a 2nd game in a row and what I see is the team that not for some bad luck against the Canes miss the playoffs by 2 points the year prior. This team has been for 2 seasons now 1 of the best 5on5 team in all the NHL. What they havent been able to do is get consisent scoring, cosistent goaltending and both special teams all playing well at the same. The kids look good! Now we need -Drouin to do something offensively - Domi to start taking the puck to the net rather then shoot pucks from the perimeter -Weise clearly isnt trusted so Evans or Poehling NEEDS to be inserted with last line change -Julien needs to trust KK a little more. AND we need to stay OUT the FN BOX and really put pressure on the pens to beat us 5on5. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 3 minutes ago, DON said: They already have one of youngest teams and bunch of picks prospects. I guess trading all of Petry-Gallagher-Tatar and trying to trade Weber-Price might be considered a "full rebuild". Yeah, the Habs have had 3 #3 overall picks on the roster recently: Galy, KK, and Drouin. That's the equivalent of three tank jobs right there. I don't see any new banners in the rafters, though... You don't need to tank. You need elite scouting and player development. Look at Boston. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeLassister Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 I'm not a violent man, but I could become one easily if Habs keep on relying on this dumbass drop pass strategy on the PP. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xXx..CK..xXx Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 People who are discussing tanking and draft picks right now are essentially trolls. I’ve seen more criticism of our team on these boards than of opposing teams. Wouldn’t the fun in chirping come in attacking the other team? My constant jabs towards Murray seem to be the only chirps towards the Penguins I can recall around here. I want more of “I was hoping Marleau would prove to be useless and go nowhere in another playoff” ”Murray would let in a beach ball” ”Who the hell is John Marino and why is he on the ice so much? No, keep him there.” Instead we have people bashing Drouin, Weise, Ouellete, etc. I’m not thinking the battle between Dale Weise and Teddy Blueger will be the reason one team or the other wins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 15 minutes ago, IN THE HEARTS OF MEN said: Honestly, who the hell allowed this thread to be taken over by the "let's trade Price" blow the team up "rebuild/ retool" group? We have multiple threads for that absolute bull shit during a playoff series and game 2 thread. We are in the middle of a series against multiple stanley cup winner Pittsburgh... We lost a game that was 1-0 for 90% of the game all the while playing against slanted penalty calls for the 2nd game in a row. FFS, do I have to listen to the rebuild trade the world group every time we lose? Its embarrassing and those fans are truly THE EXACT reason we cant get a TOP player to sign here. NOT the media, NOT the taxes, NOT the language barrier, NOT the cold... YOU... the fickle fan of MTL who is more satisfied to complain when we lose then to celebrate when we win. Now as for the game... Armia at the end of a shift, a really good shift I might add. Loses Crosby and allows him to walk in back door. CROSBY, who arguably is the best player in hockey still and a top 10 all time NHLer beats Price. (Side note: Armia has been fantastic) Is it me or did the refs turn this game into a special teams effort yet again. Any momentum that we started to build up was clearly shut down by another penalty kill. We were not completely unmatched for a 2nd game in a row and what I see is the team that not for some bad luck against the Canes miss the playoffs by 2 points the year prior. This team has been for 2 seasons now 1 of the best 5on5 team in all the NHL. What they havent been able to do is get consisent scoring, cosistent goaltending and both special teams all playing well at the same. The kids look good! Now we need -Drouin to do something offensively - Domi to start taking the puck to the net rather then shoot pucks from the perimeter -Weise clearly isnt trusted so Evans or Poehling NEEDS to be inserted with last line change -Julien needs to trust KK a little more. AND we need to stay OUT the FN BOX and really put pressure on the pens to beat us 5on5. Amen on the bullshit tank ans rebuild talk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IN THE HEARTS OF MEN Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 17 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said: Yeah, the Habs have had 3 #3 overall picks on the roster recently: Galy, KK, and Drouin. That's the equivalent of three tank jobs right there. I don't see any new banners in the rafters, though... You don't need to tank. You need elite scouting and player development. Look at Boston. And even with Boston it took a trade for Rask, a huge UFA signing in Chara, steals late rounds on top of draft choices. They really hit the jackpot with some of their 1st rounders specifically Bergeron in the 2nd, marchand 71st, mcavoy 14th, and most importantly Pasternak at 24. Could you imagine we picked Nikita Scherbak at 25. What a difference. On top of that could you imagine if they didnt blow those 3picks in a row in 2015 and were able to land even 1 of Barzal chabot or Connor with the 3picks that immediately followed their 3 picks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbhatt Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 6 minutes ago, xXx..CK..xXx said: I’m not thinking the battle between Dale Weise and Teddy Blueger will be the reason one team or the other wins. True. Our problem is the inability of our top 6 to score, not 4th line tweaks. Drouin being in that top 6 is the most glaring problem I have seen in these first 2 games: he has contributed absolutely nothing. His errant passes and suspect decision making have done as much to help the Penguins PK as any PIttsburgh player has. