Habs Fan in Edmonton Posted November 7, 2021 Share Posted November 7, 2021 56 minutes ago, GHT120 said: I have just realized that (if my "math" is correct) the Habs need to finish 25th-32nd (i.e., no better than 8th worst) to guarantee that the "protected pick" clause in the Dvorak trade is triggered ... there will be two lottery draws, one for each of the first and second picks ... this year teams can only move up 10 spots ... if the Habs finish with the 9th worst record and two of the teams behind them win the two lottery draws, those teams move ahead of the Habs and the Canadiens pick 11th (similarly, if they finish 10th, don't win one of the lottery draws and one of the teams behind them does) the Habs drop to 11th) ... as a result they lose their first round pick to the Yotes (assuming, as now seems fairly certain, that the BlowHards won't end up with a top 10 pick) ... or have I missed something NOTE: admittedly there are various permutations and combinations of the lottery, including the Habs ending up picking in the top 10 even if they finish 16th (by winning one of the lottery draws). I believe you are absolutely correct. The Habs have to be bottom 10 AFTER the lottery draws. That's how the terms are stated. Things are certainly looking like bottom 8 right now. Question for Commandant who knows the juniors better than any of us. If the Habs finish bottom 5, who would you like to see them take in the draft? I know it's a little early and I am going to assume that Shane Wright gets picked #1 by Arizona as he would be the obvious choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted November 8, 2021 Share Posted November 8, 2021 Well, for whatever it’s worth, Jack Todd has officially thrown in the towel. https://montrealgazette.com/sports/hockey/nhl/hockey-inside-out/jack-todd-this-canadiens-team-is-a-lost-cause-its-time-to-start-over While I’m inclined to share the gist of his argument, the idea of giving the GM chair on a transitional basis to France Margaret Belanger - though quite an original proposal - makes little sense in hockey terms. I mean, I would love to see a female GM of the Habs, but Belanger seems to have zero actually hockey expertise. She is a *marketing* expert. (Although, who knows. All she would have to do is mind the store for a while and oversee the hiring of the new “permanent” GM. And with the dumb moves that GMs make sometimes, and the groupthink that tends to infect this league of Good Old Boys, you can legitimately wonder whether someone who knows how to run a business operation, and who hires quality hockey advisors, could not bring an “outsider” lens to the whole process and maybe get surprisingly good results. Not sure I’d want the Habs to be the team swinging for the fences on that scheme, however). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted November 8, 2021 Share Posted November 8, 2021 46 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said: Well, for whatever it’s worth, Jack Todd has officially thrown in the towel. https://montrealgazette.com/sports/hockey/nhl/hockey-inside-out/jack-todd-this-canadiens-team-is-a-lost-cause-its-time-to-start-over While I’m inclined to share the gist of his argument, the idea of giving the GM chair on a transitional basis to France Margaret Belanger - though quite an original proposal - makes little sense in hockey terms. I mean, I would love to see a female GM of the Habs, but Belanger seems to have zero actually hockey expertise. She is a *marketing* expert. (Although, who knows. All she would have to do is mind the store for a while and oversee the hiring of the new “permanent” GM. And with the dumb moves that GMs make sometimes, and the groupthink that tends to infect this league of Good Old Boys, you can legitimately wonder whether someone who knows how to run a business operation, and who hires quality hockey advisors, could not bring an “outsider” lens to the whole process and maybe get surprisingly good results. Not sure I’d want the Habs to be the team swinging for the fences on that scheme, however). Todd is the worst columnist the Gazette ever had, and was an embarrassment at a time when they had Red Fisher. He is also the biggest band wagon number there is. IMO, he is much worse than the much maligned Brendan Kelly. the habs need real intelligent hockey people who have an acute awareness of the game today and the direction it is headed - not just dinosaur buddies that the GM played with, or does his bicep curls with. We are already handicapped by the French requirement. Now we want to add the additional affirmative action woman requirement into the equation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfredoh2009 Posted November 8, 2021 Share Posted November 8, 2021 Todd is hit and miss, write good opinion