GHT120 Posted February 2, 2022 Share Posted February 2, 2022 42 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said: that is so backwards! 1. hire a coach to improve trade value of the players that will not e with the team in the short term... which by extension means they arr not really part of the team anymore 2. hire a coach to also develop players who do not belong in the NHL, because the organization refuses to send tose players to the NHL.. which makes #1 hard to accomplish 3. meet the media every day and explain your line-up without giving away what you are actually doing 4. keep the respect and engagement of the players that will be the core of the rebuilt team where do you find a coach that would accept that? Mark Crawford? Mike Babcock? Joel Queneville? Syvain Lefevre? Claude Julien? Bob Hartley? Patrick Roy? *** IF *** the coach they want for next season is available now then make the change now ... if the habs gauge that Richardson as interim coach, with a full search after the season, would not cause the same the media (more than the fanbase) uproar as did Cunneyworth (Habs were actually 1 game above .500 when Martin was fired and would theoretically have still been chasing a playoff spot ... this season is already down the toilet so might change the context) then make that change ... too bad they don't have someone with coaching experience in Hockey Ops to even consider having step in for the second half of the season ... if someone like Hartley (who doesn't seem to have had a legit sniff of the NHL in 6 seasons), Lefebvre (if available), etc. were willing to take a 37 game gig to try to show some NHL bonafides I would make the change ... don't know that DD was ready for the NHL gig and really deserves credit for the playoff run (impossible for fans to know either way). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted February 2, 2022 Share Posted February 2, 2022 3 minutes ago, GHT120 said: *** IF *** the coach they want for next season is available now then make the change now ... if the habs gauge that Richardson as interim coach, with a full search after the season, would not cause the same the media (more than the fanbase) uproar as did Cunneyworth (Habs were actually 1 game above .500 when Martin was fired and would theoretically have still been chasing a playoff spot ... this season is already down the toilet so might change the context) then make that change ... too bad they don't have someone with coaching experience in Hockey Ops to even consider having step in for the second half of the season ... if someone like Hartley (who doesn't seem to have had a legit sniff of the NHL in 6 seasons), Lefebvre (if available), etc. were willing to take a 37 game gig to try to show some NHL bonafides I would make the change ... don't know that DD was ready for the NHL gig and really deserves credit for the playoff run (impossible for fans to know either way). Lefebvre?? Is that a typo? He's definitely available as his contract with Columbus was terminated since he refuses to get a COVID shot. He was a lousy AHL coach so it'd make no sense to give him an NHL coaching job, even if it was short-term. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted February 2, 2022 Share Posted February 2, 2022 12 minutes ago, dlbalr said: Lefebvre?? Is that a typo? He's definitely available as his contract with Columbus was terminated since he refuses to get a COVID shot. He was a lousy AHL coach so it'd make no sense to give him an NHL coaching job, even if it was short-term. Yeah, I don't want that buffoon anywhere within 500 ft of the Bell Centre. In fact we should file a restraining order to ensure that this is the case 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted February 2, 2022 Share Posted February 2, 2022 So, as Gorton mentioned, i see DD finishing season behind the bench and dont see as really matters a hill of beans who is standing behind the bench for next 3 months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huzer Posted February 2, 2022 Share Posted February 2, 2022 I mean, the Habs are already in last. So why on earth would anyone hire Lefebvre, given his record of complete incompetence? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHT120 Posted February 2, 2022 Share Posted February 2, 2022 1 hour ago, dlbalr said: Lefebvre?? Is that a typo? He's definitely available as his contract with Columbus was terminated since he refuses to get a COVID shot. He was a lousy AHL coach so it'd make no sense to give him an NHL coaching job, even if it was short-term. Yup ... should have ignored that name ... was playing off alfredoh2009's list and didn't engage the analytical portion of brain ... mea culpa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted February 2, 2022 Share Posted February 2, 2022 2 hours ago, alfredoh2009 said: that is so backwards! 1. hire a coach to improve trade value of the players that will not e with the team in the short term... which by extension means they arr not really part of the team anymore 2. hire a coach to also develop players who do not belong in the NHL, because the organization refuses to send tose players to the NHL.. which makes #1 hard to accomplish 3. meet the media every day and explain your line-up without giving away what you are actually doing 4. keep the respect and engagement of the players that will be the core of the rebuilt team where do you find a coach that would accept that? Mark Crawford? Mike Babcock? Joel Queneville? Syvain Lefevre? Claude Julien? Bob Hartley? Patrick Roy? The team is toxic right now, they get blown out every game. They need a breath of fresh air. Let someone come in on an interim basis just to give everyone a fresh start As for #4.... its patently obvious watching the team lose by 3-4 goals every night that he does not have the respect and engagement of the current players. They have quit on him. The situation is reaching the point of being untenable. I don't see this getting worse with someone new. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfredoh2009 Posted February 2, 2022 Share Posted February 2, 2022 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Commandant said: The team is toxic right now, they get blown out every game. They need a breath of fresh air. Let someone come in on an interim basis just to give everyone a fresh start As for #4.... its patently obvious watching the team lose by 3-4 goals every night that he does not have the respect and engagement of the current players. They have quit on him. The situation is reaching the point of being untenable. the Habs have gotten peewee goaltending and some players on the team has quit after that, but not all players. the players on that video where they did not come to the bench when called by the coach are those that Hughes has mentioned he met with to ask them if they wanted to be traded not all players have quit on the coach, you have to look at the team with more granularity that all/none, individually they are reacting differently to the season, the injuries and the coaching Like you said on the other thread: 3 minutes ago, Commandant said: What happened with Kassian should not be held against Montgomery. Different people, Different situations. Edited February 2, 2022 by alfredoh2009 added post from other thread Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted February 2, 2022 Share Posted February 2, 2022 There are enough individuals who have quit that the team is losing by multiple goals every night. They don't start the game ready to play, giving up 3 or 4 goals in the first period. They aren't playing competitive hockey. Montembault gets run and they don't support him. Has the goaltending weakened lately? Yeah... but of course thats gonna happen. I said it before, their play when they were facing 50 shots a night were not sustainable and the team wasn't playing well in those games.... oh they were though, I was told. Change was coming, the team was fighting. 8 freaking wins this season, never winning two in a row, dead last in the NHL..... they have underperformed even the lowest of expectations that anyone had for them. Seriously what makes you think that the coaches are doing a good job this season. Just one thing you can actually point to thats a fact. Not an opinion of something like Ducharme is a young coach that any team would take as an assistant. No, an actual fact of something he's accomplished this season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted February 2, 2022 Share Posted February 2, 2022 I think most of us knew that with losing Weber and Price's injury and losing Danault that this team was going to take a downgrade from last season. Did anyone think that after winning 13 games in the playoffs last year, we'd have 8 wins at the all-star break? Did anyone think that this would be a contender for worst team in the league? Did anyone think that they would be a contender for worst team in franchise history? The answer to all three of those is no. There is no doubt the team is vastly underperforming. I don't even see how thats debateable. When any team vastly underperforms, the coach has to be on the hotseat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfredoh2009 Posted February 2, 2022 Share Posted February 2, 2022 5 minutes ago, Commandant said: I think most of us knew that with losing Weber and Price's injury and losing Danault that this team was going to take a downgrade from last season. Did anyone think that after winning 13 games in the playoffs last year, we'd have 8 wins at the all-star break? Did anyone think that this would be a contender for worst team in the league? Did anyone think that they would be a contender for worst team in franchise history? The answer to all three of those is no. There is no doubt the team is vastly underperforming. I don't even see how thats debateable. When any team vastly underperforms, the coach has to be on the hotseat. if you are going to answer your own questions, is there still room for a conversation? I was going to take the time to get data to provide an answer, but I will not do that now. I do not believe that you will be receptive to any argument that is not 100% aligned with yours. this makes me sad because I usually like chatting with you on the forum. what's making you so grumpy these days @Commandant ? I hope all is fine with you and family. Sincerely hope that all is fine 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted February 2, 2022 Share Posted February 2, 2022 56 minutes ago, Commandant said: There are enough individuals who have quit that the team is losing by multiple goals every night. Look at the roster, what are you thinking? This roster should be better, really? Not sure why in hell would you think that a new temp 3month coach would make a significant positive difference? And are now just keep repeating yourself about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huzer Posted February 2, 2022 Share Posted February 2, 2022 1 hour ago, alfredoh2009 said: I was going to take the time to get data to provide an answer, but I will not do that now. I do not believe that you will be receptive to any argument that is not 100% aligned with yours. I'd be quite curious to see data that supports coaching is not an issue with the team. They are nearly dead last in every single statistical category in the league. Injuries play a part in standings, but they should be at least able to string TWO wins together at some point this year. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfredoh2009 Posted February 2, 2022 Share Posted February 2, 2022 29 minutes ago, huzer said: I'd be quite curious to see data that supports coaching is not an issue with the team. They are nearly dead last in every single statistical category in the league. Injuries play a part in standings, but they should be at least able to string TWO wins together at some point this year. tell me about winning to in a row... not happy about that it will take me time to pull together, would need to go and to split stats of before/after for players and see if there are inflection point where "the team" vs "the player" would have significantly changed how engaged it is If I have the patience, I may do it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted February 2, 2022 Share Posted February 2, 2022 2 hours ago, alfredoh2009 said: if you are going to answer your own questions, is there still room for a conversation? I was going to take the time to get data to provide an answer, but I will not do that now. I do not believe that you will be receptive to any argument that is not 100% aligned with yours. this makes me sad because I usually like chatting with you on the forum. what's making you so grumpy these days @Commandant ? I hope all is fine with you and family. Sincerely hope that all is fine You can answer. I just want to know what are the positive things that Ducharme has done this season for this team? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted February 2, 2022 Share Posted February 2, 2022 1 hour ago, DON said: Look at the roster, what are you thinking? This roster should be better, really? Not sure why in hell would you think that a new temp 3month coach would make a significant positive difference? And are now just keep repeating yourself about it. Do you think this roster is worse than Arizona? Buffalo? On paper, I don't agree with that. They are massively underachieving to be in the same place with these clubs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted February 2, 2022 Share Posted February 2, 2022 57 minutes ago, huzer said: I'd be quite curious to see data that supports coaching is not an issue with the team. They are nearly dead last in every single statistical category in the league. Injuries play a part in standings, but they should be at least able to string TWO wins together at some point this year. I did the numbers earlier in this discussion.... they are 27th or worse in nearly every category... many they are 31st or 32nd. The only exception is 5v5 SV% where the goalies are actually about 22nd or 23rd. The thing is that's not a coaching stat, thats a goaltending one. And the argument has been that this and I quote "pee-wee level goaltending" is letting down the coach. The numbers don't support that. The goaltending isn't good, but its still the best part of this team, which is really damning on the coaching. Imagine how much worse they would be if the goaltending was 30th or lower like most of the stats for the rest of the roster. There is literally not one thing that I can find that indicates the coaching staff is doing a good job. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted February 2, 2022 Share Posted February 2, 2022 Isnt that a good thing? If gonna suck, might as well be horrible and get best odds at #1, for the 1st time since 1980. More important than sacking coaching staff when team is 8-36, isnt it. But, Hughes didnt say DD was staying till end of year, so maybe he sees it your way, not Gortons, and will find a lame-duck coach upgrade for last 40games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 52 minutes ago, DON said: Isnt that a good thing? If gonna suck, might as well be horrible and get best odds at #1, for the 1st time since 1980. More important than sacking coaching staff when team is 8-36, isnt it. But, Hughes didnt say DD was staying till end of year, so maybe he sees it your way, not Gortons, and will find a lame-duck coach upgrade for last 40games. I think that a horrible losing season like this does nothing for vet trade value on the rebuild and isnt the best environment for development. I think its important for the vets to set the example of the work ethic the younger kids need. And right now many vets have quit on the coach and need a fresh voice. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomh009 Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 1 hour ago, Commandant said: I think its important for the vets to set the example of the work ethic the younger kids need. Agreed. But, in spite of the coaching situation, there are vets setting good examples on the team, including Suzuki, Toffoli and Lehkonen. Of course, the kids have to choose the right vet whose example to follow ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHT120 Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 19 minutes ago, tomh009 said: Agreed. But, in spite of the coaching situation, there are vets setting good examples on the team, including Suzuki, Toffoli and Lehkonen. Of course, the kids have to choose the right vet whose example to follow ... Suzuki is not yet a vet ... and he needs development to achieve what we hope is his potential Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomh009 Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 7 minutes ago, GHT120 said: Suzuki is not yet a vet ... and he needs development to achieve what we hope is his potential Yes. But he is setting an example. Lehkonen maybe not a vet, either -- still on an RFA contract -- but also setting an example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHT120 Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 2 minutes ago, tomh009 said: Yes. But he is setting an example. Lehkonen maybe not a vet, either -- still on an RFA contract -- but also setting an example. Not certain he has set a consistent example night-in, night-out ... too early IMO to put that burden on his shoulders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 1 hour ago, GHT120 said: Suzuki is not yet a vet ... and he needs development to achieve what we hope is his potential Suzuki and Romanov are the two reasons I want this coach gone. Both are key to the future. Neither can really be sent to the AHL without pissing them off (Suzuki can't be sent down and Romanov deserves an NHL salaries with where he is at) and so both need to be on the NHL club. I don't like the environment that surrounds them right now and you can't trade 6, 8, 10 players, whatever it is We've seen in Edmonton what happens when the team just can't win and ruins a generation of top picks in Gagner, Eberle, Yakupov, and Taylor Hall. Either they don't pan out, or if they do, they have no desire to stay with the losing franchise. Then you have Buffalo and they had Eichel and Reinhart ask out cause that team is miserable and they saw no opportunity to improve. You have to give these guys some hope and right now this team culture is miserable and it shows on the ice. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 Sorry, just not as worried and dont think they are as fragile as that. Just because Oilers/Arizona/Buffalo have sucked, doesnt mean this team/franchise will follow. You could be 100% correct. Just Gorton already said DD is staying and think is a given they would be 'best' off to wait till end of season to hire a coach away from another team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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