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IN THE HEARTS OF MEN Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 20 minutes ago, JoeLassister said: I'm not a violent man, but I could become one easily if Habs keep on relying on this dumbass drop pass strategy on the PP. Tell me about it... its driving me nuts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IN THE HEARTS OF MEN Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 I believe the 3rd and 4th lines play an absolutely huge role in the success of a playoff run. NO team has won a cup or made a run with just a top 6 and not huge contributions form the bottom 6. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 37 minutes ago, IN THE HEARTS OF MEN said: Tell me about it... its driving me nuts. That seems to be Drouin's very favourite move in the whole world. "I know...I'll drop it back!! Because that seemed really cool in Junior." ARRRGGGGHHH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbhatt Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 13 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said: That seems to be Drouin's very favourite move in the whole world. "I know...I'll drop it back!! Because that seemed really cool in Junior." ARRRGGGGHHH It might work in the Swiss league...he could possibly pass for a legit top 6 forward there. Steve Yzerman knew what he was doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 2 hours ago, xXx..CK..xXx said: If I’m either team, I’m working on the power play for the entire next practice. Not even penalty kill. 5 players 1 goalie Put the puck in the net Well they reportedly have been working on the PP for 2 or 3 years so... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habsfan89 Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 3 hours ago, DON said: Darn, why hadnt anyone thought of that? Haven't seen anyone in management think of it over the last 8 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 2 hours ago, JoeLassister said: I'm not a violent man, but I could become one easily if Habs keep on relying on this dumbass drop pass strategy on the PP. Ya, I don't get that one. Statistically is it help with entries? I assume that is only reason why they all started doing it. 6 minutes ago, Habsfan89 said: Haven't seen anyone in management think of it over the last 8 years. I know what you mean, but just ask 20+ current GMs with no rings how easy that is. Way to simplistic ask, is not quite so easy to win a cup though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHT120 Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 12 hours ago, Habsfan89 said: I think if the habs take back some bad contracts like Neal and Koskinen along with Puljujarvi and a 1st for Price and Byron could work out good for both teams. We could then flip Neal to another team and eat some of his cap hit. But i don't see Price going anywhere as long as Bergevin is GM. Feel bad for Price and Weber as I would love them to win a cup. 11 hours ago, Commandant said: So Puljujarvi (who has proven nothing) and a pick in the 20s, and two cap dumps for Price and Byron? no thanks I agree the return is light *** IF *** such a trade were made But in fairness Koskinen is not a horrible contract (e.g., Ryan Kessler) to be dumped ... he is a lower, mid-range NHL goalie who is a bit overpaid (by say $1-1.5M) at $4.5 million AAV for two more seasons ... he could be a good veteran transition partner for Primeau in 20/21 or 21/22 Neal is more difficult to assess ... he was horrible in 18/19 with Calgary (pro-rated 9 goals per 82 games) but bounced back with a pro-rated 28 goal season ... but it was with McDavid and Draisaitl ... so really more of a classic dump, especially with three years at $5.75 remaining ... so likely an expensive 3rd liner, if not a 4th liner for Habs ... but with $2-2.875 retained he could probably be moved on for some minor return. If the Oilers beat Calgary a mid/late 20s draft pick is not enticing ... if they lose to Calgary they would pick first (AGAIN!?!?!?) or likely 16th ... first would mean a deal gives the Habs Lafreniere and the 9th pick , so a reasonable good deal ... Oilers might still be tempted as losing to Calgary will be a disaster and it would likely mean Koskinen&Smith failed to come through ... at 16th or mid/late 20s I would also be looking for some combination of prospects Bouchard, Broberg, Benson and Lavoie. But all hypothetical ... Bergevin unlikely to trade Price unless Carey asked (i.e, very quietly and politely demanded) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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