pieces but is not an insider in any sport he has covered. I loved his articles on the Grant Brothers (boxing) and the Felipe Alou saga. I never cared for his opinion on hockey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHT120 Posted November 8, 2021 Share Posted November 8, 2021 43 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said: Todd is the worst columnist the Gazette ever had, and was an embarrassment at a time when they had Red Fisher. He is also the biggest band wagon number there is. IMO, he is much worse than the much maligned Brendan Kelly. the habs need real intelligent hockey people who have an acute awareness of the game today and the direction it is headed - not just dinosaur buddies that the GM played with, or does his bicep curls with. We are already handicapped by the French requirement. Now we want to add the additional affirmative action woman requirement into the equation? If her role is to coordinate the GM search and separate Molson from direct involvement in Hockey Operations then I wouldn't have any issue with her in that role ... the key will be who is involved in the GM search and, obviously, who is selected ... if her role would be to directly engage in hockey decisions then I could not support it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted November 8, 2021 Share Posted November 8, 2021 22 hours ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said: I believe you are absolutely correct. The Habs have to be bottom 10 AFTER the lottery draws. That's how the terms are stated. Things are certainly looking like bottom 8 right now. Question for Commandant who knows the juniors better than any of us. If the Habs finish bottom 5, who would you like to see them take in the draft? I know it's a little early and I am going to assume that Shane Wright gets picked #1 by Arizona as he would be the obvious choice. Its still a lottery. Don't assume Arizona has the top pick. That said, yes, I think Shane Wright is number 1. Ivan Miroschenko, Brad Lambert and Juraj Slafkovsky are likely also in the top five. Then you look at Matt Savoie, Logan Cooley and Connor Geekie in the top of the draft as well. Its all about forwards at the top of this draft. We might have only 1 or 2 D in the top 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neech Posted November 8, 2021 Share Posted November 8, 2021 48 minutes ago, Commandant said: Its all about forwards at the top of this draft. We might have only 1 or 2 D in the top 10 Perfect for our needs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted November 8, 2021 Share Posted November 8, 2021 1 hour ago, Neech said: Perfect for our needs. Too bad 2022 kids likely wont help much till 2025. So really perfect would be, picking the best goalie, forward, or d-man available when Patrick Roy announces who he has chosen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomh009 Posted November 8, 2021 Author Share Posted November 8, 2021 3 minutes ago, DON said: Too bad 2022 kids likely wont help much till 2025. So really perfect would be, picking the best goalie, forward, or d-man available when Patrick Roy announces who he has chosen If Roy is the GM, figure on 2035 instead, once the team has recovered from Roy's reign. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted November 8, 2021 Share Posted November 8, 2021 9 minutes ago, tomh009 said: If Roy is the GM, figure on 2035 instead, once the team has recovered from Roy's reign. God forbid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted November 8, 2021 Share Posted November 8, 2021 14 minutes ago, tomh009 said: If Roy is the GM, figure on 2035 instead, once the team has recovered from Roy's reign. Just kidding, but kinda looking like is last year for current GM (if even makes it till mid-April), so Who will be the next GM? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHT120 Posted November 8, 2021 Share Posted November 8, 2021 17 minutes ago, DON said: ... so Who will be the next GM? To avoid duplication: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfredoh2009 Posted November 8, 2021 Share Posted November 8, 2021 Wrong thread Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs Fan in Edmonton Posted November 8, 2021 Share Posted November 8, 2021 5 hours ago, Commandant said: Its still a lottery. Don't assume Arizona has the top pick. That said, yes, I think Shane Wright is number 1. Ivan Miroschenko, Brad Lambert and Juraj Slafkovsky are likely also in the top five. Then you look at Matt Savoie, Logan Cooley and Connor Geekie in the top of the draft as well. Its all about forwards at the top of this draft. We might have only 1 or 2 D in the top 10 Thanks for the input, doing some research and looking at videos. Lambert and Savoie have speed to burn, they look like sure fire top 2 centreman in the NHL. I read an article that said that Wright, Lambert and Savoie would all have been taken #1 ahead of Owen Power if they were available last year. Looks like a deep draft with a lot of high end talent. Looks like if you are going to tank then this may be the year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted November 9, 2021 Share Posted November 9, 2021 This year is much better than last year. Next year is even better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs Fan in Edmonton Posted November 9, 2021 Share Posted November 9, 2021 4 hours ago, DON said: Too bad 2022 kids likely wont help much till 2025. Is there a better alternative? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted November 9, 2021 Share Posted November 9, 2021 1 hour ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said: Is there a better alternative? Than BPA, dont think so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted November 9, 2021 Share Posted November 9, 2021 Shane Wright will help immediately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfredoh2009 Posted November 9, 2021 Share Posted November 9, 2021 6 hours ago, DON said: Too bad 2022 kids likely wont help much till 2025. 1 hour ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said: Is there a better alternative? 2017 kids? Poehling, Brooks, Primeau 2018 kids? Ylonen, Romanov, Harris, Teasdale 2019 kids? Caufield, Norlinder, Faribrother, Struble Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs Fan in Edmonton Posted November 9, 2021 Share Posted November 9, 2021 49 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said: 2017 kids? Poehling, Brooks, Primeau 2018 kids? Ylonen, Romanov, Harris, Teasdale 2019 kids? Caufield, Norlinder, Faribrother, Struble Let's hope some of those kids really develop. Totally agree about taking BPA and maybe just maybe we can win the draft lottery. Wright and Suzuki anchoring the top 2 lines for the next 10 years is nice to fantasize about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted November 9, 2021 Share Posted November 9, 2021 11 hours ago, Commandant said: Shane Wright will help immediately. Arizona will still suck with him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted November 9, 2021 Share Posted November 9, 2021 11 hours ago, alfredoh2009 said: 2017 kids? Poehling, Brooks, Primeau 2018 kids? Ylonen, Romanov, Harris, Teasdale 2019 kids? Caufield, Norlinder, Faribrother, Struble From what I gather, none of those is Grade-A except for Caufield. Romanov showed flashes last game, but thus far has not looked like he’ll become anything other than Emelin: The Sequel. I’m sure a couple of other kids will eventually find their way onto the big team. But there really does not seem to be a talent level in the system sufficient to justify serious optimism about the future. I would add that this follows a “reset” circa 2017 in which the whole point (we were led to believe) was to get a nice wave of young talent coming up through the ranks right about now. While Bergevin did manage to get us to the Finals - he deserves full credit for that master stroke - it was as a result of brilliant short-term wheeling and dealing supplementing the final gasp of an aging core, much more than young talent (Suzuki and CC notwithstanding). Bergevin’s record of drafting and development is, on the whole, abysmal. We are seeing the results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfredoh2009 Posted November 9, 2021 Share Posted November 9, 2021 (edited) From what I gather from experts. Norlinder and Harris have a ceiling of top-4 D Primeau has a ceiling of NHL starter Ylonen is definitely a mid-6 type of RW like Toffoli if he hits his ceiling that combined with the core of Suzuki, Caufield, Romanov, Anderson and Dvorak are a good mix of prospects and veterans If the Habs trade, draft or add UFAs that complement that roster , they will be a bubble team for years there is no quick fix to become a powerhouse without luck, health and a solid stream of NHL players through their system Edited November 9, 2021 by alfredoh2009 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHT120 Posted November 9, 2021 Share Posted November 9, 2021 2 hours ago, DON said: Arizona will still suck with him. Arizona would find a way to suck with Gretzky and Lemieux in their primes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomh009 Posted November 9, 2021 Author Share Posted November 9, 2021 5 hours ago, DON said: Arizona will still suck with him. And they have less than a 20% probability of getting him, even if they finish dead last. There are no guarantees with tanking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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